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On August 04 2010 03:15 Bio-Leera wrote:
I find the goliath one of the best units in the single player. with the ability to attack both air and ground at the same time they were my choice for AA. essential for missions of engine of destruction, and at the gates of hell. the latter a lot because of all the scourge flying around. with their ability to attack ground and still shoot air i see them like a direct counter to brood lords.
You managed to get goliaths to work vs bro lords? This actually surprises me, as bro lords are so dominating against ground targets. Looking forward to playing through with air enabled on the last mission (without the MC cheese, hehe).
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On August 04 2010 04:20 Shaithis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 03:15 Bio-Leera wrote:
I find the goliath one of the best units in the single player. with the ability to attack both air and ground at the same time they were my choice for AA. essential for missions of engine of destruction, and at the gates of hell. the latter a lot because of all the scourge flying around. with their ability to attack ground and still shoot air i see them like a direct counter to brood lords. You managed to get goliaths to work vs bro lords? This actually surprises me, as bro lords are so dominating against ground targets. Looking forward to playing through with air enabled on the last mission (without the MC cheese, hehe).
I don't know why you'd want to do that =/.
I'm pretty much 100% screwed on my brutal achievement without playing through again. I *may* have an old save so I can take out air and have a shot, but I dunno.
-Don't have the siege tank friendly fire upgrade
-Don't have PFs
-Don't have MC tower
-Have specters without lash
-Don't think I have viking upgrades. I thought I got them, but they didn't seem to be splash last time I played.
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I am 15 missions into brutal. I previously beat the game on normal. I am tempted to try psi emitters this time around. Maybe use several of them in 'All In' to control ultras or broodlords depending on which missions I pick.
Drop pods. They don't get much love. While I agree they are the clear 2nd choice. The drop pods seem like they would be useful/fun when you have to rescue allies or if you have objectives to destroy. Simply make several raxes and set the rally point to the objective.
So are there any people that have beat the brutal campaign who picked psi emitters or drop pods? Edit:: I realize they seem like a gimmicky but has anyone actually tried to use them for brutal?
edit:: Just to clarify - I used techreactors and the psi disruptors on my first play through.
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@TreyMendus,
i think ur really making this game a brutal mission for you. drop pods and psi emitters are cute but they simply arnt game winning upgrades like their counterpart.
the pt of brutal difficulty is so that you can't just make stupid decisions and get away with it like you did on normal.
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On August 04 2010 04:26 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 04:20 Shaithis wrote:On August 04 2010 03:15 Bio-Leera wrote:
I find the goliath one of the best units in the single player. with the ability to attack both air and ground at the same time they were my choice for AA. essential for missions of engine of destruction, and at the gates of hell. the latter a lot because of all the scourge flying around. with their ability to attack ground and still shoot air i see them like a direct counter to brood lords. You managed to get goliaths to work vs bro lords? This actually surprises me, as bro lords are so dominating against ground targets. Looking forward to playing through with air enabled on the last mission (without the MC cheese, hehe). I don't know why you'd want to do that =/. I'm pretty much 100% screwed on my brutal achievement without playing through again. I *may* have an old save so I can take out air and have a shot, but I dunno. -Don't have the siege tank friendly fire upgrade -Don't have PFs -Don't have MC tower -Have specters without lash -Don't think I have viking upgrades. I thought I got them, but they didn't seem to be splash last time I played.
Haha, you are precisely where I was, except that I did not have any bunker upgrades to boot. Here is what finally worked for me:
+ Show Spoiler +Take out the useless debris (sand bags, wtf) and wall off with engineering bays in a concave towards the bunker, and put 2 psi emitters on each side. Keep 8+ scvs on each side to repair the wall and bunker, where you will want to place a merc firebat and a merc marauder. Get about 8-12 siege tanks on each side, including the mercs, and have 8-12 banshees including the mercs flying around taking out nydus. Move each BC over your wall to help defend / yamato Ultys, move them back when the boss comes out because they are first priority for instagib. For dealing with the boss, get 2 thors out by its first appearance and make sure that you have at least 24 marines, then add 2 thors and rebuild marines for future appearances. Thor stun + stim + banshees + tanks is the best way to take it out, but be prepared to rebuild. I finished the mission with a single Thor keeping the boss stunned on the plateau at 99.8% after taking out 256 zerg with one blast of the shiny thing, which was the one time that I used it. You will want to use your banshees to bait the first orange sphere of death once they start coming out, and move your mass of marines out of the second one.
By the way, make a bunch of unupgraded missile turrets to deal with the overlord wave, don't waste a blast on it.
On August 04 2010 04:26 TreyMendus wrote:
I am 15 missions into brutal. I previously beat the game on normal. I am tempted to try psi emitters this time around. Maybe use several of them in 'All In' to control ultras or broodlords depending on which missions I pick.
Drop pods. They don't get much love. While I agree they are the clear 2nd choice. The drop pods seem like they would be useful/fun when you have to rescue allies or if you have objectives to destroy. Simply make several raxes and set the rally point to the objective.
