EPTMengsk and Tychus
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
And, well, the goal of Mengsk in that is to kill Kerrigan, he can't do it if he reveal himself before. | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On May 31 2011 06:37 PraetorialGamer wrote: I think that you could answer this just by using the search function, but I'll just tell you anyway. Mengsk supposedly wanted Tychus to kill Kerrigan. Other than that, Tychus was free to do whatever Raynor wanted him to do, at his discretion. Mengsk had no intention of making Tychus a spy, as that would have made Tychus even more conflicted with his regards towards Raynor, and would have blown his cover almost immediately. I think you could know better by using logic, but I'll help you anyway. Mengsk was obviously recieving information from Tychus or his suit. He was chatting in Tychus's ear telling him to take the shot. How did he know Tychus was standing next to Kerrigan? Mengsk has a tool like Tychus at his disposal, which he is constantly in communication with (to give orders for the finding of artifacts), why would he not use this to stop his political destruction? And how would Tychus acting as a spy blow his cover? Tychus isn't dumb. He knows who Mengsk is. He knew he was making a deal with the devil. He obviously wasn't super in love with Raynor (from the fight scene..drunk Tychus tells his feelings of betrayal). | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On May 31 2011 06:35 Noocta wrote: I don't think Mengsk knew it was Tychus in the Odin. And, well, the goal of Mengsk in that is to kill Kerrigan, he can't do it if he reveal himself before. He wouldn't have to reveal his hand to stop the broadcast. Just be prepared enough that the mission fails for some reason. There are indirect ways to stop someone from accomplishing goals. | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
The bar scene was a plot device, not necessarily a good one, but a plot device nevertheless. Also, read:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208963, and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142876 | ||
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optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
Mengsk is okay with whatever he does as long as he kills Kerrigan. The part where Tychus destroys Mengsk's broadcasting station, Mengsk probably did not know he was the one inside the Odin. There are conflcits, as people have pointed out that there are video cameras as there was no way that Mengsk would have known that he was next to Kerrigan. Good point made, I just realized that right now. -Video camera proof = telling him to kill kerrigan -Let Tychus trash his city The only other reasonable explanation would be that Mengsk let Tychus ruin his city, thinking it would be an investment to kill Kerrigan. (though those Starports and Banshees cost a lot of money >.>) | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On May 31 2011 07:03 PraetorialGamer wrote: Well, I suppose that Tychus could have had his suit broadcasting information, but as for the spy bit: telepaths(Tosh mentions Tychus's intent vaguely at one point, and he's just one person) would catch him very quickly, not to mention Mengsk having perfect intel being just a little suspicious. The bar scene was a plot device, not necessarily a good one, but a plot device nevertheless. Also, read:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208963, and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142876 Neither thread had a valid answer to my question. I don't care as much after reading all the crap that people think. | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On May 31 2011 08:10 Carmine wrote: Neither thread had a valid answer to my question. I don't care as much after reading all the crap that people think. You raise a good strained point of the plot, but a different possibility is that Mengsk simply didn't monitor Tychus frequently (he has things to do, after all). He occasionally tells him to grab artifacts, but that's not really constant surveillance. Perhaps directly as a result of the broadcast he began monitoring Tychus more frequently. Or, he just didn't start monitoring Tychus frequently until they took to the surface of Char and Kerrigan was so near to his grasp that Mengsk felt it was worth it to observe Tychus's every step. Why didn't Mengsk have some flunky watching Tychus's feed 24/7? Perhaps it was just a bit of oversight or incompetence. Not really plot-breaking, though. | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
I don't care how many strings Matt Horner pulls he couldn't make that happen. | ||
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Telenil
France484 Posts
