On September 19 2012 22:28 Furycrab wrote: It leads to unintuitive micro decisions where say... You'll fire on your own unit/building in order to then order your interceptors to go pick on a Viking at range 12.
What makes that more unintuitive then say pre-nerfed Voidrays charging up on rocks or a sacrificial voidray? That's precisely why we want to add these sorts of things. It allows all sorts of creative play and execution beyond the intended Rock-Paper-Scissors format. It's why something like Carrier micro is superior to Oracle entomb. There's only one preset way of entombing minerals and you can't entomb better than another once you've maneuvered it into range. Carrier micro requires constant, precise control like marine splitting or stutter step and that's what makes it awesome.
Besides of which, what does 'unintuitive decisions' really mean/ why does it matter? You discover or are told the characteristics of a unit and then you know what it does and how it behaves. You can then apply what you know about the unit in standard or unique situations.
The rest of your post about balance is a given. It's what Tyler even said- it will probably need to be balanced if they make these changes. But I don't see why this micro would only be cool for awhile. It won't be novel, but it still requires skill. Do people feel ho-hum about marine splitting because so many pro's do it? No, because it's hard to do and it requires skill so it's always impressive even if it becomes standard play.
I'm sure people are sick of the comparison but for example in chess: sacrifices are pretty unintuitive. You have to develop a sense for them. I would say that despite this chess remains a very accessible game as newbies can pick up the absolute basics really quickly. It's not until later down the road that you need to learn such intricacies to improve.
I don't understand this argument of unintuitive. Casuals aren't supposed to find out every little trick there is. Someone who casually plays guitar isn't going to find out about all the little tricks there are such as pinch harmonics. And in these days they probably can if they're interested in the game or instrument since you just go on the internet and ask it in on a game forum....
Discovering tricks is another thing blizzard is taking away from the hardcore gamers, the gamers who care about blizzard and care about the products they release. Not the casuals who take up sc2 to play the campaign, give some custom games a shot and then ditch it for another version of modern warfare.
These casuals don't care about these tricks, the fact that these tricks exist changes nothing for the casual player, they are oblivous. 6 years ago people didn't know about mutalisk micro, you didn't have noobies talking about 'I don' tknow how to handle my mutalisks, stacking them and hold position/patrol/attack move microing them seems really counterintuitive to me!!'
lool.
I'm really wondering what's going on in these people their heads, or what their secret agenda's are. Isn't there someone with a past in BW who cares about the aspects which made bw so great, working at blizzard? I wish the discussions about sc2 going on at blizzard who'd get released somehow, I just can't help but wondering what's clouding their vision from seeing the truth.
On September 20 2012 02:23 awesomoecalypse wrote: awesome that Blizzard is listening, really hope they do bring back at least some aspects of BW's carrier micro. Not necessarily the "avoid targetting your own interceptors" thing which is just sort of silly and random, but the target switching keeping interceptors in play makes perfect sense and is totally intuitive and should be in the game.
as for Muta stacking...the issue was the same issue as with Viking Flowers, which is that it makes it impossible to accurately scout the enemy force. Is that 3 mutas about to harass your base, or 20? SC2 already has a bit of an issue with things being "coinflippy", and making it harder to scout will only increase that.
Dustin Browder: We are very focused on Heart of the Swarm units right now and we don't know what the Carrier will be doing in the beta with all of the new units available on the Stargate.
wtf? is not now supossed to be the best moment to see how it works? this sounds like yea, we saw the video and we won't change it
On September 20 2012 04:45 Berceno wrote: Dustin Browder: We are very focused on Heart of the Swarm units right now and we don't know what the Carrier will be doing in the beta with all of the new units available on the Stargate.
wtf? is not now supossed to be the best moment to see how it works? this sounds like yea, we saw the video and we won't change it
First time I hear about these differences and it's very interesting.
What I thought of was actually this is the way all units should be in SC2.
