On December 20 2012 15:22 larse wrote: To those how say the buffed fungal is fine. Here is the range-10 fungal in action.
lol
Well, at least you can tell it's obvious that they really thought this one through /sarcastiball
It is indeed as expected. Fungal is very strong, I think everyone agrees on that.
Next patch nerf how much? 8? ... Any suggestions?
I think they should make fungal a spell that can be cast only from melee range and it should result in a light boost in health to the affected units, although it will temporarily "slow" them for 4 seconds while the effects of the spell wear off. The world will applaud this change.
Maybe most of you are masters or whatever but what some of you aren't understanding from my last comment is that at the lower leagues ppl don't even use builds. They will go one base mass hellions for no reason at all. Or go mass roaches without scouting. Patches don't affect these kinds of players. They don't apply. I got to high Platinum by 4-gating all day. It wasn't until I ran into players that could scout and stop a 4 gate play that I had to start considering builds and maybe balance. But even now that I am a better player and I have to scout and plan by builds, I still don't feel that the patches affect me. Just how it is.
On December 20 2012 10:22 ultratorr wrote: They REALLY need to get rid of micro-limiting abilities like fungal, force field, time warp, etc. UNLESS there is a way for the opposing player to counteract them, and casting the ability requires some thought and finesse.
Ideas to counteract make micro-limiting spells: - Slow fungal projectile to make it extremely dodgeable (since 1 fungal hit = 10 fungals hit) - Medivac "restoration" unroots fungaled units - Medivac with speed boost lifts units over force fields / roach burrow movement under ff (in hots this is actually better than in wol) - Medivac with speed boost lifts units to get out of time warp (and what about Mech?)
Ideas to make micro-limiting spells require thought and finesse - channeled ff (many variations here, eg. ff requiring energy in the same way as cloak: X to activate, while draining Y/sec) - time warp and fungal slow affect friendly units (I don't know why most Z and P spells don't affect friendly units)
EDIT: - Similar things can be said for "hard counters". Hard counters are not interesting because hard countering your opponent does not require finesse (though requires thought, or maybe more luck).
In general, the game should involve BOTH players trying to outplay each other, not whether one player plays well enough. Micro-limiting spells are making the game a one-player game.
Wait your telling me storm doesn't effect protoss units? if this is true that is fucking stupid. Tanks give splash.. to friendlies.
Terran has the advantage of a arsenal of ranges units being hit by your own tank splash is almost negligible if your spread out and you micro like your supposed to .
Storm does hurt your own units. It's hilarious how often a protoss goes to storm a bio army that is kiting away, and winds up getting his own zealots for 40 damage each as they charge at the bio.
It's just not as obvious because protoss units have more health so they don't instantly go into the orange after 1 tick of a storm.
Then they should quit 1a'ing so their own things don't get stormed .
It's not like they have much of a choice, zealots are melee units that aren't fast enough to get a surround. Terrans run away and kite, so you have to keep chasing or give up the engagement entirely. There's not much micro to be done with them, and if you turn them around and run away, they just get in the way of your other units and make your colossi more vulnerable.
Seriously, just make it back to range 9, not a projectile, and change it to a 50% or even 75% slow and call it a fucking day. That's all that needs to be done to fungal, make it not freeze units -_-
On December 21 2012 09:47 Interstellar wrote: Maybe most of you are masters or whatever but what some of you aren't understanding from my last comment is that at the lower leagues ppl don't even use builds. They will go one base mass hellions for no reason at all. Or go mass roaches without scouting. Patches don't affect these kinds of players. They don't apply. I got to high Platinum by 4-gating all day. It wasn't until I ran into players that could scout and stop a 4 gate play that I had to start considering builds and maybe balance. But even now that I am a better player and I have to scout and plan by builds, I still don't feel that the patches affect me. Just how it is.
I can get to diamond by 2 gating and transitioning into mass zealot every single game. I can't get to diamond by playing "standard" Terran. That's what personifies balance at lower levels to me, as well as others. You push the limits of your own skills, and are beaten by people putting minimal thought and effort into their own play. You plan and then are forced to execute, while your opponent follows a flowchart he's taped to his monitor. At this point, people like you seem to feel content playing a game like LoL instead of SC2.
Seriously, just make it back to range 9, not a projectile, and change it to a 50% or even 75% slow and call it a fucking day. That's all that needs to be done to fungal, make it not freeze units -_-
Don't see how anything in that video is remotely related to 10-range Fungals. The vikings were so far forward that 7 or 8 range would have had the same effect.
I definitely think it was a mistake to buff the range and the speed of the projectile at the same time. Still, that's what a beta is for I guess (TEST SOME MORE CARRIER BUFFS PLEASE)
IMO they can revert back to 8 range but with 15 speed projectile.
Seriously, just make it back to range 9, not a projectile, and change it to a 50% or even 75% slow and call it a fucking day. That's all that needs to be done to fungal, make it not freeze units -_-
Wow this is really sick. The speed is so high that you basically have only a small chance of missing a few units. And the + 1 range is pretty big in terms of infestors not having to walk into siege range.
The range buff is ridiculous. Fungal needs to be totally changed. This is just so bad. Really. If fungal stays that way I'll seriously have to think about buying HotS. The sheer idiocy of changing it like this is incredible.
