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On December 19 2012 07:22 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:21 HollowLord wrote:On December 19 2012 07:20 kollin wrote:On December 19 2012 07:19 Insoleet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:16 Prog455 wrote:On December 19 2012 07:13 Insoleet wrote:
Guys wake up. 10 range means you actually see the projectile coming from a longer distance ! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES ITS SO OBVIOUS >_<
So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING
And if the infestor comes too close... it just dies to tanks and colossi.
Its actually the best way to nerf the infestor if they dont want to remove the root.
Just because Infestors CAN use Fungal from 10 range does not mean they do it every time. But if they dont, if they want to be more precise, they need to come closer. And die to tanks/colossi. As in current WoL state, where infestors can't do anything but die to colossi/tanks (against a decent player) There will be decision making involved, and positionnal war. And it's cool, obviously. No it's not. The infestor is the most horrendously badly designed unit in the game, and literally nobody likes it, wol or hots state. I like it..... Ok, nobody important in Starcraft 2 (such as a pro) likes it.
I bet you that there's some pro zerg players that like it.
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On December 19 2012 07:23 HollowLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:21 kollin wrote:On December 19 2012 07:20 HollowLord wrote:On December 19 2012 07:19 Crawdad wrote:On December 19 2012 07:12 kollin wrote:
Because 15 speed is ridiculously fast. To put it into comparison, an on creep Zergling has a speed of 4... Wait, projectile speed is the same as unit speed? How was anybody dodging a speed 10 projectile, then? It's not, he's wrong. Oh really? Sorry I apologise for that, I assumed the speed numbers would be on the same scale. Right now if I had to make a totally scientific guess without any data whatsoever the Fungal travels at about the speed of an unupgraded zergling on creep. So, like 4.
That seems pretty reasonable to be honest. It means if you're army gets fungaled you won't 100% lose that part of the army.
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On December 19 2012 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:14 Adonminus wrote:On December 19 2012 07:08 Crawdad wrote:
So...
How easy was it to dodge the projectile before? It was pretty much as easy to hit as an emp which is also projectile, and didn't influence chain fungaling at all. I don't think you actually played the game with it. It was half the speed of EMP and was impossible to hit on mutas and Phoenix. Seriously, I don't think half the people complaining about the buffs saw how much of a joke fungal became after the nerf, and are mentally adding these buffs to WoL fungal.
A joke? Maybe. But its also possible that it just required some more practice.
But so what if it was way to hard to use. Why would be so that that fungal growth was underpowered and almsot useless. Nobody (except patch zergs) would mind it. Its a terrible bad designed spell which creates boring game.
On the other hand Blizzard has promised to make mech tvp viable. This has been a useless strategy for 2+ years and we have waited and waited. Infestors is now a (potentital) useless unit for 1 week, and apparently Blizzard don't like that and decides to buff it again. Wtf is up with their priorities; Ignore the infestor for now and focus on the real issues.
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On December 19 2012 07:24 HollowLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:24 Bagi wrote:
Anyone know how fast an EMP round moves? Is it comparable to the new fungal? It was said earlier in the thread that someone tested it out and found that EMP travels twice as fast as current Fungal, meaning the new Fungal would be at 75% emp speed
With EMP rounds being literally undodgeable, doesn't look like people will be dodging fungals either.
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On December 19 2012 07:25 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:22 kollin wrote:On December 19 2012 07:21 HollowLord wrote:On December 19 2012 07:20 kollin wrote:On December 19 2012 07:19 Insoleet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:16 Prog455 wrote:On December 19 2012 07:13 Insoleet wrote:
Guys wake up. 10 range means you actually see the projectile coming from a longer distance ! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES ITS SO OBVIOUS >_<
So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING
And if the infestor comes too close... it just dies to tanks and colossi.
Its actually the best way to nerf the infestor if they dont want to remove the root.
Just because Infestors CAN use Fungal from 10 range does not mean they do it every time. But if they dont, if they want to be more precise, they need to come closer. And die to tanks/colossi. As in current WoL state, where infestors can't do anything but die to colossi/tanks (against a decent player) There will be decision making involved, and positionnal war. And it's cool, obviously. No it's not. The infestor is the most horrendously badly designed unit in the game, and literally nobody likes it, wol or hots state. I like it..... Ok, nobody important in Starcraft 2 (such as a pro) likes it. I bet you that there's some pro zerg players that like it.
