EPTIt just seems like a cop-out that the type of templar being merged has no effect on the resulting archon, when there were two distinct units in brood war.
What happened to Dark Archons?
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
It just seems like a cop-out that the type of templar being merged has no effect on the resulting archon, when there were two distinct units in brood war. | ||
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FreezerJumps
Canada653 Posts
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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Maggy
Denmark62 Posts
Just change the color for the cosmetic purpose | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
I think it would add confusion, but it would be a good little "optional" thing, just to give nostalgia. We have blue immortal goo on high graphics... | ||
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legaton
France1763 Posts
Still, i wonder how they will retcon that. | ||
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Allred
United States352 Posts
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
Of course this is just a quickly thought up stupid scenario but aesthetic changes could affect the game | ||
MasterOfChaos
Germany2896 Posts
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
On March 12 2011 06:58 MasterOfChaos wrote: I stole them all. Epic. You sir, have made my day. : P | ||
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bargaw
Poland36 Posts
We just need to herp derp find the gateway/stargate/robo and place a PYLON to continue downlo..ekhm warping in. | ||
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Southpaw3353
Canada28 Posts
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iSometric
2221 Posts
On March 12 2011 06:58 MasterOfChaos wrote: I stole them all. HEY! Give them back. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
His basement. They're trapped in his basement while he rapes them. | ||
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
On March 12 2011 06:58 MasterOfChaos wrote: I stole them all. Can I buy one off of you? o: On topic: I really miss Dark Archons too  Although I rarely used them in BW, they DID have a good arsenal of spells. If they were in SC2 (or some substitute at least), maybe Protoss would have too many spells? Sentries, high templars, Stalkers (and zealots), mothership make up a good, reasonable of spells to use I think. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On March 12 2011 06:58 MasterOfChaos wrote: I stole them all. lmfao. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Well, this is SC2 not BW. Also, the HT has feedback (one of DA's abilities). | ||
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Slago
Canada726 Posts
On March 12 2011 10:27 slimshady wrote: If I understood you right, you want the Dark Archon back. Well, this is SC2 not BW. Also, the HT has feedback (one of DA's abilities). he just wants to differentiate between HT archons and DT archons, even if it's just cosmetic, maybe you should read the OP before you post  | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
In rare cases, it would giveaway your tech. Say zerg is about to attack you with tons of zerglings and you haven't been able to DT harass with two DTs you just warped in. You realize that the splash damage of the archon will be more beneficial to saving your base and then your opponent sees a red archon and realizes you have a dark shrine and proceeds to place detection at every base. I just want you to think about your logic here for a moment.... + Show Spoiler + Only way yer DT harass fails is if there already IS detection, and a failed DT drop already tells the opponent you have DTs | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On March 12 2011 11:51 Tictock wrote: I just want you to think about your logic here for a moment.... + Show Spoiler + Only way yer DT harass fails is if there already IS detection, and a failed DT drop already tells the opponent you have DTs I think he means in some odd situation where you just had your dark shrine finish? | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
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Ghostpvp
United States462 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On March 12 2011 10:27 slimshady wrote: If I understood you right, you want the Dark Archon back. Well, this is SC2 not BW. Also, the HT has feedback (one of DA's abilities). but no maelstorm, DA's best spell ! | ||
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yrag89
Malaysia315 Posts
They gave it to zerg. | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
On March 12 2011 06:58 MasterOfChaos wrote: I stole them all. LOL | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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DisaFear
Australia4074 Posts
