EPTi Dustin Browder think he is smartest person and he know what is good or not.. he dont understend the game what is wrong with it...
He is so RETARDED !!!!!
No fix to clumpy unit movement - Page 14
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bole
Serbia164 Posts
i Dustin Browder think he is smartest person and he know what is good or not.. he dont understend the game what is wrong with it... He is so RETARDED !!!!! | ||
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LOLingBuddha
Netherlands697 Posts
On November 19 2012 01:17 bole wrote: I will not by HOTS if they dont change pathing... its so retarded and in WC3 you Have option to chose CLUMP PATHING OR SPREAD OUT PATHING.... i Dustin Browder think he is smartest person and he know what is good or not.. he dont understend the game what is wrong with it... He is so RETARDED !!!!! I didnt play much of WC3 but i didnt know they had that option. seeing as they did have the option, what mode did the user opt for most? | ||
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dragonsuper
Liechtenstein222 Posts
On November 19 2012 01:38 LOLingBuddha wrote: I didnt play much of WC3 but i didnt know they had that option. seeing as they did have the option, what mode did the user opt for most? he came from C&C generals... one of the worst game of the series... what you expect ? B | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On November 19 2012 01:38 LOLingBuddha wrote: I didnt play much of WC3 but i didnt know they had that option. seeing as they did have the option, what mode did the user opt for most? most people switched between the two depending on the situation and frankly it wasn't all that great. If you don't want your units to clump then spread them out, it actually takes skill to do it right.... its another thing that seperates the good from the bad and as the game develops more and more pros are making decisions to either stay clumped or not. Adding a button that will do it for you is actually removing skill from the game. And as Dustin says, in many situations you want your units clumped for highest DPS density. They've fooled around with the tweak in the videos and found that it made little difference because you don't tend to make 1 a-click across the map but many little ones, which makes the units clump up again. Sorry but i'm all for clumping and making spreading out a skill needed rather than having them spread out by default and the game needing less micro. Army control is what separates skill levels, when you play someone 2 leagues lower you win not by superior macro but by being more efficient with your army. If your opponent can click a button that spreads out his army then your superior abilities are somewhat negated | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3471 Posts
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
On November 18 2012 23:53 SarcasmMonster wrote: Frodan interviewing Browder at WCS I'm getting the impression they ONLY tested the implementation from the original BNet thread's OP, and never tried the other plausible implementations. Interesting. They don't seem to believe that there is a fundamental problem with unit movement and are therefore not pursuing it with as much vigor as they should be. If they believed that this was a true problem with the game, they wouldn't just be checking it off a list of community concerns ("oh they want this? it doesnt work afterall? ok. Let's just stop wasting our time go back to designing the new units now"). I dont see them pursuing different solutions to this concern: they aren't reading the forums, they aren't familiar with the root of the complaint, which is that armies are too dense and move around too easily, ensuring that armies are always in the optimal formation, eliminating defenders advantage, making fights short and difficult to spectate. Most importantly, they don't seem to be testing new solutions to this constantly. Or if they are aware of our concerns and actually understand them, they're afraid that they dont have the time/resources to make a thorough investigation, or more likely, that they are taking a risk-averse approach to SC2 balance, which is that anything uncertain is bad, hence how most of the new units (especially toss) are out of the way and sort of fit in at the edges instead of reinventing how the races work. | ||
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DanLee
Canada316 Posts
On October 24 2012 02:20 Zoltan wrote: I just wanna go ahead and say, Fuck you, Dustin Dooshbag Browder. WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT If the units stay in formation, well then they stay in formation! well Mr. Fuckbrowder, I'm not a pro. I'm just a masters league dude with 80 apm. Help me by giving me a way that doesn't take 10 actions to spread my 8 marines, or to unclump my vikigns so i dont lose to ONE fungal growth. Or let me watch a game that looks awesome, and not like a big moving pile of i dont know what + Show Spoiler + shit Seriously fuck you Dustin Browder. Fuck you. User was warned for this post So you want to just chill out in masters without having to have any mechanical skill whatsoever? Sounds like a good idea, just for that I hope Dustin Browder makes it so medivacs don't autocast heal. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On November 19 2012 02:15 emythrel wrote: Sorry but i'm all for clumping and making spreading out a skill needed rather than having them spread out by default and the game needing less micro. Army control is what separates skill levels, when you play someone 2 leagues lower you win not by superior macro but by being more efficient with your army. If your opponent can click a button that spreads out his army then your superior abilities are somewhat negated Thats okay man. No need to apologize for being wrong. Seriously tho, its undeniably true that spreading your healthbars takes a lot of skill, thats not the issue. The thing is that if they fixed the clumping and made the movement more spread out, it would take even more skill to make your units work efficiently. And no I will not explain why that is the case for the 70th time, a lot of people have already explained thoroughly why. Basically this way we would get day 9's frisbees rather than balls we have now if you know the reference. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
Actually, if the AI didn't interfere with movement we could see much more interesting micro, because players would actually take the time to make cool, formations / tactics. As it is now, no one will bother spending 15s putting zealots at front in a perfect line followed by sentries, followed by stalkers, like we would see in a middle-ages battle with archers, spearmen, etc, because as soon as they click to move the units start to move stupidly with disregard to whatever their relative positions, and all that hard work goes to waste. Keep being illuded if you think auto clumping is actually doing good to this game. | ||
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Keilkan
Denmark67 Posts
The reason why speedlings trade so extremely poorly against a ball of marines atm is exactly that: It's a ball! The surface area is extremely low, yet that is not the main thing. A lot of the marines will be shooting the same speedling at the same time! In effect this means that the DPS from the Zerglings drop insanely as they die off relatively quickly. The tradeoff is that a few banelings get in there and it will be a complete massacre. If Terran spreads out more and the Zerglings spread out more, they will not be target fired to the same extent, and their uptime and thus damage will be better. Either Banelings will be able to clean up a marine ball, or Zerglings will be more effective against it. I don't see how that can be a voice of concern, unless the spreading would be made so huge that zerglings are just more effective than banelings. ( Which with proper splitting is already the case. Yet you need the banelings to force the terran to split, so your Zerglings gain their efficiency, yadda yadda. ) | ||
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bole
Serbia164 Posts
I didnt play much of WC3 but i didnt know they had that option. seeing as they did have the option, what mode did the user opt for most? he came from C&C generals... one of the worst game of the series... what you expect ? B Dustin Browder is noob for E SPORTS games he dont know what is micro what is macro excetera.... I still play WC3 TFT and its better game then SC2 skill wise ... simply amount of gameplay (micro) and staff u need to pull out to win a game cant compare WC3 vs SC2 .... SC2 is good macro game (you need a lot of skill to build your army and base ) But WC3 is 10 time bather when ARMIES come and colapse When armies Are FIGHT each other... Watch some WC3 games how intense they are.....every unite is important like in SC BW was... but Dustin Browder dont get it.... He is C&C retard who dont care he wont to made many from noob ppl and ppl who dont know what Blizz games are... Pathing is First problem ...Secund problem (because there is no micro ) is HARD COUNTERS A MOVE UNITES ...Third problem is MAPS... Because of 8 min 2 ghas in each base there is no little bettles in beginning of game( so no micro) ..and then ppl sit on 2 base 3 base till get 200 pop army ...BALL ARMY.... | ||
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MikeMM
Russian Federation221 Posts
But unfortunately Dustin Browder decided he was a genius and created a whole different game which is IMHO by far worse than BW for spectators. | ||
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MikeMM
Russian Federation221 Posts
On November 19 2012 02:15 emythrel wrote: And as Dustin says, in many situations you want your units clumped for highest DPS density. They've fooled around with the tweak in the videos and found that it made little difference because you don't tend to make 1 a-click across the map but many little ones, which makes the units clump up again. Sorry but i'm all for clumping and making spreading out a skill needed rather than having them spread out by default and the game needing less micro. Army control is what separates skill levels, when you play someone 2 leagues lower you win not by superior macro but by being more efficient with your army. If your opponent can click a button that spreads out his army then your superior abilities are somewhat negated What is so interesting in the game in which almost only micro is spreading units? In BW and WC3 there are much more ways to micro units. SC2 badly lacks of micro. In current macro orientated metagame there is no possibility to distinguish best players from good players that is why we have so many different winners of big tournaments (Parting, Life, Seed, MVP, DRG, Jiakji, MMA, Creator, Alive.) | ||
