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When I was reading about how one of the biggest problem with mech is being ability to replace it (build it again), I was thinking about an upgrade idea that is similar to Thor's immortality protocol in the SP campaign.
Idea is that all non-reactorable mech units (no hellions and widow mines) have an upgrade called "Recycle". Recycle is a tech lab upgrade with maybe 150/150 mineral and gas cost with a research time of 80.
When a tank or thor gets destroyed, it leaves behind salvageable material (it disappears after like 20 seconds though).
All you need is a unit that isn't the *thor or tank itself (also flying units can pick it up too) to go near the salvageable material and it adds to your salvageable material count (there is one for tank and one for thor, there could be a UI indicator in the factory for this).
*This requirement doesn't have to be in. I just think it'd be weird to see players trying to pick up salvageable material with their own tanks and thors (like say, you have an army of thors, and the thor will end up recycling themselves if they're close to each other when they die).
Anyway, when you have *"2" salvageable material (again, there is one for tank and for thor), the next tank or thor built builds 2x faster (but costs the same).
*The reason why you need 2 is because it might be overpowered otherwise. This means if you lost 12 tanks, and can salvage them, you can build the next 6 tanks at 2x faster speed.
Alternatively you could just scrap out the whole "you have to have a unit nearby to collect the salvageable material" and just make it auto add (with a button or UI indicator on the factory) whenever a mech unit dies.
Also the numbers can be adjusted.
Summary of idea again (this is without the complicated "you have to pick up 'salvageable material part', if people like that, it can be kept in):
1. An upgrade called recycle that causes tanks and thors (which are the non-reactorable mech units) to add one "Recycle" counter (for the respective unit that died, you can't mix and match) to you (the amount will be displayed on the factory's command card).
2. When you have 2 Recycle counters, the next tank or thor (depending on which you have) will be built at 2x the speed.
The potential problem with this idea is that it makes mech less mech (since mech's weakness should be that it's harder to be rebuilt but it's strength should be that if you can keep mech up with the right positioning, it's more potent than bio). On the plus side though, it makes mech more flexible and doesn't cause mech to lose its identity that much (I mean, for every 2 tanks you lose, you can build the next 1 tank 2x faster, same with thors).
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To make mech work on PvT they will have to re do a lot of stuff immortals / archons just completely rape mech add storm and colossus how useless tanks range is in this game is and bang your whole 200 mech army just got crushed. The only time mech seems to work is when Protoss doesn't see it and terran is able to have a blue flame run by or doesn't protect his 3 bases from hellion run by.
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Tanks are fine tvz, but not tvp. Honestly I don't really know how they could buff tanks without making them to strong in tvz. I do wish they were viable vs protoss as it would be fun to see protosses armies just get obliterated by tanks again :D
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They should allow us to upgrade siege tank damage back to 75 in siege mode .
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On November 10 2012 10:30 Sawamura wrote:
They should allow us to upgrade siege tank damage back to 75 in siege mode .
Siege tanks never did 75 damage.
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The problem with TvP mech is protoss shields, specifically the Immortal and the Archon, Terran players just need to learn how to incorporate some ghost into their play, and bam, problem solved
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On November 10 2012 10:31 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 10:30 Sawamura wrote:
They should allow us to upgrade siege tank damage back to 75 in siege mode . Siege tanks never did 75 damage.
Their cool down was
Cooldown
37 (tank mode)
75 (siege mode
so far I always thought my siege tank always deal 75 damage but looking back on the stats in http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Siege_tank_(StarCraft) they deal 70 damage per splash .Anyway I would like to have my overpowered 70 damage back.
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i would like the siege tank to feel more like a siege unit. imo they should buff the damage and reduce the speed or the buildup time. and remove smartshooting-ai, it's such a stupid idea to give this to tanks in a game where units constantly clump up.
also siege mode tech would probably need a higher research time if the tank is buffed. btw i dont think that making it two supply would be justified, it's way to strong for a two supply unit.
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Specifically, the issue with mech is that the siege tank depends on front loaded damage. When it attacks zerg or terran bio this works well because they lack hp and can be quickly eliminated. So zerg and terran are terrified of entering a tank line because they know will get a ton of front-loaded damage.
With protoss it's different because so many toss units have so much hp. So protoss can safely enter a siege tank barrage and then because the siege tanks have a long cool-down, the protoss units can rip apart the tank line.