Units should have a basic mechanic that makes the unit usable and decent.
Yet almost all of them should have these neat little tricks, which are harder to do and yet rewarding. Besides macro this would be an interesting difference between the very best players and the beginners. All units would have a certain strength, but given a specific unit control it would be alot stronger.
I have also found this to be very entertaining to watch.
That is why people love to see marines being split or a ling taking out that one baneling or banshee micro vs marines. Or drop & pickups with prism/overlord/medivac. There are already quite a bit of these possibilities in the game, but it might be even better if they'd kick it up one more notch.
I have a feeling Blizzard actually realized this, hence why alot of units have 'micro' abilities. But it's not the same. I would actually refer to this micro as IMPLIED micro. Because when you have blink, ofcourse you're gonna use it, regardless of how good you are. You might be less efficient at using it, but it's still a good ability.
Yet the most rewarding micro is obviously the 'invisible' tricks that are in the game, but takes practice and research to actually master.
I entirely agree with the points made here Carrier micro was one of the great moments in BW, where you could see the skill of the player really shine through, and I don't think it would be in any way unbalancing to have that in the game for carriers. Just then balance the carrier so that it works with those things in mind.
Keeping the carrier as the mechanics it is currently won't work because they can't buff it's A-move too much more without it being OP in low leagues. Which is why adding in these advanced micro tricks is the best way to do it, buff it for the top players and leave it balanced by the lower leagues still.
In BW, on ladders, I used to use the shift click on geyser trick to scout my opponent's base. It was absolutely as unintuitive as anything could be. Most people, being everyone that didn't know about this trick, would simply assume I was hacking. If you want to blame someone for not knowing tricks like this, all I can do is shake my head. So much in life is arbitrary. For example, this trick I just mentioned was eventually not allowed. You would get fined points on ladders and you would auto lose a game if you tried in a tournament. Every race could use the trick, though. In SC 2, it's built into the game to be able to pass through units to scout a base. Who complains now, though?
You guys are really biased. You're hardcore people that have prob been playing from day 1 and don't miss anything that takes place on tl.net When newer players come around, think in 5 years, they're going to have no clue wtf this carrier micro is and etc. They won't be able to just watch a game and realize someone is doing some weird trick that they need to search on tl.net to learn. And, if they do become pretty good, they're probably kinda logical. It probably won't occur to them to try some random combination of random to micro properly. They will be practicing micro in a manner that makes sense. Not in some weird way/glitch way.
Nony was one of the best players and def mechanics were a big part of that. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted the highest degree of mechanics needed for everything. If I were to start playing in 5 years though, I would simply hope that I could find Nony's video on carrier micro, without needing some act of serendipity to end up practicing how I'm supposed to.
OR OR Blizzard can add in a Tutorial for those units in Single Player`s mode to carefully breaks down the movement and handy dandy of the those tricks so the new players can be accessible to these from the get go!
Now everybody wins, n00bs win, pros find new challenges to push their limits, spectators are in awe of the godly plays, sponsors gets drawn in, esports bloom in the culture, and hurray for all.
On September 20 2012 08:04 playa wrote: In BW, on ladders, I used to use the shift click on geyser trick to scout my opponent's base. It was absolutely as unintuitive as anything could be. Most people, being everyone that didn't know about this trick, would simply assume I was hacking. If you want to blame someone for not knowing tricks like this, all I can do is shake my head. So much in life is arbitrary. For example, this trick I just mentioned was eventually not allowed. You would get fined points on ladders and you would auto lose a game if you tried in a tournament. Every race could use the trick, though. In SC 2, it's built into the game to be able to pass through units to scout a base. Who complains now, though?
