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HotS UI Update - Page 11

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
283 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 15 Next All
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
October 19 2012 17:26 GMT
#201
cant really load site at work, but can you do race and map? Or just either or? I think Race and Map is very important too.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Orzabal
Profile Joined December 2009
France287 Posts
October 19 2012 17:47 GMT
#202
Hell, it's about time
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 18:00:25
October 19 2012 17:57 GMT
#203
On October 19 2012 23:11 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 22:43 [F_]aths wrote:
On October 19 2012 20:13 Tomasy wrote:
Those changes look great !
But I think that most of them should be allready in when game launched 2 years ago.

That is not as easy as one thinks. I currently develop an overclocking tool for GeForce cards. Even though is uses a very simplistic UI, you as a user will have no idea how hard it was to implement it and how complex the interactions are behind the UI just to offer a consistent experience. The Bnet UI is much more complex than my tool and even though the Bnet looks quite simplistic, too; behind it you have complex interactions.You cannot just come up with a perfect solution instantly. And when you have a working solution, it gets harder every time to change even small things.

LoL, DotA2, WC3 and WoW don't seem to have any problems with designing good online systems.

What did SC2 get?

A massive devolution, B.net 0.2, with absolutely nothing new (other than Facebook integration). NOT ONE SINGLE new idea, except Facebook.

The most basic features gutted, which have only slowly been re-added back in.

Blizzard's track record on the new B.net is abysmal. It's only recently that B.net and B.net changes in HotS are finally moving in the right direction. Is it because Greg Canessa finally got fired?



A couple things:

1) Greg Canessa did not get fired. He's now the head of mobile platform development for Activision.

2) Everything that [F_]aths said is exactly right. However, Battle.net 2.0 definitely had some significant project management problems.

The decision to design and implement what we ended up getting for Battle.net 2.0 for SC2 probably came later than it should have. The original software team for the unannounced MMO project got pulled off that around the end of 2009 to go into immediate crunch time to implement the first version of Battle.net 2.0. They threw what released with the game together in a very short period of time, starting from basically zero. Because of this accelerated schedule, a lot of desired features got cut or delayed to be able to arrive at a stable UI that allowed people to play the game.

Then, of course, while work on the UI has certainly proceeded, since the game was released, the Battle.net 2.0 team was drawn down again, since maintaining a full-size team is something they prefer to do with a new project. Because of this, the bigger changes (including under-the-hood changes that we really don't see much of, some of which have been patched into WoL by now) have had to wait until HOTS development ramped up.

There are obviously some disconnects with the community about the desirability of certain specific features, but many of the things people have suggested or asked for have probably just not been possible due to the staffing of the team.

None of my comments are excuses for them making choices that aren't best for the UI or the community feel of the game, but a little understanding of how things came to be the way they are can help put it in perspective, I think.

3) LoL and DOTA2 are certainly driving Blizzard's feature choices as much as anything. WC3's UI is really nothing to be particularly proud of -- it has some nice features but some things people remember warmly may not have been as actually successful at the time. WoW has a much, much larger UI team than any other Blizzard project.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
October 19 2012 18:34 GMT
#204
On October 20 2012 02:57 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 23:11 paralleluniverse wrote:
On October 19 2012 22:43 [F_]aths wrote:
On October 19 2012 20:13 Tomasy wrote:
Those changes look great !
But I think that most of them should be allready in when game launched 2 years ago.

That is not as easy as one thinks. I currently develop an overclocking tool for GeForce cards. Even though is uses a very simplistic UI, you as a user will have no idea how hard it was to implement it and how complex the interactions are behind the UI just to offer a consistent experience. The Bnet UI is much more complex than my tool and even though the Bnet looks quite simplistic, too; behind it you have complex interactions.You cannot just come up with a perfect solution instantly. And when you have a working solution, it gets harder every time to change even small things.

LoL, DotA2, WC3 and WoW don't seem to have any problems with designing good online systems.

