EPTIn other words, the new Ultra is cool. It feels strong, a unit you want to make. Don't nerf that, instead look at ways to buff the other races as necessary to deal with it.
HotS balance update #8 - Page 111
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
In other words, the new Ultra is cool. It feels strong, a unit you want to make. Don't nerf that, instead look at ways to buff the other races as necessary to deal with it. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 12 2012 09:36 Bagi wrote: No, what sounds crazy that you are buffing a perfectly balanced unit in every aspect because somehow it "suits them well". I could understand if there was a trade-off, like you wanted to make the ultra a better tank but less damaging, but to buff a perfectly balanced (maybe even too strong atm) unit in every aspect is just madness. You don't even present proper arguments, just some generic bullshit about increasing strategy through "logic".Here's some strategy game weaknesses and patterns for you: with your ultralisks, a hive tech zerg would never lose a game again. For your sake, I hope you are trolling. Really? I can use the same type of logic with the immortal, what is it? a tanky unit or a high damage unit? And you think the unit is strong, but does it only seem that way? or are people just near sighted? I could present a proper argument, and trust me I could make a long pages worth, but who honestly wants to read so much text? wouldn't you rather get to the point? You say a hive tech zerg will never lose with the ultras, oh on the contray. did I mention anything about the Model size or pathing? no. The ultralisk is only as effective as its postioning when the egagement/battle begins. You should know, to many ultras is never a good thing, when they are together or behind units they are dancing space elephants. People get to, how to say "predictable" when you make a unit seemly to good, (yet testing has shown that the changes you made are very good for the unit) people build more of it. when you nerf something people make less of it. if units are food then Infestors and BL's are the mcdonalds burgers and fries for Zerg. the Ultralisk is like a Fruit shake, Its really good but not that many people get it because its deemed "sucky" by the ones who eat the burgers and fries. If anything the ultralisk change in HOTS is comparable to adding another fruit in with the shake, the new taste is noticable, but people aren't going to lay off the burgers and fries are they?. | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On December 12 2012 09:24 Bagi wrote: Uhhh... Pretty much every zerg is rushing to ultras right now, they are insanely strong against terran even without infestor or viper support. I play bio TvZ against high masters and GM opponents on beta. So please, stop asking for buffs to extremely strong units if you have no idea what you're talking about. I think right now with caduceus factored in, it's fine from what I've played. I agree more ultra buffs would be insane. They destroy marines pretty badly now. Absolutely loving HotS though. Every race feels so much more dynamic with so many more possible viable options. Hellbats with bio and combined upgrades alone are making this game way more fun than WoL right now. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 12 2012 09:42 awesomoecalypse wrote: I like the new Ultra a lot--I think they may be a bit imba in certain matchups (ZvT and ZvZ particularly), but I'd prefer to see that dealt with by buffing the counters of those races to deal with them. If they lost Frenzy for example, Infestors would be somewhat effective against them (although not a perfect counter because Ultras are fast enough to dodge the fungal projectile), and Broodlord damage vs massive could be buffed which would only effect Ultras, Colossi (I don't think anyone will cry over stuff that weakens the Colossus), Thors (who just got a new attack of their own which could be buffed to compensate if necessary) and Archons (which wouldn't be gamebreaking imo). In other words, the new Ultra is cool. It feels strong, a unit you want to make. Don't nerf that, instead look at ways to buff the other races as necessary to deal with it. you could also buff tanks in HOTS by improving the damage scaling( ohh wait they did that but it was called a bug and removed :/ ) and archons already destory ultras, and the thors new cannons could be allowed to target massive units like the collosi and the ultralisk and the archon besides hitting air units. I do plan on posting a really big post about all the splash damage and upgrade scaling the ultralisk has went threw, just to show people how many suggestion is probally the most effective(in a good way) for the ultralisk, and also to show people the problems with the ultralisk. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 12 2012 09:46 SolidMoose wrote: I think right now with caduceus factored in, it's fine from what I've played. I agree more ultra buffs would be insane. They destroy marines pretty badly now. Absolutely loving HotS though. Every race feels so much more dynamic with so many more possible viable options. Hellbats with bio and combined upgrades alone are making this game way more fun than WoL right now. so its now insane to kill marines? lol XD | ||
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mushlafa
29 Posts
