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On October 24 2012 07:32 kcdc wrote:
Now imagine that same fight but give Zerg some infestors or some baneling bombs. Now Zerg has a way to hit your sentries, and since you can't hide behind forcefields to make your army invincible, his 200 food army is going to rock your 120 food army no matter what you do. Whoops, Zerg made 4 infestors, you lose.
Imagine a world where someone has clearly out-teched you (overlords with drop and presumably speed and infestors compared to sentries, immortals and stalkers) and out macroed you (I'm aware of zerg midgame food spike but this is unreal) and you have to see a defeat screen. Balance doesn't always mean everyone has equal chances of winning at all times, and in some situations there comes a point where you've already lost you just haven't typed "gg" yet
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On October 24 2012 11:27 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 11:19 FabledIntegral wrote:On October 24 2012 11:14 kcdc wrote:On October 24 2012 11:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On October 24 2012 10:46 kcdc wrote:
Certain types of Protoss offense are nerfed pretty hard by swapping out forcefield for fortify. Colossi, in particular, become weaker against both Terran and Zerg.
And I really don't think 100/25 would fuck ZvT vs mech. Mech isn't that scary until Terran has a large (140+) army with upgrades, at which point Z will be able to max out on roaches whether they cost 75/25 or 100/25. And don't forget that Z gets swarm hosts which I expect will prove powerful against mech since mech won't be fast enough to chase them down. (Sort of like lurkers slowing down a Terran push) Like all the changes, the 100/25 roach cost would need testing, but I really don't think it's unworkable.
As I see it, each race gets something they want:
Zerg never has to see an immortal-sentry all-in again. They get can pressure Protoss in the midgame without getting cut off by forcefields. Archon toilet is out of the game. Zerglings are more efficient against marines.
Terran gets the opportunity to move up a ramp against Protoss in the early game without having their retreat blocked. They also get the ability to micro more against infestors. Marines are a little less vulnerable to splash damage.
Protoss gets to build less sentries which means more other stuff. They get a defensive mechanic that is less dependent on tight chokes which means more flexibility for expansions. They also get to fight against slightly less cost-efficient roaches and some improved late-game options to deal with broodlords. Swarm hosts don't come out in time/large enough numbers to stop timing attacks. They are not in any way the equivalent of BL's, simply due to the much longer cooldown. If you want to stop Hellion/Thor timing attacks, you need mass roach, there is no other alternative, unless you can try to gimmicky ling/infestor surround with Neural. You highly underestimate how much of a sink in minerals roaches are. It would be an overwhelmingly negative effect. What attack timings are you thinking of? It seems like Zerg can currently max out on roaches in ZvT around 14 minutes. If they cost 25 minerals more, I suspect the max would be delayed by about 30 seconds. Would that be game-breaking? I'm not sure. But it's important to note that roach production in WoL is usually limited not by cost, but by the supply cap. 30 seconds? It must be more than that. And it's not like you can assume they build all the roaches at once. They are building them constantly, using them to remax, etc. I'm referring to the 3base timing that is meant to hit before BL. Let's say Z hits the 200 supply cap with 70 drones, 5 queens, 40 zerglings and 40 roaches. Each roach costs 25 minerals extra, so that max out costs 1000 minerals more than before. With 70 drones on 3 bases, Z's mineral income will be about 2200-2500 per minute. With those numbers, you're looking at 24-30 seconds extra. The game scenario is going to be a little more complicated than that math of course--maybe those early 5 roaches to defend BFH cost a little more which delays your 4th hatchery a little which leads to a greater delay down the road. It's tough to say exactly how it would play out, but I don't think it would necessarily be broken. You can always tweak the numbers down the road. My key point is that if you remove forcefield, you have to nerf roaches a little. Maybe that means thors need a small nerf too. It's tough to say.
You absolutely can't assume that 1,000 minerals more would mean 24-30 seconds. It just doesn't work like that, even remotely. You would have much more than 40 roaches as well. Not to mention that 30 seconds would be huge regardless with a timing attack that you're barely defending anyways. At all points of equal time you're going to be more vulnerable to having less roaches on the field, not just at the time a timing attack would hit.
You're also at 180 supply with your scenario, but I know what you meant  .
