EPTIt would have an easier time against zealots and archons, and i think against units like zerglings and marines would not be as OP as that...
[D] How to make Siege Tank good again? - Page 3
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
It would have an easier time against zealots and archons, and i think against units like zerglings and marines would not be as OP as that... | ||
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
Indeed. In PvP it's a beast and used all the time actually. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On November 11 2012 00:36 NeonFox wrote: I don't get all these threads about "reworking" the siege tank or medivac. Both are used, a lot, and are fine the way they are. Aside from the fact that a Protoss army can a-move into a perfectly positioned 200/200 mech army, and come out on top. No unit composition with only ground units should be able to win against a well positioned mech army. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1341 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794030301 TL,DR: buff sieged damage, nerf unsieged damage + increase siege/unsiege time. sieged tanks are now awesome even TvP while you have to leapfrog foreward because getting caught unsieged gets worse. | ||
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shizaep
Canada2920 Posts
I dunno if it would be broken or not, but maybe this option could be added to the SC2 seige tank. For one, because the damage range of the seige tank is greater than its' vision. Thus, you could tell a seige tank to target fire an area that's not in your vision but where you think the enemy army is. This would add some cool micro imho. Also, you could tell tanks to blindly target fire on high ground without having vision there. This was a tactic that was used in WC3 from time to time. I really loved WC3 and thought this was a really cool feature to the mortar team. I know SC2 is a different game so I'm not sure if that ability would really fit in here. Just throwing out something to think about. | ||
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infoB
Spain16 Posts
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theSAiNT
United States726 Posts
Oh, that's more like the BW tank? Well then, DB won't implement it. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On November 11 2012 00:52 StarscreamG1 wrote: +15 damage to non-armored units, Fusion Core upgrade. It would have an easier time against zealots and archons, and i think against units like zerglings and marines would not be as OP as that... Making the Marine viable in TvT, to stop Viking Tank was the main reason for the last damage nerf to the tank. and 50 -15 to light would solve the archon/queen problem. Zealots are more or less hard fixed by Hellbats. But I guess they want to keep their damage system all in the positives. And hope they won't nerf their attack mode as I really like this mode to be effective also. Personally I would love if they would add a special shot to increase the defensive ability, creating a voidzone of some sort. Little cost little channeling time so it is easy to dodge. Would not scale with the amount of tanks you have. So small groups of tanks would be considerably stronger with this, while large groups would only have the same benefit. But for now I am really curious on what Blizzard will change on the old units. But I guess they still have some work to do on the HotS ones. | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On November 11 2012 06:16 Prog455 wrote: Aside from the fact that a Protoss army can a-move into a perfectly positioned 200/200 mech army, and come out on top. No unit composition with only ground units should be able to win against a well positioned mech army. Uhhh, what? A ground army thats microd better damn sure should win against a well positioned mech army. I agree tanks right now are weak but too many terrans want them to be turned into god mode. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
On November 11 2012 08:37 Markwerf wrote: Tanks are really just fine as they are now, straight up buffing them to make them viable in TvP is a terrible move as that will break mech even more in TvZ and TvT. In those matches mech is already a must in HotS (it's just better than bio) and any buff to the tank will increase that problem basically. The tank doesn't need a general buff because it's good enough as is in 2 out of 3 terran matchups. It could use a buff in TvP if people are dead set on making mech viable there but there are tons of ways to go about that, the immortal could also just be changed for example as that is the actual problem the tank faces in TvP, for the rest they are about fine already. Actually, people seem to be heavily mistaken. It's not just immortals that are an issue for mech, it's the fact late game archons are so easy to warp in and they completely DESTROY mech due to the fact they do not die without EMPs. Getting an archon late game is a lot easier than getting a ghost/then enough energy for the required EMPs. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
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NonameAI
127 Posts
