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If you haven't played the campaign, get out and stop reading, spoilers ahead.
_______________Spoilers after this line ________________
Let's review Raynor's and Kerrigan's relationship, because a very important question to me is why Jim goes to the length he does to save Kerrigan. They met, through Arcturus Mengsk on Antugua while doing a job for Mengsk - getting the Confedration off of Antigua Prime so the Antiguan Protectorate could join the Sons of Korhal. At this point in their relationship Kerrigan is second in command of the Sons and Raynor is some General/Advisor, he's certainly bleow Kerrigan in the pecking order. The next time we see Kerrigan and Raynor interact is when Mengsk orders Kerrigan to implant a psi-emitter in Delta Squadron's base, and both she and him agree that no one deserves the Zerg unleased upon them. This is how the Sons of Korhal bypass Tarsonis' defences and plant psi emitters on Tarsonis itself, the Zerg rain down and the Protoss run after them, ready to exterminate Raynor and Kerrigan are sent down to beat back the Protoss while saving the Zerg. It is in this mission that Kerrian is captured and infested by the Zerg.
Here's my beef: there doesn't seem to be that big of a connection between Raynor and Kerrigan to justify the lengths he went to to save her from being the Queen of Blades. He met this chick like maybe half a dozen times at most, to him she was just another boss, Edmund Duke might have been killed, but Raynor doesn't chase after him, or mourn him, or mention his name at all anymore. She didn't seem to like him very much, she calls him a pig after knowing the guy 5 seconds because she's a telepath, it doesn't seem like they had a relationship, and if they did how could it have been meaningful in the 2 or 3 weeks they knew each other. Was it the sorrow of losing someone? Well Raynor's a career military man, he's fought in wars, been in whatever mess him and Tychus got into, the point is I'm sure the guy learned to cope with losing someone a long time ago.
So the 64,000 dollar question is why. Why go chasing across the galaxy looking for an outside chance at saving the girl he knew all of 3 weeks? It's not a stretch to say he was trying to save her, at the end of SCII he doesn't know what the artifact has done, no one can answer how it works or what it doesn't other than Mengsk's Son saying it de-infests people. Raynor knows about betrayal, he's felt it before from the Confedration, and later from the Sons of Korhal - he can't trust Mengsk's son - if he wanted to be absolutely sure to save his people, he'd put a bullet in her brain, but he doesn't he wasn't out to save the Terran rce, he was out to save a girl he knew from 5 years ago for a couple weeks.
Would you have done it, would you have risked your life and the lives of everyone under your command to maybe possibly save the life of a girl you did a Civics project with sometime in the tenth grade?
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As many other people pointed out already, the story is full of plotholes.
EDIT: I think his attachment is due to the fact that K is still alive (but infested), while the other people you mentioned are simply dead. J tried to save K in SC1 campaign as well.
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1. The things men do for love.
Raynor liked her from the start. When they first meet on Antigua, Kerrigan can't even finish her sentence because she senses his attraction."Commander Raynor, I scouted the area up ahead and...you pig!"
Eventually Kerrigan shares the same feelings. On Tarsonis when Tassadar sends the toss to try and save the Confederates: "Jim stop the knight-in-shining-armor routine. It suits you sometimes, just...not now. I don't need to be rescued."
Even when infested, Kerrigan still has feelings for him. When she first emerges from the chrysalis on Char, she lets Jimmy leave rather than kill him.
And on Korhal after her alliance drove the UED off and she betrayed Fenix's forces and the Dominion, Raynor says "I'm the man who's going to kill you some day." How does Kerrigan react? Anyone else tells her that, and she laughs, but Raynor? She was hurt. "It is done, Cerebrate. Let us return to Tarsonis to rest. For the first time since my transfiguration I am, wearied, of the slaughter." Imagine that, a Zerg tired of swarming.
2. Jimmy blames himself for Kerrigan's infestation.
After turning on Mengsk and the Sons of Korhal, Jimmy laments "now he's the law and we're the criminals" and his helping Mengsk rise to power, but he caps his lament with "I shouldn't have let her go alone." Jimmy protested Mengsk's order to send Kerrigan to face Tassadar's forces, but he didn't do anything but complain.
And what came from Jimmy's inaction? WoL - Horner: What happened to Kerrigan wasn't your fault. Jimmy: Which part? The part where she was infested, or the part where she killed billions of people?
Jimmy didn't act on his feelings for Sarah and billions died.
3. Kerrigan was still a threat to every other race in the sector.
By Brood War's end, she crushed the Protoss, Dominion and UED fleets with only a fraction of her forces - what was on the Omega platform instead of on Char itself.
And in WoL, she launched a massive invasion. Large enough to force the Dominion to abandon many of their colonies. As Jimmy said: "If the Zerg wipe everyone out, it's all been for nothing. So I'm going back to Char."