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On October 24 2012 11:33 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 11:31 kcdc wrote:On October 24 2012 11:23 JayceeSC wrote:
You can defend a stim all-in without Sentries??? I've been doing it since the WoL beta, back when maps were tiny and stim hit much earlier. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142887When Terran aggression was nerfed to the ground, I started getting sentries as a greedy play. You don't need them unless T goes for medivacs. How do you prevent kiting of your zealots without FF?
You don't. Your zealots just act as tank while your stalkers and stim deal damage. You have 1.5 extra rounds of units (1 from rush distance, .5 WG mechanic giving units at the start of production cycle), so you wind up having more stuff than Terran in the fight even tho he's all-in against your expansion. Having a ramp for first shot also helps ensure you deal damage. It's much easier now than it was when maps didn't give you ramps outside your natural and spawned you 15 feet from your opponent.
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On October 24 2012 11:36 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 11:27 kcdc wrote:On October 24 2012 11:19 FabledIntegral wrote:On October 24 2012 11:14 kcdc wrote:On October 24 2012 11:09 FabledIntegral wrote:On October 24 2012 10:46 kcdc wrote:
Certain types of Protoss offense are nerfed pretty hard by swapping out forcefield for fortify. Colossi, in particular, become weaker against both Terran and Zerg.
And I really don't think 100/25 would fuck ZvT vs mech. Mech isn't that scary until Terran has a large (140+) army with upgrades, at which point Z will be able to max out on roaches whether they cost 75/25 or 100/25. And don't forget that Z gets swarm hosts which I expect will prove powerful against mech since mech won't be fast enough to chase them down. (Sort of like lurkers slowing down a Terran push) Like all the changes, the 100/25 roach cost would need testing, but I really don't think it's unworkable.
As I see it, each race gets something they want:
Zerg never has to see an immortal-sentry all-in again. They get can pressure Protoss in the midgame without getting cut off by forcefields. Archon toilet is out of the game. Zerglings are more efficient against marines.
Terran gets the opportunity to move up a ramp against Protoss in the early game without having their retreat blocked. They also get the ability to micro more against infestors. Marines are a little less vulnerable to splash damage.
Protoss gets to build less sentries which means more other stuff. They get a defensive mechanic that is less dependent on tight chokes which means more flexibility for expansions. They also get to fight against slightly less cost-efficient roaches and some improved late-game options to deal with broodlords. Swarm hosts don't come out in time/large enough numbers to stop timing attacks. They are not in any way the equivalent of BL's, simply due to the much longer cooldown. If you want to stop Hellion/Thor timing attacks, you need mass roach, there is no other alternative, unless you can try to gimmicky ling/infestor surround with Neural. You highly underestimate how much of a sink in minerals roaches are. It would be an overwhelmingly negative effect. What attack timings are you thinking of? It seems like Zerg can currently max out on roaches in ZvT around 14 minutes. If they cost 25 minerals more, I suspect the max would be delayed by about 30 seconds. Would that be game-breaking? I'm not sure. But it's important to note that roach production in WoL is usually limited not by cost, but by the supply cap. 30 seconds? It must be more than that. And it's not like you can assume they build all the roaches at once. They are building them constantly, using them to remax, etc. I'm referring to the 3base timing that is meant to hit before BL. Let's say Z hits the 200 supply cap with 70 drones, 5 queens, 40 zerglings and 40 roaches. Each roach costs 25 minerals extra, so that max out costs 1000 minerals more than before. With 70 drones on 3 bases, Z's mineral income will be about 2200-2500 per minute. With those numbers, you're looking at 24-30 seconds extra. The game scenario is going to be a little more complicated than that math of course--maybe those early 5 roaches to defend BFH cost a little more which delays your 4th hatchery a little which leads to a greater delay down the road. It's tough to say exactly how it would play out, but I don't think it would necessarily be broken. You can always tweak the numbers down the road. My key point is that if you remove forcefield, you have to nerf roaches a little. Maybe that means thors need a small nerf too. It's tough to say. You absolutely can't assume that 1,000 minerals more would mean 24-30 seconds. It just doesn't work like that, even remotely. You would have much more than 40 roaches as well. Not to mention that 30 seconds would be huge regardless with a timing attack that you're barely defending anyways. At all points of equal time you're going to be more vulnerable to having less roaches on the field, not just at the time a timing attack would hit. You're also at 180 supply with your scenario, but I know what you meant .