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theSAiNT
United States726 Posts
On November 19 2012 02:15 emythrel wrote: most people switched between the two depending on the situation and frankly it wasn't all that great. If you don't want your units to clump then spread them out, it actually takes skill to do it right.... its another thing that seperates the good from the bad and as the game develops more and more pros are making decisions to either stay clumped or not. Adding a button that will do it for you is actually removing skill from the game. And as Dustin says, in many situations you want your units clumped for highest DPS density. They've fooled around with the tweak in the videos and found that it made little difference because you don't tend to make 1 a-click across the map but many little ones, which makes the units clump up again. Sorry but i'm all for clumping and making spreading out a skill needed rather than having them spread out by default and the game needing less micro. Army control is what separates skill levels, when you play someone 2 leagues lower you win not by superior macro but by being more efficient with your army. If your opponent can click a button that spreads out his army then your superior abilities are somewhat negated You have a Dustin Browder level of understanding, aka completely missing the point. You seem to think that people want a UI improvement to make units easier to spread out. NOPE. Actually, we want it to be OPTIMAL to spread out. Why? Becuase clumpy deathballs are boring to watch, boring to play and difficult to balance from a game design point of view. In the case of marines vs banes, players do spread out. But for every other scenario, deathballs beat non deathballs so obviously players choose to clump up. Make deathballs less good and players will spread out more. Alternatively, make deathballs impossible with a simple pathing tweak and the whole problem goes away. (Yes you will have to rebalance some spells. No it's not difficult to tweak). | ||
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Scholera
United States166 Posts
It encourages actual micro, presplit marines as well as live splitting of marines, changes how deathballs work by making clumping an actual decision, looks badass, and allows spells to be buffed by making units they're used against less clumped. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
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Garmer
1286 Posts
we need the old path with 8 directional movements to fix this completely | ||
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AfricanPsycho
South Africa158 Posts
I just don't see why blizzard would change something that is an aesthetic problem when there is so much balance problems at the moment, this change will increase the problems and unbalance the the arguably already overpowered marine. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 19 2012 04:01 NukeD wrote: Thats okay man. No need to apologize for being wrong. Seriously tho, its undeniably true that spreading your healthbars takes a lot of skill, thats not the issue. The thing is that if they fixed the clumping and made the movement more spread out, it would take even more skill to make your units work efficiently. And no I will not explain why that is the case for the 70th time, a lot of people have already explained thoroughly why. Basically this way we would get day 9's frisbees rather than balls we have now if you know the reference. By all means, correct army handling is a skill that separates good from bad players. However, it makes the game too volatile in my opinion. If you have one wrong engagement, you tend to lose your whole army, which is basically game. If the units where less clumped, you would generally only lose part of them, because your units are spaced out and harder to trap, and because your opponents units are more spaced out and dish out less dps overall. That is, if you have the skill to react quickly and accordingly. Macro skill is still my preferred way of separating good and bad players. If a good player has a short slip of attention and his macro suffers, he can always macro off his ass and catch up. If his attention slipped so long that his macro is way of the majority of the game and he lose the critical engagement, then he deserved to lose that game. | ||
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
On November 19 2012 01:45 dragonsuper wrote: he came from C&C generals... one of the worst game of the series... what you expect ? B Didnt he also make RA2? arguably the best game of the series? I dont know of the pathing is a absolute problem. Units do die too fast in this game however. All deciding 30 second engaments is less than optimal. If this is due to the pathing it is a serious problem. It is however also possible that the units are just too high dps. Sometimes I feel like they made this game on normal speed, after realising this was too easy (and or slow) they changed it too fastest. And now there is a game where everything dies, and half the games are decided with a single missclick. | ||
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