What did SC2 get?

A massive devolution, B.net 0.2, with absolutely nothing new (other than Facebook integration). NOT ONE SINGLE new idea, except Facebook.

The most basic features gutted, which have only slowly been re-added back in.

Blizzard's track record on the new B.net is abysmal. It's only recently that B.net and B.net changes in HotS are finally moving in the right direction. Is it because Greg Canessa finally got fired?



A couple things:

1) Greg Canessa did not get fired. He's now the head of mobile platform development for Activision.

2) Everything that [F_]aths said is exactly right. However, Battle.net 2.0 definitely had some significant project management problems.

The decision to design and implement what we ended up getting for Battle.net 2.0 for SC2 probably came later than it should have. The original software team for the unannounced MMO project got pulled off that around the end of 2009 to go into immediate crunch time to implement the first version of Battle.net 2.0. They threw what released with the game together in a very short period of time, starting from basically zero. Because of this accelerated schedule, a lot of desired features got cut or delayed to be able to arrive at a stable UI that allowed people to play the game.

Then, of course, while work on the UI has certainly proceeded, since the game was released, the Battle.net 2.0 team was drawn down again, since maintaining a full-size team is something they prefer to do with a new project. Because of this, the bigger changes (including under-the-hood changes that we really don't see much of, some of which have been patched into WoL by now) have had to wait until HOTS development ramped up.

There are obviously some disconnects with the community about the desirability of certain specific features, but many of the things people have suggested or asked for have probably just not been possible due to the staffing of the team.

None of my comments are excuses for them making choices that aren't best for the UI or the community feel of the game, but a little understanding of how things came to be the way they are can help put it in perspective, I think.

3) LoL and DOTA2 are certainly driving Blizzard's feature choices as much as anything. WC3's UI is really nothing to be particularly proud of -- it has some nice features but some things people remember warmly may not have been as actually successful at the time. WoW has a much, much larger UI team than any other Blizzard project.


O_o, do you work for blizzard, sure sounds like it.... did you interview me! lol
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
WeedRa
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany815 Posts
October 19 2012 18:51 GMT
#205
On October 19 2012 10:36 Ethoex wrote:
I hope when Bliz meets with the players like they said on SOTG even better changes happen!


you should listen again, Mr. Bitter said something different!
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
October 19 2012 18:57 GMT
#206
On October 20 2012 02:57 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 23:11 paralleluniverse wrote:
On October 19 2012 22:43 [F_]aths wrote:
On October 19 2012 20:13 Tomasy wrote:
Those changes look great !
But I think that most of them should be allready in when game launched 2 years ago.

That is not as easy as one thinks. I currently develop an overclocking tool for GeForce cards. Even though is uses a very simplistic UI, you as a user will have no idea how hard it was to implement it and how complex the interactions are behind the UI just to offer a consistent experience. The Bnet UI is much more complex than my tool and even though the Bnet looks quite simplistic, too; behind it you have complex interactions.You cannot just come up with a perfect solution instantly. And when you have a working solution, it gets harder every time to change even small things.

LoL, DotA2, WC3 and WoW don't seem to have any problems with designing good online systems.

What did SC2 get?

A massive devolution, B.net 0.2, with absolutely nothing new (other than Facebook integration). NOT ONE SINGLE new idea, except Facebook.

The most basic features gutted, which have only slowly been re-added back in.

Blizzard's track record on the new B.net is abysmal. It's only recently that B.net and B.net changes in HotS are finally moving in the right direction. Is it because Greg Canessa finally got fired?



A couple things:

1) Greg Canessa did not get fired. He's now the head of mobile platform development for Activision.

2) Everything that [F_]aths said is exactly right. However, Battle.net 2.0 definitely had some significant project management problems.

