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Beta Balance Update #10 - Page 12

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
1835 CommentsPost a Reply
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HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
December 18 2012 22:20 GMT
#221
On December 19 2012 07:19 Crawdad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:12 kollin wrote:
Because 15 speed is ridiculously fast. To put it into comparison, an on creep Zergling has a speed of 4...


Wait, projectile speed is the same as unit speed?

How was anybody dodging a speed 10 projectile, then?


It's not, he's wrong.
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
RockIronrod
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia1369 Posts
December 18 2012 22:20 GMT
#222
On December 19 2012 07:14 Adonminus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:08 Crawdad wrote:
So...

How easy was it to dodge the projectile before?

It was pretty much as easy to hit as an emp which is also projectile, and didn't influence chain fungaling at all.

I don't think you actually played the game with it. It was half the speed of EMP and was impossible to hit on mutas and Phoenix.
Seriously, I don't think half the people complaining about the buffs saw how much of a joke fungal became after the nerf, and are mentally adding these buffs to WoL fungal.
Prog455
Profile Joined April 2012
Denmark970 Posts
December 18 2012 22:20 GMT
#223
On December 19 2012 07:18 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:16 Prog455 wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:13 Insoleet wrote:
Guys wake up. 10 range means you actually see the projectile coming from a longer distance ! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES ITS SO OBVIOUS >_<

So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING
And if the infestor comes too close... it just dies to tanks and colossi.

Its actually the best way to nerf the infestor if they dont want to remove the root.


Just because Infestors CAN use Fungal from 10 range does not mean they do it every time.


So basically what you're saying is, you should rely on your opponent fucking up?


I play Terran so that is pretty much what i have been doing against Zerg and Protoss for a while now.
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
December 18 2012 22:20 GMT
#224
On December 19 2012 07:19 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:17 Insoleet wrote:
So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING

Yes, lets nerf it to 40 range, imagine from how far we see it coming then...
Really fascinating I see it coming how they are going to rape my vikings, but how does that help me? (Don't tell me I can then dodge it, there is no way vikings are going to dodge a 15 speed projectile).


Put your brain on please.

When you'll see infestors, you'll start moving your vikings because YOU KNOW zerg will launch fungles. And because your vikings will be moving (and kiting BL / Corruptor indefinitely if they are not hit by fungle), the projectile wont hit all your vikings as in WoL.


Do you have any idea how hard fungal + infested terrans rape vikings now?


In WoL...

In Hots, lol. IT doesnt even get upgrades, fungals are not "click and hit"... Wont be ever strong as before.
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
December 18 2012 22:20 GMT
#225
On December 19 2012 07:19 Insoleet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:16 Prog455 wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:13 Insoleet wrote:
Guys wake up. 10 range means you actually see the projectile coming from a longer distance ! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES ITS SO OBVIOUS >_<

So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING
And if the infestor comes too close... it just dies to tanks and colossi.

Its actually the best way to nerf the infestor if they dont want to remove the root.


Just because Infestors CAN use Fungal from 10 range does not mean they do it every time.


But if they dont, if they want to be more precise, they need to come closer. And die to tanks/colossi. As in current WoL state, where infestors can't do anything but die to colossi/tanks (against a decent player)

There will be decision making involved, and positionnal war. And it's cool, obviously.


No it's not. The infestor is the most horrendously badly designed unit in the game, and literally nobody likes it, wol or hots state.
Shox85
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany33 Posts
December 18 2012 22:21 GMT
#226
HTOMario has shown how cool WidowMines could be but it seems like Blizzard don't want Mines to be used like that.
In my opinion it should be a defence unit but like this its just a bad harassment unit. I think they should either buff the splashdamgage/firerate or give it only 1 supply. It's to bad for costing 2 supply now.
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
December 18 2012 22:21 GMT
#227
On December 19 2012 07:20 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:19 Insoleet wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:16 Prog455 wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:13 Insoleet wrote:
Guys wake up. 10 range means you actually see the projectile coming from a longer distance ! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES ITS SO OBVIOUS >_<

So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING
And if the infestor comes too close... it just dies to tanks and colossi.

Its actually the best way to nerf the infestor if they dont want to remove the root.


Just because Infestors CAN use Fungal from 10 range does not mean they do it every time.


But if they dont, if they want to be more precise, they need to come closer. And die to tanks/colossi. As in current WoL state, where infestors can't do anything but die to colossi/tanks (against a decent player)

There will be decision making involved, and positionnal war. And it's cool, obviously.


No it's not. The infestor is the most horrendously badly designed unit in the game, and literally nobody likes it, wol or hots state.


I like it.....
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
December 18 2012 22:21 GMT
#228
On December 19 2012 07:20 HollowLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:19 Crawdad wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:12 kollin wrote:
Because 15 speed is ridiculously fast. To put it into comparison, an on creep Zergling has a speed of 4...


Wait, projectile speed is the same as unit speed?

