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On December 19 2012 07:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:25 Hider wrote:On December 19 2012 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On December 19 2012 07:14 Adonminus wrote:On December 19 2012 07:08 Crawdad wrote:
So...
How easy was it to dodge the projectile before? It was pretty much as easy to hit as an emp which is also projectile, and didn't influence chain fungaling at all. I don't think you actually played the game with it. It was half the speed of EMP and was impossible to hit on mutas and Phoenix. Seriously, I don't think half the people complaining about the buffs saw how much of a joke fungal became after the nerf, and are mentally adding these buffs to WoL fungal. A joke? Maybe. But its also possible that it just required some more practice. But so what if it was way to hard to use. Why would be so that that fungal growth was underpowered and almsot useless. Nobody (except patch zergs) would mind it. Its a terrible bad designed spell which creates boring game. On the other hand Blizzard has promised to make mech tvp viable. This has been a useless strategy for 2+ years and we have waited and waited. Infestors is now a (potentital) useless unit for 1 week, and apparently Blizzard don't like that and decides to buff it again. Wtf is up with their priorities; Ignore the infestor for now and focus on the real issues. It's likely that Mech TvP is something they've been continually working on. You have to admit completely overhauling a playstyle takes a bit more involved and long term effort than a band aid fix like this infestor one. I'm betting when we finally see mech changes, there will be a lot of them, and they won't just be simple number tweaks.
I agree with you, and i think everybody just cant wait for this patch to come x)
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On December 19 2012 06:10 BeyondCtrL wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7415462759Show nested quote +Hey everyone,
We will be bringing the beta down at 2:00 p.m. PST this afternoon to make the balance changes listed below. Thanks again for all the great feedback you've provided while testing Heart of the Swarm. We hope to see you testing these changes and sharing your input soon!
Terran
Medivac
The Caduceus Reactor upgrade now requires a Fusion Core before research can begin.
Widow Mine
Sentinel Missiles
Primary target damage reduced from 160 to 125.
Protoss
Stalker
Blink
Research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.
Zerg
Infestor
Fungal Growth
Range increased from 8 to 10.
Missile speed increased from 10 to 15.
Looks like Blizzard DOESNT kno what they are doing.....
dont nerf fungal realize zerg are in a little trouble vs t then give it a buff bigger than what they were before...buff ultras or banes or somethin.. be creative, not stupid, you still have 3 months...for now:
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...WELCOME BACK INFESTORCRAFT!!!!!
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On December 19 2012 07:28 TigerKarl wrote:
Usual stuff here, Blizzard trying something 3 months before release and some people hyperventilating over it.
Exactly.
People; for the 100th time.
It's Blizzard's strategy to overbuff stuff to see what happens.
Please, bear that in mind.
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On December 19 2012 07:29 NomaKasd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:16 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:12 NomaKasd wrote:
I like half the changes as a Zerg player. I agree that the fungal growth needed a little buff because it was impossible to catch mutas in ZvZ unless you were playing the game like counter strike and trying to go for the headshot like all the way from dust 2 A into long A pit with a glock. You have to have pure clairvoyance to catch mutas with infestors. I think they should of ONLY increased the range to give the chance to catch mutas BUT also give the marines still the chance to split before fungal catches them but time will tell how this missile speed will affect the game, it might of been slightly slow.
The widow mines I agree were overpowered, especially marine/widow all in was difficult to defend and still put you behind or hellion/banshee/widow to deny your third for ages.
The blink nerf i don't understand that one??????????? did some protoss annoy blizzard or something recently, just say your sorry. Blink + MsC was ruining PvP. I think with this extra research time you can have an immortal out now by the time the rush hits or something. What's is MsC? I'll take your word for it but what's MsC?
mothership core, if I had to guess
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What the heck Blizzard... that fungal buff is way too soon and even then it's too much.
Instead of worrying about the infestor, how about you spend time fixing mech.
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Strongly disagree with the fungal changes. Fungal growth does not need to outrange collossi and vikings. I really don't see any realistic justification for this change.
Medivac buff requiring a fusion core is actually not all that bad. It'll encourage more Battlecruiser play.
Not sure about the blink and widow mine changes, but it doesn't seem like too huge of a deal.