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whoops, posted in the wrong thread, I'l replace this with a decent comment after the GSL
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He didn't save her only because of his affection.
She is the only one who can stop the hybrids, remember?
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Yeah, OP listen to Capt. Moroni.
Jim rushing off to save her has been a part of his character from the beginning. He also put his army in harms way to rescue Arcturus from UED - at HER request. Jim clearly wanted the UED to take Arcturus and kill the bastard.
About the only thing that WoL did that may be questionable is perhaps exaggerate Jims feelings so that it's more than a crush, but anyone who has been in a romantic relationship can attest to logic and emotion not always going hand in hand. The people complaining about the so called "retcon" are probably virgins in real life.
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On October 26 2010 22:02 Francis wrote:
Yeah, OP listen to Capt. Moroni.
Jim rushing off to save her has been a part of his character from the beginning. He also put his army in harms way to rescue Arcturus from UED - at HER request. Jim clearly wanted the UED to take Arcturus and kill the bastard.
About the only thing that WoL did that may be questionable is perhaps exaggerate Jims feelings so that it's more than a crush, but anyone who has been in a romantic relationship can attest to logic and emotion not always going hand in hand. The people complaining about the so called "retcon" are probably virgins in real life.
That's just a completely ridiculous answer. People do stupid things for love, but they don't risk the lives of their entire crew on a ship with hundreds and hundreds of people on them. That's just a terrible excuse.
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That's nice. Well it happened didn't it. Twice. Tell me something Stratos, has it ever occured to you that the entire SC story was always meant to be kind of cheesy, unrealistic and leaning a bit towards the ridiculous side? Actually had a better excuse than just some vivid dreams this time, so surely you'd view that as an incline.
It is a bit concerning that people are so serious about this game.
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To add something that people haven't mentioned here; Zeratul (someone who he deeply respects, as do most people who know of him) told him that she was the key to the whole world's survival. That kind of implies that he needs to save her in order for her to save the world.
Now I personally think its a laundry list of issues why he does it but I think the nail in the coffin (so to speak) is that she was/is a fairly attractive woman and he is stuck on a battlecruiser with a bunch of men.
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On October 26 2010 22:45 Phrost wrote:
Now I personally think its a laundry list of issues why he does it but I think the nail in the coffin (so to speak) is that she was/is a fairly attractive woman and he is stuck on a battlecruiser with a bunch of men.
Yes, this sounds cheesy enough by Terran campaign standards.
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I'm amazed that everyone always assumes that everything that happens is always shown on screen. You really don't think they were hooking up on the Hyperion between missions and such?
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On October 26 2010 22:15 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 22:02 Francis wrote:
Yeah, OP listen to Capt. Moroni.
Jim rushing off to save her has been a part of his character from the beginning. He also put his army in harms way to rescue Arcturus from UED - at HER request. Jim clearly wanted the UED to take Arcturus and kill the bastard.
About the only thing that WoL did that may be questionable is perhaps exaggerate Jims feelings so that it's more than a crush, but anyone who has been in a romantic relationship can attest to logic and emotion not always going hand in hand. The people complaining about the so called "retcon" are probably virgins in real life. That's just a completely ridiculous answer. People do stupid things for love, but they don't risk the lives of their entire crew on a ship with hundreds and hundreds of people on them. That's just a terrible excuse.
Well Raynor IS drunk 90% of the time in WoL.
Raynor's actions don't reflect his desire to save Kerrigan until he actually decides to go to Char, which means he'll defeat the Queen of Blades and save the sector from the overwheling Zerg swarm.
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On October 26 2010 22:15 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 22:02 Francis wrote:
Yeah, OP listen to Capt. Moroni.
Jim rushing off to save her has been a part of his character from the beginning. He also put his army in harms way to rescue Arcturus from UED - at HER request. Jim clearly wanted the UED to take Arcturus and kill the bastard.
About the only thing that WoL did that may be questionable is perhaps exaggerate Jims feelings so that it's more than a crush, but anyone who has been in a romantic relationship can attest to logic and emotion not always going hand in hand. The people complaining about the so called "retcon" are probably virgins in real life. That's just a completely ridiculous answer. People do stupid things for love, but they don't risk the lives of their entire crew on a ship with hundreds and hundreds of people on them. That's just a terrible excuse.
Why is it ridiculous? Im sure far worse things than what you've mentioned have been done in the name of 'love' in Earths real history, much less this games.
Anyway, Im at work so I can view the cinematic, but when Horner catches Tychus hacking the ships files to look for info on Kerrigan then talk briefly about Raynor's actions regarding her and I believe he mentions something about them having a history together. Upon which Tychus explaims, "You mean they were shacked up together?". Indicating a significant romantic relationship had taken place.