Generally speaking, units with a lot of hp de-emphasis positioning. A 200hp unit that attacks a siege line doing say 50 damage only loses a quarter of its health before engaging in battle compared to say a 100hp unit that loses half it's health. High hp and low damage is bad for positioning.
The fix is simple...give protoss units less hp to re-emphasis positioning (tricky) or better yet, give siege tanks an upgrade that lets them deal more damage to protoss units (good solution).
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On November 10 2012 10:41 Blackfeather wrote:
i would like the siege tank to feel more like a siege unit. imo they should buff the damage and reduce the speed or the buildup time. and remove smartshooting, it's such a stupid idea to give this to tanks.
also siege mode tech would probably need a higher research time if the tank is buffed. btw i dont think that making it two supply would be justified, it's way to strong for a two supply unit.
Well to counter the siege tank being too good for a two supply unit just check out the infestors man the spells on this unit is just too good in my opinion for it to be a two supply (probably not justified too). Fungal growth just kills everything it is casted on.
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On November 10 2012 10:27 blade55555 wrote:
Tanks are fine tvz, but not tvp. Honestly I don't really know how they could buff tanks without making them to strong in tvz. I do wish they were viable vs protoss as it would be fun to see protosses armies just get obliterated by tanks again :D
Honestly don't you think that tanks aren't a bit off in tvz as well? The only reason you build them when you go bio is because you need them against banelings and you can target infestors otherwise you would be better off just building pure MMM. With mech you need them against roaches but you don't really want more than 5-7 in your end game composition either. One of the big problems of TvZ isn't the end game army because in theory you could always build an equivalent terran army but in reality you won't be able to hold on until you reached that composition. I think one of the reasons for this is because tanks are just a tad too bad especially considering how hard you get punished for producing them.
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sorry slightly out of topic. One more thing i want to add about playing mech vs any race, it should be the late game ultimate composition that is possible to go toe to toe with z and P's. Yes mech is vialble vs Z but you can see how many times MVP had to use it as a timing push where he had to push to win or make major damage before the BL/infestors/corruptors ultimate composition is formed.
I don't mean that you should always get an auto win if you get the ultimate mech composition in the end, but at least it should have a 50/50 chance of winning when facing Z and P 200/200 army.
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I vote for buffing the tanks siege mode damage significantly, while increasing the mode switching time.
It would be stronger defensively, but offensively it would require more careful advancing.
Actually a tank mode damage nerf might be good too to force the importance of the siege.
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It just reminds me of how good wc3 actually was...
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Hum are we talking about the same unit that can one shot clustered infestor or baneling? Actually i think siege tank is fine as it is: it's not a no brainer unit despite the fact they auto attack, with splash and huge dmg (stackable) cause you have to put them sieged in the right place to make them effective.
I think the problem with terran is that they don't see how effectivetheir units are: remind me when terran started loosing cause they where thinking hellion harass couldn't do any dmg to zerg so they stopped building these units. The fact is that they force zerg to build tower, additionnal, queens, and to drone a little less, denied creeping: that was effective. Same thing with the period marauder disapeared of bio composition: they weren't there to tank anymore unmicroed gling or bane (taking the aggro) so terran started to whine about them loosing against "no brain zerg". Same with ultra greedy play, stopping making a PF on third and complaining about zergling harass (big lol).
You can't have plain stupid unit in you army compo, siege tank is more than a simple splash ranged auto-a unit , it needs the player to be clever and to place them sieged at the right place and the right moment. That force the opponnent to fight later, to take the fight perfectly (not a+click) etc..., this game is not all about range or dmg, it's about advantage you can't see with simple stats..
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You need to learn how to make a proper poll on TL. Your poll sounds too neutral and objective that is why everyone voted "no." It should be more like this:
Do you think the current super boring tanks should receive a change?
A. No. I like boring and stale matchups and am afraid of change.
or
B. Yes. The tank needs to be changed.
That is how you get the poll results to look like you want them.
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You know how goofy it would look to have bunch a battllhellion sized projectiles flying through the air? This is a stupid idea.
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How about reintroducing overkill by having a delay between the attack animation and the moment damage is dealt. Then, buff damage accordingly.
A return to a 2 supply tank would also be pretty interesting, though I would expect several nerfs to compensate.
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decrease siege time to 3 sec like in BW, and make them do max damage to shields.
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I don't get all these threads about "reworking" the siege tank or medivac. Both are used, a lot, and are fine the way they are.
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EPT
