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On October 27 2010 20:54 psychopat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 09:55 0mar wrote:On October 26 2010 23:25 psychopat wrote:
I'm amazed that everyone always assumes that everything that happens is always shown on screen. You really don't think they were hooking up on the Hyperion between missions and such? That's horrible storytelling. If it's important to the plot, you show it or allude to it. It's as simple as that. Blizzard retconned the entire romance into existence. Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't very important to the plot in SC/BW, so it was only mildly alluded to there. It was important to the plot in SC2 and it was directly referred to several times. I don't see the problem. When Horner told Tychus, my reaction was nothing like "Where the heck did that come from?!", it was more along the lines of a "Yeah, that's what I thought..." They're just confirming for those that played the original and flat out stating it for the people that didn't. I don't see the problem. To use a bad example because of how 4-5-6 were released out of order, it's kind of like how in the first of the 6 Star Wars movies, they allude to Sidious being Palpatine, who will eventually be the Emperor. By the third, they've laid it out as bluntly as possible. Pretty much the exact same thing.
My reaction was exactly that, "Where the heck did that come from?". If this was always meant to be like in Star Wars, then why didn't we see Raynor going crazy sad once he saw what Kerrigan became, or didn't even think twice when facing her. So basically he didn't care much during a whole war, and now he suddenly does?
It's not hard to see that Blizz made this up. Raynor's design and personality were changed, so he would be a cooler hero for teenagers to relate to. We didn't see any of that in SC1. Now he talks dirty, has a cool hair, always comes off on top in any situation and is also a woman magnet all of a sudden. And of course, every cool hero needs a love interest, so they picked Kerrigan.
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On October 31 2010 06:16 Fumi wrote:
It's not hard to see that Blizz made this up. Raynor's design and personality were changed, so he would be a cooler hero for teenagers to relate to. We didn't see any of that in SC1. Now he talks dirty, has a cool hair, always comes off on top in any situation and is also a woman magnet all of a sudden. And of course, every cool hero needs a love interest, so they picked Kerrigan.
Exactly this. I'm thinking Blizzard thought people might perceive StarCraft as being old and boring, so they needed a new, darker, "cooler" hero to attract the newbies. And what's the most cliched theme in history? Love beyond hardship! Let's throw that in there.
SC1 never even hinted at romance. Raynor was a man serving Mengsk, and the "You pig!" comment was just a humorous aside. Fantasizing about screwing a girl you've seen for ten seconds doesn't translate into the kind of love Blizzard's been trying to shove down our throats unless you're about thirteen years old. After losing her to the Swarm, obviously it became much more personal, because even if it was for a little while she was an ally and a friend. Raynor didn't ditch Mengsk because he left Kerrigan to die- he ditched Mengsk because leaving Kerrigan to die showed his true nature.
And suppose he did have the emotional capacity of a grapefruit and somehow this translates to him loving her. Brood War took care of that.
After Kerrigan kills Fenix: "It may not be tomorrow, darlin'. It may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured: I'm the man who's going to kill you some day. I'll be seein' you."
When Arcturus is trying to convince Raynor to ally with Kerrigan (something he'd want to do if he was really in love with her): "Shutup, Arcturus. If I wanted your damn opinion I would have beaten it out of ya."
I miss the old Raynor. Unibrow and all.
![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080730022851/starcraft/images/1/1f/JimRaynor_SC1_HeadAnim1.gif)
This is Jimmy.
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1. where does it say they only met for 3 weeks?
2. you can tell a strong connection right off the bat
3. you completely neglected the briefing parts before missions where they would interact
4. they were fighting for the same thing which made them attracted towards each other even more
5. Jim blames himself for what happens so he's the one that wants to fix it
6. because he blames himself killing kerrigan would be to him like he abandoned her and left her to the zerg and than even when presented with a way to transform her back he killed her instead, he would feel like everything was his fault
7. their i love................
I do see the other side of the argument though, it is a very shady subject
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lol, op, if you didnt see he was in love in the original story then you are beyond help.
in fact i do think exactly the opposite - to me it was obvious jim should go all the way in trying to save kerrigan, what he actually did in wol was disappointingly little and late.
but i've posted way too many times about that already to repeat again here. read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159166¤tpage=5#97 if you feel like it
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On October 31 2010 09:34 Slago wrote:
5. Jim blames himself for what happens so he's the one that wants to fix it
6. because he blames himself killing kerrigan would be to him like he abandoned her and left her to the zerg and than even when presented with a way to transform her back he killed her instead, he would feel like everything was his fault
That right there is the justification for any kindness Raynor ever shows Kerrigan after she becomes the QoB.
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Sweden5554 Posts
Didn't Raynor get to see dreams from Kerrigan in SC1 when she was inside the cocoon being turned into a zerg? Which would mean Kerrigan (with the psionic powers) has an emotional attachment to little Jimmy as well?
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Kerrigan's got dat azz. Its that simple.
![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/13zwxe.png)
And another note, Kerrigan also showed mercy on Jim in the BW campaign when she could have destroyed/infested him like she did to everyone else she met.
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On October 31 2010 18:12 salle wrote:
Didn't Raynor get to see dreams from Kerrigan in SC1 when she was inside the cocoon being turned into a zerg? Which would mean Kerrigan (with the psionic powers) has an emotional attachment to little Jimmy as well?