Whoops, 50 roaches. Didn't add that up right--I think I was counting the zerglings as 1 supply or something. And yes, it's not as simple as just dividing the added cost by the time it takes you to get that cost because other aspects of the economy will change. But 30-45 seconds seems like a reasonable ballpark. And yes, that could be a big deal. But it might also not be a big deal because, as I said before, mid-game roach production in WoL is usually limited by the supply cap rather than mineral cost. It would be something to watch for.
The alternative to nerfing roaches is not removing forcefields or giving the sentry some other skill that's really good vs roaches. But WoL roaches are ridiculous for cost, so I think it makes sense to bring their cost more in line with their combat value.
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On October 24 2012 11:33 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 11:31 kcdc wrote:On October 24 2012 11:23 JayceeSC wrote:
You can defend a stim all-in without Sentries??? I've been doing it since the WoL beta, back when maps were tiny and stim hit much earlier. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142887When Terran aggression was nerfed to the ground, I started getting sentries as a greedy play. You don't need them unless T goes for medivacs. How do you prevent kiting of your zealots without FF?
You go heavy stalker.
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You go heavy stalker. I actually think you want more 50/50 of Zealots/Stalkers. Otherwise, the Stalkers will die very quickly and end up getting less shots off.
I'm still not sure if it is possible to hold (with SCVs in the fight). Currently, I feel Xel Naga Caverns would be a free win as T if there was no Sentry to hold the ramp.
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Carriers are somewhat counter to fungal. We need some more fungal killing units to toss and terran.
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On October 24 2012 11:35 RoninShogun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 07:32 kcdc wrote:
Now imagine that same fight but give Zerg some infestors or some baneling bombs. Now Zerg has a way to hit your sentries, and since you can't hide behind forcefields to make your army invincible, his 200 food army is going to rock your 120 food army no matter what you do. Whoops, Zerg made 4 infestors, you lose.
Imagine a world where someone has clearly out-teched you (overlords with drop and presumably speed and infestors compared to sentries, immortals and stalkers) and out macroed you (I'm aware of zerg midgame food spike but this is unreal) and you have to see a defeat screen. Balance doesn't always mean everyone has equal chances of winning at all times, and in some situations there comes a point where you've already lost you just haven't typed "gg" yet
200 food to 120 food is actually pretty standard if Z mass produces roaches and zerglings, but you're right, in that case they won't have infestors or baneling drops.
But my point isn't that Zerg with a big army and the right tech doesn't deserve to win--my point is that the power of forcefields swings so wildly based on the opponent's tech. If Zerg doesn't have 4 infestors, that 120 supply Protoss army beats the Zerg 200 supply army without taking any losses. With 4 infestors, the Zerg wins with almost no losses. That's too sharp of a swing IMO. As a Protoss, I don't like having to invest 800 early gas into 8 sentries that will be completely useless as soon as Z gets their tech out. And I know Zergs don't like that Protoss can invest 800 gas into sentries that completely negate their army no matter how much stuff they have until they have their tech out.
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Isn't it pretty obvious just by a tiny bit of thinking that these ideas are nonsense?
1. Invulnerable buildings are ridiculously abusive. You can no longer snipe nexus, and wrt to mech, it's going to be that much harder to push side bases with seals. And how do you know that 10 aoe dmg (with some given attack speed) is going to be enough?
Also more DPS != less damage taken wrt to how confrontations play out. It could easily be the case that regardless of how much DPS sentries give, a stimmed ball will crunch through gateway army. It's not the same as forcefielding out a bio army. You'd have to explore the impact on all early game timings.
2. Fungal/marine change also stupid. First, less clumped marines = less DPS in many positions. The entire game and damage of ALL units is at least partially balanced against the DPS marines have at a certain density. By exploding the size of the marine, I bet you will find that T is actually LESS potent with more surface area exposed to cheap unit DPS. As long there is enough caster to coat the T army, which at least vs Z there will ALWAYS be, then this is a straight nerf to T combat performance.
I think there are massive gaps in your logic, and this OP needs to be paired with UMS demonstration of its claims.