So are there any people that have beat the brutal campaign who picked psi emitters or drop pods?
By "psi-emitter," I think that you are talking about the MC device. I linked a thread in the OP where the author beats the final mission on Brutal with clever use of the MC devices, although I do think that it's a bit cheap. Regarding drop pods, there's just no point; the one achievement where you have to reinforce multiple objectives at the same time is perfectly doable without them.
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Good advice, but it seems geared towards the ground-only version. I have broodlords and mutas to contend with. Fortunately that does mean no ultys at least. Unfortunately it means every time I try to use siege tanks the broodlings cause massive amounts of friendly fire.
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On August 04 2010 05:06 Logo wrote:
Good advice, but it seems geared towards the ground-only version. I have broodlords and mutas to contend with. Fortunately that does mean no ultys at least. Unfortunately it means every time I try to use siege tanks the broodlings cause massive amounts of friendly fire.
Sorry, I thought that you were on the ground-only version. Try massing vikings with only a few tanks close together so they can't splash each other; you don't really have a lot of ground forces to deal with. Support vikings with marines, goliaths and thors vs mutas, and maybe even make a few BCs to help the tanks defend. You may need to split the vikings up and save / reload to position them properly to take out all bro lords. Or you can reload and try the ground version; got to do the mission anyway for the achievement and it's actually a lot of fun!
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I think bio steel and energy research are really the only arguable research choices. I went with bio steel but I can't help but think the energy one would have been better. As soon as i got battlecruisers i usually just massed them and some science vessels but they ran out of energy really fast. For all in, bio steel doesn't really matter because you should have alot of scvs repairing your PFs as well as your tanks. I can't really think of any mission where biosteel would be much better than healing/repairing with science vessels/scvs.
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On August 04 2010 05:26 itsben wrote:
I think bio steel and energy research are really the only arguable research choices. I went with bio steel but I can't help but think the energy one would have been better. As soon as i got battlecruisers i usually just massed them and some science vessels but they ran out of energy really fast. For all in, bio steel doesn't really matter because you should have alot of scvs repairing your PFs as well as your tanks. I can't really think of any mission where biosteel would be much better than healing/repairing with science vessels/scvs.
Biosteel + micro + reloads helped keep most of my banshees alive while they were running to and fro in All-In; can't really afford to burn gas on science vessels in that mission.
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On August 04 2010 05:28 Shaithis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 05:26 itsben wrote:
I think bio steel and energy research are really the only arguable research choices. I went with bio steel but I can't help but think the energy one would have been better. As soon as i got battlecruisers i usually just massed them and some science vessels but they ran out of energy really fast. For all in, bio steel doesn't really matter because you should have alot of scvs repairing your PFs as well as your tanks. I can't really think of any mission where biosteel would be much better than healing/repairing with science vessels/scvs. Biosteel + micro + reloads helped keep most of my banshees alive while they were running to and fro in All-In; can't really afford to burn gas on science vessels in that mission.
I said you didn't need bio steel because of scvs repair and not because of science vessels. Also i just remembered that the energy upgrade also helps thor in the final mission as well. I think both are fine choices but if i were to play it again, I'd probably go with the energy because it seems more helpful in more missions.
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Which mercenaries should you get? I just completed normal without any mercs, never felt I missed anything. In many missions I'd kill the merc compound to make space for other buildings. Obviously in brutal things are a bit different. Which mercs are worthwhile compared to spending the money on upgrades?
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Drop pods > tech reactor, everyone upgrades warp gates as Protoss right? Well drop pods are essentially warp gates except you can queue units and don't need a pylon... the ability to take distant objectives and reinforce anywhere is amazing, better than the small amount of resources saved by tech reactor. I like the medic upgrade that removes the need for a tech lab to go with this.
The missile turret upgrades and fire extinguishers are great against muta raids, they love to kill your repairing SCVs on brutal
I hired the marine, tank, viking and banshee mercs, all with both upgrades ASAP. Worth the cost, they're more durable.
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On August 04 2010 00:56 Shaithis wrote:
Armory Upgrades
Base
Bunker: I would upgrade the range ASAP, then pick up the extra capacity midway through the campaign. Defensive missions and achievements are not very common, but tend to be the most difficult challenges on Brutal. Rating: 9 and 9.
I never used the bunker upgrades and very rarely used bunkers, 9/9 is pretty strong. I'd say skip it unless you're having trouble surviving, there are better ups out there.
On August 04 2010 00:56 Shaithis wrote:
Missile Turret: Skip. There is one reason you may want to have these, but it is not something that I really recommend doing on Brutal, particularly if you are trying to get the Hard achievement. Rating: 1 and 1.
Double volley with the turrets is awesome, in most cases my army was very tank heavy, having rape turrets was invaluable
On August 04 2010 00:56 Shaithis wrote:
Command Center For auto-repair, follow the same logic as stated above for the first SCV upgrade; it can possibly help but not as much as other upgrades, particularly when credits are tight. Orbital command, you would be nuts not to buy immediately; MULEs are still as amazing as always, particularly for timed missions. Rating: 5 and 10. I found auto repair to be useless, your scv's have auto repair built in anyway, its not a big deal to click one of them over
Infantry
On August 04 2010 00:56 Shaithis wrote:
Medic: The first upgrade is garbage, don't even think about it. The increased heal ability, on the other hand, can be very useful in the first half of the game, where you will indubitably be running a bio-heavy army. Rating: 0 and 9.