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sc2 hints that they had a much deeper relationship then what we knew from sc1. simple as that imo
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On October 26 2010 22:15 Stratos_speAr wrote:
That's just a completely ridiculous answer. People do stupid things for love, but they don't risk the lives of their entire crew on a ship with hundreds and hundreds of people on them. That's just a terrible excuse.
You realize that this is the plot of the Iliad, right? One of the oldest (if not the oldest) stories in western civilization? Menelaus coming to Troy to get his wife back causes a war which results in countless lives lost? In fact, it's also the literal plot of the Odyssey, in which Odysseus risks and loses his entire ship and crew trying to get home to his wife and son.
While fighting over women hasn't really manifested itself in history since the modern era, there is no limit to the amount of dumb things people in power will do to satisfy their own selfish wishes. It's just really convenient that Jim Raynor's specific "dumb thing" isn't that dumb in the grand scheme of things -- but that doesn't change the fact that most of his motivation for doing what he does in WoL is pretty selfish.
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They had telepathic sex all day and night long, wouldn't you be in love with a woman that can do that.
You are thousand miles apart and yet you can still have sex with telepathically. They didn't have to interact directly, they got to know each other telepathically and fall in love.
BONUS: Sometimes people do crazy stuff for love.
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On October 26 2010 23:25 psychopat wrote:
I'm amazed that everyone always assumes that everything that happens is always shown on screen. You really don't think they were hooking up on the Hyperion between missions and such?
That's horrible storytelling. If it's important to the plot, you show it or allude to it. It's as simple as that.
Blizzard retconned the entire romance into existence. Nothing more, nothing less.
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On October 27 2010 09:55 0mar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 23:25 psychopat wrote:
I'm amazed that everyone always assumes that everything that happens is always shown on screen. You really don't think they were hooking up on the Hyperion between missions and such? That's horrible storytelling. If it's important to the plot, you show it or allude to it. It's as simple as that. Blizzard retconned the entire romance into existence. Nothing more, nothing less.
It wasn't very important to the plot in SC/BW, so it was only mildly alluded to there. It was important to the plot in SC2 and it was directly referred to several times. I don't see the problem. When Horner told Tychus, my reaction was nothing like "Where the heck did that come from?!", it was more along the lines of a "Yeah, that's what I thought..." They're just confirming for those that played the original and flat out stating it for the people that didn't. I don't see the problem.
To use a bad example because of how 4-5-6 were released out of order, it's kind of like how in the first of the 6 Star Wars movies, they allude to Sidious being Palpatine, who will eventually be the Emperor. By the third, they've laid it out as bluntly as possible. Pretty much the exact same thing.
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On October 27 2010 20:54 psychopat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 09:55 0mar wrote:On October 26 2010 23:25 psychopat wrote:
I'm amazed that everyone always assumes that everything that happens is always shown on screen. You really don't think they were hooking up on the Hyperion between missions and such? That's horrible storytelling. If it's important to the plot, you show it or allude to it. It's as simple as that. Blizzard retconned the entire romance into existence. Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't very important to the plot in SC/BW, so it was only mildly alluded to there. It was important to the plot in SC2 and it was directly referred to several times. I don't see the problem. When Horner told Tychus, my reaction was nothing like "Where the heck did that come from?!", it was more along the lines of a "Yeah, that's what I thought..." They're just confirming for those that played the original and flat out stating it for the people that didn't. I don't see the problem. To use a bad example because of how 4-5-6 were released out of order, it's kind of like how in the first of the 6 Star Wars movies, they allude to Sidious being Palpatine, who will eventually be the Emperor. By the third, they've laid it out as bluntly as possible. Pretty much the exact same thing.
My reaction was exactly that, "Where the heck did that come from?". If this was always meant to be like in Star Wars, then why didn't we see Raynor going crazy sad once he saw what Kerrigan became, or didn't even think twice when facing her. So basically he didn't care much during a whole war, and now he suddenly does?
It's not hard to see that Blizz made this up. Raynor's design and personality were changed, so he would be a cooler hero for teenagers to relate to. We didn't see any of that in SC1. Now he talks dirty, has a cool hair, always comes off on top in any situation and is also a woman magnet all of a sudden. And of course, every cool hero needs a love interest, so they picked Kerrigan.
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On October 31 2010 06:16 Fumi wrote:
It's not hard to see that Blizz made this up. Raynor's design and personality were changed, so he would be a cooler hero for teenagers to relate to. We didn't see any of that in SC1. Now he talks dirty, has a cool hair, always comes off on top in any situation and is also a woman magnet all of a sudden. And of course, every cool hero needs a love interest, so they picked Kerrigan.
Exactly this. I'm thinking Blizzard thought people might perceive StarCraft as being old and boring, so they needed a new, darker, "cooler" hero to attract the newbies. And what's the most cliched theme in history? Love beyond hardship! Let's throw that in there.