How was anybody dodging a speed 10 projectile, then?


It's not, he's wrong.


Oh really? Sorry I apologise for that, I assumed the speed numbers would be on the same scale.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
December 18 2012 22:21 GMT
#229
--- Nuked ---
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
December 18 2012 22:21 GMT
#230
On December 19 2012 06:55 MangoMountain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 06:48 Vega62a wrote:
Nerfing the medivac made sense - it was way too easy to get the upgrade on 2-3 bases and then your army was pretty well unstoppable.

But the infestor buff?

...Really, Blizzard? You want to make the infestor BETTER in ZvT? Were you feeling like the matchup was just too easy for Terran?

Infestors were extremely trashy after fungal became a projectile, it was a useless unit. I know that armchair game designers think fungal is bad for the game or whatever, but whatever you think of that, nerfing a unit to uselessness isn't the way to go. We've already had enough of that in wol


Yes, because we were able to deduce this after 1.5 weeks of playtesting where barely any Zergs even practiced using the new infestor -_-
Sup
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-18 22:22:31
December 18 2012 22:22 GMT
#231
On December 19 2012 07:19 Crawdad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:12 kollin wrote:
Because 15 speed is ridiculously fast. To put it into comparison, an on creep Zergling has a speed of 4...


Wait, projectile speed is the same as unit speed?

How was anybody dodging a speed 10 projectile, then?


If you fire from range 8, it takes 0.8 seconds to land with 2 radius. If they shoot directly on top of the one unit, you'd need 2.5 speed to walk from the center of the area to off the edge of it. Stimmed marine is 3.375 speed, mutalisks are 4.0.

Even if you couldnt escape from the center because of speed, the units closer to the edges could still escape

^Happy birthday avilo
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
December 18 2012 22:22 GMT
#232
On December 19 2012 07:16 knOxStarcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:10 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:07 knOxStarcraft wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:03 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:02 knOxStarcraft wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:00 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:57 knOxStarcraft wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:54 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:50 knOxStarcraft wrote:
Omg you people, I posted this earlier but I'll say again - fungal is still a projectile and INFESTED TERRANS STILL SUCK. They didn't buff infestors to where they were before, they just made them a viable option, which is good considering how strong bio is now. It also starts to fix the muta only play in zvz. As for broodlord infestor now; in zvp roach hydra viper seems like a better composition from the mid to late game anyways and toss has tempest now which counters broodlords, not to mention carriers are amazing now. In zvt, the medivac buffs will allow for better multiprong attacking (MMA and Polt omgggggg) against broodlord infestor, and when going mech there will already be a buff to air armor so thor/air combos will be very good I think.


Fungal still fucking freezes units. I will not be happy with the infestor, ever, until this changes.

Infested Terrans are now exactly where they should be. Tank shot fodder, and good economy harass. They should never have been "mass infestors and spawn free army anywhere you feel like"

Good for you... I'm saying why this happened and giving reasons why you shouldn't be freaking out about the change, unless you're just mad about how the spell works and not about the balance of it.


I have never been happy about the spell works, and every time I see Blizzard is changing fungal, I get let down when it's not a change to the freeze. Every other change is 100% pointless until that is addressed.

I don't even really know what to say to this... so infestors are completely imbalanced in your eyes until fungal isn't a freeze? lol

The freezing of units is BY FAR the biggest issue, and the biggest complaint about fungal. Have you been living under a rock for the past 6+ months?

You didn't answer the question, freeze isn't necessarily a balance issue, but more a spectator issue. I'm not saying I agree with the mechanic, hell, I don't even like infestors, but the idea that the freeze mechanic makes them imbalanced is wrong. Also, with infested terrans being so weak I'm really not sure that infestors will be very good, in zvp anyways. The fungal rooted the army, but in most scenarios in high level games, infested terrans were used just as heavily as fungal in battles.


edit: wow i fucked up the formatting of this post pretty badly lol


Freezing is very much a balance issue, are you high?

fixed the formatting

TY. I'd say the range, damage numbers, and the projectile speed are the balance modifiers. And I did write it wrong, I meant the freeze mechanic isn't what was imbalanced about infestors in the first place, it was the fact that it was so hard to avoid while doing damage, while upgraded infested terrans were killing your units. Now infested terrans melt in a battle and all you need are other units that aren't caught in the fungal to snipe remaining infestors. It will remain to be seen whether that's easy to do or not, but all this QQ is unwarranted for the time being.


Freeze is an integral part of how the spell works, it's very much a part of its balance. Fungal should be some sort of slow and not a freeze. The damage and range 9 is fine, especially since at range 9 you can have some good dancing between infestor/ghost/HT. The only problem I have ever had with fungal was its freeze, it makes a perfectly reasonable spell completely imbalanced.