That's official BlizzCon lore. So let's recpaitulate the situation: Mengsk still doesn't know that Raynor and Tychus are about to go on Char. He suddenly realises that Raynor's Raiders are attacking Khoral and broadcasting a report about him. Tychus, his double agent, failed to tell him about this major Raiders plan, which already makes his loyalty dubious. A natural thing to do would be to try contact him, or at least check where Tychus is during the assault. Even if the transponder is not precise enough to tell Tychus is in the Odin, it seems reasonnable to assume it can show that Tychus is on the same planet (the transponder is "sophisticated" after all). So not only did Tychus hide the Raiders' strategy, he also took an active role in the attack. Mengsk should have killed him outright - remember that the "kill Kerrigan and you are free" deal came much later. Tychus WAS released to become a spy, and even if Mengsk had no way to know anything else, the simple fact that Tychus didn't warn him about the Odin-Khoral scheme shows that he can't be trusted. So it's "suspension of disbelief", as Metzen said about an other event. Which is lame, IMO. | ||
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nitdkim
1264 Posts
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Falcon-sw
United States324 Posts
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On May 31 2011 21:22 Falcon-sw wrote: As much as Tychus wasn't necessarily Raynor's best friend, he chose death over killing Kerrigan, knowing Raynor wanted Kerrigan to live. What? Tychus DID decide he was going to kill Kerrigan, that's why Raynor shot him. | ||
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
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TheGiz
Canada708 Posts
On May 31 2011 22:43 thoradycus wrote: Didnt Tychus have a transponder? If yes, why didnt Mengsk know that Tychus and co. attacked the Odin facility? Yes, his suit was a transponder. That was Mengsk's trump card though, and regardless of what he knew of Raynor's activities through Tychus, Mengsk couldn't play his trump card until the ultimate moment arrived, like when Tychus was starting Mengsk's strongest enemy in the face. I bet Mengsk didn't know everything Tychus was doing all the time either. Plus, it's just side missions. | ||
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s[O]rry
Canada398 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On May 31 2011 15:32 Telenil wrote: Andy Chambers said that Tychus was NOT released to kill Kerrigan, because Arcturus didn't know he would ever get close to her. Which is perfectly normal, releasing a random marine and telling him "here, cut your way through a million zerg and kill the greatest mass murderer of our time and you'll be free" isn't something anyone would do. Mengsk is clever but can't see the future, as Chambers put it. He also stated that Tychus was released as a spy, Mengsk had no particular plan in mind, but he expected an opportunity would present itself once Raynor has a spy as his number 2. That's official BlizzCon lore. So let's recpaitulate the situation: Mengsk still doesn't know that Raynor and Tychus are about to go on Char. He suddenly realises that Raynor's Raiders are attacking Khoral and broadcasting a report about him. Tychus, his double agent, failed to tell him about this major Raiders plan, which already makes his loyalty dubious. A natural thing to do would be to try contact him, or at least check where Tychus is during the assault. Even if the transponder is not precise enough to tell Tychus is in the Odin, it seems reasonnable to assume it can show that Tychus is on the same planet (the transponder is "sophisticated" after all). So not only did Tychus hide the Raiders' strategy, he also took an active role in the attack. Mengsk should have killed him outright - remember that the "kill Kerrigan and you are free" deal came much later. Tychus WAS released to become a spy, and even if Mengsk had no way to know anything else, the simple fact that Tychus didn't warn him about the Odin-Khoral scheme shows that he can't be trusted. So it's "suspension of disbelief", as Metzen said about an other event. Which is lame, IMO. I never said he was released to kill Kerrigan. I said if Tychus is Mengsk's tool, then why did he allow him to screw him over so bad (mainly the upload of the video)? Mengsk really cared a lot less about Kerrigan than he cared about keeping his political power. He was urging him to take the shot at Kerrigan which proves that he has intimate knowledge of what Tychus is doing. I can't beleive that Mengsk is so dumb that the adjuctant (sp?) is found and he doesn't monitor Tychus closely. He must just be that dumb. Or he relies on Tychus truthfully reporting the intel so he can decide whether to kill Tychus or not (lol). | ||
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Falcon-sw
United States324 Posts