SC1 never even hinted at romance. Raynor was a man serving Mengsk, and the "You pig!" comment was just a humorous aside. Fantasizing about screwing a girl you've seen for ten seconds doesn't translate into the kind of love Blizzard's been trying to shove down our throats unless you're about thirteen years old. After losing her to the Swarm, obviously it became much more personal, because even if it was for a little while she was an ally and a friend. Raynor didn't ditch Mengsk because he left Kerrigan to die- he ditched Mengsk because leaving Kerrigan to die showed his true nature.
And suppose he did have the emotional capacity of a grapefruit and somehow this translates to him loving her. Brood War took care of that.
After Kerrigan kills Fenix: "It may not be tomorrow, darlin'. It may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured: I'm the man who's going to kill you some day. I'll be seein' you."
When Arcturus is trying to convince Raynor to ally with Kerrigan (something he'd want to do if he was really in love with her): "Shutup, Arcturus. If I wanted your damn opinion I would have beaten it out of ya."
I miss the old Raynor. Unibrow and all.
![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080730022851/starcraft/images/1/1f/JimRaynor_SC1_HeadAnim1.gif)
This is Jimmy.
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1. where does it say they only met for 3 weeks?
2. you can tell a strong connection right off the bat
3. you completely neglected the briefing parts before missions where they would interact
4. they were fighting for the same thing which made them attracted towards each other even more
5. Jim blames himself for what happens so he's the one that wants to fix it
6. because he blames himself killing kerrigan would be to him like he abandoned her and left her to the zerg and than even when presented with a way to transform her back he killed her instead, he would feel like everything was his fault
7. their i love................
I do see the other side of the argument though, it is a very shady subject
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lol, op, if you didnt see he was in love in the original story then you are beyond help.
in fact i do think exactly the opposite - to me it was obvious jim should go all the way in trying to save kerrigan, what he actually did in wol was disappointingly little and late.
but i've posted way too many times about that already to repeat again here. read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159166¤tpage=5#97 if you feel like it
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On October 31 2010 09:34 Slago wrote:
5. Jim blames himself for what happens so he's the one that wants to fix it
6. because he blames himself killing kerrigan would be to him like he abandoned her and left her to the zerg and than even when presented with a way to transform her back he killed her instead, he would feel like everything was his fault
That right there is the justification for any kindness Raynor ever shows Kerrigan after she becomes the QoB.
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Sweden5554 Posts
Didn't Raynor get to see dreams from Kerrigan in SC1 when she was inside the cocoon being turned into a zerg? Which would mean Kerrigan (with the psionic powers) has an emotional attachment to little Jimmy as well?
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Kerrigan's got dat azz. Its that simple.
![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/13zwxe.png)
And another note, Kerrigan also showed mercy on Jim in the BW campaign when she could have destroyed/infested him like she did to everyone else she met.
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On October 31 2010 18:12 salle wrote:
Didn't Raynor get to see dreams from Kerrigan in SC1 when she was inside the cocoon being turned into a zerg? Which would mean Kerrigan (with the psionic powers) has an emotional attachment to little Jimmy as well?
In Power Rangers Lost Galaxy, the yellow ranger constantly sees visions sent by the (dead) pink ranger in her dreams, doesn't mean they're lesbians. If anything, that means the real Kerrigan was still there somewhere all along, asking for help, and Raynor being the only person she could reach out to who was willing to do the right thing (and that she could also trust since they've worked together).
Edit: Yeah, lol, awesome comparison, I know.
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I only read a few posts in here. At least once I saw the correct answer: Kerrigan is the only creature to save the entire universe and stop the hybrids.
I'm not sure, but I guess he also did it to save her because he still loves her.
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Syria7637 Posts
SC2's got the relationship mixed up is what happened. Kerrigan's the one who can't get over Jim, not the other way around. In SC1, Kerrigan had exactly two friends. The first was Arcturus Mengsk, who betrayed her to the Zerg. The second was Jim Raynor, who tried to save her twice: the first time from Arcturus, the second time from the Overmind. Everyone else she knew was either a distinct subordinate, a cerebrate, or the Overmind. It's hardly a surprise she became attached to Raynor. How do I back up the thesis that she became attached to him? First, on Char: she doesn't kill Jim. Second, on Korhal: she becomes defensive when he talks about her mad lust for power (paraphrased), unlike when she talks to literally anyone else, and once again fails to kill him despite the immense threat he poses (as opposed to Mengsk, who she leaves alive because he is powerless without Duke and because she wants him to suffer). Raynor, on the other hand, falls out of love with Kerrigan and into hate. After his failed attempt to rescue Kerrigan, he joins up with Tassadar (probably to escape the Zerg) and stays with the Protoss. Never again in SC1 does he seek out Kerrigan. Kerrigan's the one who seeks him out, asking for his and Fenix's help in defeating the UED (admittedly, they were the only people available, with Zeratul and Artanis still smarting from the death of Aldaris, most of Mengsk's forces wiped out, and almost the entire Swarm under the control of the UED). During the remainder of the exchanges between Jim and Kerrigan, he's always aggressive and hostile while she's ill at ease. This is hardly a good set-up for the Jim-saving-Kerrigan outcome of WoL. If anything, it should end with the infestation of Jim, and HotS could have then grown into Jim's integration into the Swarm and later his revenge against Kerrigan.