You guys are really biased. You're hardcore people that have prob been playing from day 1 and don't miss anything that takes place on tl.net When newer players come around, think in 5 years, they're going to have no clue wtf this carrier micro is and etc. They won't be able to just watch a game and realize someone is doing some weird trick that they need to search on tl.net to learn. And, if they do become pretty good, they're probably kinda logical. It probably won't occur to them to try some random combination of random to micro properly. They will be practicing micro in a manner that makes sense. Not in some weird way/glitch way.
Nony was one of the best players and def mechanics were a big part of that. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted the highest degree of mechanics needed for everything. If I were to start playing in 5 years though, I would simply hope that I could find Nony's video on carrier micro, without needing some act of serendipity to end up practicing how I'm supposed to.
Just watching replays you will not learn how to play the game. The only real way is to either 1) figure it out or 2) see an FPVOD or look at someones hands live.
On September 20 2012 08:04 playa wrote: In BW, on ladders, I used to use the shift click on geyser trick to scout my opponent's base. It was absolutely as unintuitive as anything could be. Most people, being everyone that didn't know about this trick, would simply assume I was hacking. If you want to blame someone for not knowing tricks like this, all I can do is shake my head. So much in life is arbitrary. For example, this trick I just mentioned was eventually not allowed. You would get fined points on ladders and you would auto lose a game if you tried in a tournament. Every race could use the trick, though. In SC 2, it's built into the game to be able to pass through units to scout a base. Who complains now, though?
You guys are really biased. You're hardcore people that have prob been playing from day 1 and don't miss anything that takes place on tl.net When newer players come around, think in 5 years, they're going to have no clue wtf this carrier micro is and etc. They won't be able to just watch a game and realize someone is doing some weird trick that they need to search on tl.net to learn. And, if they do become pretty good, they're probably kinda logical. It probably won't occur to them to try some random combination of random to micro properly. They will be practicing micro in a manner that makes sense. Not in some weird way/glitch way.
Nony was one of the best players and def mechanics were a big part of that. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted the highest degree of mechanics needed for everything. If I were to start playing in 5 years though, I would simply hope that I could find Nony's video on carrier micro, without needing some act of serendipity to end up practicing how I'm supposed to.
Of course you'll be able to find the video. I play the drums; how fucking boring would the drums be if all the little techniques you could do were just completely intuitive and you could just sit at the kit and practice single rolls for a few years and be the best drummer in the world? If the mechanics for throwing a perfect fastball were completely intuitive, what would that be like?
How does one learn SC2? How does one learn anything? How obvious is it to a new chess player that the knight moves in an L shape, and pawns can't move backwards? So much in life is arbitrary right? Who the fuck would care if the pawns could move forwards and backwards? Or if a baseball mound was only 20 feet from home plate? An incredibly complex subject like say, math has so many thousands of pages written about all the things you need to learn. No one even bats an eye; you just understand that you need to read up to learn math. Why is it so bad that a video game requires you to learn it a little bit?
We're talking about Starcraft here. It needs to be the most competitive game it can possibly be. I feel like it can't be that if you just make everything completely obvious in the game. If it's important enough micro that in order to improve you need to learn it, it'll be in a sticky, maybe even in a fucking book someday. The good thing is that the level of skill to do everything else AND micro the carriers would put you at a level where you should be reading micro guides or learning from pro's coaches ANYWAYS.
On September 20 2012 08:04 playa wrote: In BW, on ladders, I used to use the shift click on geyser trick to scout my opponent's base. It was absolutely as unintuitive as anything could be. Most people, being everyone that didn't know about this trick, would simply assume I was hacking. If you want to blame someone for not knowing tricks like this, all I can do is shake my head. So much in life is arbitrary. For example, this trick I just mentioned was eventually not allowed. You would get fined points on ladders and you would auto lose a game if you tried in a tournament. Every race could use the trick, though. In SC 2, it's built into the game to be able to pass through units to scout a base. Who complains now, though?
