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United States7483 Posts
On August 15 2012 12:32 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:54 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:On August 15 2012 10:17 MassacrisM wrote:
I really hate it. Another very poorly designed unit that looks like so little effort and thought was put in.
I swear if Blizzard lets this one go through, they're gonna hate themselves like they are doing now with the Colossi. The colossus might be a cheap, simple unit - it goes up cliffs AND has long range - but doesn't attack air - but it DOES look cool and it does seem like something the Protoss might have - it fits in the lore and it's kinda sweet as a unit from a purely cool factor. I won't deny the 'skills' the unit has seem a little odd, compared to how BW was balanced but it's not as bad as people say. The Warhound however is completely out of Warzone 2100, C&C and Supreme Commander, it's just....yeah Sure, the feel of the unit can fit the Protoss, but the problem is the balance design. The entire Protoss race is designed around this unit; you simply cannot get past the early game without going down this specific tech path at some point (which is far different from saying that "oh every T has to get Marines!"). The Colossus is also poorl designed because there is no micro potential and it promotes (requires) deathball styles.
There definitely is micro potential, it's just less obvious. Watch any high level PvP that gets to late game and you'll see what I mean. Hell, one of the coolest things to watch is warp prism/colossus micro.
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On August 15 2012 12:35 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:32 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 15 2012 10:54 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:On August 15 2012 10:17 MassacrisM wrote:
I really hate it. Another very poorly designed unit that looks like so little effort and thought was put in.
I swear if Blizzard lets this one go through, they're gonna hate themselves like they are doing now with the Colossi. The colossus might be a cheap, simple unit - it goes up cliffs AND has long range - but doesn't attack air - but it DOES look cool and it does seem like something the Protoss might have - it fits in the lore and it's kinda sweet as a unit from a purely cool factor. I won't deny the 'skills' the unit has seem a little odd, compared to how BW was balanced but it's not as bad as people say. The Warhound however is completely out of Warzone 2100, C&C and Supreme Commander, it's just....yeah Sure, the feel of the unit can fit the Protoss, but the problem is the balance design. The entire Protoss race is designed around this unit; you simply cannot get past the early game without going down this specific tech path at some point (which is far different from saying that "oh every T has to get Marines!"). The Colossus is also poorl designed because there is no micro potential and it promotes (requires) deathball styles. There definitely is micro potential, it's just less obvious. Watch any high level PvP that gets to late game and you'll see what I mean. Hell, one of the coolest things to watch is warp prism/colossus micro.
I really hope you're being sarcastic.
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On August 15 2012 11:32 Wrathsc2 wrote:
the beta isnt even out yet TT
But, at least if were vocal with out opinions Blizzard will have more time resolving the issues, or at least look into them. That's the whole point of giving us battle reports.
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"wait until the beta" is not a good idea. Beta's aren't for testing units and decided if they should be removed. That's something that CAN happen, but the ideal is to remove them before the game has progressed this far into testing. Beta testing is to remove bugs. At this point, features in the game are supposed to stay the same. Because of the way sc2 has to be balanced, this obviously isn't possible, but they will be very reluctant to remove whole units during beta testing.
I like it though, I think it looks badass. I really think terran should be the deathball army if anything. At least terran can be caught off guard because the siege tanks have to be sieged. At that point it can be a game of tactics and strategy. Whereas if Zerg gets that ultimate BL army there's really not much to can do without some sort of unusual advantage. Same thing for Protoss really.
Warhound and hellion are designed to kill protoss deathballs. Tempest is designed to kill terran deathballs. Seems cool to me.
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On August 15 2012 09:58 PMACProspekt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 01:50 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.
They just don't realize how stupid that is. Current Terran units already require lots of micro to maximize effectiveness, what's wrong with having a couple a-click units in the mix? You really want to make Terran players micro even more than they already have to? Because at a pro level, players are already able to micro units without sacrificing macro. Therefore, this would make for a higher skill ceiling for the whole game.
Not true. Any action you do sacrifices something else. Anyone less than the top level is not doing well, and this is evident in tournament results. Giving terran players more micro does NOT make the skill ceiling higher for the entire game, but only for terran. However, this "skill" is not exactly directly related to how well they do. Anyone who performs less than the top level (can't micro good enough) does poorly, but they can't just buff terran or else the top players who CAN micro really well will juts stomp (as seen in the past, and even uncommonly in the current day).
