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Yeah, dangerous if you're an idiot and bounce off the box. You can also kill yourself benching by dropping the bar on your neck. Not relevant.
Also, if we're going to appeal to authority, Joe Defranco actually replied to that EXACT QUOTE you posted.
Q: Joe,
I love box squatting and have been preaching the benefits of them to my
soccer buddies for getting them stronger and faster. However, I read
this today from Charles Poliquin on T-Nation when asked about box
squatting…
"I never use them. With athletes, you want the most bang for
your buck, the highest return, because you only have eleven weeks on
average to train them during their off-season. So the choice of
exercises becomes really important. The problem I have with box squats is that their application is limited to powerlifting. Essentially in the box squat, your shins don't travel forward. Now I don't know of any sport where the shins don't travel
forward for propulsion. So the mechanics of the box squat aren't found
in sport."
I'd love to hear your opinion on this statement. I read a lot of Charles
articles and find him very informative but this statement is sure to
ruffle a few feathers. Happy Christmas!
Aidan
A: Aidan,
I’m sure that there will be a lot of arguments on internet forums because of Charles’ statement. Let the “box-squatters” vs. “Olympic squatters” debate begin!!
Those of you that regularly read my website know that I am a big advocate of box squatting for many reasons: I feel box squats are easier to teach than “Olympic squats”, they strengthen the often overlooked posterior chain, you can set the depth of the squat so every rep looks exactly the same, they don’t place as much stress on your knees, you can recover faster from box-squatting, etc., etc. My list of the positive benefits of box squatting can go on and on.
Now, I agree that in almost all sports the shins travel forward for propulsion, BUT, I do not feel that we have to mimic this with EVERY lower body strength training exercise. Remember that all work performed in the weightroom is GPP (unless you are a powerlifter or Olympic weightlifter). Because of this, I just try to choose exercises that help strengthen all of the muscles that are used in an athlete’s particular sport. This is how my program has evolved and it’s how I came up with my main lower body template. For example, the reason that we almost always follow box-squatting with a quad-dominant, unilateral movement is to create “balanced” strength in the athlete. Since box-squatting emphasizes the hamstrings (because we’re sitting back and our shins are remaining somewhat perpendicular to the floor), we follow this with a quad-dominant, unilateral movement in which the athlete’s shins DO travel forward during the exercise. (This strengthens the quads to a greater degree than box-squatting. These exercises also help to keep our athletes flexible because most of them require a much larger range of motion, compared to box squatting.)
squat
Developing this type of “balanced” strength & flexibility in the weightroom IN CONJUNCTION WITH PLAYING YOUR SPORT is what makes your strength “sport-specific”.
With all that being said, there is no “be-all, end-all” exercise in the weightroom. As much as I believe in box-squatting, there are MANY athletes out there that have succeeded in their sport without ever performing a box squat. This also holds true for many other exercises. The moral of the story is to find out what works best for YOU!
Joe D.
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On June 01 2009 03:47 sexsexpussyhair wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2009 13:21 CultureMisfits wrote:
eh, if you have well trained and flawless form, nothing beats the back squat imo. The back squat with barbell is the absolute BEST exercise for obtaining mass. For certain people the front squat can be bad on the knees and you also have to concentrate on the position of your arms so that the elbows stay high and do not come in contact with the knees.
and why would you do squats to work your core? that is what core work is for. have you even read what i posted??????? flawless form and perfect form makes no difference at all, the whole reason of putting weight in front of you is to force core stability and build core strength. all that stuff i have said is backed by actual scientific research done by the university of florida and published in the journal of strength and conditioning research. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19002072?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSumyou can keep doing back squat all you want, i'll do my front squat.
Im not discrediting the front squat, but to say that it is superior to the back squat is bogus. With the back squat you can do more weight which gives you more intensity on the legs. This is what the squat is for. You can lift a lot more weight with the back squat than the front squat. You want to be able to use as much weight as possible (while maintaining good form). The more weight and higher intensity you use the more you will grow. Why would you want to replace leg intensity so that you can train the core. They're are so many good core exercises one can do to strengthen their core. Hell, i would suggest most people to wear a built when they squat as well which removes a lot of the intensity on the core. Its safer for the back and it will increase your poundage.
The front squat is a good exercise, and it is suitable for many people, depending on their body structure. However, to discredit the back squat, and say that the front squat is better, is complete bullshit. Your main argument for the front squat being better is that it works core, when the squat is for the most part a leg workout and there is plenty of core exercises to do.
