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On December 12 2012 07:44 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 07:31 s3rp wrote:
Btw anybody who wants ANOTHER Ultralisk buff hasn't see them in action on Beta they're insanely strong now. They do not need another buff unless you want to make them overpowered. If thats insanely strong then you haven't look at the unit as a whole and how it works because ultras are not "strong" they are just slightly improved. I'm not saying it wasn't a good move on them giving them flat damage, but upgrade scaling combined with 33% splash causes problems.
In other words, "actual experience doesn't matter, you should try theorycrafting."
Also, stop putting ridiculous amount of white space in your posts!
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On December 12 2012 08:09 JDub wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 07:44 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 07:31 s3rp wrote:
Btw anybody who wants ANOTHER Ultralisk buff hasn't see them in action on Beta they're insanely strong now. They do not need another buff unless you want to make them overpowered. If thats insanely strong then you haven't look at the unit as a whole and how it works because ultras are not "strong" they are just slightly improved. I'm not saying it wasn't a good move on them giving them flat damage, but upgrade scaling combined with 33% splash causes problems. In other words, "actual experience doesn't matter, you should try theorycrafting." Also, stop putting ridiculous amount of white space in your posts!
no, its called knowing the game(hint, Think like they think).
and lol what?
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Apparently you don't know the game because you sound like have no idea what the hell you're talking about. How strong do you think Ultras should be with the Larva mechanic and the relative fast speed they build in ?
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Ultras right now can take out a larger army value terran army (bio + tanks) with a couple of vipers. Just saying. They are just wrecking everything on the ground.
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On December 12 2012 08:26 s3rp wrote:
Apparently you don't know the game because you sound like have no idea what the hell you're talking about. How strong do you think Ultras should be with the Larva mechanic and the relative fast speed they build in ?
600 HP with a even number Flat damage with upgrade scaling of +4 per upgrade, with 50% splash
which would be:
36 Flat damage with +4 per melee upgrade
Which would equal 48 damage at +3 attack
and with 50% splash that would be 24 damage.
Very reasonable for cost etc.
Because think about it, the 1 unit that the ultralisk is attacking gets 100% damage that would mean that The units getting splashed are taking 50% damage.
use logic man.
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On December 12 2012 08:56 Breach_hu wrote:
Ultras right now can take out a larger army value terran army (bio + tanks) with a couple of vipers. Just saying. They are just wrecking everything on the ground.
Have you tried testing this with Bio with upgrade medivacs?
the heal rates alone combined with how bad 33% splash is(even more so factoring armor and Heal rates) reduces the ultralisk's effectiveness.
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On December 12 2012 09:09 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 08:26 s3rp wrote:
Apparently you don't know the game because you sound like have no idea what the hell you're talking about. How strong do you think Ultras should be with the Larva mechanic and the relative fast speed they build in ? 600 HP with a even number Flat damage with upgrade scaling of +4 per upgrade, with 50% splash which would be: 36 Flat damage with +4 per melee upgrade Which would equal 48 damage at +3 attack and with 50% splash that would be 24 damage. Very reasonable for cost etc. Because think about it, the 1 unit that the ultralisk is attacking gets 100% damage that would mean that The units getting splashed are taking 50% damage. use logic man.
And whats your exact reasoning for this ? Did you see them in use yet with the recent buff ? A equally upgraded Terran ground army already struggles to deal with them if they have some support.
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On December 12 2012 09:11 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 08:56 Breach_hu wrote:
Ultras right now can take out a larger army value terran army (bio + tanks) with a couple of vipers. Just saying. They are just wrecking everything on the ground. Have you tried testing this with Bio with upgrade medivacs? the heal rates alone combined with how bad 33% splash is(even more so factoring armor and Heal rates) reduces the ultralisk's effectiveness.
I did it doesn't make a difference Ultras deal enough burst damage . The new medivacs do not heal throuh this.
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On December 12 2012 09:16 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 09:11 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 08:56 Breach_hu wrote:
Ultras right now can take out a larger army value terran army (bio + tanks) with a couple of vipers. Just saying. They are just wrecking everything on the ground. Have you tried testing this with Bio with upgrade medivacs? the heal rates alone combined with how bad 33% splash is(even more so factoring armor and Heal rates) reduces the ultralisk's effectiveness. I did it doesn't make a difference Ultras deal enough burst damage . The new medivacs do not heal throuh this.
actually yes they do when upgraded.