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Forcefield should be researchable and arrive later at a time when both sides have access to massive units. Also, HotS should have provided zerg a second massive unit that comes in a little earlier and/or at a little less investment cost than ultras. I agree that roach should be increased in cost OR reduced in HP drastically and corresponding supply reduced to 1.
I think one thing that no one is considering is that one of the reasons BL/Infestor even works is because of how easy it is for zerg to collect massive amounts of resources and bases. If you reduce the power of roaches early (and also make FF available only later to correspond), its going to be a lot harder for zerg to stop protoss pushes and get up on their 4 - 5 bases in the mid game so often.
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You need to understand that right now the high DPS of marine is crucial to trading effectively with Zerg. It ALLOWS T to trade in spite of getting fungaled. Because in the time it takes for fungal to kill the T army, T will have output significant DPS to trade vs Z.
It doesn't matter whether Z has 8 or 16 infestors, with a ground based army, he still won't kill the T army in time without having to trade. But the moment that you reduce marine DPS and increase surface area, Z STILL has plenty of infestors to coat everything, but now you don't have enough concentrated DPS to trade effectively.
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On October 24 2012 12:42 architecture wrote:
1. Invulnerable buildings are ridiculously abusive. You can no longer snipe nexus, and wrt to mech, it's going to be that much harder to push side bases with seals. And how do you know that 10 aoe dmg (with some given attack speed) is going to be enough?
Preventing the sniping of buildings is exactly the point. Kill the probes or a different building. You'll still be able to do damage.
It could easily be the case that regardless of how much DPS sentries give, a stimmed ball will crunch through gateway army. It's not the same as forcefielding out a bio army. You'd have to explore the impact on all early game timings.
. . .
By exploding the size of the marine, I bet you will find that T is actually LESS potent with more surface area exposed to cheap unit DPS.
These two points work against each other. And yes, increasing the size of the marine is designed to make it worse against zealots and zerglings. That's half of the goal for the change, the other half being making marines more resilient against splash damage. As for whether stimmed marine timings would still rip through gateway units, they might, but I'm guessing that it wouldn't be too bad. Give me purify, fortify, guardian shield and 10 zealots, and I'll give you 40 dead marines.
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I agree somewhat with the problems you've pointed out, but disagree with the solutions.
Forcefields are a very important part to all match ups and for instance removing them means that Zergling runbys would decimate Protoss. Now you'll say "but I replaced it with fortify!" so you are saying that I still need to build gas heavy Sentries that now can only be used for defense instead of defense and offense as Forcefield can be used?
Your proposed solution makes Protoss even more turtley in PvZ and PvT! Now Protoss can't even venture beyond their buildings.
This "fortify" spell would also be completely broken offensively (I guess I was wrong, it can be used offensively). Step 1 - Build Warp Prisms and load in Sentries and Probes. Step 2 - Fly to enemy base. Step 3 - Drop units, build structures (using Warp Prism for power) in and behind mineral line and immediately cast fortify on them. Step 4 - Win, structures don't need to be completed to gain the spell, cancel them before completion, remake structures and cast more Fortify. Heck, bring Probes and Warp Prism along with your army and do the same thing while attacking your opponents front. This assumes it can't be used on Pylons, which also means you can't have Pylons in walls vs Zerg, but at least prevents annoying Probe/Sentry rushes early.
Fungal growth reducing attack speed would destroy the ability of the units it hits to do sufficient damage. Zerg would build just a few Infestors and they would have such a massive effect on the game. 30% is gigantic, remember that Guardian Shield reduces damage by 2, and that is 33% of an unupgraded Marine's damage. Now we are talking 30% off every unit that is hit by Fungal. That drops the DPS of an Immortal by 10 damage per second (from 34 to 24), that is massive.
I agree that Vortex is dumb and needs to be replaced, however mass Corrupter will dominate Protoss then, killing all air units and any Colossus, leaving the Protoss with a force of units that will be vulnerable to Roach/Ling unless you have a lot of gas in Sentries or many Immortals and Archons. And said force would be facing Broods and Infestors, and with Blink still being stopped by Fungal, you'll have no way to kill off the Broods.
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On October 24 2012 13:02 BronzeKnee wrote:
I agree somewhat with the problems you've pointed out, but disagree with the solutions.