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On December 19 2012 07:29 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:27 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:22 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:16 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:10 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:07 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:03 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:02 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:00 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 06:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:
[quote]
Good for you... I'm saying why this happened and giving reasons why you shouldn't be freaking out about the change, unless you're just mad about how the spell works and not about the balance of it. I have never been happy about the spell works, and every time I see Blizzard is changing fungal, I get let down when it's not a change to the freeze. Every other change is 100% pointless until that is addressed. I don't even really know what to say to this... so infestors are completely imbalanced in your eyes until fungal isn't a freeze? lol The freezing of units is BY FAR the biggest issue, and the biggest complaint about fungal. Have you been living under a rock for the past 6+ months? You didn't answer the question, freeze isn't necessarily a balance issue, but more a spectator issue. I'm not saying I agree with the mechanic, hell, I don't even like infestors, but the idea that the freeze mechanic makes them imbalanced is wrong. Also, with infested terrans being so weak I'm really not sure that infestors will be very good, in zvp anyways. The fungal rooted the army, but in most scenarios in high level games, infested terrans were used just as heavily as fungal in battles. edit: wow i fucked up the formatting of this post pretty badly lol Freezing is very much a balance issue, are you high? fixed the formatting TY. I'd say the range, damage numbers, and the projectile speed are the balance modifiers. And I did write it wrong, I meant the freeze mechanic isn't what was imbalanced about infestors in the first place, it was the fact that it was so hard to avoid while doing damage, while upgraded infested terrans were killing your units. Now infested terrans melt in a battle and all you need are other units that aren't caught in the fungal to snipe remaining infestors. It will remain to be seen whether that's easy to do or not, but all this QQ is unwarranted for the time being. Freeze is an integral part of how the spell works, it's very much a part of its balance. Fungal should be some sort of slow and not a freeze. The damage and range 9 is fine, especially since at range 9 you can have some good dancing between infestor/ghost/HT. The only problem I have ever had with fungal was its freeze, it makes a perfectly reasonable spell completely imbalanced. Infested Terrans should never have been used in a straight up battle, anyway. It was laughable that they were as effective as they were, you could wipe out high value armies with one or two fungals and a billion spawned Infested Terrans. You should never have been able to just mass infestors and then spawn a free army anywhere. The IT change was to encourage Infestors to be a SUPPORT unit, and not your main damn unit. IT still have good uses, but they are not the backbone of the army anymore. Without infested terrans it DOES become a support unit! That's the whole point, unless your whole army is getting caught in the fungals then you should be able to snipe remaining infestors. And if your whole army IS getting caught in fungals then you're not splitting your army enough obviously. I don't even...what? Come back when you aren't high/drunk.
What don't you understand? Throwing useless insults adds nothing to your argument.
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On December 19 2012 07:21 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 06:55 MangoMountain wrote:On December 19 2012 06:48 Vega62a wrote:
Nerfing the medivac made sense - it was way too easy to get the upgrade on 2-3 bases and then your army was pretty well unstoppable.
But the infestor buff?
...Really, Blizzard? You want to make the infestor BETTER in ZvT? Were you feeling like the matchup was just too easy for Terran? Infestors were extremely trashy after fungal became a projectile, it was a useless unit. I know that armchair game designers think fungal is bad for the game or whatever, but whatever you think of that, nerfing a unit to uselessness isn't the way to go. We've already had enough of that in wol Yes, because we were able to deduce this after 1.5 weeks of playtesting where barely any Zergs even practiced using the new infestor -_-
Shhh... don't bring up the fact that for random reasons Blizzard either waits forever to change something, or doesn't wait at all, for any real substantial testing, to change something. This just shows Blizzard is just rolling dice. They'll roll decently or badly once in a while, but it's all part of the RNG.
If this remains as it is then one year from now Zergs will be playing with the exact same composition and strategy (turtle behind spines to GGlords and Infestor) as we see in WoL except with 1-3 Vipers in the mix so that the Zerg army won't even lose 1 supply worth of units in a late game engagement.
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On December 19 2012 07:27 xPabt wrote:
Blizzard has officially given up on making terran a viable to play race.
Before this patch, I would have called Terran the best race in HotS.
Now it's a toss-up between Terran and Zerg.
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All seems nice, except for the Fungal change.
On December 19 2012 06:10 BeyondCtrL wrote:
Fungal Growth
Range increased from 8 to 10.
Missile speed increased from 10 to 15.
At speed 15, won't this be almost exactly like the old WoL infestor, but with higher range?
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What the fuck are they doing?
