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However, banning some sub-copper kid just because he wants a shiny kerrigan avatar and uses a simple min/gas/pop trainer for it.. really? are you guys fucking kidding me that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What competitive player worth his salt gives a shit about mr copper getting full single player games?
The same competitive player that thinks a bronze player using maphacks deserves to be banned. No they'll never meet in the ladder, but that's beside the point.
Imo Blizzard should provide a fair playing field for all, those in silver laddering, those playing the game for achievements, pro players, etc. Players hacking achievements may not affect you - as clearly you do not care about achievements - but it devalues the system for those that do. It's Blizzard's achievement system, and they have every right to protect it from abuse. And good on them for doing so.
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Wow wtf did I buy then with my money if Blizzard's allowed to take it back even for things I choose to do offline?
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I personally haven't cheated single player, but I disagree with Blizz. I spent 5 hours or so to get the Lost Viking achievement, but I don't really care if someone cheats their way to get it...it's just a number on their account. I know "deep down" that I actually beat it myself, and that's the real "achievement" IMO.
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Well Half, after 9 pages of you talking to one guy that could communicate and a wall full of people that can't read.. And after watching you basically trying to explain what essentially amounts to quantum physics to sheep.. I'ts clear that you're running into the same problem I do when talking to people about 'Truth'.. When everyone makes up their own 'Truth' regardless of facts, coupled with not being able to look outside their preconceptions while not supporting their opinions with facts.. Well you've got modern mankind.
I applaud your tact, and well formed posts.
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United Arab Emirates333 Posts
Supporting the bans yes. Supporting the way they went on about doing it, no. I think alot of people meant for it to affect their multi-player achievement score or whatever but alot of people were just using it for the sake of the cheats. A simple single warning would've been great. They don't need to send it to a person's email if they're worrying about people not checking, couldn't there be a battle.net message warning someone. Seriously, i am dissapoint. But who cares we'll all still play the game.
Ultimately, it has become that we are like eggs in a egg carton. When they take out one of our brothers to boil and die(ban un-rightfully), we can just complain to each other about it and just wait and hope Blizzard don't want any more eggs to eat.
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Actually Blizzard warned all people not to hack. First of all, all had to accept the battle.net EULA. Then there also was a blue post on the blizzard forums when they turned on the warden with another warning for hackers. There was also a post in the SCII blog from September 14th (http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/809157) and several articles around the web picked this up.
For me that are enough warnings and I can hardly believe that anyone who hacked / bought a trainer didn't know about the possible consequences.
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On October 12 2010 16:24 MarwanBaki wrote:
Supporting the bans yes. Supporting the way they went on about doing it, no. I think alot of people meant for it to affect their multi-player achievement score or whatever but alot of people were just using it for the sake of the cheats. A simple single warning would've been great. They don't need to send it to a person's email if they're worrying about people not checking, couldn't there be a battle.net message warning someone. Seriously, i am dissapoint. But who cares we'll all still play the game.
Ultimately, it has become that we are like eggs in a egg carton. When they take out one of our brothers to boil and die(ban un-rightfully), we can just complain to each other about it and just wait and hope Blizzard don't want any more eggs to eat.
They can use in-game cheats for that, which disqualify them for achievements. The only reason to use a trainer is to cheat while being eligible for achieves.
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YES!!!
Really, it does not matter if it was ONLY for single player trainers. They modified game files and so they deserve ban. If they put no effort in playing the game, they do not need it.
As other mentioned, they could use in-game cheats to finish singleplayer. If game files modifications would be allowed in singleplayer, what would be next? FFA? Custom games? It is good to stop these cheaters on the first step.
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If these people wanted to "cheat" so much they can just use the in-game cheat codes. This seems like they're banning people who got greedy for achievement points, which albeit extreme, is somewhat reasonable.
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Its a good thing they got ba nned. I totaly support Blizzard on this one.Some people put a lot of effort in getting those achievements no reason why they should let someone cheat there. Even though most people dont care about achievements some do, and those who get them legitimate way deserve respect.
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On October 12 2010 19:11 Uriel_SVK wrote:
YES!!!
Really, it does not matter if it was ONLY for single player trainers. They modified game files and so they deserve ban. If they put no effort in playing the game, they do not need it.
As other mentioned, they could use in-game cheats to finish singleplayer. If game files modifications would be allowed in singleplayer, what would be next? FFA? Custom games? It is good to stop these cheaters on the first step.
Start reading dude, because you obviously have no clue. There is a difference between "hacks"
The standard trainer (which covers around 99.99% or maybe even all of cheathappens triainers) only do local memory lookups to change values. NO GAME FILES GET CHANGED
These are local and single player cheats only and do NOT work in any way shape or form in multiplayer.
Then there are the type of hacks that intercept network packages and sends malicious information back in order to cheat multiplayer.