On November 10 2012 05:28 dgwow wrote: Hi guys, It seems to me that the siege tank is not a unit that sees much action anymore. It's been nerfed by blizzard to the point where we don't see terrible damage like we did in BW. I'd like to propose a change that would make the siege tank even more exciting to watch as a spectator and more viable in high level play. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zVdov.jpg) The mortar in WC3 was a unit that did lots of damage. However, the projectiles shot a bit too fast and they were not really dodgeable. However, if we rethink the concept of projectiles, I think we could make it work in SC2. And of course they would be dodgeable, so the micro factor would be there, however the radius would be large enough that it would not be too easy for even progamers if there were a lot of siege tanks attacking at the same time. In addition, the fact that the projectiles are dodgeable would make it so Blizzard would be ok with increasing the damage to a nice level. Video of the mortar team: What I propose is this: 1. Give the siege tank projectile weaponry 2. Make it do splash damage with a 2.0 radius 3. Give it a projectile speed of 6.25 4. Increase the projectile range of 17 in siege mode 5. Make the projectile damage equal to 70 within a 1.5 radius, and 40 damage for the outside 0.5 radius. 6. Give the projectiles a unit size equivalent to the battle hellion with a cannon shell-like design. I am sure that this would make the siege tank a more used and fun unit to watch, regardless of whether or not mech is used. Poll: Do you think the siege tank needs a change? Yes (80) No (12) 92 total votes Your vote: Do you think the siege tank needs a change? Poll: Do you like this idea? No (142) Yes (20) 162 total votes Your vote: Do you like this idea? Poll: What do YOU think would be the best change for siege tanks? Decrease supply to 2 (31) Research upgrade to siege mode to increase damage/negate shield armor (22) Screw tanks, make fungal growth a projectile! (9) Negate shield armor (3) Faster attack speed (3) Increase siege mode range (1) 69 total votes Your vote: What do YOU think would be the best change for siege tanks? (Vote): Negate shield armor Poll: What nerfs to the tank would you be willing to accept with a tank buff Slower siege mode transformation (44) Decreased attack speed in siege mode (3) Tank attack becomes a projectile (3) Increase siege mode range (0) 50 total votes Your vote: What nerfs to the tank would you be willing to accept with a tank buff (Vote): Slower siege mode transformation Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. Please share your thoughts! Also, since HOTS beta is the testing ground for reworking older units, if someone could please post this thread in the HOTS section of blizz forums I would appreciate it. I don't have a beta key! mmm... yes.. Not used vs zerg or terran or protoss at all... | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
On November 11 2012 06:24 Decendos wrote: bowder answered to this thread by a GM terran and i hope they do exactly what he suggested: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794030301 TL,DR: buff sieged damage, nerf unsieged damage + increase siege/unsiege time. sieged tanks are now awesome even TvP while you have to leapfrog foreward because getting caught unsieged gets worse. This is such a good suggestion. This is what I have been saying since WoL beta when they just nerfed tank damage a few times. Also hope they implement this suggestion. Might work well with spider mines to make well positioned mech scary. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On November 11 2012 06:24 Decendos wrote: bowder answered to this thread by a GM terran and i hope they do exactly what he suggested: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794030301 TL,DR: buff sieged damage, nerf unsieged damage + increase siege/unsiege time. sieged tanks are now awesome even TvP while you have to leapfrog foreward because getting caught unsieged gets worse. This wont make Tanks better, because that is basically turning them into a Turret. Against Zerg it is always a "mobility battle" and making the sieging and unsieging longer is a terrible idea. It is ALWAYS a question "can the Terran siege quickly enough"? Usually he cant. I am just now watching the G-Star Invitational HotS game between Marine King and Leenock and MKP uses Widow Mines en masse in advance positions against a Zerg with mass Swarm Hosts. MKP also has tanks but never sieges them, because the friendly fire would kill his own widow mines ... kinda stupid to make unsieged damage lower then. The REAL problem of the tanks is that any opposing infantry gets close enough too fast and in too big numbers so the tanks die "instantly" if they are sieged because each of them fires one shot (which doesnt kill the whole wave) and then begins to kill his friends with the second shot, because the opposing infantry is close enough. That is the real reason why Siege Tanks are terribly bad to use. "Leapfrogging forward" doesnt work in SC2, because you will be forced to spread out your forces too much and then the combined army of the opponent can either go around you OR kill your siege tanks off piece by piece without losing an equivalent amount. Making the Siege Tank deal so much damage that it destroys anything that gets close enough is a bad idea, because that will make the unit totally OP in any early situation with just two of them and a handful of opposing units. | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On November 11 2012 15:53 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: Tanks really aren't that bad They do decent damage sure it's not as high as BW but Tank contains are still a threat in PvT and They are almost used in every TvT and TvZ I don't really see them as underpowered in the slightest. Tanks have two problems: 1. They die almost instantly in engagements to masses of infantry and that is boring/underwhelming for a unit that is supposed to be TOUGH and LONG LASTING. Thus they have become a "throw away unit". [Often enough players never bother with repairing mech units, because they will only get one shot off anyways and the micro involved costs too much attention. SC2 is more about being able to (re)produce stuff fast enough.] 2. Siege Tanks are NOT affected by the Terran "production boost" - the Reactor - while most of the core units from other races and styles are. Since the tank is THE core unit that defines "mech" it is disadvantaged quite heavily. | ||
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