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On February 24 2013 00:28 HTOMario wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 22:19 llIH wrote:
Mario. Can you please go through roughly how you open with mech in general? TheDwf talked about getting tanks early is too passive. And I believe so too. are there any builds that make it better in the early game transitioning into tanks etc?
I guess CC first is very common too? What matchup are you looking for?
Well since this guy hasn't responded, I'll jump in: I have real problems opening mech TvP.
I feel that 1 rax fe is not safe against early pressure, especially with MsC or stargate rushes. It's just too hard to know what P is doing and hold. I've had some success with CC first builds, but only by transitioning into heavy bio play. My first gas always goes to bio upgrades, and I delay medivacs a bit until I'm sure I can hold the front and also have defenses against oracle/MSC/blink harass.
At any rate, I don't see how I can hold off these early attacks if I spend my early gas going fact + whatever else you need as a meching player. How do you stay safe against P during those early windows? Just widow mines + pray? And is there any way to put pressure on P with a mech opening? I find that if I don't kill or at least trade with P using drops when I play bio, I just die when they eventually push out with their dreaded deathball.
So, tips for mech opening vs. P? Any help would be much appreciated!! Loved watching your streams and your mech style, but I still don't really get what's going on in your head in the opening minutes vs. P.
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On February 24 2013 02:25 Unsane wrote:
Any chance we get some games with the new servo research required for hellbats?
Sure later today.
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On February 24 2013 02:41 scojac wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 00:28 HTOMario wrote:On February 23 2013 22:19 llIH wrote:
Mario. Can you please go through roughly how you open with mech in general? TheDwf talked about getting tanks early is too passive. And I believe so too. are there any builds that make it better in the early game transitioning into tanks etc?
I guess CC first is very common too? What matchup are you looking for? Well since this guy hasn't responded, I'll jump in: I have real problems opening mech TvP. I feel that 1 rax fe is not safe against early pressure, especially with MsC or stargate rushes. It's just too hard to know what P is doing and hold. I've had some success with CC first builds, but only by transitioning into heavy bio play. My first gas always goes to bio upgrades, and I delay medivacs a bit until I'm sure I can hold the front and also have defenses against oracle/MSC/blink harass. At any rate, I don't see how I can hold off these early attacks if I spend my early gas going fact + whatever else you need as a meching player. How do you stay safe against P during those early windows? Just widow mines + pray? And is there any way to put pressure on P with a mech opening? I find that if I don't kill or at least trade with P using drops when I play bio, I just die when they eventually push out with their dreaded deathball. So, tips for mech opening vs. P? Any help would be much appreciated!! Loved watching your streams and your mech style, but I still don't really get what's going on in your head in the opening minutes vs. P.
1 gate expand is no longer safe against protoss I feel, I try to never do it. I prefer 2 rax or reactor expand.
You can use marine tank to pressure an early protoss as long as he doesn't get stargate or you have a really large amount of marines, it really depends on the game I'll try to be a little more detailed later but I'm going to go try to stream for 12 hours.
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On February 24 2013 02:41 scojac wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 00:28 HTOMario wrote:On February 23 2013 22:19 llIH wrote:
Mario. Can you please go through roughly how you open with mech in general? TheDwf talked about getting tanks early is too passive. And I believe so too. are there any builds that make it better in the early game transitioning into tanks etc?
I guess CC first is very common too? What matchup are you looking for? Well since this guy hasn't responded, I'll jump in: I have real problems opening mech TvP. I feel that 1 rax fe is not safe against early pressure, especially with MsC or stargate rushes. It's just too hard to know what P is doing and hold. I've had some success with CC first builds, but only by transitioning into heavy bio play. My first gas always goes to bio upgrades, and I delay medivacs a bit until I'm sure I can hold the front and also have defenses against oracle/MSC/blink harass. At any rate, I don't see how I can hold off these early attacks if I spend my early gas going fact + whatever else you need as a meching player. How do you stay safe against P during those early windows? Just widow mines + pray? And is there any way to put pressure on P with a mech opening? I find that if I don't kill or at least trade with P using drops when I play bio, I just die when they eventually push out with their dreaded deathball. So, tips for mech opening vs. P? Any help would be much appreciated!! Loved watching your streams and your mech style, but I still don't really get what's going on in your head in the opening minutes vs. P.
This is basically what I do...
http://drop.sc/306692
I just played alone 1 game to show you as fast as possible how it looks like. There are many tweaks to this build, like walling off your natural, getting starport/ebay somewhere in there (I often opt for quick Raven), or skipping 2nd armory/3rd cc and go for 2base 160ish push to prevent critical mass of air and so on..
But basically this is working for me. 2wm at 6 min mark are key to defend Oracle. I've never seen proxy Oracle earlier then at this. 3 marines are enough to fight off MsC. Hellion is there for scouting purposes, just check natural, see proxy tech/pylons, aggresion comming? Bring wm back to defend front, etc.. You can also go for more mines and produce Hellbats once your Armory finishes, those are great for keeping you alive early game.
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On February 24 2013 03:30 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 02:41 scojac wrote:On February 24 2013 00:28 HTOMario wrote:On February 23 2013 22:19 llIH wrote:
Mario. Can you please go through roughly how you open with mech in general? TheDwf talked about getting tanks early is too passive. And I believe so too. are there any builds that make it better in the early game transitioning into tanks etc?