Now the second form (MP) impacts johny diamond if peter copper hacks his way to his league and wins from him. The first form doesn't impact johny diamond at all, since peter copper now only has some stupid nerdpoints in a singleplaye part of the game that hardly any player that focusses on MP cares about.
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You may not be aware of this, but the way that Blizzard won key lawsuits is the fact that the information Blizzard places in RAM is also part of their copyright. By changing the values of the information placed in ram (the variables such as Min/Gas/Etc), it provides a way of "copying" Blizzard's information and therefore borders on copyright infringement which allows them to send out cease and desists against people who are creating hacks, even for singleplayer.
Alternately, if the information is not saved in RAM but in a local data file that's created by Blizzard, that is also considered changing game files. In short, the variables are stored in RAM or in game files, either way, it's considered by law as a "game file" in their simplified terms. Your argument holds no water when the research on "Blizzard vs Glider" is performed, as Glider's main defense is "We never copied or changed game files" but ultimately they lost the case because the information in RAM was "copied" to another portion of RAM for their program to perform work such as "Lookups".
Bottom line is this, trainers are not recommended for StarCraft 2, Hacks are also not recommended for StarCraft II. If you have a complaint with this, then click "Don't Accept" on the EULA and don't play the game. It's harsh, but the ultimate truth.
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EULA might hold ground in corporate america, but not in europe. And yes the glider dudes lost the case and I wont lose a night sleep over it because they cheated in an mmo environment where it impacted other players in their gameplay. Anyone cheating in SC2 Singleplayer doesnt harm or affect other players in any way.
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On October 12 2010 21:30 Karok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 19:11 Uriel_SVK wrote:
YES!!!
Really, it does not matter if it was ONLY for single player trainers. They modified game files and so they deserve ban. If they put no effort in playing the game, they do not need it.
As other mentioned, they could use in-game cheats to finish singleplayer. If game files modifications would be allowed in singleplayer, what would be next? FFA? Custom games? It is good to stop these cheaters on the first step. Start reading dude, because you obviously have no clue. There is a difference between "hacks" The standard trainer (which covers around 99.99% or maybe even all of cheathappens triainers) only do local memory lookups to change values. NO GAME FILES GET CHANGEDThese are local and single player cheats only and do NOT work in any way shape or form in multiplayer. Then there are the type of hacks that intercept network packages and sends malicious information back in order to cheat multiplayer. Now the second form (MP) impacts johny diamond if peter copper hacks his way to his league and wins from him. The first form doesn't impact johny diamond at all, since peter copper now only has some stupid nerdpoints in a singleplaye part of the game that hardly any player that focusses on MP cares about.
Well did not read all the posts here, sorry for that. I never tried any trainer/cheat for sc2 so i do not know much about how they work. I used trainers for other games, and most of the time there was some file manipulation involved, thats why I thought it would be the same here.
Anyway, reading of local memory (or altering it) is enough for a maphack. At least so much I understand from this thread. So lets say, even if they do not modify game files, they use third-party software. And working priciple of this software can be potentialy used for MP too.
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I'm not entirely sure about how the maphack works, but basic resources are serverbased and as far as i know can't be manipulated locally.
either way: SP cheating = who gives a shit, MP cheating = get the hell off mah battlenets 
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17 pages of people who mostly don't seem to get it :/
Blizzard are banning people for using 3rd party programs to cheat to help them unlock achievements.
Achievements are attached to your multiplayer Battle.net account. There are cheat codes in the game to give you godmode, infinite minerals, reveal the map etc. but these all disable the achievements, hence why people are using 3rd party programs to get them.
Achievements are a big deal to some people and if Blizzard are going to let people cheat to get them they might as well give everyone every achievement.
They had to take action against this or everyone will start using cheats to get any achievement they find hard.
If they had been using these mods in offline mode they would have been fine. They cheated in an online environment, they got banned, good job Blizzard.
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On October 13 2010 01:03 licarn wrote:
17 pages of people who mostly don't seem to get it :/
Blizzard are banning people for using 3rd party programs to cheat to help them unlock achievements.
Achievements are attached to your multiplayer Battle.net account. There are cheat codes in the game to give you godmode, infinite minerals, reveal the map etc. but these all disable the achievements, hence why people are using 3rd party programs to get them.
Achievements are a big deal to some people and if Blizzard are going to let people cheat to get them they might as well give everyone every achievement.
They had to take action against this or everyone will start using cheats to get any achievement they find hard.
If they had been using these mods in offline mode they would have been fine. They cheated in an online environment, they got banned, good job Blizzard.
Achievements are attached to your singleplayer AND multiplayer Battle.net account.
And yes, it might be a big deal for some people, and if there was no distinction between the single and multiplayer achievements I might have agreed, but there is a CLEAR distinction between single and multiplayer achievements, they are well sectioned, you can clearly see which are singleplayer and multiplayer achievements in the UI of the game.