Maybe in the expansions. I'd like to see a two-headed zergling | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On March 12 2011 06:37 Allred wrote: i think the one small down side is lets say you merged 2 dark templar for some strange reason and they hadn't scouted that you had them yet etc and you had regular templar out on the field it could let them know that you have a dark shrine... it actually costs more to merge archons with dts, and really, there is no real use to making dts archons but there WAS use to making dark archons in BW because they were unique spell casters. So yeah people really shouldn't be using dts for archons, they really cost more than HT and you get the same unit... | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
About the color, giving information about a tech tree choice, if you want your mineral heavy archons dts, gas heavy archons hts. would be easy to know for the opponent that way what your next warp in on units will be. Also if he would see red archons he would knew there will be something in my mineral lines soon, have to put up spines and spores. Also confusion in the mirror. But I would say the main reason is in the story. Was so sad how clerics died out from warcraft 1 to warcraft 2, but due to that the paladin arrived :O | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
Like I said, there is no point to making archons out of dts because 1.) dts are invisible, archons are not 2.) dts have extremely high DPS and are melee, archons are basically melee. Even if you opponent has detectors, the point is that they need detectors and by splitting dts and doing multi-pronged attacks you basically make your opponent waste resources getting more detectors. I'm not against this idea, but I think blizzard will probably bring back DA's eventually so I see no point in this. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On March 12 2011 19:22 emc wrote: dts are more gas expensive than ht, it's more expensive to use dts for archons. Like I said, there is no point to making archons out of dts because 1.) dts are invisible, archons are not 2.) dts have extremely high DPS and are melee, archons are basically melee. Even if you opponent has detectors, the point is that they need detectors and by splitting dts and doing multi-pronged attacks you basically make your opponent waste resources getting more detectors. I'm not against this idea, but I think blizzard will probably bring back DA's eventually so I see no point in this. ... no theyre not. | ||
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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
keep ht+ht into archon, you loose 2 spellcasters for a attack unit with 350/10 hp keep dt+dt into dark archon (malestorm, mind control), you loose 2 attack units for a spellcaster with 200/20 hp bring back dire archon, ht+dt, into a hybrid unit, 275/15 hp, with one ability (something like spirit link from war3?) | ||
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PhantomHybrid
United Kingdom47 Posts
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pfods
United States895 Posts
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d3_crescentia
United States4054 Posts
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On March 12 2011 06:58 MasterOfChaos wrote: I stole them all. You wouldn't happen to be from the MoC clan from BW would you? | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
always thought they were, I stand corrected but it's a 25 gas difference I still see no reason to merge dts into archons when they force detection and archons don't. there is a reason pros never use dts for archons and there is a reason why ht with no energy are used. | ||
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On March 13 2011 07:12 emc wrote: always thought they were, I stand corrected but it's a 25 gas difference I still see no reason to merge dts into archons when they force detection and archons don't. there is a reason pros never use dts for archons and there is a reason why ht with no energy are used. what lol. What do you mean DTs force detection and Archons don't? you think people will make a dark shrine just so that they can the opponent to make detection. Obviously you would merge archons AFTER the DTs had done their job. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On March 13 2011 11:36 NexUmbra wrote: what lol. What do you mean DTs force detection and Archons don't? you think people will make a dark shrine just so that they can the opponent to make detection. Obviously you would merge archons AFTER the DTs had done their job. k, well next time you see a pro match where someone merges DTs into archons then let me know, seriously I'd LOVE to see it. | ||
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Maynarde
Australia1286 Posts
And Zerg needs it! So there. | ||
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Flaxler
Germany57 Posts
On March 13 2011 12:01 emc wrote: k, well next time you see a pro match where someone merges DTs into archons then let me know, seriously I'd LOVE to see it. Liquid'TLO vs Rigid(?) on scrap at some tlopen, dt shrine gets detected and he made a push with archons. | ||
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TerrorBird
Canada58 Posts
On March 12 2011 19:22 emc wrote: k, well next time you see a pro match where someone merges DTs into archons then let me know, seriously I'd LOVE to see it. I have seen iNcontroL do that on his stream numerous times. | ||