But whatever. I just try to pretend that for the sake of the lore BW was the end of SC's story.
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Kerrigan is the only creature to save the entire universe and stop the hybrids.
but the overmind planned it so she saves the universe as the queen of blades. raynor has to suspect that actually deinfesting her will ruin the overmind's plan just as much as killing her. or at least make it much much harder. already, we have to wonder how could she be commanding the swarm in the expansion if she was truly deinfested...
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On October 31 2010 18:35 Fumi wrote:
In Power Rangers Lost Galaxy, the yellow ranger constantly sees visions sent by the (dead) pink ranger in her dreams, doesn't mean they're lesbians.
you just HAD to ruined it, didn't you 
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On November 01 2010 03:26 SmoKim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 18:35 Fumi wrote:
In Power Rangers Lost Galaxy, the yellow ranger constantly sees visions sent by the (dead) pink ranger in her dreams, doesn't mean they're lesbians. you just HAD to ruined it, didn't you
Hey hey, it's not like I didn't want that, though!
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I thought it was obvious in sc1 that they had a thing for each other....plus didn't they expand on that in the books? Which came out BEFORE sc2 btw, but im not sure since I did not read the books.
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If any of you recall, in that Zerg Mission where the Chrysalis hatches, Kerrigan and Raynor had a conversation.
Not exactly it but along the lines of
J: I thought you were alive, I heard you in my dreams blablabl
S: She instinctively called out to you and Mengsk blablabl, but now Im going to let u leave
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I agree with you, OP, although this subject's been talked to death.
Sigh...I like how everyone assumes that because they had like a couple lines of flirtation in SC1 that they were romantically involved with each other. It's like this girl you flirted with once back in the 10th grade turned out to be a real bitch and ended up killing all of your close friends...but you guys flirted once back then, remember? That must mean you guys love each other! (not the greatest example, but you get the point  )
All I'm asking for is, if you're going to pull the "boy loves girl" card, at least build up to it. Show us some more background. Throw in some more dialogue. DO SOMETHING. This is the crux of the WoL storyline and needs to be fleshed out. Anything less is just plain bad storytelling.
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the power of pussy can make you forgive a person that has killed millions of people
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maybe raynor lost his virginity to kerrigan
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I don't think it's really hard to understand why Jim would feel the way he did and choose redemption over revenge. Technically Jim was one of the main reasons why Kerrigan ended up killing Fenix, along with however many millions of civilians that got swarmed. He also thought that he could have done more to help her on Tarsonis. Not sure that I'd feel the the same way, but strong feelings of guilt and depression have a way of clouding judgement. Tychus even said as much when talking to Horner "And Jimmy feels responsible", which basically means that Jim felt that his own hands were as bloody as Kerrigans. It's really ambiguous as far as I see it.
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On October 26 2010 19:47 Sufficiency wrote:
As many other people pointed out already, the story is full of plotholes.
EDIT: I think his attachment is due to the fact that K is still alive (but infested), while the other people you mentioned are simply dead. J tried to save K in SC1 campaign as well.
Only plotholes which I found in the story were all on Tychus, but to be fair Blizzard stories often have big plot holes so maybe people set their expectations higher than Blizzard actually deserve.
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I'm just glad blizzard spent all these years perfecting the multiplayer and battlenet experience isntead of developing a good storyline
oh wait
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On October 26 2010 18:01 annYeong(o11) wrote:So the 64,000 dollar question is why. Why go chasing across the galaxy looking for an outside chance at saving the girl he knew all of 3 weeks? Sometimes you know a girl for just 3 hours and still would travel the galaxy to get to her again.
Raynor needs to look at her for 3 seconds to get piggish imaginations. In most stories there are not the girls in which you fell in love, there is the girl the hero gets a crush on.
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On November 02 2010 17:18 FinestHour wrote:
I'm just glad blizzard spent all these years perfecting the multiplayer and battlenet experience isntead of developing a good storyline
oh wait
Hahaha! This. XD
But really, constantly balancing multiplayer is what blizzard does best. You don't really play SC2 for the storyline, there's much better games for that. Single player is a nice bonus which ended up taking way too long imo.
Also, don't mind the Raynor-Kerrigan ret-con, as long as, you know, things fit in okay. As long as they don't outright contradict each other, which is not what's going on here.