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On December 12 2012 09:19 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 09:16 s3rp wrote:On December 12 2012 09:11 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 08:56 Breach_hu wrote:
Ultras right now can take out a larger army value terran army (bio + tanks) with a couple of vipers. Just saying. They are just wrecking everything on the ground. Have you tried testing this with Bio with upgrade medivacs? the heal rates alone combined with how bad 33% splash is(even more so factoring armor and Heal rates) reduces the ultralisk's effectiveness. I did it doesn't make a difference Ultras deal enough burst damage . The new medivacs do not heal throuh this. actually yes they do when upgraded.
Not they don't maybe pure Ultras but not when you combine it with Banelings / Lings and whatever you want.
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Uhhh... Pretty much every zerg is rushing to ultras right now, they are insanely strong against terran even without infestor or viper support. I play bio TvZ against high masters and GM opponents on beta.
So please, stop asking for buffs to extremely strong units if you have no idea what you're talking about.
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On December 12 2012 09:15 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 09:09 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 08:26 s3rp wrote:
Apparently you don't know the game because you sound like have no idea what the hell you're talking about. How strong do you think Ultras should be with the Larva mechanic and the relative fast speed they build in ? 600 HP with a even number Flat damage with upgrade scaling of +4 per upgrade, with 50% splash which would be: 36 Flat damage with +4 per melee upgrade Which would equal 48 damage at +3 attack and with 50% splash that would be 24 damage. Very reasonable for cost etc. Because think about it, the 1 unit that the ultralisk is attacking gets 100% damage that would mean that The units getting splashed are taking 50% damage. use logic man. And whats your exact reasoning for this ? Did you see them in use yet with the recent buff ? A equally upgraded Terran ground army already struggles to deal with them if they have some support.
I have seen them used, thats the thing.
This change to the ultralisk I suggested Suits the ultralisk well.
The ultralisk is a type of unit thats good when its infront of the army but its also a unit that needs support.
More HP will allow it to engage fights better and survive abit longer.
The improved damage/splash will allow it to be a big factor in battles they are in, and Zergs will finally have a reason to go ultralisk instead of broodlords.
So does it seem crazy? Yes, But whats crazier, creating a sequal to one of the most sucessful RTS's of all time or Making shure the game Is not only fun to play, but also Allows for alot of in game strategy, and success of its own.
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On December 12 2012 09:24 Bagi wrote:
Uhhh... Pretty much every zerg is rushing to ultras right now, they are insanely strong against terran even without infestor or viper support. I play bio TvZ against high masters and GM opponents on beta.
So please, stop asking for buffs to extremely strong units if you have no idea what you're talking about.
ok so you know they are rushing for ultralisk what does that mean that they are cutting in-return for getting a expensive higher tech unit?
Its a strategy game, weaknesses and patterns are always present.
If i didn't know what I was talking about then, why are you not seeing the weakness in rushing tier 3 units, and exploiting it?
Because If your playing BIO in TVZ, you most certanly have the tools to deal with it.
and hows can you forget about using battle hellions? don't you know they can be built in battle mode?
If they are spending the gas on heavy tech units, your going to need something that does AOE VS all of the lings that will be the mineral dump/army filler.
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On December 12 2012 09:28 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 09:15 s3rp wrote:On December 12 2012 09:09 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 08:26 s3rp wrote:
Apparently you don't know the game because you sound like have no idea what the hell you're talking about. How strong do you think Ultras should be with the Larva mechanic and the relative fast speed they build in ? 600 HP with a even number Flat damage with upgrade scaling of +4 per upgrade, with 50% splash which would be: 36 Flat damage with +4 per melee upgrade Which would equal 48 damage at +3 attack and with 50% splash that would be 24 damage. Very reasonable for cost etc. Because think about it, the 1 unit that the ultralisk is attacking gets 100% damage that would mean that The units getting splashed are taking 50% damage. use logic man. And whats your exact reasoning for this ? Did you see them in use yet with the recent buff ? A equally upgraded Terran ground army already struggles to deal with them if they have some support. I have seen them used, thats the thing. This change to the ultralisk I suggested Suits the ultralisk well. The ultralisk is a type of unit thats good when its infront of the army but its also a unit that needs support.
More HP will allow it to engage fights better and survive abit longer.The improved damage/splash will allow it to be a big factor in battles they are in, and Zergs will finally have a reason to go ultralisk instead of broodlords. So does it seem crazy? Yes, But whats crazier, creating a sequal to one of the most sucessful RTS's of all time or Making shure the game Is not only fun to play, but also Allows for alot of in game strategy, and success of its own.
With 5 Armor they already survive by far the longest of every ground unit against anything besides an army of Thors i guess.
And with the current buff the Ultralisk is already a great maybe even stronger alternative to Broodlords. Not to mention they're way way faster available. Nobody agrees with you not even the Zerg players , maybe you're wrong here ?