Haha you're own article even refutes what you say. You discredit the back squat and make it seem like a crappy exercise. In your posts you glorify the front squat and act as if it is so much superior but the article says this..
The front squat was as effective as the back squat in terms of overall muscle recruitment, with significantly less compressive forces and extensor moments. The results suggest that front squats may be advantageous compared with back squats for individuals with knee problems such as meniscus tears, and for long-term joint health.
As i said, if you can do the back squat safely, it is preferable to back squat, and that the front squat can be more suitable for people who have knee problems, or have a weird joint structure due to genetics.
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Today for my training did plyometrics...basically just a shit ton of variations of box jumps. then we did medicine ball throws down a field front and both sides. Then i did the same leg workout aforementioned.
I already feel faster and like i'm hitting a lot of leg muscles i never was before. and i feel my form is much better as i get my knees higher, run more on the balls of my feet, and use better arm movement. And i think im already seeing a little bit better definition even after 3 sessions. every time i leave i'm drenched in sweat T_T
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Bump... just did my fifth session.
My advice to anyone who hates running is to try running sprints at a 40 degree incline at 10 mph. After doing that for an hour you will LOVE sprinting on flat ground.
After that i did my leg workout for like an hour...my legs hate me so much right now. But its worth it.
Also, my mom told me while i was drinking my protein shake that the body only absorbs 20g protein at a time and the rest turns to fat. Confirm/deny?
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Decaf:
Don't do too much plyo if you're fairly new to exercising... plyo because of the high impacts can easily result in overuse very quickly. Muscle soreness is fine but if you ever feel joint/tendon/ligament soreness you wanna cut back some.
Also, my mom told me while i was drinking my protein shake that the body only absorbs 20g protein at a time and the rest turns to fat. Confirm/deny?
Myth. Athletes who have to eat 4k+ calories to maintain bodyweight (well, 7k in Michael Phelps case) wouldn't be able to handle their meals if that's the case. Bodybuilders especially when they're putting down 1.5-2+ g/lbs protein.
Fact is our bodies have active transport for proteins in our small intestines with HUGE amounts of surface area so it's fairly efficient at picking up much of the nutrients it needs. So eat to your hearts content. 
-----------------------
Energies:
Cinnamon helps improve insulin sensitivity. + Show Spoiler + Not sure of pricing of chromium picolinate before but if it costs a lot I'd probably drop it in favor of cinnamon (plus the jury's still out on chromium picolinate anyway).
The thing that's going to improve insulin sensitivity the most is diet and exercise though so you should be fine.
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Regarding the front squats vs. back squats...
The main problem with front squats since the knees come significantly over the toes is that it mitigates hamstring involvement in the squat leading to dominant quads and glutes. You can see this clearly with Olympic lifters (from heavy usage of front squat in the clean and jerk).
Back squats, especially ones that "sit back", like low bar back squats, box squats, etc. tend to be more posterior chain dominant which is very important for athletic ability.
In this sense, I'd agree with DeFranco's analysis over Poliquin's that such posterior chain work is more important for athletes. In gym stuff doesn't necessarily have to be about "athletic movements" (since you're obviously training athletic movements outside to apply the strength/power you gained in the gym). I mean... both have good resume's so technically you can't go wrong with listening to either of them most of the time though.
As far as something like sprinting goes though deadlift is the king. + Show Spoiler + Deadlift is heavily posterior chain like box squats and low bar back squats except you don't get as great a depth (and don't need it for sprinting).
As far as injuries go if you're not creating significant muscle imbalances (by working only your beach muscles for instance) and training with perfect technique, you're 99.99% not going to get injured unless you get some freak acute injury. Think about it.... everyone you know who was injured in the weight room was probably being a dumbass or had really bad technique.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On May 24 2009 13:47 thedeadhaji wrote:
January Weight: 165lbs
May Weight: 160lbs
Current Weight: 154lbs
doing like 300 situps while watching some vids (vods or otherwise) on the comp is like the EZest workout ever hahahahaha.
edit: and good lord having proper shoes makes such a huge diff when running, jesus.
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Hahaha holy shit, i failed harrrrrrrrd!
I totally forgot about this and spent the last 6months sitting on my ass in school and partying.
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On June 11 2009 15:25 decafchicken wrote:
Bump... just did my fifth session.
My advice to anyone who hates running is to try running sprints at a 40 degree incline at 10 mph. After doing that for an hour you will LOVE sprinting on flat ground.
After that i did my leg workout for like an hour...my legs hate me so much right now. But its worth it.
Also, my mom told me while i was drinking my protein shake that the body only absorbs 20g protein at a time and the rest turns to fat. Confirm/deny?