The decision to design and implement what we ended up getting for Battle.net 2.0 for SC2 probably came later than it should have. The original software team for the unannounced MMO project got pulled off that around the end of 2009 to go into immediate crunch time to implement the first version of Battle.net 2.0. They threw what released with the game together in a very short period of time, starting from basically zero. Because of this accelerated schedule, a lot of desired features got cut or delayed to be able to arrive at a stable UI that allowed people to play the game.

Then, of course, while work on the UI has certainly proceeded, since the game was released, the Battle.net 2.0 team was drawn down again, since maintaining a full-size team is something they prefer to do with a new project. Because of this, the bigger changes (including under-the-hood changes that we really don't see much of, some of which have been patched into WoL by now) have had to wait until HOTS development ramped up.

There are obviously some disconnects with the community about the desirability of certain specific features, but many of the things people have suggested or asked for have probably just not been possible due to the staffing of the team.

None of my comments are excuses for them making choices that aren't best for the UI or the community feel of the game, but a little understanding of how things came to be the way they are can help put it in perspective, I think.

3) LoL and DOTA2 are certainly driving Blizzard's feature choices as much as anything. WC3's UI is really nothing to be particularly proud of -- it has some nice features but some things people remember warmly may not have been as actually successful at the time. WoW has a much, much larger UI team than any other Blizzard project.


Point 2 is very interesting. Do you have the source(s)?
MMA: The true King of Wings
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-19 20:01:08
October 19 2012 19:55 GMT
#207
I do not work for Blizzard.

On October 20 2012 03:57 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Point 2 is very interesting. Do you have the source(s)?


The fact of the unannounced MMO team moving over to work on Battle.net 2.0 in 2009 is described here, albeit with a positive spin:

http://slouken.blogspot.com/2011/04/how-i-left-blizzard.html

(After that post, the author of that blog moved on to 38 Studios, which famously flamed out due to financial issues over the summer, and now works at Valve Software.)

Very important note: I have known Sam personally for fifteen years but I have NOT NOT NOT spoken to him about any confidential information related to his time at Blizzard, ever, not once. I have also not spoken to him about this particular issue. I have just read his blog.

The fact that features were planned and then significantly delayed is a matter of looking at the Battle.net 2.0 described at the Blizzcon 2009 Battle.net session and comparing it against the schedule of its actual release, plus similarly comparing blue posts on the Blizzard forums saying they've planned or worked on certain features that either have not yet arrived or arrived much later than expected.

Worth noting is that in a software development scenario like this, the most common reason a planned feature is ever delayed is that there isn't enough time to get the work done at a given staffing level. My comments about the relationship of those delays to staffing and schedule are an inference, but well-informed by my own experience working in related fields.

Regarding the relationship of pace of UI updates to Blizzard's product cycle, it's clear historically and in the case of SC2 that they have a pattern of continuing to support their released games with patches and updates over time. As the Blizzard blog post linked in the OP points out, however, the biggest SC2 UI patch so far came out of HOTS development. This is more confirmation that rate of feature development tracks with staffing.

(link here, for convenience) http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7634957/Heart_of_the_Swarm_UI_Update-10_18_2012

So, while I presented that as a narrative, it's a healthy mixture of my own inference with what has come out of various Blizzard people's mouths in public forums. I may be wrong about some of the minor details, and my opinion that the project had management issues is entirely my own (not an opinion stated by anyone I know at Blizzard) but I'm pretty confident about the overall picture that I presented being fairly accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
October 19 2012 20:05 GMT
#208
On October 20 2012 03:34 Kazeyonoma wrote:
O_o, do you work for blizzard, sure sounds like it.... did you interview me! lol