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GoonSack
New Zealand36 Posts
On March 13 2011 12:01 emc wrote: k, well next time you see a pro match where someone merges DTs into archons then let me know, seriously I'd LOVE to see it. MC also went dt > morph archon against MVP in the GSTL | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 12 2011 09:21 Jibba wrote: It would make complete sense and actually give the Dark Shrine some purpose, but alas Dark Archons have gone to the same place where Metzen rapes all of Blizzard's storylines. His basement. They're trapped in his basement while he rapes them. I hope they'll eventually bring that man to justice.  | ||
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joyeaux
United States169 Posts
On March 12 2011 16:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: The greatest tragedy in SC2 is that there is no way to recreate the Royal Stove. Yes there is a way! Infester can neural parasite a probe, make a nexus with it, and eventually get a mothership. Then you neural parasite an SCV and make a command center with it (this requires back-to-back neural parasites until CC is done), eventually you can tech to tanks. Unlikely that it will ever happen in a real game and impossible in 1v1, but it's *possible* in 2v2. Ironic that the only race that can potentially mass recall sieged tanks is the one that has neither mass recall nor siege tanks. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On March 12 2011 16:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: The greatest tragedy in SC2 is that there is no way to recreate the Royal Stove. wait, i know what the stove is (dt, scout, arbiter), but what is the royal stove? o.O | ||
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
On March 14 2011 23:05 da_head wrote: wait, i know what the stove is (dt, scout, arbiter), but what is the royal stove? o.O dt -> scout -> arbiter -> DARK ARCHON -> MC A SCV -> MAKE TANKS -> RECALL TANKS YEAHHHHH in a nutshell | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On March 12 2011 09:21 Jibba wrote: It would make complete sense and actually give the Dark Shrine some purpose, but alas Dark Archons have gone to the same place where Metzen rapes all of Blizzard's storylines. His basement. They're trapped in his basement while he rapes them. Haha reminds me of that south park episode where George Lucas rapes Indiana Jones and Star Wars Lolz Just changing the colour seems pretty pointless, and the dark archons wern't all that amazing in the first place in comparison to the archons. I don't think it's good for any competetive game to have different colours for the same unit. It'd just add confusion. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On March 14 2011 23:17 Conversion wrote: dt -> scout -> arbiter -> DARK ARCHON -> MC A SCV -> MAKE TANKS -> RECALL TANKS YEAHHHHH in a nutshell wut. seriously lol? anyone have a pro-game of this actually happening? | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19054 Posts
On March 12 2011 11:51 Tictock wrote: I just want you to think about your logic here for a moment.... + Show Spoiler + Only way yer DT harass fails is if there already IS detection, and a failed DT drop already tells the opponent you have DTs What I think he means is that just as you warp in 2 DTs to do some harassment, 40 speedlings stampede your natural, IE, having a powerful unit with splash would be really nice right now, rather than trying to force a base trade. | ||
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Pyth121
United States34 Posts
On March 15 2011 00:35 Euronyme wrote: Haha reminds me of that south park episode where George Lucas rapes Indiana Jones and Star Wars Lolz Just changing the colour seems pretty pointless, and the dark archons wern't all that amazing in the first place in comparison to the archons. I don't think it's good for any competetive game to have different colours for the same unit. It'd just add confusion. What... you mean like DT's are now? You may have noticed they are not all the same...  | ||
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Royalal
58 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On March 12 2011 05:37 FreezerJumps wrote: They removed the dark archon from the game, as is the case with many other units. Different coloured archons would just add confusion. How confusing can it be when you look at the unit and it has all of the same functions and characteristics as the normal archon... Except color. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On March 15 2011 07:32 Royalal wrote: Were Dark Archons all that useful in brood war? I only played brood war casually when I was younger so my games were rarely serious. I just used them to steal workers and build up 3 race armies. You saw them on occasion to deal with the muta stack harass. Maelstrom them and then the corsairs and dragoons can work on them. Was pretty efficient as well, since that harass was meant to buy time for the follow up consisting of 5 hatch hydra most often. | ||
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mDuo13