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Blizzard could have introduced new characters or gone in a different direction for the plot (you know, where SC was going initially). But it seems they just took a bunch of characters from the books and retconned everything until it made a story.
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Where was SC going initially? It was all about the Zerg wanting to finish what the Xel'Naga began, and WoL was more relevent to that plot than BW so I don't know why you're complaining about derailment.
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The Relationship retcon really started with the novelization of events that occurred on Char during the Zerg campaign of Starcraft I. He reminisces about his interactions with Kerrigan prior to the betrayal on Tarsonis. It seems that during this time he begins to realize just how much she came to mean to him and really comes to a head as she starts toying with him telepathically while she is on the hunt for Raynor's remaining troops + their new Protoss Allies (Tassadar's and Zeratul's groups both were in their company). Both the protoss leaders also understood Raynor's feelings for Kerrigans, perhaps even more so than he did since even though he was adamant about joining them in the fight against her, they still opted to engage her in close combat without him. Earlier in the book, Raynor spoke to Zeratul and Tassadar about dreams that Kerrigan was forcing upon him through a telepathic link of. They started as pleasant dreams of what could have been... and later these dreams would transition into very unpleasant ones. Raynor was always certain that it was for the purpose of torturing him. But Tassadar and Zeratul both agreed that at the same time she was also torturing herself since the sort of relationship between the two she was projecting into Raynors mind was also something she could no longer have a chance at either.
Now that establishes somewhat the romantic relationship between the two, it still only came to playful flirting between the two until the infestation occurred. The dreams she projected into Raynor's mind probably helped to further both their feelings... that even though it was Infested Kerrigan's sadistic to torture those who would be her victims, it may have had an effect on the little bit of her humanity that had remained intact by the Overmind, while the dreams effect on Raynor gave him a better understanding of exactly what it was he truly lost that day on Tarsonis, that visions of what Kerrigan could have been to him gave him a new lens through which to look on what she had already meant to him.
Now in Starcraft II, the reasoning for going so far to save her is really in connection to the prophecy missions, while taking the fight to Kerrigan directly is more in line with trying to save the sector from Kerrigan's wrath. He was forced to stop her from destroying the sector and avoid killing her knowing what the future held if they did. Remember, when Zeratul first told them that Kerrigan must live, Raynor was infuriated hearing it coming from perhaps the only person in the sector who had as much if not more reason to want to see the Queen of Blades dead than Raynor himself. Raynor is the kind of guy who always feels responsible for things he may have had some hand in. 4 particular things continue to haunt him. The death of his son in the ghost program and the subsequent suicide of his wife, Mengsk's rise to power and Kerrigan's infestation.
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I dunno, I didn't get the "love-interest" romance thing so much from SC2. I know people jabbed Raynor about it a few times, but I took it as friends poking fun at each other's sore spots every now and then.
I was always under the impression that Jimmy just felt guilty; he thought he was too weak to save her from being infested or that he played a role by helping Mengsk along so that she ended up getting infested. And thus, he feels guilty for all of her murders and tyranny.
If you helped someone into power, even inadvertently, and then they went crazy and killed everyone, wouldn't you you kind of feel the weight of the deaths on your own hands? And wouldn't you do whatever you could to "fix" their crazyness and keep them from killing more people?
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why does he look for a girl he meet just for 3 weeks?
because of two things:
He is in love .(yeah kinda quick but they liked since their first mission together)
He feels guilty for what happend to kerrigan
Zeratul told him to do save her.
FOR ZERATUUUL!
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On November 02 2010 17:18 FinestHour wrote:
I'm just glad blizzard spent all these years perfecting the multiplayer and battlenet experience isntead of developing a good storyline
oh wait
ahah, you said it best brother
but yea, we waited 9 years on a cliffhanger
+ Show Spoiler +and it hasnt been mentioned at all + Show Spoiler +and they gave us another cliffhanger this is bullshit
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the vast majority of games have plot holes. SC2 has huge ones, i definitely agree that it makes no sense to risk your own life and the lives of many many many others for a girl he didn't know that long. not to mention the dude never had a relationship with her to begin with, not even as friends...
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On October 26 2010 23:25 psychopat wrote:
I'm amazed that everyone always assumes that everything that happens is always shown on screen. You really don't think they were hooking up on the Hyperion between missions and such? Jim Raynor has a bladder of steel, he hasn't been going to the bathroom in like 5 years. Talk about job devotion.
The obvious reason is that the plot has plotholes, all media has, the point about a lack of plot holes is that it becomes realistic, if you want realism, look out of your window, sick graphics too.
The real reason is that it has its charms, and I kind of like this, the 'tragic villain', she's not truly evil, evil was forced upon her, and the constant hinting that there is something human left in her. I like it.
Together with the tragic hero, a drunk bittered man who doesn't even know himself anymore if he's out for justice and freedom, or simply revenge.