Mh well I can't say anything for sure, but I heard that the kidney can only deal with so much protein at a time and therefore bodybuilders take only 20g protein shakes but do like every 2 hours.
The explanation that it "turns into fat" seems silly though since proteins consist of amino acids and surely they aren't gonna change their molecular structure and suddenly appear as fat cells.
hm and googling I found this about proteins and kidney:
+ Show Spoiler + Erstaunen über die Aussage, dass „ein erhöhter Protein Konsum schädlich für die Nieren ist“.
Diese Aussage ist zurückzuführen auf eine ÜBERLEGUNG in einer Studie aus dem Jahre 1999 wobei es um den Stressfaktor der Niere bei Proteinkonsum ging! Eine Überlegung ist allerdings kein Wissenschaftliches Ergebnis. Weitere Studien wurden an Probanden vollzogen, die bereits unter einen Nierenleiden litten!
Eine Erhöhter Proteinkonsum bewirk bei einem Übergewichtigen (Laut einer Wissenschaftlichen Studie der Universität Kopenhagen) einen Wachstum bzw. eine Verbesserung der Nierenleistung um rund 10%!
Laut Cordian L. Miller liegt eine theoretisch berechnete Obergrenze des Proteinkonsums, eines 80 Kg schweren Mannes, bei 250 Gramm pro Tag Eine toxische Wirkung von Protein wurde an gesunden Probanden nie nachgewiesen!
Translation is something like this: It's surprising when people say large protein consumption can damage the kidney, this is based on a THEORY from studies in 1999 about the stress factor of the kidney when consuming protein.
However these werent scientific results.
Greater protein consumption by people with overweight actually leads to growth/ improvement of the kidney. Theoretically a man who weighs 80kg shouldnt consume more than 250g of proteins per day but a toxic effect of proteins was never proven
Anyways this still doesn't answer your question but if your main goal is to gain muscle then you definitely shouldn't care, just keep consuming a lot of proteins.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
btw i love this thread b/c every time I bump it, like 20 pple add useful content into it <3
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On June 14 2009 21:58 thedeadhaji wrote:
btw i love this thread b/c every time I bump it, like 20 pple add useful content into it <3
hehe yea I didnt even know this thread until you just bumped it.
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Good to see this thread still running. I really got to read up on these things and get up to date, planning to start power training again when the academic year finishes, now I'm just trying to stay in shape a bit by doing endurance training 5 times a week.
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So here are my data:
Age: 20, height: 5'9'' (?? I'm not sure how your system works, I'm 1.80m,converter says thats 5.9 feet)
weight: 171.6 lbs
1st goal: gain some more muscle-> weight of about 183 lbs
2nd goal: as soon as I'm there lose so much weight that I have a good looking six-pack
starting date: summer 09
goal date: end of 2009
current foto (contracting every muscle so I look as buff as possible ;p):
+ Show Spoiler +
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On June 14 2009 22:26 7mk wrote:So here are my data: Age: 20, height: 5'9'' (?? I'm not sure how your system works, I'm 1.80m,converter says thats 5.9 feet) weight: 171.6 lbs 1st goal: gain some more muscle-> weight of about 183 lbs 2nd goal: as soon as I'm there lose so much weight that I have a good looking six-pack starting date: summer 09 goal date: end of 2009 current foto (contracting every muscle so I look as buff as possible ;p): + Show Spoiler +
Haha, 1.8m is 5.9 feet, which is about 5'11" (0.9 feet = 11 inches)
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On June 11 2009 15:51 eshlow wrote:
Decaf:
Don't do too much plyo if you're fairly new to exercising... plyo because of the high impacts can easily result in overuse very quickly. Muscle soreness is fine but if you ever feel joint/tendon/ligament soreness you wanna cut back some.
lol i think i'll be fine ^_^
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I'm at 149.5 woohoo! I broke 150 at last.
In quite a short amount of time, I'm getting excited
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Age: 22
Height: 5'11"
Current Weight: 240-245lbs
Goal Weight: 220lbs
Starting Date: June 16th
Goal Date: Halloween
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My glutes are sore 
Did a shit ton of box jumps/line jumps/throwing medicine balls. and then i decided to run some on the treadmill to see how fast i could go and broke 20 mph then i did my leg work out and killed my entire lower body and now i'm really sore lol. I'm definitely losing a little bit of fat and putting on some definition in my lower body even though thats not really what im there for, its a nice side effect
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does anyone do olympic lifting? It doesnt seem to get much response here
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EPT