You guys are really biased. You're hardcore people that have prob been playing from day 1 and don't miss anything that takes place on tl.net When newer players come around, think in 5 years, they're going to have no clue wtf this carrier micro is and etc. They won't be able to just watch a game and realize someone is doing some weird trick that they need to search on tl.net to learn. And, if they do become pretty good, they're probably kinda logical. It probably won't occur to them to try some random combination of random to micro properly. They will be practicing micro in a manner that makes sense. Not in some weird way/glitch way.
Nony was one of the best players and def mechanics were a big part of that. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted the highest degree of mechanics needed for everything. If I were to start playing in 5 years though, I would simply hope that I could find Nony's video on carrier micro, without needing some act of serendipity to end up practicing how I'm supposed to.
Of course you'll be able to find the video. I play the drums; how fucking boring would the drums be if all the little techniques you could do were just completely intuitive and you could just sit at the kit and practice single rolls for a few years and be the best drummer in the world? If the mechanics for throwing a perfect fastball were completely intuitive, what would that be like?
How does one learn SC2? How does one learn anything? How obvious is it to a new chess player that the knight moves in an L shape, and pawns can't move backwards? So much in life is arbitrary right? Who the fuck would care if the pawns could move forwards and backwards? Or if a baseball mound was only 20 feet from home plate? An incredibly complex subject like say, math has so many thousands of pages written about all the things you need to learn. No one even bats an eye; you just understand that you need to read up to learn math. Why is it so bad that a video game requires you to learn it a little bit? We're talking about Starcraft here. It needs to be the most competitive game it can possibly be.
I feel like it can't be that if you just make everything completely obvious in the game. If it's important enough micro that in order to improve you need to learn it, it'll be in a sticky, maybe even in a fucking book someday. The good thing is that the level of skill to do everything else AND micro the carriers would put you at a level where you should be reading micro guides or learning from pro's coaches ANYWAYS.
I didn't even play Brood War, but I think I can safely say that BW was so close to becoming an actual game. One that doesn't change constantly. That seems like a big thing to me; with most video games the rules just change all the time patch after patch. BW was settling down and becoming a GAME; like chess, or go, or football. No more balance patches etc etc. I don't know what I think about that but I'm curious as to what you guys think. I just feel that with like SC2 there's just so many updates, still 2 expansions worth of units, people complaining non stop forever and ever.
I think for the love of e-sports we need some game that has the content to be good enough to just BE THE GAME IT IS and no more is needed. Starcraft 2 sure as hell doesn't look like that game to me.
I'm really not the person to talk about when it comes to not putting in the work to get better. I started 5 years after others and qualified for WCG US, in two of my first three years of playing the game. I still didn't know any of these tricks. The only thing I was aware of was shift click to scout. You can't have some units where micro is intuitive, such as splitting marines, yet have some units that operate in some bizarre fashion that only a select few people are privy to. If you would rather information be "hidden" on how to micro units, rather than easily accessible to all, then you really need to focus more on other ways to get an adv because that's sad.
When some know and some don't, to no fault of their own, it's simply not an even playing field. There's really nothing to debate.
On September 20 2012 08:04 playa wrote: In BW, on ladders, I used to use the shift click on geyser trick to scout my opponent's base. It was absolutely as unintuitive as anything could be. Most people, being everyone that didn't know about this trick, would simply assume I was hacking. If you want to blame someone for not knowing tricks like this, all I can do is shake my head. So much in life is arbitrary. For example, this trick I just mentioned was eventually not allowed. You would get fined points on ladders and you would auto lose a game if you tried in a tournament. Every race could use the trick, though. In SC 2, it's built into the game to be able to pass through units to scout a base. Who complains now, though?
You guys are really biased. You're hardcore people that have prob been playing from day 1 and don't miss anything that takes place on tl.net When newer players come around, think in 5 years, they're going to have no clue wtf this carrier micro is and etc. They won't be able to just watch a game and realize someone is doing some weird trick that they need to search on tl.net to learn. And, if they do become pretty good, they're probably kinda logical. It probably won't occur to them to try some random combination of random to micro properly. They will be practicing micro in a manner that makes sense. Not in some weird way/glitch way.