In Power Rangers Lost Galaxy, the yellow ranger constantly sees visions sent by the (dead) pink ranger in her dreams, doesn't mean they're lesbians. If anything, that means the real Kerrigan was still there somewhere all along, asking for help, and Raynor being the only person she could reach out to who was willing to do the right thing (and that she could also trust since they've worked together).
Edit: Yeah, lol, awesome comparison, I know.
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I only read a few posts in here. At least once I saw the correct answer: Kerrigan is the only creature to save the entire universe and stop the hybrids.
I'm not sure, but I guess he also did it to save her because he still loves her.
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Syria7637 Posts
SC2's got the relationship mixed up is what happened. Kerrigan's the one who can't get over Jim, not the other way around. In SC1, Kerrigan had exactly two friends. The first was Arcturus Mengsk, who betrayed her to the Zerg. The second was Jim Raynor, who tried to save her twice: the first time from Arcturus, the second time from the Overmind. Everyone else she knew was either a distinct subordinate, a cerebrate, or the Overmind. It's hardly a surprise she became attached to Raynor. How do I back up the thesis that she became attached to him? First, on Char: she doesn't kill Jim. Second, on Korhal: she becomes defensive when he talks about her mad lust for power (paraphrased), unlike when she talks to literally anyone else, and once again fails to kill him despite the immense threat he poses (as opposed to Mengsk, who she leaves alive because he is powerless without Duke and because she wants him to suffer). Raynor, on the other hand, falls out of love with Kerrigan and into hate. After his failed attempt to rescue Kerrigan, he joins up with Tassadar (probably to escape the Zerg) and stays with the Protoss. Never again in SC1 does he seek out Kerrigan. Kerrigan's the one who seeks him out, asking for his and Fenix's help in defeating the UED (admittedly, they were the only people available, with Zeratul and Artanis still smarting from the death of Aldaris, most of Mengsk's forces wiped out, and almost the entire Swarm under the control of the UED). During the remainder of the exchanges between Jim and Kerrigan, he's always aggressive and hostile while she's ill at ease. This is hardly a good set-up for the Jim-saving-Kerrigan outcome of WoL. If anything, it should end with the infestation of Jim, and HotS could have then grown into Jim's integration into the Swarm and later his revenge against Kerrigan.
But whatever. I just try to pretend that for the sake of the lore BW was the end of SC's story.
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Kerrigan is the only creature to save the entire universe and stop the hybrids.
but the overmind planned it so she saves the universe as the queen of blades. raynor has to suspect that actually deinfesting her will ruin the overmind's plan just as much as killing her. or at least make it much much harder. already, we have to wonder how could she be commanding the swarm in the expansion if she was truly deinfested...
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On October 31 2010 18:35 Fumi wrote:
In Power Rangers Lost Galaxy, the yellow ranger constantly sees visions sent by the (dead) pink ranger in her dreams, doesn't mean they're lesbians.
you just HAD to ruined it, didn't you 
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On November 01 2010 03:26 SmoKim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 18:35 Fumi wrote:
In Power Rangers Lost Galaxy, the yellow ranger constantly sees visions sent by the (dead) pink ranger in her dreams, doesn't mean they're lesbians. you just HAD to ruined it, didn't you
Hey hey, it's not like I didn't want that, though!
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I thought it was obvious in sc1 that they had a thing for each other....plus didn't they expand on that in the books? Which came out BEFORE sc2 btw, but im not sure since I did not read the books.
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If any of you recall, in that Zerg Mission where the Chrysalis hatches, Kerrigan and Raynor had a conversation.
Not exactly it but along the lines of
J: I thought you were alive, I heard you in my dreams blablabl
S: She instinctively called out to you and Mengsk blablabl, but now Im going to let u leave
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I agree with you, OP, although this subject's been talked to death.
Sigh...I like how everyone assumes that because they had like a couple lines of flirtation in SC1 that they were romantically involved with each other. It's like this girl you flirted with once back in the 10th grade turned out to be a real bitch and ended up killing all of your close friends...but you guys flirted once back then, remember? That must mean you guys love each other! (not the greatest example, but you get the point  )
All I'm asking for is, if you're going to pull the "boy loves girl" card, at least build up to it. Show us some more background. Throw in some more dialogue. DO SOMETHING. This is the crux of the WoL storyline and needs to be fleshed out. Anything less is just plain bad storytelling.
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the power of pussy can make you forgive a person that has killed millions of people
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maybe raynor lost his virginity to kerrigan
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I don't think it's really hard to understand why Jim would feel the way he did and choose redemption over revenge. Technically Jim was one of the main reasons why Kerrigan ended up killing Fenix, along with however many millions of civilians that got swarmed. He also thought that he could have done more to help her on Tarsonis. Not sure that I'd feel the the same way, but strong feelings of guilt and depression have a way of clouding judgement. Tychus even said as much when talking to Horner "And Jimmy feels responsible", which basically means that Jim felt that his own hands were as bloody as Kerrigans. It's really ambiguous as far as I see it.
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On October 26 2010 19:47 Sufficiency wrote:
As many other people pointed out already, the story is full of plotholes.
EDIT: I think his attachment is due to the fact that K is still alive (but infested), while the other people you mentioned are simply dead. J tried to save K in SC1 campaign as well.
Only plotholes which I found in the story were all on Tychus, but to be fair Blizzard stories often have big plot holes so maybe people set their expectations higher than Blizzard actually deserve.
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EPT