I guess CC first is very common too? What matchup are you looking for? Well since this guy hasn't responded, I'll jump in: I have real problems opening mech TvP. I feel that 1 rax fe is not safe against early pressure, especially with MsC or stargate rushes. It's just too hard to know what P is doing and hold. I've had some success with CC first builds, but only by transitioning into heavy bio play. My first gas always goes to bio upgrades, and I delay medivacs a bit until I'm sure I can hold the front and also have defenses against oracle/MSC/blink harass. At any rate, I don't see how I can hold off these early attacks if I spend my early gas going fact + whatever else you need as a meching player. How do you stay safe against P during those early windows? Just widow mines + pray? And is there any way to put pressure on P with a mech opening? I find that if I don't kill or at least trade with P using drops when I play bio, I just die when they eventually push out with their dreaded deathball. So, tips for mech opening vs. P? Any help would be much appreciated!! Loved watching your streams and your mech style, but I still don't really get what's going on in your head in the opening minutes vs. P. This is basically what I do... http://drop.sc/306692I just played alone 1 game to show you as fast as possible how it looks like. There are many tweaks to this build, like walling off your natural, getting starport/ebay somewhere in there (I often opt for quick Raven), or skipping 2nd armory/3rd cc and go for 2base 160ish push to prevent critical mass of air and so on.. But basically this is working for me. 2wm at 6 min mark are key to defend Oracle. I've never seen proxy Oracle earlier then at this. 3 marines are enough to fight off MsC. Hellion is there for scouting purposes, just check natural, see proxy tech/pylons, aggresion comming? Bring wm back to defend front, etc.. You can also go for more mines and produce Hellbats once your Armory finishes, those are great for keeping you alive early game.
How do you know if its stargate pressure vs 3 gate 1 stargate voidray allin or 4 gate? I can't tell if the protoss is going oracle pressure or allin builds
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On February 24 2013 04:11 BigAsia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 03:30 Everlong wrote:On February 24 2013 02:41 scojac wrote:On February 24 2013 00:28 HTOMario wrote:On February 23 2013 22:19 llIH wrote:
Mario. Can you please go through roughly how you open with mech in general? TheDwf talked about getting tanks early is too passive. And I believe so too. are there any builds that make it better in the early game transitioning into tanks etc?
I guess CC first is very common too? What matchup are you looking for? Well since this guy hasn't responded, I'll jump in: I have real problems opening mech TvP. I feel that 1 rax fe is not safe against early pressure, especially with MsC or stargate rushes. It's just too hard to know what P is doing and hold. I've had some success with CC first builds, but only by transitioning into heavy bio play. My first gas always goes to bio upgrades, and I delay medivacs a bit until I'm sure I can hold the front and also have defenses against oracle/MSC/blink harass. At any rate, I don't see how I can hold off these early attacks if I spend my early gas going fact + whatever else you need as a meching player. How do you stay safe against P during those early windows? Just widow mines + pray? And is there any way to put pressure on P with a mech opening? I find that if I don't kill or at least trade with P using drops when I play bio, I just die when they eventually push out with their dreaded deathball. So, tips for mech opening vs. P? Any help would be much appreciated!! Loved watching your streams and your mech style, but I still don't really get what's going on in your head in the opening minutes vs. P. This is basically what I do... http://drop.sc/306692I just played alone 1 game to show you as fast as possible how it looks like. There are many tweaks to this build, like walling off your natural, getting starport/ebay somewhere in there (I often opt for quick Raven), or skipping 2nd armory/3rd cc and go for 2base 160ish push to prevent critical mass of air and so on.. But basically this is working for me. 2wm at 6 min mark are key to defend Oracle. I've never seen proxy Oracle earlier then at this. 3 marines are enough to fight off MsC. Hellion is there for scouting purposes, just check natural, see proxy tech/pylons, aggresion comming? Bring wm back to defend front, etc.. You can also go for more mines and produce Hellbats once your Armory finishes, those are great for keeping you alive early game. How do you know if its stargate pressure vs 3 gate 1 stargate voidray allin or 4 gate? I can't tell if the protoss is going oracle pressure or allin builds
Well, it is nearly impossible to tell. I scout his natural for expo with SCV, then with Hellion and if I don't see Nexus, I'll scout for hidden tech/pylons and prepare accordingly. You can't take your natural if there is no Nexus, it's just impossible to hold everything he might be doing. But up your ramp I'm able to hold mostly anything. It's good idea to go for starport instead of 2nd factory and either quick Raven, or Viking. This way, you can deal with Voidray. You still probably need well placed Widow Mines + Bunker.
Also, you can just poke out of your base around 6-7 min mark for gateway units/pylons and you know what is comming.
But basically with mines/tanks, few marines, bunker and maybe Viking you are able to hold anything, just take your time to grab your natural.
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On February 24 2013 00:28 HTOMario wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 22:19 llIH wrote:
Mario. Can you please go through roughly how you open with mech in general? TheDwf talked about getting tanks early is too passive. And I believe so too. are there any builds that make it better in the early game transitioning into tanks etc?
I guess CC first is very common too? What matchup are you looking for?
Mostly PvZ and PvP. But PvP would be awesome too.
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On February 24 2013 04:44 llIH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 00:28 HTOMario wrote:On February 23 2013 22:19 llIH wrote:
Mario. Can you please go through roughly how you open with mech in general? TheDwf talked about getting tanks early is too passive. And I believe so too. are there any builds that make it better in the early game transitioning into tanks etc?
I guess CC first is very common too? What matchup are you looking for? Mostly PvZ and PvP. But PvP would be awesome too.
Did you make a mistake, or are you trolling us all? PvZ and PvP in a Terran replay pack thread?
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Having some power outages should be good soon.
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EPT
