EPTWhy the Warhound should NOT be balanced - Page 17
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how2TL
1197 Posts
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crbox
Canada1181 Posts
Blizzard should try to be creative in the way they design unit, even if they might get flamed at first for making "overpowered" units | ||
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Lixo
202 Posts
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Recoil
United States276 Posts
Sadly as we all think it will probably land on deaf ears. | ||
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
On September 12 2012 01:02 Ballistixz wrote: i agree with orb about the whole A-move thing and the game being easy, but the fact is that the entire game consists of those units. colossi, thors, roaches, hydras, ultras, broodlords, carriers, zealots, archons, marines, etc etc... in order to change this you would have to resdesign every unit in the game as well as remove a few units. colossi, thors, and Mship are units that i believe should have NEVER gotten past the beta stages and its utterly stupid that they did. infact colossi itself is the embodiment of the A move deathball in SC2. Broodlords and zealots need to be microed against ; they have quite a bit of micro potential. Carriers could be awesome.... Ultas not only must be microed against - but if you say they're a move then you've never seen Stephano and Idra play (Steph being the good example, and Idra showing exactly how much of a failure amoving ultras most of the time is) But marines ? Something tells me you've never seen a Korean terran micro marines. Marines have enormous skill cap and micro potential. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
On September 10 2012 21:14 Evangelist wrote: The only condition that a unit requires for inclusion in a game is that it has substantive differences than another unit. That is why a battlecruiser and a marine are able to co-exist despite arguably being comparable to each other (terrans only have two low damage rapid fire units). The only problem with the warhound is that it overlaps far too much with the marauder and at the same time is also better than the marauder. This is due to the following reasons: - it costs the same supply and only slightly higher amounts of resources - it is more mobile - it carries improved damage against nearly all of the opponents a marauder is expected to face - it has a longer range - it has higher HP - it can be mass repaired So for the same supply you get improved damage, longer range, more mobility, high survivability and the ability to be repaired. It is even larger, so it suffers less from siege tank fire. There were plenty of overlapping units in BW. This constant harping on about the reaver and the dragoon and so on - there was nothing particularly special about the dragoon or the vulture or lurkers. Lurkers were just immobile hellions. Dragoons were just stalkers with a bit more damage. The vulture doesn't even have the micro of the hellion for gods sake. The only unit people keep going on about is the reaver. Well you know what? I've had it with the reaver. I'm going to call it what it was. It was a complete design failure. It was a stupid unit that couldn't survive without entire tactics being based around its use. It was slow, buggy and looked ridiculous. There was no micro involved in the reaver without the use of shuttles. It lagged a mile behind every other unit, it required extra building micro in a game already overloaded with it. What's more, it was a dumb fire unit - it just did splash damage in a game completely overloaded with splash damage The reaver epitomised everything that was wrong with BW design. It epitomised everything people misunderstand about system design. The colossus is a far better unit. lol what the fuck is this. Marines are not comparable at all to BattleCruisers. I would love to see some examples of overlapping units in BW. Go on. Nothing special about the vulture? How about not needing to stop to shoot? or laying mines to control space or make for escape routes? Speed? They don't trigger mines? Nothing special about the lurkers? Lurkers are not immobile hellions. They get cloaked and immobile when burrowed, but are really fast when walking (which let's them create pincer attacks). They can be stopped to act like baneling bombs (or should I say Banelings can act like stop lurkers?). Their spines can be dodged. I wonder how different the Collosus would be if it's laser was slower and it could be dodged to mitigate it's damage. Lurkers also are made from eggs which are beefy and can be use to block ramps or paths, but also used to shield hydras under storm or irradiate. You are seriously critiquing BW balance? You are pretty much clueless. The Reaver epitomizes everything that's good about brood war. A hard to master unit which would die in 5 seconds in the hands of a new player but can be devastating in the hands of someone who knows how to play. It creates situational terrain advantage, it enforces the player to not look away from it too much and makes a tech path viable, thus creating more openings and game plans. All this while being viable in all 3 Protoss match-ups. Go back to your cave. | ||
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Rainling
United States456 Posts
In my opinion, the Warhound should either be a slow and powerful unit (or a fast and weak unit, but I don't think that's going to happen) or completely removed. I think mech-style play should become more viable, not less, because mech has the potential to add an interesting dynamic to all the terran matchups. I didn't come up with this idea, for more information read the "In Defense of Mech" thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
like they did the hellion->battle hellion thingy! You get a factory, get a tech lab, get a armory, upgrade -> make your tanks into warhounds ;D They like transformers.. it could happen ;D | ||
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plgElwood
Germany518 Posts
 Airplay, WarpPrism Immortal, Oracle, StormDrop, DT, Blink Mirco.... Show your best and stop QQing about a unit.. Terran always found a way to beat stuff, got nerfed all the time...now Warhound is the reward... Orb is wrong with saying this will make all the mechanics too easy to be interesting.. Blizzard is genius to introduce the Warhound to FORCE protoss not to play passive. This will result in more exciting games since the 200 vs 200 Battle is not favorable by either side, not a one sided slaugther witch 3-3 Colossi and Storm. Warhound should not effect TvZ since there will be a Muta threat all the time. By the way...everyone here who claims not to buy HotS is a dirty liar | ||
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Corvi
Germany1406 Posts
the conclusion would have been making protoss and zerg harder to micro ... | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
the point is not what certain race needs in their arsenal, the point is that the units need to be designed with micro potential in mind. | ||