Nony was one of the best players and def mechanics were a big part of that. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted the highest degree of mechanics needed for everything. If I were to start playing in 5 years though, I would simply hope that I could find Nony's video on carrier micro, without needing some act of serendipity to end up practicing how I'm supposed to.
Of course you'll be able to find the video. I play the drums; how fucking boring would the drums be if all the little techniques you could do were just completely intuitive and you could just sit at the kit and practice single rolls for a few years and be the best drummer in the world? If the mechanics for throwing a perfect fastball were completely intuitive, what would that be like?
How does one learn SC2? How does one learn anything? How obvious is it to a new chess player that the knight moves in an L shape, and pawns can't move backwards? So much in life is arbitrary right? Who the fuck would care if the pawns could move forwards and backwards? Or if a baseball mound was only 20 feet from home plate? An incredibly complex subject like say, math has so many thousands of pages written about all the things you need to learn. No one even bats an eye; you just understand that you need to read up to learn math. Why is it so bad that a video game requires you to learn it a little bit? We're talking about Starcraft here. It needs to be the most competitive game it can possibly be.
I feel like it can't be that if you just make everything completely obvious in the game. If it's important enough micro that in order to improve you need to learn it, it'll be in a sticky, maybe even in a fucking book someday. The good thing is that the level of skill to do everything else AND micro the carriers would put you at a level where you should be reading micro guides or learning from pro's coaches ANYWAYS.
I didn't even play Brood War, but I think I can safely say that BW was so close to becoming an actual game. One that doesn't change constantly. That seems like a big thing to me; with most video games the rules just change all the time patch after patch. BW was settling down and becoming a GAME; like chess, or go, or football. No more balance patches etc etc. I don't know what I think about that but I'm curious as to what you guys think. I just feel that with like SC2 there's just so many updates, still 2 expansions worth of units, people complaining non stop forever and ever.
I think for the love of e-sports we need some game that has the content to be good enough to just BE THE GAME IT IS and no more is needed. Starcraft 2 sure as hell doesn't look like that game to me.
I'm really not the person to talk about when it comes to no putting in the work to get better. I started 5 years after others and qualified for WCG US, in two of my first three years of playing the game. I still didn't know any of these tricks. The only thing I was aware of was shift click to scout. You can't have some units where micro is intuitive, such as splitting marines, yet have some units that operate in some bizarre fashion that only a select few people are privy to. If you would rather information be "hidden" on how to micro units, rather than easily accessible to all, then you really need to focus more on other ways to get an adv because that's sad.
When some know and some don't, to no fault of their own, it's simply not an even playing field. There's really nothing to debate.
So when someone doesn't know what a pin or a double attack is in chess, that makes chess an uneven playing field? Tactics like those are little tricks, after all.
People will probably say to not compare SC to chess. But I think we need to compare it to older things. Games like chess and go have been around and popular for THOUSANDS of years. Knowing what made those games successful is so important to making a new strategy game like Starcraft.
On September 20 2012 08:04 playa wrote: In BW, on ladders, I used to use the shift click on geyser trick to scout my opponent's base. It was absolutely as unintuitive as anything could be. Most people, being everyone that didn't know about this trick, would simply assume I was hacking. If you want to blame someone for not knowing tricks like this, all I can do is shake my head. So much in life is arbitrary. For example, this trick I just mentioned was eventually not allowed. You would get fined points on ladders and you would auto lose a game if you tried in a tournament. Every race could use the trick, though. In SC 2, it's built into the game to be able to pass through units to scout a base. Who complains now, though?