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On August 15 2012 12:37 GinDo wrote:But, at least if were vocal with out opinions Blizzard will have more time resolving the issues, or at least look into them. That's the whole point of giving us battle reports.
i get being vocal about the looks. But a lot of people are saying its just an A-move unit and that its 1 dimensional. Everyone said this about the marauder. but look at the unit now. Its awesome when tanking bane damage. Doing drop micro to kill colossi, target firing tanks while marines handle hellions and so on. The unit may look one dimensional, but honestly the marauder is fucking awesome to watch in the hands of a good player. What i am saying is, give it a chance.
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United States7483 Posts
On August 15 2012 12:36 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:35 Whitewing wrote:On August 15 2012 12:32 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 15 2012 10:54 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:On August 15 2012 10:17 MassacrisM wrote:
I really hate it. Another very poorly designed unit that looks like so little effort and thought was put in.
I swear if Blizzard lets this one go through, they're gonna hate themselves like they are doing now with the Colossi. The colossus might be a cheap, simple unit - it goes up cliffs AND has long range - but doesn't attack air - but it DOES look cool and it does seem like something the Protoss might have - it fits in the lore and it's kinda sweet as a unit from a purely cool factor. I won't deny the 'skills' the unit has seem a little odd, compared to how BW was balanced but it's not as bad as people say. The Warhound however is completely out of Warzone 2100, C&C and Supreme Commander, it's just....yeah Sure, the feel of the unit can fit the Protoss, but the problem is the balance design. The entire Protoss race is designed around this unit; you simply cannot get past the early game without going down this specific tech path at some point (which is far different from saying that "oh every T has to get Marines!"). The Colossus is also poorl designed because there is no micro potential and it promotes (requires) deathball styles. There definitely is micro potential, it's just less obvious. Watch any high level PvP that gets to late game and you'll see what I mean. Hell, one of the coolest things to watch is warp prism/colossus micro. I really hope you're being sarcastic.
No I'm really not. Every unit in the game has micro potential, by sheer virtue of a controlled unit being flat out better than an uncontrolled unit. Late game Colossus wars are completely about positioning and army control, a large portion of that is about pulling back and pushing forwards with your colossi, along with target firing the correct units.
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The design problem:
Its attack looks weak, it's like shooting small needles.
It looks ESPECIALLY Weak when it is kiting because you can't even see the animation of the "recoil" from the firing anymore.
they need to make it sound and look more powerful. Just like the siege tank, whenever you hear the siege tank fire, you feel uneasy whe breaking the siege lines.
The balance/mech style problem:
I think warhound will allows a mech-ing terran opening up timing attacks for the mech style.
As well as able to secure expansions earlier.
But I don't think timing attack suits mech style
Good points:
it allows terran to have a strong late game army.
mech deathball in WoL is one of the strongest deathball in the whole game, but only viable in TvT and TvZ simply because toss has a much easier time to deal with it.
So with this, mech can be used in all matchup which I like a lot.
Warhound also allows terran to expand earlier, rather than relying on siege tank and banshee to buy time for a third. Not sure how it will affect the balance but mech will be different to what we used to see.
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On August 15 2012 12:43 Wrathsc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:37 GinDo wrote:On August 15 2012 11:32 Wrathsc2 wrote:
the beta isnt even out yet TT But, at least if were vocal with out opinions Blizzard will have more time resolving the issues, or at least look into them. That's the whole point of giving us battle reports. i get being vocal about the looks. But a lot of people are saying its just an A-move unit and that its 1 dimensional. Everyone said this about the marauder. but look at the unit now. Its awesome when tanking bane damage. Doing drop micro to kill colossi, target firing tanks while marines handle hellions and so on. The unit may look one dimensional, but honestly the marauder is fucking awesome to watch in the hands of a good player. What i am saying is, give it a chance.