They probably enjoy using it yes, but I doubt in the end they actually like the design.
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So the infestor is better for top tier player and still bad for noob level like us. -_-
I like the first changes but infestor range is too high.
Blizzard need to nerf boring AOE unit like Infestor and Colossus to really situational unit and not obvious choice.
Reaper speed, Oracle damage, MSC speed, Broodlord? are still too good too in my opinion.
Buff Hydra also and nerf other Lair unit.
And swarm host is still a boring unit to play and redundant with infested terran and broodlings .
Otherwise some nice change in HOTS.
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The Fusion Core / Caduceus reactor thing makes no sense to me. BC's don't really mesh with a bio army, am I building this structure JUST for one upgrade?
The terran tech path is literally becoming a sh!tshow.
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On December 19 2012 07:25 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On December 19 2012 07:14 Adonminus wrote:On December 19 2012 07:08 Crawdad wrote:
So...
How easy was it to dodge the projectile before? It was pretty much as easy to hit as an emp which is also projectile, and didn't influence chain fungaling at all. I don't think you actually played the game with it. It was half the speed of EMP and was impossible to hit on mutas and Phoenix. Seriously, I don't think half the people complaining about the buffs saw how much of a joke fungal became after the nerf, and are mentally adding these buffs to WoL fungal. A joke? Maybe. But its also possible that it just required some more practice. But so what if it was way to hard to use. Why would be so that that fungal growth was underpowered and almsot useless. Nobody (except patch zergs) would mind it. Its a terrible bad designed spell which creates boring game. On the other hand Blizzard has promised to make mech tvp viable. This has been a useless strategy for 2+ years and we have waited and waited. Infestors is now a (potentital) useless unit for 1 week, and apparently Blizzard don't like that and decides to buff it again. Wtf is up with their priorities; Ignore the infestor for now and focus on the real issues.
It's likely that Mech TvP is something they've been continually working on. You have to admit completely overhauling a playstyle takes a bit more involved and long term effort than a band aid fix like this infestor one. I'm betting when we finally see mech changes, there will be a lot of them, and they won't just be simple number tweaks.
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Blizzard has officially given up on making terran a viable to play race.
New addition to terran bio is shitty widow mines and hellbats that have shit upgrades.
Mech is just lol outside of TvT.
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On December 19 2012 07:22 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:16 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:10 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:07 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:03 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:02 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:00 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 06:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 06:54 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 06:50 knOxStarcraft wrote:
Omg you people, I posted this earlier but I'll say again - fungal is still a projectile and INFESTED TERRANS STILL SUCK. They didn't buff infestors to where they were before, they just made them a viable option, which is good considering how strong bio is now. It also starts to fix the muta only play in zvz. As for broodlord infestor now; in zvp roach hydra viper seems like a better composition from the mid to late game anyways and toss has tempest now which counters broodlords, not to mention carriers are amazing now. In zvt, the medivac buffs will allow for better multiprong attacking (MMA and Polt omgggggg) against broodlord infestor, and when going mech there will already be a buff to air armor so thor/air combos will be very good I think. Fungal still fucking freezes units. I will not be happy with the infestor, ever, until this changes. Infested Terrans are now exactly where they should be. Tank shot fodder, and good economy harass. They should never have been "mass infestors and spawn free army anywhere you feel like" Good for you... I'm saying why this happened and giving reasons why you shouldn't be freaking out about the change, unless you're just mad about how the spell works and not about the balance of it. I have never been happy about the spell works, and every time I see Blizzard is changing fungal, I get let down when it's not a change to the freeze. Every other change is 100% pointless until that is addressed. I don't even really know what to say to this... so infestors are completely imbalanced in your eyes until fungal isn't a freeze? lol The freezing of units is BY FAR the biggest issue, and the biggest complaint about fungal. Have you been living under a rock for the past 6+ months? You didn't answer the question, freeze isn't necessarily a balance issue, but more a spectator issue. I'm not saying I agree with the mechanic, hell, I don't even like infestors, but the idea that the freeze mechanic makes them imbalanced is wrong. Also, with infested terrans being so weak I'm really not sure that infestors will be very good, in zvp anyways. The fungal rooted the army, but in most scenarios in high level games, infested terrans were used just as heavily as fungal in battles. edit: wow i fucked up the formatting of this post pretty badly lol Freezing is very much a balance issue, are you high? fixed the formatting TY. I'd say the range, damage numbers, and the projectile speed are the balance modifiers. And I did write it wrong, I meant the freeze mechanic isn't what was imbalanced about infestors in the first place, it was the fact that it was so hard to avoid while doing damage, while upgraded infested terrans were killing your units. Now infested terrans melt in a battle and all you need are other units that aren't caught in the fungal to snipe remaining infestors. It will remain to be seen whether that's easy to do or not, but all this QQ is unwarranted for the time being. Freeze is an integral part of how the spell works, it's very much a part of its balance. Fungal should be some sort of slow and not a freeze. The damage and range 9 is fine, especially since at range 9 you can have some good dancing between infestor/ghost/HT. The only problem I have ever had with fungal was its freeze, it makes a perfectly reasonable spell completely imbalanced. Infested Terrans should never have been used in a straight up battle, anyway. It was laughable that they were as effective as they were, you could wipe out high value armies with one or two fungals and a billion spawned Infested Terrans. You should never have been able to just mass infestors and then spawn a free army anywhere. The IT change was to encourage Infestors to be a SUPPORT unit, and not your main damn unit. IT still have good uses, but they are not the backbone of the army anymore.