United States307 Posts
Or am I tripping? | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On March 15 2011 09:33 mDuo13 wrote: Wasn't the storyline excuse something to do with the dark archons being "cleansed" and the regular protoss being tainted or whatever so that the different sorts of templars aren't spiritually different anymore? So even though they look and act like "regular" archons, SC2 archons are really all sort of a mix between light and dark archons anyway? Or am I tripping? They had feedback and were called Twilight Archons in alpha, so they were a mix of both Archons, but not anymore. I have no idea about the lore, in Blizzard games it's always gameplay over lore, that's why for example only Night Elfs had Druids in WC3, but not in WoW. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
The Dark Archon however I'm not sure how it would be explained away. Supposedly Dark Archon's are a last resort thing and are looked down upon because dark templars are individualistic and have to merge. Not only that, but the ability to mind control others is probably something looked down on but I only remember Zearatul having a problem with the later. The thing is the lore for Colossus was they were terrible weapons of war made only for killing. The reaver while also devastating had a non combat purpose (can't remember atm) so the Colossus were sealed away only brought back out now out of desperation. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/colossus (seems like they edited down the entry from pre release version) | ||
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lundell100
Sweden232 Posts
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Evoshadow
United States88 Posts
Most pros think that the that those 2 DTs will be useful again in the future and that stops them from merging their DTs, There probably are times when your would merge them, for example your harassment fails completely your oppoenent just got a raven and is about to push out with a large bio army, You know you will lose without the archon. It is a bit of a long shot though | ||
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SimpleNEasy
United States22 Posts
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
On March 15 2011 14:33 BlackMagister wrote: Well Blizzard attempts to make lore explanations sometimes. The vulture was removed supposedly because it was unreliable maintenance wise according to the mechanic on the Hyperion. The Dark Archon however I'm not sure how it would be explained away. Supposedly Dark Archon's are a last resort thing and are looked down upon because dark templars are individualistic and have to merge. Not only that, but the ability to mind control others is probably something looked down on but I only remember Zearatul having a problem with the later. The thing is the lore for Colossus was they were terrible weapons of war made only for killing. The reaver while also devastating had a non combat purpose (can't remember atm) so the Colossus were sealed away only brought back out now out of desperation. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/colossus (seems like they edited down the entry from pre release version) It was explained in the Dark Templar Trigogy that morphing Dark Archon is actually a fobbiden art and Dark Archons are considered evil beings by the Protoss. | ||
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TheKillers
United States17 Posts
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On March 14 2011 23:17 Conversion wrote: dt -> scout -> arbiter -> DARK ARCHON -> MC A SCV -> MAKE TANKS -> RECALL TANKS YEAHHHHH in a nutshell Correction: Recall tanks in seige mode :D | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
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stalking.d00m
213 Posts
On March 12 2011 05:42 Sanguinarius wrote: I think they will make an appearance in the protoss campaign. I doubt they will be a multiplayer unit. Exactly. I think Lurkers will be back in HOTS and Reds in LOV. If everything was in game from start why would people buy expansions? So lets just enjoy what we have now. The map size and unit count is bound to increase in future. | ||
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Iksf
United Kingdom444 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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FaCE_1
Canada6172 Posts
That would be awesome | ||
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VeNoM HaZ Skill
United States1528 Posts