First nerf fungal because its imba, so everyone was kinda happy and know make it even stronger.... o_O
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so now.....infestors can chain fungal every single protoss ground unit out of range.....lol
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On December 19 2012 07:29 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:27 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:22 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:16 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:10 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:07 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:03 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:02 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:00 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 06:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:
[quote]
Good for you... I'm saying why this happened and giving reasons why you shouldn't be freaking out about the change, unless you're just mad about how the spell works and not about the balance of it. I have never been happy about the spell works, and every time I see Blizzard is changing fungal, I get let down when it's not a change to the freeze. Every other change is 100% pointless until that is addressed. I don't even really know what to say to this... so infestors are completely imbalanced in your eyes until fungal isn't a freeze? lol The freezing of units is BY FAR the biggest issue, and the biggest complaint about fungal. Have you been living under a rock for the past 6+ months? You didn't answer the question, freeze isn't necessarily a balance issue, but more a spectator issue. I'm not saying I agree with the mechanic, hell, I don't even like infestors, but the idea that the freeze mechanic makes them imbalanced is wrong. Also, with infested terrans being so weak I'm really not sure that infestors will be very good, in zvp anyways. The fungal rooted the army, but in most scenarios in high level games, infested terrans were used just as heavily as fungal in battles. edit: wow i fucked up the formatting of this post pretty badly lol Freezing is very much a balance issue, are you high? fixed the formatting TY. I'd say the range, damage numbers, and the projectile speed are the balance modifiers. And I did write it wrong, I meant the freeze mechanic isn't what was imbalanced about infestors in the first place, it was the fact that it was so hard to avoid while doing damage, while upgraded infested terrans were killing your units. Now infested terrans melt in a battle and all you need are other units that aren't caught in the fungal to snipe remaining infestors. It will remain to be seen whether that's easy to do or not, but all this QQ is unwarranted for the time being. Freeze is an integral part of how the spell works, it's very much a part of its balance. Fungal should be some sort of slow and not a freeze. The damage and range 9 is fine, especially since at range 9 you can have some good dancing between infestor/ghost/HT. The only problem I have ever had with fungal was its freeze, it makes a perfectly reasonable spell completely imbalanced. Infested Terrans should never have been used in a straight up battle, anyway. It was laughable that they were as effective as they were, you could wipe out high value armies with one or two fungals and a billion spawned Infested Terrans. You should never have been able to just mass infestors and then spawn a free army anywhere. The IT change was to encourage Infestors to be a SUPPORT unit, and not your main damn unit. IT still have good uses, but they are not the backbone of the army anymore. Without infested terrans it DOES become a support unit! That's the whole point, unless your whole army is getting caught in the fungals then you should be able to snipe remaining infestors. And if your whole army IS getting caught in fungals then you're not splitting your army enough obviously. I don't even...what? Come back when you aren't high/drunk.
This whole conversation is hilarious
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On December 19 2012 07:29 AdrianHealey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:28 TigerKarl wrote:
Usual stuff here, Blizzard trying something 3 months before release and some people hyperventilating over it. Exactly. People; for the 100th time. It's Blizzard's strategy to overbuff stuff to see what happens. Please, bear that in mind.
It is true that Blizzard will buff certain units very much, but this is always because they are underutilized and Blizzard wants to see what happens if people start using them. Such as Ravens. I may be wrong on this, but i am fairly sure that Blizzard has a pretty neat amount of data on Infestor use in the later stages of WoL.
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Chain Fungle from 10 range, progress lol
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Wait are the servers even active? Has anyone played with the new patch or is everyone just freaking out because some of the numbers of fungle got larger?
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On December 19 2012 07:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Chain Fungle from 10 range, progress lol
Slowing fungle with high range projectile would be the best way to design it obviously  Lets hope blizzard try a slowing fungle next patch !
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On December 19 2012 07:29 AdrianHealey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:28 TigerKarl wrote:
Usual stuff here, Blizzard trying something 3 months before release and some people hyperventilating over it. Exactly. People; for the 100th time. It's Blizzard's strategy to overbuff stuff to see what happens. Please, bear that in mind.
What happens is you get a 6 month shitstorm, then blizzard finally nerfs it again, only to boost it in the beta 2 weeks later. And repeat that.
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On December 19 2012 07:35 Plansix wrote:
Wait are the servers even active? Has anyone played with the new patch or is everyone just freaking out because some of the numbers of fungle got larger?
Nobody's played it yet.
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EPT