Without infested terrans it DOES become a support unit! That's the whole point, unless your whole army is getting caught in the fungals then you should be able to snipe remaining infestors. And if your whole army IS getting caught in fungals then you're not splitting your army enough obviously.
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Bring the fucking stupid boring Warhound back or I'll pay every Terran player not to buy HotS.
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On December 19 2012 07:27 geoIOPS wrote:
The Fusion Core / Caduceus reactor thing makes no sense to me. BC's don't really mesh with a bio army, am I building this structure JUST for one upgrade?
The terran tech path is literally becoming a sh!tshow.
Lategame i dont think its a problem, if the upgrade is strong enough.
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Usual stuff here, Blizzard trying something 3 months before release and some people hyperventilating over it.
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Warhound will save us all now it's our last hope.
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On December 19 2012 07:27 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:22 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:16 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:10 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:07 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:03 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:02 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 07:00 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 06:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:On December 19 2012 06:54 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
[quote]
Fungal still fucking freezes units. I will not be happy with the infestor, ever, until this changes.
Infested Terrans are now exactly where they should be. Tank shot fodder, and good economy harass. They should never have been "mass infestors and spawn free army anywhere you feel like" Good for you... I'm saying why this happened and giving reasons why you shouldn't be freaking out about the change, unless you're just mad about how the spell works and not about the balance of it. I have never been happy about the spell works, and every time I see Blizzard is changing fungal, I get let down when it's not a change to the freeze. Every other change is 100% pointless until that is addressed. I don't even really know what to say to this... so infestors are completely imbalanced in your eyes until fungal isn't a freeze? lol The freezing of units is BY FAR the biggest issue, and the biggest complaint about fungal. Have you been living under a rock for the past 6+ months? You didn't answer the question, freeze isn't necessarily a balance issue, but more a spectator issue. I'm not saying I agree with the mechanic, hell, I don't even like infestors, but the idea that the freeze mechanic makes them imbalanced is wrong. Also, with infested terrans being so weak I'm really not sure that infestors will be very good, in zvp anyways. The fungal rooted the army, but in most scenarios in high level games, infested terrans were used just as heavily as fungal in battles. edit: wow i fucked up the formatting of this post pretty badly lol Freezing is very much a balance issue, are you high? fixed the formatting TY. I'd say the range, damage numbers, and the projectile speed are the balance modifiers. And I did write it wrong, I meant the freeze mechanic isn't what was imbalanced about infestors in the first place, it was the fact that it was so hard to avoid while doing damage, while upgraded infested terrans were killing your units. Now infested terrans melt in a battle and all you need are other units that aren't caught in the fungal to snipe remaining infestors. It will remain to be seen whether that's easy to do or not, but all this QQ is unwarranted for the time being. Freeze is an integral part of how the spell works, it's very much a part of its balance. Fungal should be some sort of slow and not a freeze. The damage and range 9 is fine, especially since at range 9 you can have some good dancing between infestor/ghost/HT. The only problem I have ever had with fungal was its freeze, it makes a perfectly reasonable spell completely imbalanced. Infested Terrans should never have been used in a straight up battle, anyway. It was laughable that they were as effective as they were, you could wipe out high value armies with one or two fungals and a billion spawned Infested Terrans. You should never have been able to just mass infestors and then spawn a free army anywhere. The IT change was to encourage Infestors to be a SUPPORT unit, and not your main damn unit. IT still have good uses, but they are not the backbone of the army anymore. Without infested terrans it DOES become a support unit! That's the whole point, unless your whole army is getting caught in the fungals then you should be able to snipe remaining infestors. And if your whole army IS getting caught in fungals then you're not splitting your army enough obviously.