On December 21 2012 11:43 RavenLoud wrote: I definitely think it was a mistake to buff the range and the speed of the projectile at the same time. Still, that's what a beta is for I guess (TEST SOME MORE CARRIER BUFFS PLEASE)
IMO they can revert back to 8 range but with 15 speed projectile.
eh? carrier really strong right now lol atleast vs mech anyways. They really should consider making interceptor immune to fungal too but beside that their not too bad. Being able to micro carriers already makes them cost efficient vs viking on par upgrades. Yes, they counter viking I am serious lol
I think DB can only win with zerg if he uses long range instant rooting fungals.. No we all have to suffer :'( Just make it an initial root that wears off over the duration of the spell.. Ie. fungalled units slowly regain their movement over time. Then zerg would need to cast more often to completely root for a long duration..
The problem with final is not balance, it's with how it functions. It takes no skill to chain-fungal, it's annoying to play against because you can't counter chain-fungal without fully engaging and finally it's so boring to watch.
On December 21 2012 11:43 RavenLoud wrote: I definitely think it was a mistake to buff the range and the speed of the projectile at the same time. Still, that's what a beta is for I guess (TEST SOME MORE CARRIER BUFFS PLEASE)
IMO they can revert back to 8 range but with 15 speed projectile.
eh? carrier really strong right now lol atleast vs mech anyways. They really should consider making interceptor immune to fungal too but beside that their not too bad. Being able to micro carriers already makes them cost efficient vs viking on par upgrades. Yes, they counter viking I am serious lol
Minus 20 seconds on build time would be a nice experiment.
Also not sure about how I feel with tempests absolutely owning carriers with their 15 range (impossible to micro against) 80 damage anti-air against massive. They already beat carriers 1v1 when they only did 60 damage. It still feels like Blizzard doesn't want carriers but are forced by the community to put them...
Seriously, just make it back to range 9, not a projectile, and change it to a 50% or even 75% slow and call it a fucking day. That's all that needs to be done to fungal, make it not freeze units -_-
The sheer idiocy of this change is beyond comprehension. How could they all agree to try this? Even the programmers must have been scratching their heads when they implemented the patch. Even on PAPER it looks dumb. Then you watch this video and it is just absurdly wrong.
I think the whole community agrees on the following: Fungal needs to be a 50% slow Snipe nerf was too much (and the +vs psionic was dumb too, why have 2 abilities made to counter casters?) Ravens, Carriers and BCs suck, first of alll because they take too long to build Colossus is boring
SC2 could have been like Brood War, but poor design made it nowhere near it. HOTS could fix things, but until now they have failed to make the correct moves.
I'm still boycotting WOL while it remains in this state, and I won't buy HOTS in this state.
well it is beta and blizzard is testing tons of things, fungal will probably be nerfed in future patches but they just wanted to test out the projectile in this patch and how the dynamic of getting a easy close range fungal or a decent long rang fungal. We will see in the next couple weeks, everyone is just jumping to conclusion like always.
I think the whole community agrees on the following: Fungal needs to be a 50% slow Snipe nerf was too much (and the +vs psionic was dumb too, why have 2 abilities made to counter casters?) Ravens, Carriers and BCs suck, first of alll because they take too long to build Colossus is boring
I agree - but I think fungal should be 2 spells - fungal growth that is DOT spell affecting an area like storm and another spell that roots or slows opponents units to help with surrounds on things like stimmed marines. Or the spells can work in conjunction but requires more energy and micro.
Right now fungal is 100% broken and its sickening.
On December 21 2012 11:43 RavenLoud wrote: I definitely think it was a mistake to buff the range and the speed of the projectile at the same time. Still, that's what a beta is for I guess (TEST SOME MORE CARRIER BUFFS PLEASE)
IMO they can revert back to 8 range but with 15 speed projectile.
eh? carrier really strong right now lol atleast vs mech anyways. They really should consider making interceptor immune to fungal too but beside that their not too bad. Being able to micro carriers already makes them cost efficient vs viking on par upgrades. Yes, they counter viking I am serious lol
U know what i cannot understand why Blizzard does not make interceptors like broodlings. I mean you can kill as many broodlings as you want the broodlords will keep throwing them at you, so you keep wasting your attacks until your life is slowly drained to 0... (gosh i hate that feeling so much!!)
So how about a carrier can keep a certain max amount of interceptors on the field, and if fungals or anything else kill them they can instant respawn them, only up until that certain amount again. This will force people to ATTACK THE CARRIER, just like versus broodlords we always need to KILL THE GGLORDS NOT THE GGLINGS
Seriously i don't understand why blizzard can be so unfair. Bear in mind i am not biased at all here, I am a terran
AOE Forgotten Empires looks pretty sweet, and it comes out this month. Other then that no T_T. Blizzards just lucky SC has not RTS competition. AOE Online is utter trash.
On December 21 2012 12:56 EleanorRIgby wrote: well it is beta and blizzard is testing tons of things, fungal will probably be nerfed in future patches but they just wanted to test out the projectile in this patch and how the dynamic of getting a easy close range fungal or a decent long rang fungal. We will see in the next couple weeks, everyone is just jumping to conclusion like always.
I genuinely think DB and DK are actually pretty smart, but I think their are people on their balance team that are pretty stupid. Remember that DK and DB are just faces, there are alot of people on the team.
EPT