On December 11 2012 22:07 pOriishan wrote: It doesn't get dfferent animation. And please, read over 110+ pages of this thread. People have discussed it since beginning. I was hoping it would have some sort of different animation so the opposing player can have an idea that you've gotten the upgrade. Maybe just a different colour beam I guess. Also, I haven't got time to read the entire 110+ page thread. I tried to search maybe about 20-30 different pages for the keyword "Caduceus" but didn't find it on any of the pages I tried, except of course the OP. For some reason it doesn't let me view all posts on a single page anymore. If that function was working then I would have been able to answer my own question. Anyways, I think I did a sufficient amount of searching before I just wanted to ask the TL community for an answer. :-) | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 12 2012 09:51 mushlafa wrote: I was hoping it would have some sort of different animation so the opposing player can have an idea that you've gotten the upgrade. Maybe just a different colour beam I guess. Also, I haven't got time to read the entire 110+ page thread. I tried to search maybe about 20-30 different pages for the keyword "Caduceus" but didn't find it on any of the pages I tried, except of course the OP. For some reason it doesn't let me view all posts on a single page anymore. If that function was working then I would have been able to answer my own question. Anyways, I think I did a sufficient amount of searching before I just wanted to ask the TL community for an answer. :-) Medivacs lights flash and spin when healing something, they spin faster with the new upgrade lol(its hard to notice) | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On December 12 2012 09:11 Zergrusher wrote: Have you tried testing this with Bio with upgrade medivacs? the heal rates alone combined with how bad 33% splash is(even more so factoring armor and Heal rates) reduces the ultralisk's effectiveness. Bio + tanks is saying to you, that im not using bio and upgrade medivacs? Actually ultras doesnt give a **** about medivac, in WoL marines were the damage soak againts ultras (as silly as it sounds) in marinemarauder, now marines and marauders dies at some rate. No medivac can heal out ultras, you can outdps but you will lose a lot, combined with vipers you are not even dpsing. go figure. | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On December 12 2012 09:34 Zergrusher wrote: Well Don't Battle hellions and splitting handle those quite effectively with medivac support? You might not notice this right now but i can promise you in the future the battle hellion mode will be quite the main stay in TVZ. Battle Hellions are only good againts lings. Banelings just shreds battlehellions and they are not even good againts anything else that Z can make with ultras. MB IT's but IT's are just not cutting it anymore (thank god) | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:12 Breach_hu wrote: Bio + tanks is saying to you, that im not using bio and upgrade medivacs? Actually ultras doesnt give a **** about medivac, in WoL marines were the damage soak againts ultras (as silly as it sounds) in marinemarauder, now marines and marauders dies at some rate. No medivac can heal out ultras, you can outdps but you will lose a lot, combined with vipers you are not even dpsing. go figure. Heal rates are increased and higher wiht the upgrade. You can out heal the splash still. and you can move out of blinding cloud and remember don't clump your tanks. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:14 Breach_hu wrote: Battle Hellions are only good againts lings. Banelings just shreds battlehellions and they are not even good againts anything else that Z can make with ultras. MB IT's but IT's are just not cutting it anymore (thank god) Bio-Battle hellion is very good, don't let the new ultras fool you. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:18 Zergrusher wrote: Bio-Battle hellion is very good, don't let the new ultras fool you. Bio Hellbat will not win vs alot of Banelings . How in the world would you ever engage on creep with this ? Hellbats are light they get demolished by Banes . | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:18 Zergrusher wrote: Bio-Battle hellion is very good, don't let the new ultras fool you. First, upgraded medivacs cant outheal Ultras. Its a fact. Second, battlehellions are just a waste of money, if Z goes anything else than lings. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:15 Zergrusher wrote: Heal rates are increased and higher wiht the upgrade. You can out heal the splash still. and you can move out of blinding cloud and remember don't clump your tanks. No you cannot outheal the splash thats a flat out lie. | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:15 Zergrusher wrote: Heal rates are increased and higher wiht the upgrade. You can out heal the splash still. and you can move out of blinding cloud and remember don't clump your tanks. Yes I know that i can move out from the blinding cloud, but Ultras are faster, and moving back with out shooting snowballs really fast in a MMMVT vs ultralingbanelingviper fight. Really fast. I never clump my tanks, ty for the advice. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:23 Breach_hu wrote: Yes I know that i can move out from the blinding cloud, but Ultras are faster, and moving back with out shooting snowballs really fast in a MMMVT vs ultralingbanelingviper fight. Really fast. I never clump my tanks, ty for the advice. so if you know what to do then ultralisk still have the same problems as in WOL. | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:29 Zergrusher wrote: so if you know what to do then ultralisk still have the same problems as in WOL. You are just ignorant, i really dont know why i want to argue with you. No they are different than WoL, because they are just killing marines, instead of not killing them. So with bio you need good position, but againts good position zergs use blinding cloud, so you have to give up your good position, which means you have to fight in a unfavorable position, which leads to that ultras can reach their full potential on their DPS. Am I clear this time? | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:29 monkybone wrote: I think a bonus to armored units on the Thor would be a fitting response to the ultra buff. This way both a meching terran and a bio-tank terran can respond to heavy ultra armies. Ultra based compositions are really effective vs bio-tank already, and considering terran will upgrade +vehicle attack either way, Thors may be an accessible and efficient reaction to ultras. Thors are already good againts Ultras, but they are just bad againts Ultras with Vipers. No bonus damage can fix that. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:29 Zergrusher wrote: so if you know what to do then ultralisk still have the same problems as in WOL. Unless you magically never engage on the open field which is pretty much impossible Ultralisks are going to deal major damage. Most of the maps are so open that you will have to fight there alot. | ||
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