I don't even...what? Come back when you aren't high/drunk.
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On December 19 2012 07:16 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:12 NomaKasd wrote:
I like half the changes as a Zerg player. I agree that the fungal growth needed a little buff because it was impossible to catch mutas in ZvZ unless you were playing the game like counter strike and trying to go for the headshot like all the way from dust 2 A into long A pit with a glock. You have to have pure clairvoyance to catch mutas with infestors. I think they should of ONLY increased the range to give the chance to catch mutas BUT also give the marines still the chance to split before fungal catches them but time will tell how this missile speed will affect the game, it might of been slightly slow.
The widow mines I agree were overpowered, especially marine/widow all in was difficult to defend and still put you behind or hellion/banshee/widow to deny your third for ages.
The blink nerf i don't understand that one??????????? did some protoss annoy blizzard or something recently, just say your sorry. Blink + MsC was ruining PvP. I think with this extra research time you can have an immortal out now by the time the rush hits or something.
What's is MsC? I'll take your word for it but what's MsC?
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On December 19 2012 07:22 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:21 HollowLord wrote:On December 19 2012 07:20 kollin wrote:On December 19 2012 07:19 Insoleet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:16 Prog455 wrote:On December 19 2012 07:13 Insoleet wrote:
Guys wake up. 10 range means you actually see the projectile coming from a longer distance ! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES ITS SO OBVIOUS >_<
So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING
And if the infestor comes too close... it just dies to tanks and colossi.
Its actually the best way to nerf the infestor if they dont want to remove the root.
Just because Infestors CAN use Fungal from 10 range does not mean they do it every time. But if they dont, if they want to be more precise, they need to come closer. And die to tanks/colossi. As in current WoL state, where infestors can't do anything but die to colossi/tanks (against a decent player) There will be decision making involved, and positionnal war. And it's cool, obviously. No it's not. The infestor is the most horrendously badly designed unit in the game, and literally nobody likes it, wol or hots state. I like it..... Ok, nobody important in Starcraft 2 (such as a pro) likes it.
You seem to ignore a lot of the good things about the infestor. It is a very cool raiding unit and, the burrow and IT dynamic is cool and fun to watch and the excitement of how fungals land IS good but the problem is that these days they always land perfectly these days (hence the term amazing fungals being so frequent). If fungal was harder to get on target then we could go back to when it was exciting and fun to watch.
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On December 19 2012 07:29 NomaKasd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:16 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 19 2012 07:12 NomaKasd wrote:
I like half the changes as a Zerg player. I agree that the fungal growth needed a little buff because it was impossible to catch mutas in ZvZ unless you were playing the game like counter strike and trying to go for the headshot like all the way from dust 2 A into long A pit with a glock. You have to have pure clairvoyance to catch mutas with infestors. I think they should of ONLY increased the range to give the chance to catch mutas BUT also give the marines still the chance to split before fungal catches them but time will tell how this missile speed will affect the game, it might of been slightly slow.
The widow mines I agree were overpowered, especially marine/widow all in was difficult to defend and still put you behind or hellion/banshee/widow to deny your third for ages.
The blink nerf i don't understand that one??????????? did some protoss annoy blizzard or something recently, just say your sorry. Blink + MsC was ruining PvP. I think with this extra research time you can have an immortal out now by the time the rush hits or something. What's is MsC? I'll take your word for it but what's MsC?
Mothership Core
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Damn it, I liked the state Fungal Growth was in 
Now it's just back to mass Infestors, but even worse, since there's Viper/Hydra threat and Mutalisk threat.
Both buffed from WoL.
Also Blink is because Widow Mines don't one shot Stalkers anymore, annoying how, a change to the Widow Mine must mean a total balance change to everything, because Blink has to be adressed.
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EPT