On May 31 2011 22:07 Jojo131 wrote: What? Tychus DID decide he was going to kill Kerrigan, that's why Raynor shot him. Nah. Tychus could have easily killed her if he wanted to. Instead, he took his time, warned Raynor, and then gave Raynor ample time to stop him. For a ruthless killing machine, he sure hesitated. | ||
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Gibbas
United States11 Posts
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On June 02 2011 00:31 Gibbas wrote: I think the main point of the Brood War campaign was that Arcturus Mengsk doesn't care about anybody or anything. I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to let Raynor take the Odin and kill some people on Korhal if it will give Mengsk more reason to place even more blame Raynor's Raiders. Mengsk, afterall, threw a whole planet to the zerg just to get the Confederacy. Mengsk had enough power and money to rebuild Korhal after being Apocalypsed. And Mengsk had an opportunity, in Tychus, to take out the Queen of Blades. It seems reasonable enough to me that he would sacrifice a capitol city, a new robot, or even his own son to solidify his rule in the sector. I agree that he would sacrifice the Odin and the city to just make make raynor lose credibility or even for a shot to kill him. I don't think Mengsk would allow raynor to upload the video from the adjuctant. It completely undermined him politically. I think that you are overestimating how much Mengsk cares about Kerrigan. He didn't even release Tychus to kill Kerrigan. He released him as a spy on raynor. On June 02 2011 00:19 Falcon-sw wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2011 22:07 Jojo131 wrote: What? Tychus DID decide he was going to kill Kerrigan, that's why Raynor shot him. Nah. Tychus could have easily killed her if he wanted to. Instead, he took his time, warned Raynor, and then gave Raynor ample time to stop him. For a ruthless killing machine, he sure hesitated. What? He was in the act of killing her when he was stopped. I don't think he realized how much raynor wanted her alive. (raynor being the ONLY terran down there that wanted her alive...except maybe scientist guy so he could study.) I think he expected to get in a fight with raynor maybe but the other soldiers would stop it because killing the queen of blades isn't something that gets a soldier put up against the wall. The entire story of Tychus is based off of his selfishness. He went SO far out of his way, and betrayed an old friend (who had in his opinion betrayed him before) just to save his life. Why would he even draw his weapon on her if he didn't plan to kill her? He didn't need raynor to kill him, his suit would do just fine if he didn't take the shot. | ||
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Falcon-sw
United States324 Posts
Why would he even draw his weapon on her if he didn't plan to kill her? He didn't need raynor to kill him, his suit would do just fine if he didn't take the shot. Mengsk was standing by to shut down his organs if he disobeyed. He chose to take a bullet between the eyes instead. It was a tough spot to be in, and he chose to die and remain a friend to Raynor. The death Tychus chose was quicker and less painful than the one Mengsk had at the ready for him. | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
On June 02 2011 02:25 Falcon-sw wrote: + Show Spoiler + Why would he even draw his weapon on her if he didn't plan to kill her? He didn't need raynor to kill him, his suit would do just fine if he didn't take the shot. Mengsk was standing by to shut down his organs if he disobeyed. He chose to take a bullet between the eyes instead. It was a tough spot to be in, and he chose to die and remain a friend to Raynor. The death Tychus chose was quicker and less painful than the one Mengsk had at the ready for him. The spoiler is me going too far to explain why falcon's post is bad. It is obviously bad I hope to smart people...I probably shouldn't have responded so I decided on spoilering it so you don't have to read it if you don't want to. + Show Spoiler + But if those were his two motivations. A. remaining a friend to Raynor. B. Avoiding painful death by suit. Then I think he could have just killed himself. He could have even left a little note for Raynor that was like: hey ol' buddy..mengsk wanted me to kill your girlfriend, but I couldn't do it. I really appreciate all those ol' times riding around with you on your vulture. | ||
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Ghoststrikes
Canada1356 Posts
On June 02 2011 00:19 Falcon-sw wrote: Nah. Tychus could have easily killed her if he wanted to. Instead, he took his time, warned Raynor, and then gave Raynor ample time to stop him. For a ruthless killing machine, he sure hesitated. ^this I agree that Tychus, throught the WoL storyline became real friends with Raynor and decided to fail his mission, even if he wouldn't admit it before he died. | ||
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