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i think you guys are forgetting something
blizzard didn't have the resources to tell the story they desired to back then
there is only so much you can fit on a CD
not to mention you only play the action sequences in the game (sc1)
never do you experience the day to day running of the battle fleet
where you spent a few months in space doing nothing while preparing/traveling to the next battle site
there is plenty of time for Jim and kerrigan to develop an off scene romance
just because nobody ever said "i love you" out loud or you didn't see the sex scene doesn't mean it didn't happen
in sc2 story bliz have just come out and said, yeah things did happen with them behind the scenes
you don't need to know all the details because its private to them, you just need to know they had feelings for each other
im sure they got it on a few times after all Raynor was plenty pissed when Kerrigan was abandoned
he vowed to destroy her believing her lost but was confused by her actions (letting him live more than once) but then Zeratul shows up telling him he has to save her right after he finnaly decides killing her is the right thing to do, then he is back to his orignal torment, how do you justify saving a mega-mass murderer
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On November 03 2010 07:56 Mobius wrote:ahah, you said it best brother but yea, we waited 9 years on a cliffhanger + Show Spoiler +and it hasnt been mentioned at all + Show Spoiler +and they gave us another cliffhanger this is bullshit
http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=define cliffhanger
hi, the end of WoL is not a cliffhanger
On November 02 2010 17:18 FinestHour wrote:
I'm just glad blizzard spent all these years perfecting the multiplayer and battlenet experience isntead of developing a good storyline
oh wait
re-purposing those programmers and such into story writer is an excellent idea, because those guys are totally qualified for it
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On November 03 2010 11:40 megagoten wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 17:18 FinestHour wrote:
I'm just glad blizzard spent all these years perfecting the multiplayer and battlenet experience isntead of developing a good storyline
oh wait re-purposing those programmers and such into story writer is an excellent idea, because those guys are totally qualified for it That's a little too easily thought. Talent is for sale, it's more an issue of money. They only have X amounts of money to spend on it. And they can choose to use that money on story-writers or programmers.
In the end, faults in StarCraft II's multiplayer and Battle.net are not really the issue of programmers as much as just 'ideas'. If you give programmers an idea to execute they will do it.
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On November 03 2010 11:40 megagoten wrote:http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=define cliffhangerhi, the end of WoL is not a cliffhanger Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 17:18 FinestHour wrote:
I'm just glad blizzard spent all these years perfecting the multiplayer and battlenet experience isntead of developing a good storyline
oh wait re-purposing those programmers and such into story writer is an excellent idea, because those guys are totally qualified for it
The writer for Wings wrote for Bioware and some other game.
Chris invented Starcraft and is still directing the series.
I think that means they have some qualifications.
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Well, the romance was there in SC1, she was stopping him from coming to his rescue and we were led to think that there was something between the two behind the scenes. Kerrigan did refer to things that never happened on the battlefield.
Ok, what is the contradiction to the whole saviour Raynor is the fact that he literally promised, that he will be the person that kills her one day. Buut...
She was hot. And not just your avarage-highschool-girlfriend hot, but like HOT. He saw her and thought things that made her slap him. I mean what did he think, that he made a trained ghost (trained to control her mind to a degree you can't imagine) angry.
And I think that is the bottom line of all of this. She was hot and he had this hero in him. I mean, he started a rebellion for chissakes. Would any of you start a rebbelion on your own, make people follow you. Noo, I don't think so. This guy has a strong hunger for being viwed as the hero, for doing all the right things. He sees oppressed terrans and goes into rebellion, ecause he's just not the guy who would sit back.
The worse part is, that people trust him, but noone has the same courage, except meybe his second in command, whatshisname. Other people just don't have it, they just folow orders, thaey don't have the guts or the imagination of Jim Raynor. And Jim - well, he once knew someone with just the imagination, and it was Sarah. She saw the world exactly as he sees it and also wasn't going to sit back. They got along and that was like uber-fantastic, because people like raynor rarely
find another person like themselves. So yeah, he was really happy for these three weeks - he met a really hot girl who bielieved in the same stupid things he does. How much better can it get.
He wants to do something about infested kerrigan, because it's just aint right for her story to end like this. The guy's a mess, filled with anger, and the only solution his triggerhappy mind can think of is to take revenge on the obviously guilty Mengsk. Which he does.
He also wants to do something about Kerrigan's situation. Now, she's been the evil bitch of the universe, he needs to put an end to that, but living the memories of the woman that understood him so well (and was so incredibly hot) he just hesitates. And that makes him angry too, because he's not really used to hesitating.
So when Arthas Menghsk pops in with the plan to actually save Kerrigan, well - doesn;t it all click in? The hotheaded raynor with the hunger to set all the things right sees the perfect chance. He can oppose Mengsk, end the rule of the Queen of Blades and maybe get his happiness back, return to the point where it's all jolly.