No sir, if I worked for Blizzard there's no way in hell I would be posting on the internet about it. That's one rule they take very, very, very seriously.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
SCRaven
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States17 Posts
October 19 2012 20:59 GMT
#209
i love the addition of the performance tab. i believe this change will help a lot of currently low ranked players move up in the ladder better now as they will be able to better see where there strengths and weaknesses lie. awesome work.
For the Swarm... ofcourse
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
October 19 2012 21:16 GMT
#210
I wish I could say I was excited but outside of Blizzard games, being able to track your losses is a really standard feature. It was a standard feature 10 years ago too.
G00BAK
Profile Joined May 2012
Canada51 Posts
October 20 2012 00:49 GMT
#211
Read about the UI as well as other problems not being addressed in the update, like how arcade sucks. Check it out: http://www.swagling.com/hots-in-game-ui-update/
BlazinHot
Profile Joined April 2012
United States8 Posts
October 20 2012 01:10 GMT
#212
There wasnt a single improvement I didnt like from the orriginal battle.net post. After saying that, there are a few improvements I think are needed:
There needs to be a clock on the UI at all times just like WoL and other Blizzard games. Its a feature I really like, and would hate to lose. I would also like to see unlockable backgrounds for the main page to go along with some achievements. Not 4 or 5, more like 30 to 40+. And finally, use Tricia Helfer (Kerrigan) as a voiceover for anything and everything possible; I will never get tired of her.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
October 20 2012 02:11 GMT
#213
Lysenko, I really appreciate your speculation on the development of Battle.net 2.0. I think it's the most enlightening read about its development that I've seen yet, and it really makes sense given the timing of everything.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Dionyseus
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States2068 Posts
October 20 2012 02:12 GMT
#214
Finally those of us who can't get into Masters will finally have our loss count back!
9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius
Cabinet Sanchez
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia1097 Posts
October 20 2012 02:20 GMT
#215
I'm not trying to be negative here but the UI still looks so clunky and amateur hour.
MadProbe
Profile Joined February 2012
United States269 Posts
October 20 2012 02:37 GMT
#216
On October 20 2012 05:05 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2012 03:34 Kazeyonoma wrote:
O_o, do you work for blizzard, sure sounds like it.... did you interview me! lol


No sir, if I worked for Blizzard there's no way in hell I would be posting on the internet about it. That's one rule they take very, very, very seriously.


wow thank you for sharing this info. i wish blizz was more open about the whole process. then i wouldnt have spent 2+ years thinking their devs are complete idiots. its just the managers :p.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 20 2012 03:16 GMT
#217
On October 20 2012 11:37 MadProbe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2012 05:05 Lysenko wrote:
On October 20 2012 03:34 Kazeyonoma wrote:
O_o, do you work for blizzard, sure sounds like it.... did you interview me! lol


No sir, if I worked for Blizzard there's no way in hell I would be posting on the internet about it. That's one rule they take very, very, very seriously.


wow thank you for sharing this info. i wish blizz was more open about the whole process. then i wouldnt have spent 2+ years thinking their devs are complete idiots. its just the managers :p.


That is a double edge sword, sadly. The more open they are, the more people demand information and take information and distort it. The community it not entirely rational on some subjects and completely irrational on others. The most recent comment on the Blizzard forums shows this:

Rational response

I like Blizzard when they are listening to us, but not responding to every little thing. Shouting at the rain is not productive.

All the stuff about the UI is super interesting. I know people want changes quickly, but the SC2 was released when there was Twitch.tv was still Justin.tv. A lot has changed in 2 years and Blizzard couldn't have known what their UI would need to look like in 2 years. Hell, Dota 2 likely wasn't even in development when SC2 was released.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
MarcusWC
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada55 Posts
October 20 2012 04:01 GMT
#218
Really looking forward to this. Menus to me are important lol I'm not even kidding haha I wish they would do it windowed mode, cool windowed mode
Glenn313
Profile Joined August 2011
United States475 Posts
October 20 2012 04:41 GMT
#219
Nice ! The example images they have there look fresh. I expected this, but I'm still looking forward to it.
Hey man
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
October 20 2012 04:45 GMT
#220
I wish there was something other than "Very Easy AI" to practice against
¯\_(シ)_/¯
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