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Active: 9548 users

The warhound - a deathball unit, not a "mech" unit - Page 13

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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IPA
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3206 Posts
September 06 2012 18:29 GMT
#241
Lol @ sweeping balance statements 2 days after a beta-release. Do you hear yourselves?! Play the fucking game, it's brand new.

Jesus....
Time held me green and dying though I sang in my chains like the sea.
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 18:31:02
September 06 2012 18:29 GMT
#242
TvT is extremely boring atm, just boring warhound vs warhound 1a. I really hope blizzard will change this . Watching demuslim vs a terran..
blug
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia623 Posts
September 06 2012 18:30 GMT
#243
On September 07 2012 03:29 IPA wrote:
Lol @ sweeping balance statements 2 days after a beta-release. Do you hear yourselves?! Play the fucking game, it's brand new.

Jesus....


Well durr, it is the beta. People should be voicing their opinions about balance.
Derp
Zergrusher
Profile Joined November 2011
United States562 Posts
September 06 2012 18:35 GMT
#244
TVT.....became ZVZ


Roach wars in ZVZ

Warhound wars in TVT

Collosi wars in PVP


My god dustins bad unit designs are ruining match ups
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
September 06 2012 18:37 GMT
#245
I am really really afraid that blizzard will be VERY stubborn and refuse to change the warhound. They will make it maybe 3 supply and higher the cost, while they should bring the goliath instead..
Heinsenzerg
Profile Joined September 2011
Argentina2279 Posts
September 06 2012 18:37 GMT
#246
yeah at least its more watchable than laser wars in terms of the graphics, but man are pure warhound tvt boring or what
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 18:43:01
September 06 2012 18:39 GMT
#247
I wonder if the warhound is the new zerg bonjwa?
Morphage
Profile Joined September 2011
France492 Posts
September 06 2012 18:43 GMT
#248
On September 07 2012 03:29 IPA wrote:
Lol @ sweeping balance statements 2 days after a beta-release. Do you hear yourselves?! Play the fucking game, it's brand new.

Jesus....


We are just complaining about the DESIGN of the unit, who cares about balance at this point, that can easily be tweaked by changing numbers. As people have mentioned previously, the warhound is a boring unit.
I just watched a TvT on Demuslim's stream and it was just warhound vs warhound. TvT is the new PvP, whoever makes more warhounds wins...how boring.
Waywatcher
Profile Joined April 2012
Netherlands205 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 18:44:51
September 06 2012 18:43 GMT
#249
Wouldnt it be better if they make the warhound like the goliath (as has been suggested many times), but keep the thor, but make that an anti mech unit or give it atleast a different role (and no more anti air splash). So you have earlier anti air with mech (and no early mech rushes/a move armies), and thors (late game) with a way to break seige tank lines
nottapro
Profile Joined August 2012
202 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 18:49:37
September 06 2012 18:48 GMT
#250
The warhound should be an engineering unit, builds temporary walls for defense / map control, with limited ground melee attack and can clean up viper gas bombs.

Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 18:52:36
September 06 2012 18:52 GMT
#251
I would make it require an armory
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 06 2012 19:46 GMT
#252
At the very least change its model.
MMA: The true King of Wings
Savant7
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom9 Posts
September 06 2012 19:59 GMT
#253
People may not like this but, terran already has A LOT of micro intensive units! Even leapfrogging siege tanks and kiting with hellions/bio is much more than a zerg player has to do with their "roach hug" maneuver. Basically Terran's have got a colossus equivalent unit, finally. I mean I have always experessed discontent at the fact that in TvP your bio MUST kite to be effective, ghost vs HT war is fair, viking vs stalker/colossus war is fair but zealots vs bio is not even, with the terran player needing more APM to be effective in this part of the fight (for those of you saying stutter step is easy, don't forget that you can't do it in just one large clump, you need to move back units that are being hit by colossus/keep the bio ball split up, in fact a "bio ball" is the exact opposite of what you want).

I'm not denying that the warhound is OP from what I've seen from the beta, is it ridiculous! But like others have said it just needs a nerf in terms of changing the numbers around a bit, I've heard a lot of talk about a speed decrease, they are a bit too fast yes, kiting stalkers is pretty ridiculous and even in TvT, kiting bio before stim is out is pretty silly too. To me Terran has always had a higher skill ceiling because of unit control (among other things) than the other two races, which at the highest level any pro player regardless of which race they actually play, do have. People may disagree with me on this but I switch races a lot, and after a long stint of terran, going back to protoss and zerg I found myself much more aware of unit control in terms of splitting against splash damage and flanking etc. because imo being clumped agasint splash damage is the most detrimental to a terran bio force than any other races army in WoL.

Also I hate that as mech is so rare and gimmicky in WoL TvP, the pressure is on T to react to P's build, P can choose many builds, 3 nexus mass gateway, double forge, fast HT, colossus etc. and just very safely assume that terran is going bio, there is very little (besides techy 1 base allins) that you can do to surprise a protoss player. The possibility of early warhound pressure (when its a little less OP) now forces protoss to think more carefully about scouting and reacting to terran, finally allowing the terran to have more control over the game rather than being forced to find weaknesses in the protoss defence, he can now force the protoss to do the same (I want warp prism harassment to become an every game thing in PvT just as medivac drops are in WoL). Some cool things I've seen in beta streams showcasing this are a warhound expand into MMM tech switch etc.