I really don't get why people are so concerned about the dealings of other people in the singleplayer part of the game. If I managed the achievements legit, cool, do I care if someone else got them through cheating? fuck no, their loss on the actual achievement feeling. Again, take a long hard look in the mirror and wonder why you give a crap about what someone else does in a game that doesn't affect you in the slightest.
Someone who feels his/her achievements are diminished in any way shape or form because someone else cheated their way to get it needs some mental help.
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On October 13 2010 05:13 Karok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 01:03 licarn wrote:
17 pages of people who mostly don't seem to get it :/
Blizzard are banning people for using 3rd party programs to cheat to help them unlock achievements.
Achievements are attached to your multiplayer Battle.net account. There are cheat codes in the game to give you godmode, infinite minerals, reveal the map etc. but these all disable the achievements, hence why people are using 3rd party programs to get them.
Achievements are a big deal to some people and if Blizzard are going to let people cheat to get them they might as well give everyone every achievement.
They had to take action against this or everyone will start using cheats to get any achievement they find hard.
If they had been using these mods in offline mode they would have been fine. They cheated in an online environment, they got banned, good job Blizzard. Achievements are attached to your singleplayer AND multiplayer Battle.net account. And yes, it might be a big deal for some people, and if there was no distinction between the single and multiplayer achievements I might have agreed, but there is a CLEAR distinction between single and multiplayer achievements, they are well sectioned, you can clearly see which are singleplayer and multiplayer achievements in the UI of the game. I really don't get why people are so concerned about the dealings of other people in the singleplayer part of the game. If I managed the achievements legit, cool, do I care if someone else got them through cheating? fuck no, their loss on the actual achievement feeling. Again, take a long hard look in the mirror and wonder why you give a crap about what someone else does in a game that doesn't affect you in the slightest. Someone who feels his/her achievements are diminished in any way shape or form because someone else cheated their way to get it needs some mental help.
Someone may feel his achievements are diminished because of hackers, that hack the game to get achievements and people know that Blizzard isn't catching every single hacker, thus leaving doubts in some people's mind and can easily discredit them for not doing X the legit way and it's annoying when they manage to convince other people of that theory.
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So your argument rests on: People can be twats over the intertubes?
And instead of responding like a sane person to those who doubt your achievement in a fashion like such:
"I did that achievement legit and I dont give a flying fuck what you think"
go on a mental breakdown?
I guess in the end it comes down to self-esteem, are you confident enough to get react to those trolls, or do you falter as soon as they question your ability to get those achievements.
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On October 12 2010 04:37 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:36 Sentenal wrote:On October 12 2010 04:28 Half wrote:On October 12 2010 04:27 Seide wrote:
Modyfing game files is modyfing game files. It is against the ToS whether it is in single player or multiplayer. Sucks for the people who got banned, but you cannot argue Blizzard being in the wrong for this. So you're essentially arguing that people who purchase digital products are entitled to absolutely no consumer rights and protections? Clauses of the ToS like prohibiting multiplayer exploitation have legal basis. They interfere with the operations of company owned servers, and could, technically, be prosecuted as the distribution of malware. There is no legal legislation that prohibits consumers from modifying the code of there product, so long as no reverse engineering of encrypted information is involved. Moreover, no legal legislation I support these bans. If you notice these "trainers" don't do anything that the ingame cheats for SC2 do EXCEPT disable achievements. That is you can just use those ingame cheats to achieve the same effect, but you won't get achievements.
The SOLE reason to use a trainer like this is to cheat in order to get achievements. So yes they should be banned for that. This is false. If they said they agreed to the terms of use, then that means they agreed to be banned if they modified game files. What people were doing here was harmless, but if it goes against the terms of use, Blizzard has every right to ban them. No, they don't. The idea that TOS supersedes consumer rights and legal authority is absolutely retarded. No, ToS was intended to be used to maintain legal authority and support consumer rights, not for companies to subvert both for a higher profit margin.
Sadly man its blizzards baby and if you touch their baby in the wrong way they are going to smash you, when you log into the game you accept the license and term agreements once that is done you have agreed to their terms to play THEIR game, using a 3rd party software for single player isn't a big deal no one should care that you cheat in single player, but when you use those 3rd party programs that are out their couldn't they easily be migrated to multi-player ? the answer is yes. Blizzards choice for banning people using 3rd party software IMO is good, it is sad that people got banned for using it in single player but lets get realistic, you can use the blizzard issued cheats for single player... there is no need for a "mod" to change the game for you to see the story the in game cheats will give you everything you need. just remember you play blizzards game its not yours its not something you created yourself, you do not own rights to this game. Blizzard owns them and because they do, they can ban people for using 3rd party software that breaks their game. these bans come to a very welcome place in my heart single player or no.. play single player use blizzards cheats and smash face in multi-player i hope the people useing a 3rd party system to map hack drop hack etc etc get thoroughly banned and your 60 bucks is wasted because you deserve it.
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