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furo
Germany449 Posts
if you lack vikings you can still go mass thor with this and beat unupgraded blords more easily than w/o the upgrade. yes its not a huge buff to it but its fine/good enough to now kill them a little bit more easily. also i dont think it should be buffed and make the thor into a A-move unit that kills heavy air easily since its really resistent with upgrades. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
Also means it doubles up really nicely with battlecruisers as a super late game army. | ||
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BigAsia
Canada451 Posts
On December 08 2012 10:51 eviltomahawk wrote: This is correct. Because the missiles deal damage separated into 4 missiles, armor deductions are counted 4 times. So assuming the target has 1 armor, each of the 6 damage missiles will have its damage reduced to 5, which makes the total damage only 20 instead of 24. With the cannons, the armor deduction is only counted once for the one instance of damage, so the 24 damage is only reduced to 23. Plus, the cannons have a cooldown of 2 seconds as opposed to the 3 second cooldown that the missiles have, so the cannons end up firing faster. Using the cannons, one Thor will beat one Broodlord. Using missiles, the Thor loses. Ummm can you please verify this? I've tested it countless times in the unit tester and I can't see how one thor beats one broodlord... | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
On December 08 2012 18:05 SirPinky wrote: I'm so close to being done with this post b/c people like you. Please read the rest of the 4 pages before you comment. There is a reason for splash and its effectiveness. Please do not comment on this post unless you play Terran, are masters or higher and have the BETA. Thank you! It's really simple. HP cannons already do 150% of the damage of Javelins without taking into account armour, take 1/4 of the losses due to armour and if you're talking a unit with 1 armour ALONE, you need to splash at least two with Javelins to keep up with HP cannons. At 3 armour you need to splash 3. This is not empirical science. This is basic addition, subtraction and multiplication. This is definitely not a thread for pulling ladder rank on. I'm a gold leaguer and even I understand where I'll use these two modes. Why can't you? | ||
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Rannasha
Netherlands2398 Posts
Thor vs generic 1-armor air-unit @ 0 upgrades: Javelins: 4 x (6 - 1) = 20 damage per shot. 3 sec delay between shots, so 6.67 DPS. HIP: 1 x (24 - 1) = 23 damage per shot. 2 sec delay between shots, so 11.5 DPS. Thor vs generic 1-armor air-unit. Both at 3-3 upgrades. Assumption: HIP cannons gain +2 damage per upgrade (less than 10%, fairly conservative guess). Javelins: 4 x (6 + 3 - 4) = 20 damage per shot. 6.67 DPS. HIP: 1 x (24 + 6 - 4) = 26 damage per shot. 13 DPS. So depending on how much the HIP mode gains from each upgrade, the advantages of using it over the Javelins can increase with upgrade-level, even if both players stay on equal upgrades. | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On December 12 2012 00:00 BigAsia wrote: Ummm can you please verify this? I've tested it countless times in the unit tester and I can't see how one thor beats one broodlord... Well when calculating this you have to ignore the Broodling damage, because if you want to deal with Broodlords by using Thors, then you need something to remove the Broodlings. And then a Broodlord deals around 22 damage vs 24 damage of the Thors, that attacks faster. Even if Broodlings just deal 1-3 damage to a Thor, their attack speed is pretty high, and two Broodlings deal more damage then the Broodlord itself. I like the Broodlord/Thor dynamic, as they both need support in beating up the other. And doing a direct comparison will never give useful data. | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
Javelin: strong vs. low armor, light-class and clumped up units. HIP: strong vs. high armor, non-light-class and spread out units. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On December 13 2012 01:52 willoc wrote: Is this still up for debate? Javelin: strong vs. low armor, light-class and clumped up units. HIP: strong vs. high armor, non-light-class and spread out units. I think what is up for debate is whether the second niche is actually worth anything. Specifically, the "spread out" part. BCs tend to be spread, but pretty much every other capital ship gets used in a big ball--and the thing is, switching modes takes too long to do it in combat after you see how your opponent has positioned his ships, so you'll often have to make a guess prior to the engagement, which means 95% of the time you'll just leave it in javeline mode regardless of enemy composition. that just isn't interesting. HIP should be better vs the stuff its designed to be good against, so that the choice is actually an interesting one. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On December 13 2012 01:56 awesomoecalypse wrote: I think what is up for debate is whether the second niche is actually worth anything. Specifically, the "spread out" part. BCs tend to be spread, but pretty much every other capital ship gets used in a big ball--and the thing is, switching modes takes too long to do it in combat after you see how your opponent has positioned his ships, so you'll often have to make a guess prior to the engagement, which means 95% of the time you'll just leave it in javeline mode regardless of enemy composition. that just isn't interesting. HIP should be better vs the stuff its designed to be good against, so that the choice is actually an interesting one. I notice top tier zergs usually spread their broodlords out. I believe in ZvT you will want HIP-mode unless it's early game or they are going muta-heavy (which I don't think ever happens past a point in time). | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:31 larse wrote: OK. A new thing after the newest patch (the muta regen patch) is a ninja buff to thor. So, when colossus is out of range 7, thor uses the high-impact attack, when colossus is within range 7, thor uses ground attack. Awesome. Are you implying Thors won't use their AA splash missiles (I forgot the name) when in enemy Colossus is in range? Only high-impact works like this? | ||
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DaveVAH
Canada162 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/14waua/thor_high_impact_payload_hitting_colossi_now/ | ||
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Trilobyte
Canada2 Posts
I tested this at Maxed 3/3 for both (Even 3/3 ground for broodling damage) and No Upgrades and in both situations the HIP did more damage. I tested this 1v1, 2v2, 6v6, 10v10. Not saying this is the counter to Broodlords because of bad Thor size/pathing but the damage is much better with the HIP then the standard Javelins. Unless someone else has tested otherwise..... | ||
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