Sorry in advance for my spelling and grammar I'm on my phone, but I have seen a lot of protoss players going for the old cruncher build and I have had a fairly tough time stopping it. Corruptors do nothing thanks to voidrays now and other than that we have nothing else really to stop it unless you go hydra and are able to pull all the collosus with vipers. Are mutas the way to go in this or does anyone else have a better solution to it? Also for reference I was a masters player in WOL

BigAsia

Canada451 Posts

February 09 2013 03:57 GMT

I usually go viper + roach + hydra vs and type of collosus build. Just abduct and snipe the collosus

Wildmoon

Thailand4189 Posts

February 09 2013 03:58 GMT

You already answered it yourself that hydras/vipers is the answer and I agree with you.....

mzadery

Canada7 Posts

February 09 2013 04:06 GMT

I always find though I cant vipers in time for their push and I have nothing else between that time and vipers

mGGNoRe

Australia124 Posts

February 09 2013 04:35 GMT

I find I agree with the roach/hydra sentiment here. I like to max out similar to stephano around 11min with roach/hydra and pressure the protoss third as I rush up to hive and get vipers. It works very well for me.

LF[Media]

United States58 Posts

February 09 2013 08:10 GMT

Void Rays with weapon upgrades beat Roach/Hydra lol (at least they do better than it feels like they should in my experience) it's ridiculous how well 3/3 Void Rays can do against even pretty good high masters zergs

LOLItsRyann

England551 Posts

February 09 2013 09:15 GMT

On February 09 2013 13:35 mGGNoRe wrote:
I find I agree with the roach/hydra sentiment here. I like to max out similar to stephano around 11min with roach/hydra and pressure the protoss third as I rush up to hive and get vipers. It works very well for me.

Stephano only just got maxed on pure Roach, Ling at 11 min when everything was PERFECT. Do you really have a build that can max you out with Roach, HYDRA at 11 min, not including upgrades of course. That sounds beastly.

LF[Media]

United States58 Posts

February 09 2013 09:22 GMT

I'm pretty sure it's not possible to max out on Roach/Hydra by the 11 minute mark, but then again I don't play Zerg. Maybe if by Roach/Hydra you mean 100 drones, 1 Hydra and the rest Roaches ^^

Deleted User 261926

960 Posts

February 09 2013 10:44 GMT

On February 09 2013 18:22 LF[Media] wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's not possible to max out on Roach/Hydra by the 11 minute mark, but then again I don't play Zerg. Maybe if by Roach/Hydra you mean 100 drones, 1 Hydra and the rest Roaches ^^

Yep, it's impossible.

mzadery

Canada7 Posts

February 09 2013 10:48 GMT

#10

Ya I feel like I have the weaker the army the longer the game goes that harder it is too beat the composition of it but you need the vipers for the colossus. I would guess you need around 13-15 mins too get the build out without any harrasment and tech with full upgrades.

thezanursic

5497 Posts

February 09 2013 11:05 GMT

#11

On February 09 2013 19:44 Karpfen wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yep, it's impossible.

You can go 3 hatch before pool , mass drones early for eco and prey that the P doesn't attck you, Hahahaha.

ximae

181 Posts

February 09 2013 12:43 GMT

#12

thx guys!

just checked as i saw this post and ive got hots enabled too!

MapleLeafSirup

Germany950 Posts

February 09 2013 17:26 GMT

#13

It is beatable (atm) but that's not the point. Protosses tend to go for death-ball type of strategies again and that is what Blizzard wanted to avoid in the first place. In my eyes the Void-Ray is a useless unit and should be compensated with some buff for midgame-harassment possibilities. That weakens the protoss deathball and makes up for more interesting games.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

February 09 2013 17:48 GMT

#14

Voidrays got weaker(easier to use though), Hydras got also a bit noob friendly, so compared to WoL it is slightly easier to beat even without the Infestor (well the overpowered version of the Infestor shut the Protoss down completely). But hydra/roach is pretty supply inefficient, so Zergs that are used to turtle up to 200 supply will need some time to adjust. As you pretty much have to do what the Toss does in Wings, get a bank and try to kill the production.

I think its more reasonable that the Zerg has to play this way, while the Protoss has the unstoppable deathball and not the other way round.

I also enjoy Laser wars in ZvP lategame. Colossus vs Colossus, the Zerg Colossus melt all the Toss AoE and you run over the air with Hydras. Curious if the pull + neural combination will see some change or if it works in a fair way. But right now I normally manage to have the higher Colossus count in ZvP.

Novacute

Australia313 Posts

February 09 2013 18:21 GMT

#15

On February 09 2013 12:57 BigAsia wrote:
I usually go viper + roach + hydra vs and type of collosus build. Just abduct and snipe the collosus

Works well, it usually becomes a micro battle of who can abduct/feedback first, which is a great dynamic we already see in TvP.

StaraCroft

Austria292 Posts

February 09 2013 19:15 GMT

#16

what I don't see nearly enough at the moment is zergs backing off when the void rays get charged - when they try to fight it with infestor/corruptor.
I also think that hydra/viper has great potential, but it's definitely hard to control. The thing I struggle the most against when going for the voidray/colossos death ball is zergs containing me on 3base and starving me out. On maps like CK where you can get a huge concave on my 4th this seems very viable.
This would be a great opportunity to test the resume replay feature. If some diamond-master zerg wants to practice some zvp starting from a double stargate opening, pm me!

InfCereal

Canada1759 Posts

February 09 2013 19:32 GMT

#17

I've been attacking with a 2 base contain. Nydus/Swarm host/Queen. After I've got enough units to defend that position, I take a third, fourth, drone up and go for a ling/ultra composition.

If you keep them on 2/3 bases, you can prevent them from massing any respectable deathball, and then roll them over if they ever break the contain.

So far I've had this work against air builds and robo. Both FFE and gateway openings. I believe the protoss should be aiming for a stalker/collo ball to break out of the contain, so coming in with ultras should put you in a good spot.

FlyingBeer

United States262 Posts

February 09 2013 19:46 GMT

#18

The modern Zerg deathball is roughly mainly hydras, secondarily infestors, a few lurkers, and a few ultras. The Zerg deathball isn't as strong, relatively speaking, as Broodlord/Infestor in WoL, but the Protoss will have fewer gateways which presents more openings for overlord drops and nydus canal harassment. Check out the game between Kyo and TLO in Kyo's replay pack(www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396717). It's a 58 minute game, and both players are playing what I think is as close as we have to standard play right now with no significant advantages by either player until the very end when TLO simply runs out of money.

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