Only, as far as I know, panta rei - nothing will be like in the old days.
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On October 31 2010 18:34 xarthaz wrote:Kerrigan's got dat azz. Its that simple.
This.
Also, our protoss pal Zeratul kinda told us she can't die, or you know, everyone dies. That's what the whole Prophecy mission set was for.
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Raynor saved Kerrigan because he's a sap that believes in rescuing the princess. That's why he's the + Show Spoiler +
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blizzard isn't porn compny play the play the game not the story
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Raynor liked Kerrigan in BW .. it was obvious, she was a hottie fighting for the same cause and probably Raynor would have made a move after peace and stability was restored in the galaxy .. but instead stuff happened where the chick got double-crossed by the dude Raynor was helping out .. and worse the chick, instead of dying, turns into this infestated persona that kills all the people Raynor was trying to free from the Confederacy. So the dude's got some mixed emotions where the innocent chick Kerrigan is practically dead in his mind and it's his fault that she turned into the Queen of Blades and is gonna kill people/killed ppl. He's waiting for the time he himself will have to kill the QoB and put an end to the memory of Kerrigan whom a relationship was developing ( implied but impossible to blatantly put into the story mode of BW). His emotions got messed up and he was probably trying to convince himself that the chick that could have been his future partner or whatever ... is dead and that he must put down the QoB. But suddenly Zeratul comes up and shows him this prophecy where hope pops up where he can get that hot chick back and that he can amend his guilt for leaving her to become what she became and there's no need to kill her anymore.
Note : this isn't a blockbuster movie .. it's a damn strategy game. Be thankful that there's so much of a story in it. Don't go Rotten Tomatoes on a RTS game. Yeah maybe when all strategy RTS games evolve into competing storylines .. we should. But we aren't there yet. That being said, I think the story is damn fine as it is. Hope Heart of the Swarm doesn't disappoint.
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Blizzard did a much better job of setting up and creating the Raynor-Kerrigan relationship in SC1/BW than SC2.
I really think it is due to Blizzard's focus on making the single player entirely 1 race based. the pacing in SC2 is too slow and cluttered with filler missions. in SC1/BW, the story had to move along due to the limited number of missions for each race, but Blizzard wasn't able to do the same with SC2 and instead tried to compensate with a reward system to hire mercs, buy upgrades, and choose zerg/protoss tech paths. I would have much preferred a tighter storyline.
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raynor is a drunk 'n horny old man. nuff said.
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On December 08 2010 02:47 B.I.G. wrote:
raynor is a drunk 'n horny old man. nuff said.
Oh so true.
Whats that thing they sing in that song? All you need is love?
Raynor is clearly knee deep in the foul yet glittering and inviting swamp that is love. He seems to ignore all other causes just to get to with thbe e girl, its all kinda cheesey, but what you gonna do?
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On October 31 2010 06:45 .Aar wrote:I miss the old Raynor. Unibrow and all. This is Jimmy.
i miss the original infested kerrigan more
anyone got a gif of that?
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my opinion is the following: forget about Kerrigan and fuck that Nova !
way better than Kerrigan, the human version.
but then again, I am not a Blizzard writer.
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1. The comparison with General Duke is just dumb, he's a douchebag and Kerrigan is a super hot babe.
2. The entire protoss element to the campaign is designed to tell you one thing, Kerrigan is the only way to stop the terrible future of the last level.
3. There is more character development between Raynor and Kerrigan than what is said on the level dialogue... I assume, books? Not gonna read them but maybe someone has.
Ps. This is not the Illiad, don't make broad assumptions from limited connections.
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On December 08 2010 03:59 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 06:45 .Aar wrote:I miss the old Raynor. Unibrow and all. This is Jimmy. i miss the original infested kerrigan more anyone got a gif of that?
You mean the one where she had eyes instead of glowing yellow-orange pools?
![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090424220426/starcraft/images/a/ad/InfestedKerrigan_SC1_Head1.png)
All I got.
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What would've been pro for Blizzard to do was make some backstory missions of SC1. To get you to learn how to play SC so you understand or shovel in some dirt onto those plotholes we've been eyeing down or in a flashback-esque with pictures of Kerrigan, SC Raynor, Video Reports, Flags / Memorabilia of The Sons of Korhal with minor/major dialogue explaining SC1 over the period of SC2 for the long time players that where baffled at Raynors sudden case of Vaginitius. Or added some concrete dialogue that makes sense.
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On October 27 2010 02:17 ahcho00 wrote:
nova is hot too...
Nova is literally a blonde Kerrigan.
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The main save is the Zeratul missions. Him knowing the future of humanity if Kerrigan is not to be saved spurs him on and motivates him. I believe he was collecting artifact fragments mostly for rebel funds before he even knew what the artifact did and post Zeratul missions.
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EPT