First upgrade is awesome, being able to double produce medics is incredibly useful, you can get a lot of them out early and charge energy. Also if yo're doing 3rax 2reactor 1tech like I did you're never gonna get good medic saturation without cutting basically all your marauders. In fact with that up getting marauders is a huge pain in the ass because they're always fighting with your need for medics. Get it as soon as you get increased healing ability
On August 04 2010 00:56 Shaithis wrote:
Firebat: I am undecided about these guys. Being a multiplayer vet, I was immediately drawn to hellions to fill the purpose of area splash vs light units. That said, firebats backed by upgraded medics absolutely dominate everything that is not a roach or ultralisk. Pick and upgrade the one you like, and forget about the other. If you pick firebats, you will want them up-front, consequently upgrade armor first. Rating: special.
+2 armor looked so tempting but don't do it, you will never use firebats after the day night level.
On August 04 2010 00:56 Shaithis wrote:
Marauder: These guys are your ticket to taking down anything that your firebats can't deal with if you are running a bio army. Without stimpacks, though, they are nowhere near as dominating of a force as in multiplayer. I would only take their upgrades if you are absolutely dedicated to your bio army, otherwise I am pretty sure that the mercs come with the slow upgrade, and you can bring them with your bioball if this is your primary concern. Upgrading their health is an expensive waste as they will never become as durable as upgraded firebats. Rating: 4 and 1
You will never use firebats, marauders are better. Get slow it's fantastic, health isn't really a must but I got it because I was getting a lot of marauders, didn't regret it.
On August 04 2010 00:56 Shaithis wrote:
Vehicles
This all seems good, I'll do the rest later. Overall its pretty good but I have some disagreements
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Upgraded hellions are absolutely amazing. Just learned that. In any zerg level without heavy air, massing hellions is absolutely brutal for the enemy.
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The campaign is easy enough, i just picked everything not in multiplayer, and while some was bad, i was pretty happy about testing out new stuff not in MP
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Although the Wraith upgrades was somewhat useless, I disagree with your bashing of the unit. The fact that its a cloaked air unit that hits both air and ground made them very dangerous if used right... and by right I mean, not just a-move.
At least I abused them heavily from the moment I got them, and found them particular useful in both colonist finale missions, where you're supposed to use vikings instead. I did however use them mostly backed up by raven point defense drones when taking out detection.
The units you prefer all depends on playstyle though, although I find it hard to see anyone playing the campaign on brutal without core units like siege tanks or stimmed rines.
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Nice writeup, I've actually been not upgrading until I get stuck and really need to.
- medic healing/rine stim for early missions is really useful (or if you decide to use bio later). Marauder slow was pretty useful too. I skipped most other infantry stuff.
-Sci vessel was so useful for me, probably saved the day on brutal supernova + engine of destruction. With banshee splash too hehe
-both tank stuff upgrades
-I upgraded mech stuff, thinking I could go mech over bio, so far some maps just dont allow it gas/time-wise. So becareful in snubbing infantry etc without seeing the mission first.
- I agree on Orbital over autorefinery.
-hmm I got biosteel, seems Ok. but I'm worried now since many of you mentioned bc/thor mana situations in later missions. Biosteel has been pretty good, but I guess maybe doable with only vessel.
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I don't think the orbital is worth it at the end. You get an extra 9 scvs to play with in the last mission and you still get gas going. Just imo.
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The orbital drop thing would actually be decent if you got it earlier. As it stands, every mission after you get it is overtly focused on air combat except the last one, which is a defense mission, and of course, the "Gates of Hell" mission, where it makes for an easy win.
Also: Don't use firebats. Most of my firebats ended getting stuck behind the rest of my infantry.
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I unfortunatly diagree with most of you opinions on the protoss tech tree.
Reactor on cc is needless later on as you start with SO many scvs anyway, the refinery helps get extra gas in without actually expanding just by building the refinary. Very good for mech or upgrades.
More health is amazing on battle cruisers with specialised energy as they start with enough to yamato and have a cap of 2 yamato's each making the attack speed unnessesary.
Mass BC 3/3 with science vessels is amazing.
As BIO is so powerful in missions against AI, I recommend drop pods which lets you instantly reinforce and with enough barracks. Scan drop down 12+ merauders and snipe an objective.
As for Zerg Research.
If later you want to go 3/3 BC which is unstoppable then defo go for spec energy. This is also amazing with ravens and science vessels.
Hive mind emulator is AMAZING, it's the single most overpowered structure in the game. Building 6-8 of them and using them to controle EVERY ENEMY EVER that comes in any wave is beyond IMBA. I finished the final mission with 50/200 cp and a zerg army which keeps its upgrades costing well over 400 food.
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EPT
