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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
On October 12 2012 13:10 I_Destroy wrote: I think you should try to make a map with your changes and see how well they work out and if they do. Show blizzard that they are worthy of being implemented in to the real game. It's going to be a thing  | ||
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Nihilnovi
Sweden696 Posts
The changes you propose heed on thought to the timings sc2 is built around and are far too drastic. | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
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Project_R
3 Posts
One, is the fact that Blizzard has constantly stated that they DO NOT WANT BROOD WAR UNITS in SC2. Regardless of how much it would help balance the game, they want this game to be unique with its own unique tech trees and units. So this concerns the proposed Hydralisk which is basically a BW hydralisk. As much as I’d love to see BW hydras back in the game, I just don’t think it’s happen. I, personally, have been thinking about this also. (I am a Protoss Player so take this with a grain of salt) The issue I’ve always had with the Zerg design is the roach and how it just isn’t Zerg-like. On top of that, it’s just a really awesome, but boring unit. It’s a tank that has high health, high damage, as well as incredible speed. The only things holding it back are its range and attack speed to an extent. Did anyone know that with the speed upgrade, roaches are faster than stalkers… OFF CREEP. If I could propose some tweaks to the OP that are more probable because of how Blizzard wants the game to be unique and have its own identity. I think the Corrupter changes are great. Roach speed should be cut out and moved to the Hydra Den so that hydras can get speed faster (from hive to lair) This gives zerg a power damage dealer in the mid game and makes more sense as Hydras are the damage dealers and should be able to kite with their range. Make Roach tunneling claws give Roaches a speed buff while burrowed, maybe to 2.75. This way roaches can still retreat, and since they will be healing while burrowed, that speed doesn’t need to be huge. The skill ceiling will rise because opposing players will need to target fire to actually kill roaches underground. As a result of roaches losing their early speed upgrade, it would be required to be buffed in another aspect. I would suggest increasing attack speed slightly, or increasing range +1 again to compensate. This, I feel will create new, innovative play with burrow being used more effectively and knowing when to unburrow to attack. It gives Zerg their speedy Hydras without reverting back to BW hydras, plus hydras keep their insane new damage, now being worth the new cost. Addressing the issue that the roach is 2 supply… I don’t really have too much of an opinion here, but to say that decreasing the supply to 1 would need nerfs to damage and health significantly to the roach, possibly even losing its role as a tank because roaches would be so incredibly overwhelming. | ||
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Fearce
Denmark48 Posts
On a totally related note, awesome thread. Loved the 'history' and identity you presented. | ||
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Millet
Sweden143 Posts
Also, with the early hydras, protoss air could be buffed in order to make it more viable. Which I think is great. Great thread, and I'm, looking forward to reading your upcoming terran counterpart. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On October 12 2012 16:50 Nihilnovi wrote: So Zerg would have to open Hydra den every single game vs Toss or outright die to a mothership core. The changes you propose heed on thought to the timings sc2 is built around and are far too drastic. Zerg has to open roach den every game to stop any protoss allin. Hell they open roach every game anyway. The biggest concern with zerg that should be attended IMO is how the strongest composition in the game is one with 2 units, Infestor/Blord. | ||
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eu.exodus
South Africa1186 Posts
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Mr Cochese
United Kingdom11 Posts
I think I'd actually go further and give the Roach its passive regeneration ability back if it was at T2. Make it a bit weaker than proposed so it's not just an Ultralisk-lite, so they die in battle, but those that survive get back to combat effectiveness rapidly. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 12 2012 19:24 eu.exodus wrote: if this was implemented I would start playing again. Great ideas, not over the top stupid like some of the stuff I've read. The only problem I see is that you would open with 2 light units, making Hellions super strong against you early game army. Then you havent thought about 30min long baneling wars ot +1 7gate zealot | ||
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Tankz123
Denmark228 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10788 Posts
On October 12 2012 20:07 Tankz123 wrote: Just a quick tip - when you compare the damage of BW units and WOL units - please compare the dps, not the damage - someone pointed this out in your previous post. The problem is, that DPS is only half the story or not even. How fast a unit shoots and how high the dmg is, is just as important as the actual DPS and more important when it comes to its "character". To do another BW to SC2 comparison. The Dragoon feels nothing like the Stalker or Immortal because it's attack rate/dmg was sooo different. IT "felt" vastly stronger than other somewhat similar units like the Hydra or.. Marine... But it's DPS was iirc VERY suppar per cost (but not much per supply). This is also because only Toss had the strong AE-Spells which made Goons seem WAY more long lasting than comparable amounts of Hydras or Marines. Same with the Zealot and Zergling... That gave the whole race it's identity, which just isn't really there anymore in SC2 due to weaker AE and less diffrences between Stalker <-> Roach (and Hydra) <-> Marauder. The untis in SC2 in general just feel way too similar. | ||
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Grendel
Belgium126 Posts
Further, yes Hydra as tier 1 would be cool, but there are a few things to consider as well. First, if you want hydras to actually play out like in BW, the attack animation would have to be changed as well, since atm you can't kite with hydras or they'll lose half their attack. Further, something that obviously can be changed/balanced, but the hydra damage is quite high. In BW the hydra is balanced due to the fact that it did only small amounts of damage to small units. Here it would suddenly get a 50% damage increase versus Zealots and Marines. While cool, it shouldn't be like that that the hydra can counter ALL other tier 1 units. For the rest, great post, keep them coming! | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Doubt the hydra can be fit into a t1 unit. But i wouldn't really mind. At the end it would be just a model exchange. And wow 8 super marines for 100/100, thats a steal. On October 12 2012 22:29 Velr wrote: The problem is, that DPS is only half the story or not even. How fast a unit shoots and how high the dmg is, is just as important as the actual DPS and more important when it comes to its "character". Yes DPS is not really useful. But so is damage, knowing the damage doesn't help you if you don't know the attack speed. Roach and Zealot basically do the same damage, but the Zealot almost attacks twice as fast. Range and movement speed also play a role etc. But if you use Damage as an argument and disregard the attack speed it is pretty bad. Then DPS is actually better ... and DPS doesn't say alot. | ||
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
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sns3rsam
United States138 Posts
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
Also note that zealots do better vs 4 lings than in BW, you didnt' account for the significant differences in attack speed between BW and sc2. I strongly agree with switching the roach and hydra tech tree positions, it's one i've been favoring for quite awhile too. The roach you propose would be quite weak for its cost,so it would truly need to be supplemented by other units. | ||
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Kaleidos
Italy172 Posts
On October 12 2012 19:27 Big J wrote: Then you havent thought about 30min long baneling wars ot +1 7gate zealot Hydras are pretty good vs non-charge zealots, and in zvz no one makes roaches before lair anyway. The Queen vs Mothership Core is actually an issue i believe. | ||
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