Infested Terrans should never have been used in a straight up battle, anyway. It was laughable that they were as effective as they were, you could wipe out high value armies with one or two fungals and a billion spawned Infested Terrans. You should never have been able to just mass infestors and then spawn a free army anywhere. The IT change was to encourage Infestors to be a SUPPORT unit, and not your main damn unit. IT still have good uses, but they are not the backbone of the army anymore.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
December 18 2012 22:22 GMT
#233
On December 19 2012 07:14 Khalleb wrote:
i bet every ptch zerg is sooo happy right now


let's call them expansionzerg
Terran & Potato Salad.
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
December 18 2012 22:22 GMT
#234
On December 19 2012 07:21 HollowLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:20 kollin wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:19 Insoleet wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:16 Prog455 wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:13 Insoleet wrote:
Guys wake up. 10 range means you actually see the projectile coming from a longer distance ! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES ITS SO OBVIOUS >_<

So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING
And if the infestor comes too close... it just dies to tanks and colossi.

Its actually the best way to nerf the infestor if they dont want to remove the root.


Just because Infestors CAN use Fungal from 10 range does not mean they do it every time.


But if they dont, if they want to be more precise, they need to come closer. And die to tanks/colossi. As in current WoL state, where infestors can't do anything but die to colossi/tanks (against a decent player)

There will be decision making involved, and positionnal war. And it's cool, obviously.


No it's not. The infestor is the most horrendously badly designed unit in the game, and literally nobody likes it, wol or hots state.


I like it.....


Ok, nobody important in Starcraft 2 (such as a pro) likes it.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-18 22:23:27
December 18 2012 22:23 GMT
#235
On December 19 2012 07:21 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 06:55 MangoMountain wrote:
On December 19 2012 06:48 Vega62a wrote:
Nerfing the medivac made sense - it was way too easy to get the upgrade on 2-3 bases and then your army was pretty well unstoppable.

But the infestor buff?

...Really, Blizzard? You want to make the infestor BETTER in ZvT? Were you feeling like the matchup was just too easy for Terran?

Infestors were extremely trashy after fungal became a projectile, it was a useless unit. I know that armchair game designers think fungal is bad for the game or whatever, but whatever you think of that, nerfing a unit to uselessness isn't the way to go. We've already had enough of that in wol


Yes, because we were able to deduce this after 1.5 weeks of playtesting where barely any Zergs even practiced using the new infestor because now they have other viable options anyway


Figured i'd add on to that.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
December 18 2012 22:23 GMT
#236
On December 19 2012 07:21 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:20 HollowLord wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:19 Crawdad wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:12 kollin wrote:
Because 15 speed is ridiculously fast. To put it into comparison, an on creep Zergling has a speed of 4...


Wait, projectile speed is the same as unit speed?

How was anybody dodging a speed 10 projectile, then?


It's not, he's wrong.


Oh really? Sorry I apologise for that, I assumed the speed numbers would be on the same scale.


Right now if I had to make a totally scientific guess without any data whatsoever the Fungal travels at about the speed of an unupgraded zergling on creep. So, like 4.
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
December 18 2012 22:24 GMT
#237
Anyone know how fast an EMP round moves? Is it comparable to the new fungal?
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
December 18 2012 22:24 GMT
#238
On December 19 2012 07:22 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2012 07:21 HollowLord wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:20 kollin wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:19 Insoleet wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:16 Prog455 wrote:
On December 19 2012 07:13 Insoleet wrote:
Guys wake up. 10 range means you actually see the projectile coming from a longer distance ! JUST OPEN YOUR EYES ITS SO OBVIOUS >_<

So much brainless whining there... 10 range = MORE DISTANCE = YOU SEE IT COMING
And if the infestor comes too close... it just dies to tanks and colossi.

Its actually the best way to nerf the infestor if they dont want to remove the root.


Just because Infestors CAN use Fungal from 10 range does not mean they do it every time.


But if they dont, if they want to be more precise, they need to come closer. And die to tanks/colossi. As in current WoL state, where infestors can't do anything but die to colossi/tanks (against a decent player)

There will be decision making involved, and positionnal war. And it's cool, obviously.


No it's not. The infestor is the most horrendously badly designed unit in the game, and literally nobody likes it, wol or hots state.


I like it.....


Ok, nobody important in Starcraft 2 (such as a pro) likes it.


Maybe fungle needs a redesign. I can agree with that. But well, it will be a hard spell to redesign since its the only decent way for zerg to have battle control.
But if they want to stay with a rooting spell, this nerf is the best way to make it interesting.
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
December 18 2012 22:24 GMT
#239
On December 19 2012 07:24 Bagi wrote:
Anyone know how fast an EMP round moves? Is it comparable to the new fungal?


It was said earlier in the thread that someone tested it out and found that EMP travels twice as fast as current Fungal, meaning the new Fungal would be at 75% emp speed
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
WeaponX.7
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada52 Posts
December 18 2012 22:25 GMT
#240
Once again Blizzard is making it clear they either don't know or don't give a fuck what's really going on within the game.
Grrr... = first bonjwa
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