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hatespam
Romania161 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Ryan307 :)
United States1289 Posts
Seriously lolol User was warned for this post | ||
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Embir
Poland567 Posts
On September 12 2012 02:10 plgElwood wrote: To all Protoss of the Beta ....welcom to the Terran side of things were having the units is not enough Airplay, WarpPrism Immortal, Oracle, StormDrop, DT, Blink Mirco.... Show your best and stop QQing about a unit.. Terran always found a way to beat stuff, got nerfed all the time...now Warhound is the reward... Orb is wrong with saying this will make all the mechanics too easy to be interesting.. Blizzard is genius to introduce the Warhound to FORCE protoss not to play passive. This will result in more exciting games since the 200 vs 200 Battle is not favorable by either side, not a one sided slaugther witch 3-3 Colossi and Storm. Warhound should not effect TvZ since there will be a Muta threat all the time. By the way...everyone here who claims not to buy HotS is a dirty liar QFT. Time for Tosses to use their brain in game. The age of turtling came to an end. | ||
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
On September 12 2012 02:10 plgElwood wrote: To all Protoss of the Beta ....welcom to the Terran side of things were having the units is not enough Airplay, WarpPrism Immortal, Oracle, StormDrop, DT, Blink Mirco.... Show your best and stop QQing about a unit.. Terran always found a way to beat stuff, got nerfed all the time...now Warhound is the reward... Orb is wrong with saying this will make all the mechanics too easy to be interesting.. Blizzard is genius to introduce the Warhound to FORCE protoss not to play passive. This will result in more exciting games since the 200 vs 200 Battle is not favorable by either side, not a one sided slaugther witch 3-3 Colossi and Storm. Warhound should not effect TvZ since there will be a Muta threat all the time. By the way...everyone here who claims not to buy HotS is a dirty liar This is a discussion from the perspective of maintaining the long term health of SC2 as a vibrant spectator e-sport, not some myopic balance whine directed at one race or another. If you can't grasp this then you are part of the problem. This is a good thread and is something I have had a problem with for quite a long time (marauders, warp gate, force field, roaches, the list goes on). I lived through this shit in World of Warcraft when the game went from gold to garbage in the course of one expansion after the Activision merger and the same has happened to the Starcraft and Diablo franchises since then. I have little hope for the future or for the effectiveness of pleas like this thread but I do hope that I am wrong. | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
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Garmer
1286 Posts
we should fund a kickstarter project for a BW-like-RTS; Sc2 is fucked on so many levels that is beyond repair already | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On September 12 2012 02:47 Garmer wrote: they made it a-move on purpose, nothing we can do will change their mind sadly... we should fund a kickstarter project for a BW-like-RTS; Sc2 is fucked on so many levels that is beyond repair already That's not true though, I feel like Blizzard has done a pretty good job of balancing WOL; and I'll admit I have complained a ton in the past about how "underpowered" Terran is, etc. Right now I think WOL is balanced pretty well, and it seems as if Blizzard is taking more of an interest in making sure HoTS ends up the same way, which makes me confident that they'll get it right eventually. That being said, I do think the Warhound should be completely redesigned. | ||
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FATJESUSONABIKE
184 Posts
On September 10 2012 21:14 Evangelist wrote: The only condition that a unit requires for inclusion in a game is that it has substantive differences than another unit. That is why a battlecruiser and a marine are able to co-exist despite arguably being comparable to each other (terrans only have two low damage rapid fire units). The only problem with the warhound is that it overlaps far too much with the marauder and at the same time is also better than the marauder. This is due to the following reasons: - it costs the same supply and only slightly higher amounts of resources - it is more mobile - it carries improved damage against nearly all of the opponents a marauder is expected to face - it has a longer range - it has higher HP - it can be mass repaired So for the same supply you get improved damage, longer range, more mobility, high survivability and the ability to be repaired. It is even larger, so it suffers less from siege tank fire. There were plenty of overlapping units in BW. This constant harping on about the reaver and the dragoon and so on - there was nothing particularly special about the dragoon or the vulture or lurkers. Lurkers were just immobile hellions. Dragoons were just stalkers with a bit more damage. The vulture doesn't even have the micro of the hellion for gods sake. The only unit people keep going on about is the reaver. Well you know what? I've had it with the reaver. I'm going to call it what it was. It was a complete design failure. It was a stupid unit that couldn't survive without entire tactics being based around its use. It was slow, buggy and looked ridiculous. There was no micro involved in the reaver without the use of shuttles. It lagged a mile behind every other unit, it required extra building micro in a game already overloaded with it. What's more, it was a dumb fire unit - it just did splash damage in a game completely overloaded with splash damage The reaver epitomised everything that was wrong with BW design. It epitomised everything people misunderstand about system design. The colossus is a far better unit. woooooooooooat? that is some gross, gross and disgusting reasoning sir. and your nickname LOL, what flaw don't you have? User was banned for this post. | ||
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MinimalistSC2
United States121 Posts
Then, after 8 years of FPS games, i saw a youtube video of Husky casting a pro game, talking about how difficult it was to do what it was I was watching, I learned about the pro scene, and how everybody said it was so difficult to master. Thats why i picked up sc2. Because I didnt play zelda for the graphics, i didnt play racing games for the cars, or mario party to see cute cartoon characters. I became a gamer because after running into these games they were FUN TO PLAY, and HARD, therefore REWARDING TO MASTER. I'm not asking for the re-incarnation of Chess, i'm asking for a game that doesnt devolve back 10 years into basic unit types with basic rolls and basic gameplay. | ||
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