When people were complaining about the Marauder back in the early days, they were right. It is still a boring, generic unit that eliminates the micro potential of its targets and is entirely too powerful and effective for its cost and position in the tech tree. Yea, it has a little micro potential because it can be stupidly fast with Stim, but most of the things you mentioned can be given to just about any unit; things like being able to be dropped to harass, being able to target fire, focus firing, and proper positioning don't really consitute micro potential because every unit has this by the mere fact that it's a unit that moves. When you think of micro potential, you think of Siege Tanks (positional micro beyond the norm), Hellions (constant micro battles against Zerglings), Marines (splitting vs. splash or instant death), BW Mutas/Vultures/Wraiths/Raver + Shuttle, etc. These units have the potential to be manipulated beyond the norms of simply being a unit. When a unit such as the Roach, Marauder, Immortal, Colossus, Broodlord, Warhound, Battle Hellion, Tempest, etc. don't really have any micro capability beyond what is expected out of any unit, that is when you say that it doesn't have micro potential. This isn't even necessarily a bad thing; obviously not every single unit is going to have crazy micro potential, but when units that form the core/most important part of armies is this boring (Marauders, Roaches, Colossi), it's a problem because these are the units that we see every game.
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Warhound is not good. I doubt it will be changed significantly at this point. Maybe Legacy of the Void will address it.
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As much as I hate the unit, we need this to replace the function of the marine and the thor as cannon fodder/damage dealers.
It's a giant piece of shit in the middle of the battlefield that's impossible not to kill first, while the actual damage dealers will survive much longer. Can't live with it, can't live without it, so it has to stay. Tanks live long enough to justify their cost, marines will be able to use them as a barrier to kite around, thors will live so much longer...Terran just needs 1 unit that can be A-moved for the sake of allowing all the other units to do their respective jobs.
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United States7483 Posts
On August 15 2012 13:01 imBLIND wrote:
As much as I hate the unit, we need this to replace the function of the marine and the thor as cannon fodder/damage dealers.
It's a giant piece of shit in the middle of the battlefield that's impossible not to kill first, while the actual damage dealers will survive much longer. Can't live with it, can't live without it, so it has to stay. Tanks live long enough to justify their cost, marines will be able to use them as a barrier to kite around, thors will live so much longer...Terran just needs 1 unit that can be A-moved for the sake of allowing all the other units to do their respective jobs.
Battle hellions.
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On August 15 2012 12:34 gengka wrote:
make it more gundam like please
Probably the only criticism in this thread that I can get behind.  gogo Wing Zero Warhound.
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The missile animation looks pretty cool, but that's the only thing about it that does. It's a boring unit, in both aesthetics and gameplay. Apparently this is what they were going for (giving Terran more A-move for balance), but that doesn't make it any less disappointing.
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On August 15 2012 01:52 Shiori wrote:
Get rid of the a-clicking and it'll be fine. Redesign the art design too.
Yeah blizzard should just remove attack moving from the game and force us to right click the units we want to attack.
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It also poops on protoss units like an ultralisk on laxatives.
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On August 15 2012 13:38 drgonzhere wrote:
It also poops on protoss units like an ultralisk on laxatives.
Like a colossus on marines.
Like a colossus on everything.
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Some decent mech AA would be really welcome. Weaker DPS vs ground than a stimmed marine, weaker DPS vs air than a viking. Provides a versatile mech unit in all the matchups.
Instead terran gets a mechnical marauder to fill a role the siege tank should already be performing.
There's so much bad about the unit but instead of writing an essay on the matter, i'd rather just add my dissent to most other people's.
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United States7483 Posts
On August 15 2012 13:57 Absentia wrote:
Some decent mech AA would be really welcome. Weaker DPS vs ground than a stimmed marine, weaker DPS vs air than a viking. Provides a versatile mech unit in all the matchups.
Instead terran gets a mechnical marauder to fill a role the siege tank should already be performing.
There's so much bad about the unit but instead of writing an essay on the matter, i'd rather just add my dissent to most other people's.
The viking is intended to fill that role. Them having a separate upgrade path is a valid complaint about that, but it is a reactor-produced powerful anti-air unit with really good range, so it's not like terran doesn't have good anti-air. Terran doesn't really need more anti-air.
The role of the warhound is supposed to be a tank-line busting unit against a weak spot, so that mech vs. mech doesn't stalemate. I don't think it's necessary, but if blizzard wants to do that, I think the best way to do that would be to make it a defensively focused unit rather than a powerful damage dealer. Give them a self-cast defensive matrix instead of the missile cannon.
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On August 15 2012 13:57 Absentia wrote:
....terran gets a mechnical marauder to fill a role the siege tank should already be performing.
Agree! +10
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EPT