Forcefields are a very important part to all match ups and removing them means that Zergling runbys would decimate Protoss. Now you'll say "but I replaced it with fortify!" so you are saying that I still need to build gas heavy Sentries that now can only be used for defense instead of defense and offense as Forcefield can be used?
Your proposed solution makes Protoss even more turtley! Now Protoss can't even venture beyond their buildings.
Fungal growth reducing attack speed would destroy the ability of the units it hits to do sufficient damage. Zerg would build just a few Infestors and they would have such a massive effect on the game. 30% is gigantic, remember that Guardian Shield reduces damage by 2, and that is 33% of an unupgraded Marine's damage. Now we are talking 30% off every unit that is hit by Fungal. That drops the DPS of an Immortal by 10 damage per second (from 34 to 24), that is massive.
I agree that Vortex is dumb and needs to be replaced, however mass Corrupter will dominate Protoss then, and it needs to be addressed.
You're right--30% is probably too much. 10% might be better. I'd be fine with just a movement speed slow rather than a root, but I didn't want all the Zergs to lose their shit. As for fortify making Protoss more turtly than forcefield does, I think it would have the opposite effect. With the exception of a few all-ins, sentries with forcefield are already maximally turtly. You need 6+ sentries to get a proper forcefield bank against Zerg, and once you've made that investment, you simply don't move out on the map and risk losing them until you're at 150+ supply. With fortify, you'll be able to get the desired defensive effect with fewer sentries, which means you'll have more other stuff. That other stuff will be more capable of early offense.
This "fortify" spell would also be completely broken offensively. Step 1 - Build Warp Prisms and load in Sentries and Probes. Step 2 - Fly to enemy base. Step 3 - Drop units, build structures (using Warp Prism for power) behind mineral lines and immediately cast fortify on them - Step 4, Win, structures don't need to be completed to gain the spell.
The defensive steps would be:
Step 1 - Try to deny warp prism from reaching mineral line
Step 2 - Kill the probes before they make too many pylons
Step 3 - Kill the sentries (which are not at all invulnerable)
Step 4 - Micro away injured workers every 5 seconds.
The attack only deals 10 damage every 5 seconds, so it takes 4 shots (20 seconds) to kill a probe and 5 shots (25 seconds) to kill a drone or an SCV. This attack seems pretty darn defendable. Maybe 20 second duration would be better, but a 2 DPS attack just don't sound very scary offensively.
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I use Forcefields offensively a lot when I play, but then again I style myself after Hwangsin. I think the bigger issue is that Protoss either has to go all-in when they attack early, or they can't attack.
I thought Fortify did AOE damage? A few invulnerable structures with that kind of DPS would deny mining. So you need four or five structures, which you can throw down fast, and then you can kill multiple workers (they tend to clump big time) every 5 seconds.
And this would be great for pushing vs a Zergling heavy player early.
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On October 24 2012 13:13 BronzeKnee wrote:
I use Forcefields offensively a lot when I play, but then again I style myself after Hwangsin. I think the bigger issue is that Protoss either has to go all-in when they attack early, or can't attack.
I thought Fortify did AOE damage? A few invulnerable structures with that kind of DPS would deny mining. So you need four structures, you can throw them down fast, and then you can kill multiple workers every 5 seconds.
And this would be great for pushing vs a Zergling heavy player early.
It would slow mining, sure. But the attacker would have lost a warp prism, 3 sentries, 2 probes, and lost or cancelled 2+ buildings. That's not a winning strategy, so I doubt we'd see it. Maybe if you just did the drop, started 2 buildings, executed a quick cast and ran out. Then the effect would be an entomb more or less. Still a pretty big risk for a weak effect.
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On October 24 2012 13:23 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 13:13 BronzeKnee wrote:
I use Forcefields offensively a lot when I play, but then again I style myself after Hwangsin. I think the bigger issue is that Protoss either has to go all-in when they attack early, or can't attack.
I thought Fortify did AOE damage? A few invulnerable structures with that kind of DPS would deny mining. So you need four structures, you can throw them down fast, and then you can kill multiple workers every 5 seconds.
And this would be great for pushing vs a Zergling heavy player early. It would slow mining, sure. But the attacker would have lost a warp prism, 3 sentries, 2 probes, and lost or cancelled 2+ buildings. That's not a winning strategy, so I doubt we'd see it.