In WoL mech and bio are both viable options in TvT and TvZ, why not TvP too the warhound is the answer (and partly the battle hellion but less so) but not yet the right one I feel. Before the beta came out I really thought warhounds would suck in TvZ and I still think that they should not have a place in that MU, but oddly they do, I hope that a simple stat nerf can fix this, but I fear it may be more complex than this.

TL;DR The Warhound still has a place in HoTS, terran don't have enough A movey units they need roach/zealot/colossus equivalents to take some strain off the already mechanically taxing unit control required to use their existing units effectively.
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
September 06 2012 20:01 GMT
#254
On September 07 2012 03:52 Snowbear wrote:
I would make it require an armory

yeah, instead mines should not require it
Granter
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden64 Posts
September 06 2012 20:04 GMT
#255
Can't understand when people say warhound have to much health, all terran units have dirt low health and damage being pretty low compared to armies like zerg there they have high health high speed and high dps.

Lets just compare.

zealot 150hp, stalker 160hp, sentry 80hp, colossus 350hp. Immortal 250hp. "boss" archon 350hp.

just comparing mineral cost health dps on terran army it's just dirt low compared to both zerg. If terran gets 1unit with 220health it aint like the world is going to end, this argument is totaly damn stupid. One can argue that health compared to damage and mobilityh is to high, but when you say that ye. health to high, that sounds stupid.
If something can be achieved easily, it probably isnt worth it
TigerKarl
Profile Joined November 2010
1757 Posts
September 06 2012 20:11 GMT
#256
Making boring units is one way to kill Starcraft Esports. I hope Blizzard see's what they're producing at the moment, because i don't want Starcraft to die.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
September 06 2012 20:13 GMT
#257
Ayo my only friend with the beta is currently MIA so hopefully I could ask you guys something in here. Simple question really - how many warhounds can you fit in a dropship?
YyapSsap
Profile Joined September 2010
New Zealand1511 Posts
September 06 2012 20:18 GMT
#258
Just scrap the warhound/thor all together and revive a GtA mech unit (range 9, but start with range 6 and can be upgraded to +3) that can handle sky T in a sense that you dont have to end up having viking wars anymore. I really dont get why they dont provide this option instead of forcing the other player to get more vikings OR thors which are too costly/clumsy for this role. Its GtG can be mediocre but thats what the tank is for. They need to go back to the drawing board and revolve mech around the tank, just like how bio is revolved around the marine.

And seeing as there are so many things that kills siege tanks now e.g viper abuct, tempests etc, the tank should be buffed in some sort of way e.g. supply 3->2 or tank damage to 55 (to armoured and bonus to massive also so massive units dont eat all of the tank shots) or they deal full damage to shields or they gain access to that upgrade from SP where the target is dealt +40 more damage (obviously numbers can be changed).

kaokentake
Profile Joined July 2012
383 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 20:24:15
September 06 2012 20:23 GMT
#259
On September 07 2012 05:04 Granter wrote:
Can't understand when people say warhound have to much health, all terran units have dirt low health and damage being pretty low compared to armies like zerg there they have high health high speed and high dps.

Lets just compare.

zealot 150hp, stalker 160hp, sentry 80hp, colossus 350hp. Immortal 250hp. "boss" archon 350hp.

just comparing mineral cost health dps on terran army it's just dirt low compared to both zerg. If terran gets 1unit with 220health it aint like the world is going to end, this argument is totaly damn stupid. One can argue that health compared to damage and mobilityh is to high, but when you say that ye. health to high, that sounds stupid.


your argument is completely invalid. Toss units are designed to have higher health than zerg/terran because shields do not get upgraded with armor.

Terran/zerg have similar healthed units.

Warhounds currently at 2food almost kill 2 roaches which are 4food. This means a 200deathball with warhounds is overpowered. Warhounds with the current statline must cost at least 4food and have its missiles removed to be balanced (as in roaches are immune to missiles). With the missiles the warhound are as strong as a 5food unit.

Warhounds are equal to 2roaches and practically the same cost. This is retarded as roaches are the most cost effective unit in the game and terran/protoss are not allowed to have units that equal the roach in cost effectiveness (because the roach is high supply but cost effective meaning it is not supply effective, thats its design). For example 4roaches at 300/100 will destroy an immortal that costs 250/100 (but costs twice the food). Roaches are supposed to be cost effective but high in supply. Because warhounds are AS COST EFFECTIVE as roaches, thats overpowered. Cost also needs to be increased


roach 75/25/2 140/145 health

marauder 100/25/2 125health


hydralisk 100/50/2 90health
hellion 100/0/2 90health

thor 300/200/6 400health (in comparison, 3 roaches at equal food beats out the thor by 40health which isnt bad considering thors 7range and higher DPS)

1 ultralisk 300/200/6 500health
1 BC 400/300/6 550health
BC is alot more expensive but they fly and are ranged and have yamato




warhound will be nerfed heavily or removed, no point in even debating it. Warhound anywhere near its current state destroys the game. Ill take 5000 dollar bets at 30 to 1 odds on it.
Ghostdav
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada129 Posts
September 06 2012 20:23 GMT
#260
In my opinion, if you make it so that Warhounds can't autocast their missiles, it would semi fix them.
It's quite alright, goodbye for now.
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