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On December 12 2012 09:23 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 09:19 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 09:16 s3rp wrote:On December 12 2012 09:11 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 08:56 Breach_hu wrote:
Ultras right now can take out a larger army value terran army (bio + tanks) with a couple of vipers. Just saying. They are just wrecking everything on the ground. Have you tried testing this with Bio with upgrade medivacs? the heal rates alone combined with how bad 33% splash is(even more so factoring armor and Heal rates) reduces the ultralisk's effectiveness. I did it doesn't make a difference Ultras deal enough burst damage . The new medivacs do not heal throuh this. actually yes they do when upgraded. Not they don't maybe pure Ultras but not when you combine it with Banelings / Lings and whatever you want.
Well Don't Battle hellions and splitting handle those quite effectively with medivac support?
You might not notice this right now but i can promise you in the future the battle hellion mode will be quite the main stay in TVZ.
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On December 12 2012 09:34 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 09:28 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 09:15 s3rp wrote:On December 12 2012 09:09 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 08:26 s3rp wrote:
Apparently you don't know the game because you sound like have no idea what the hell you're talking about. How strong do you think Ultras should be with the Larva mechanic and the relative fast speed they build in ? 600 HP with a even number Flat damage with upgrade scaling of +4 per upgrade, with 50% splash which would be: 36 Flat damage with +4 per melee upgrade Which would equal 48 damage at +3 attack and with 50% splash that would be 24 damage. Very reasonable for cost etc. Because think about it, the 1 unit that the ultralisk is attacking gets 100% damage that would mean that The units getting splashed are taking 50% damage. use logic man. And whats your exact reasoning for this ? Did you see them in use yet with the recent buff ? A equally upgraded Terran ground army already struggles to deal with them if they have some support. I have seen them used, thats the thing. This change to the ultralisk I suggested Suits the ultralisk well. The ultralisk is a type of unit thats good when its infront of the army but its also a unit that needs support.
More HP will allow it to engage fights better and survive abit longer.The improved damage/splash will allow it to be a big factor in battles they are in, and Zergs will finally have a reason to go ultralisk instead of broodlords. So does it seem crazy? Yes, But whats crazier, creating a sequal to one of the most sucessful RTS's of all time or Making shure the game Is not only fun to play, but also Allows for alot of in game strategy, and success of its own. With 5 Armor they already survive by far the longest of every ground unit against anything besides an army of Thors i guess. And with the current buff the Ultralisk is already a great maybe even stronger alternative to Broodlords. Not to mention they're way way faster available. Nobody agrees with you not even the Zerg players , maybe you're wrong here ?
And what if i am right? or would that shatter everything you've become so acustom to accepting?
and secondly are you really thinking that the placers race is depended on that little unit symbol ?
you should know those little units just tell you how many posts the person has made.
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No, what sounds crazy that you are buffing a perfectly balanced unit in every aspect because somehow it "suits them well".
I could understand if there was a trade-off, like you wanted to make the ultra a better tank but less damaging, but to buff a perfectly balanced (maybe even too strong atm) unit in every aspect is just madness. You don't even present proper arguments, just some generic bullshit about increasing strategy through "logic".Here's some strategy game weaknesses and patterns for you: with your ultralisks, a hive tech zerg would never lose a game again.
For your sake, I hope you are trolling.
Edit: That last post pretty much confirms that you are.
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On December 12 2012 09:34 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 09:23 s3rp wrote:On December 12 2012 09:19 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 09:16 s3rp wrote:On December 12 2012 09:11 Zergrusher wrote:On December 12 2012 08:56 Breach_hu wrote:
Ultras right now can take out a larger army value terran army (bio + tanks) with a couple of vipers. Just saying. They are just wrecking everything on the ground. Have you tried testing this with Bio with upgrade medivacs? the heal rates alone combined with how bad 33% splash is(even more so factoring armor and Heal rates) reduces the ultralisk's effectiveness. I did it doesn't make a difference Ultras deal enough burst damage . The new medivacs do not heal throuh this. actually yes they do when upgraded. Not they don't maybe pure Ultras but not when you combine it with Banelings / Lings and whatever you want. Well Don't Battle hellions and splitting handle those quite effectively with medivac support? You might not notice this right now but i can promise you in the future the battle hellion mode will be quite the main stay in TVZ.
Against Mech nobody will or should build Lings Nor should anyone build Ultras against a big amount of Thors because like Immortals they're the one ground unit of Terran that can deal with Ulras really well. If you don't like that too bad the expensive units have weakness to specific unit combination like they should.
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Are Reapers being used now? ;D Dont have the HotS Beta ;<
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I think Zergrusher needs to get off the forums and into a HotS custom so he can show us why the Ultras aren't strong enough right now.
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EPT