On March 14 2011 07:19 GoonSack wrote: MC also went dt > morph archon against MVP in the GSTL He also lost. Terribly. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And you must consider that they weren't fighting together all the time, so it was dark templars and dark archons versus mutalisks and all that stuff in masses. Warcraft 1 to warcraft 2 was really fun every unit had an explaination why its gone or where its from hehe. Also a possibility is that the knowledge is simply destroyed since shakuras was pretty much raided by the zerg. (like the wizard of the humans that got whiped out with all their knowledge lost, atleast the clerics could teach the lorderon knights there knowledge of healing and thus the paladin was born, but at the same time the ork necromancer got mostly killed but the remaining few used corpses of paladins to ressurect them as the death knights (or how they were called hehe) ) | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On March 18 2011 02:46 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote: He also lost. Terribly. I don't see how that's relevant. If he tried to do that in the GSTL, he clearly considers it a viable strategy. MC doesn't just play on a whim each game, he has practiced the build orders etc repeatedly, and knows what works and what doesn't. Sure, he mucked it up, but he's mucked up other builds plenty of times as well. Basically, if MC thinks it can work, chances are it can work. | ||
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Coldspyros
United States18 Posts
I would sure like to see that. Even though I'd hate giving more money to Kotick, if they threw out that kind of expansion i might pay for it. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
... ...Nice job there buddy. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
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brum
Hungary187 Posts
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:21 kamikami wrote: It was explained in the Dark Templar Trigogy that morphing Dark Archon is actually a fobbiden art and Dark Archons are considered evil beings by the Protoss. Like I said Colossus were sealed away for a similar reason and are being unsealed now because the Protoss are desperate. Not sure why it makes sense lore wise to reseal the Dark Archon. They can get rid of things by saying they're technologically inferior now for example the Scout and Corsair -> Pheonix which supposedly combines Auir Protoss Technology with DT Technology. Dragoons were written off by saying the facility that makes Dragoons was on Auir and got infested but the technology was copied by DTs hence the Stalker. So unless there is some side story where Dark Archon's go rogue between BW and SC2 I don't see why they would re-ban them after just unbanning their usage. Here is the Dark Archon Lore http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_archon#History Oh and found the old SC2 page seems like the Stalker might get more abilities? Swift and deadly, stalkers have been credited with many fantastic powers in recent conflicts. Nevertheless the only one that has been witnessed consistently is the ability to instantly teleport or 'blink' from one spot to another. http://us.starcraft2.com/features/protoss/stalker.xml | ||
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RLTY
United States965 Posts
On March 14 2011 23:05 da_head wrote: wait, i know what the stove is (dt, scout, arbiter), but what is the royal stove? o.O Not really, but it was done during race wars by (CrownRoyale?) . I still have the wallpaper since it looks so badass http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=88864 | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 15 2011 08:14 GreEny K wrote: You saw them on occasion to deal with the muta stack harass. Maelstrom them and then the corsairs and dragoons can work on them. Was pretty efficient as well, since that harass was meant to buy time for the follow up consisting of 5 hatch hydra most often. You would also see them time to time in PvP to feedback HT | ||
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PrljaviJoee
Croatia1 Post
On March 12 2011 05:42 Sanguinarius wrote: I think they will make an appearance in the protoss campaign. I doubt they will be a multiplayer unit. I agree with you they will appear in the protoss campaign. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On March 20 2011 11:14 BlackMagister wrote: Like I said Colossus were sealed away for a similar reason and are being unsealed now because the Protoss are desperate. Not sure why it makes sense lore wise to reseal the Dark Archon. They can get rid of things by saying they're technologically inferior now for example the Scout and Corsair -> Pheonix which supposedly combines Auir Protoss Technology with DT Technology. Dragoons were written off by saying the facility that makes Dragoons was on Auir and got infested but the technology was copied by DTs hence the Stalker. So unless there is some side story where Dark Archon's go rogue between BW and SC2 I don't see why they would re-ban them after just unbanning their usage. Here is the Dark Archon Lore http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_archon#History Oh and found the old SC2 page seems like the Stalker might get more abilities? http://us.starcraft2.com/features/protoss/stalker.xml I believe there was a superpowered dark archon in the lore between BW and SC2 (Ulrezaj) that was rogue and fought against Zeratul's forces. That could be a reason why they re-banned them. Also, dark archon's original lore was that their powers were so enormous that they would "burn out" very quickly, so the only dark archon after BW was Ulrezaj. | ||
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