You guys are really biased. You're hardcore people that have prob been playing from day 1 and don't miss anything that takes place on tl.net When newer players come around, think in 5 years, they're going to have no clue wtf this carrier micro is and etc. They won't be able to just watch a game and realize someone is doing some weird trick that they need to search on tl.net to learn. And, if they do become pretty good, they're probably kinda logical. It probably won't occur to them to try some random combination of random to micro properly. They will be practicing micro in a manner that makes sense. Not in some weird way/glitch way.
Nony was one of the best players and def mechanics were a big part of that. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted the highest degree of mechanics needed for everything. If I were to start playing in 5 years though, I would simply hope that I could find Nony's video on carrier micro, without needing some act of serendipity to end up practicing how I'm supposed to.
Of course you'll be able to find the video. I play the drums; how fucking boring would the drums be if all the little techniques you could do were just completely intuitive and you could just sit at the kit and practice single rolls for a few years and be the best drummer in the world? If the mechanics for throwing a perfect fastball were completely intuitive, what would that be like?
How does one learn SC2? How does one learn anything? How obvious is it to a new chess player that the knight moves in an L shape, and pawns can't move backwards? So much in life is arbitrary right? Who the fuck would care if the pawns could move forwards and backwards? Or if a baseball mound was only 20 feet from home plate? An incredibly complex subject like say, math has so many thousands of pages written about all the things you need to learn. No one even bats an eye; you just understand that you need to read up to learn math. Why is it so bad that a video game requires you to learn it a little bit? We're talking about Starcraft here. It needs to be the most competitive game it can possibly be.
I feel like it can't be that if you just make everything completely obvious in the game. If it's important enough micro that in order to improve you need to learn it, it'll be in a sticky, maybe even in a fucking book someday. The good thing is that the level of skill to do everything else AND micro the carriers would put you at a level where you should be reading micro guides or learning from pro's coaches ANYWAYS.
I didn't even play Brood War, but I think I can safely say that BW was so close to becoming an actual game. One that doesn't change constantly. That seems like a big thing to me; with most video games the rules just change all the time patch after patch. BW was settling down and becoming a GAME; like chess, or go, or football. No more balance patches etc etc. I don't know what I think about that but I'm curious as to what you guys think. I just feel that with like SC2 there's just so many updates, still 2 expansions worth of units, people complaining non stop forever and ever.
I think for the love of e-sports we need some game that has the content to be good enough to just BE THE GAME IT IS and no more is needed. Starcraft 2 sure as hell doesn't look like that game to me.
I'm really not the person to talk about when it comes to no putting in the work to get better. I started 5 years after others and qualified for WCG US, in two of my first three years of playing the game. I still didn't know any of these tricks. The only thing I was aware of was shift click to scout. You can't have some units where micro is intuitive, such as splitting marines, yet have some units that operate in some bizarre fashion that only a select few people are privy to. If you would rather information be "hidden" on how to micro units, rather than easily accessible to all, then you really need to focus more on other ways to get an adv because that's sad.
When some know and some don't, to no fault of their own, it's simply not an even playing field. There's really nothing to debate.
So when someone doesn't know what a pin or a double attack is in chess, that makes chess an uneven playing field? Tactics like those are little tricks, after all.
If you know so much about chess, maybe stick to talking about that. I'm sure starcraft would be better if there was no attack icon and it had a random hotkey that players had to discover. That would really help to separate the talented from the noobs. Is there really that little depth in this game that you have to grasp for hidden micro techniques? Maybe they can change it to that no races are shown when the game starts. Everything must be discovered the hard way or else it's just too ez. You must be some crazy gosu that is just desperate for a challenge. I wish I could be like that.
On September 20 2012 08:04 playa wrote: In BW, on ladders, I used to use the shift click on geyser trick to scout my opponent's base. It was absolutely as unintuitive as anything could be. Most people, being everyone that didn't know about this trick, would simply assume I was hacking. If you want to blame someone for not knowing tricks like this, all I can do is shake my head. So much in life is arbitrary. For example, this trick I just mentioned was eventually not allowed. You would get fined points on ladders and you would auto lose a game if you tried in a tournament. Every race could use the trick, though. In SC 2, it's built into the game to be able to pass through units to scout a base. Who complains now, though?