I suppose it could be balanced properly. I'd still much rather see a buff to basic Protoss units make up for the loss of Forcefields than some other spell. The issue then is Warp Gate, and honestly, I really like the Warp Gate mechanic.
Maybe you can explain more why you think fortify won't make the game more turtley. The Sentry now can be used for both defense and offense, with this new spell, it will be strictly a defensive unit, except for having one or at maximum two offensively for Guardian Shield. Forcefield is what allows Protoss to move out on the map in the midgame if they are going to attack. Two base Immortal timings vs Zerg, Colossus timings vs Terran and Zerg, ect all depend on the Forcefield. Without them, you have no way of creating any distance, and the quick moving Roaches and Marauders would eat up your power units (Protoss depends wholey on a few powerful units to give power to the attack, as their Gateway units are inferior to the Zerg and Terran counterparts at that stage of the game).
Because there in no major buff to any basic Protoss unit then, nothing except the removal of Forcefield has changed offensively. So I guess you'll have a bit more gas to spend on units, but where does it go? Immortals are literally double the cost of the Stalker, so it isn't like the Immortal all-in is killing for gas, except for the Sentries. In the Colossus all-in it is basically the same, though Colossus are a bit more gas heavy. Maybe you can hit the timing quicker because you'll need less gas, but the timings are so dependent on your ability to Forcefield that I don't think the extra damage units of a few power units or a quicker timing is going to make up for the loss of Forcefields offensively, and you haven't listed any changes to that would really increase the power of mid-game Protoss attacks, except to say that we now have more gas. I believe that extra gas will end up going to Tech, which means Protoss will turtle to end game as many do now, but our timing attacks will be even less powerful and it will be predictable that Protoss is likely to turtle to end game.
Honestly, I guess I don't think Forcefields or Fungal are that bad. Do they have an overall negative effect on the game? Yes, they are too powerful. But they cover up holes in both races that really aren't easy to patch, and I think we'll need a lot more changes in order to balance it out, and it could mean removing things that make each race unique.
Vortex is just bad though, and I have a lot of ideas on how to remove it. I'm going to post a big thread on it and several other issues tomorrow.
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On October 24 2012 12:29 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 11:35 RoninShogun wrote:On October 24 2012 07:32 kcdc wrote:
Now imagine that same fight but give Zerg some infestors or some baneling bombs. Now Zerg has a way to hit your sentries, and since you can't hide behind forcefields to make your army invincible, his 200 food army is going to rock your 120 food army no matter what you do. Whoops, Zerg made 4 infestors, you lose.
Imagine a world where someone has clearly out-teched you (overlords with drop and presumably speed and infestors compared to sentries, immortals and stalkers) and out macroed you (I'm aware of zerg midgame food spike but this is unreal) and you have to see a defeat screen. Balance doesn't always mean everyone has equal chances of winning at all times, and in some situations there comes a point where you've already lost you just haven't typed "gg" yet 200 food to 120 food is actually pretty standard if Z mass produces roaches and zerglings, but you're right, in that case they won't have infestors or baneling drops. But my point isn't that Zerg with a big army and the right tech doesn't deserve to win--my point is that the power of forcefields swings so wildly based on the opponent's tech. If Zerg doesn't have 4 infestors, that 120 supply Protoss army beats the Zerg 200 supply army without taking any losses. With 4 infestors, the Zerg wins with almost no losses. That's too sharp of a swing IMO. As a Protoss, I don't like having to invest 800 early gas into 8 sentries that will be completely useless as soon as Z gets their tech out. And I know Zergs don't like that Protoss can invest 800 gas into sentries that completely negate their army no matter how much stuff they have until they have their tech out.
Why is it a sharp swing? That's like saying if Protoss had 2+ colossi.... it's kinda irrelevant.
Supply counts are wholly irrelevant. What depends if fighting viability.
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I still don't like fortify. It just doesn't seem interesting to me, and it's disappointing that it's a purely defensive spell. I don't like the idea of a standard unit that's designed to babysit buildings. Only the queen and MSC make sense in that role. It would be better if the spell could be used in non-cheesy offense as well.
Perhaps: remove the damage aura, shut the structure down while it's active, make it castable on enemy structures as well.
That way, you could use it defensively to prevent snipes or shore up walls, and offensively to temporarily disable static defense/detectors.
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EPT