You guys are really biased. You're hardcore people that have prob been playing from day 1 and don't miss anything that takes place on tl.net When newer players come around, think in 5 years, they're going to have no clue wtf this carrier micro is and etc. They won't be able to just watch a game and realize someone is doing some weird trick that they need to search on tl.net to learn. And, if they do become pretty good, they're probably kinda logical. It probably won't occur to them to try some random combination of random to micro properly. They will be practicing micro in a manner that makes sense. Not in some weird way/glitch way.
Nony was one of the best players and def mechanics were a big part of that. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted the highest degree of mechanics needed for everything. If I were to start playing in 5 years though, I would simply hope that I could find Nony's video on carrier micro, without needing some act of serendipity to end up practicing how I'm supposed to.
Of course you'll be able to find the video. I play the drums; how fucking boring would the drums be if all the little techniques you could do were just completely intuitive and you could just sit at the kit and practice single rolls for a few years and be the best drummer in the world? If the mechanics for throwing a perfect fastball were completely intuitive, what would that be like?
How does one learn SC2? How does one learn anything? How obvious is it to a new chess player that the knight moves in an L shape, and pawns can't move backwards? So much in life is arbitrary right? Who the fuck would care if the pawns could move forwards and backwards? Or if a baseball mound was only 20 feet from home plate? An incredibly complex subject like say, math has so many thousands of pages written about all the things you need to learn. No one even bats an eye; you just understand that you need to read up to learn math. Why is it so bad that a video game requires you to learn it a little bit? We're talking about Starcraft here. It needs to be the most competitive game it can possibly be.
I feel like it can't be that if you just make everything completely obvious in the game. If it's important enough micro that in order to improve you need to learn it, it'll be in a sticky, maybe even in a fucking book someday. The good thing is that the level of skill to do everything else AND micro the carriers would put you at a level where you should be reading micro guides or learning from pro's coaches ANYWAYS.
I didn't even play Brood War, but I think I can safely say that BW was so close to becoming an actual game. One that doesn't change constantly. That seems like a big thing to me; with most video games the rules just change all the time patch after patch. BW was settling down and becoming a GAME; like chess, or go, or football. No more balance patches etc etc. I don't know what I think about that but I'm curious as to what you guys think. I just feel that with like SC2 there's just so many updates, still 2 expansions worth of units, people complaining non stop forever and ever.
I think for the love of e-sports we need some game that has the content to be good enough to just BE THE GAME IT IS and no more is needed. Starcraft 2 sure as hell doesn't look like that game to me.
I'm really not the person to talk about when it comes to no putting in the work to get better. I started 5 years after others and qualified for WCG US, in two of my first three years of playing the game. I still didn't know any of these tricks. The only thing I was aware of was shift click to scout. You can't have some units where micro is intuitive, such as splitting marines, yet have some units that operate in some bizarre fashion that only a select few people are privy to. If you would rather information be "hidden" on how to micro units, rather than easily accessible to all, then you really need to focus more on other ways to get an adv because that's sad.
When some know and some don't, to no fault of their own, it's simply not an even playing field. There's really nothing to debate.
So when someone doesn't know what a pin or a double attack is in chess, that makes chess an uneven playing field? Tactics like those are little tricks, after all.
If you know so much about chess, maybe stick to talking about that. I'm sure starcraft would be better if there was no attack icon and it had a random hotkey that players had to discover. That would really help to separate the talented from the noobs. Is there really that little depth in this game that you have to grasp for hidden micro techniques? Maybe they can change it to that no races are shown when the game starts. Everything must be discovered the hard way or else it's just too ez. You must be some crazy gosu that is just desperate for a challenge. I wish I could be like that.
EPT
