EPT2023 NFL/CFB Season - Page 17
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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UsedEgg3
126 Posts
On October 12 2021 14:12 Jerubaal wrote: Totally purely coincidental that the League plant in the NFLPA gets a favorable hit piece right before he's about to get voted out. It seems like there was one comment about De Smith, and a deluge of stuff about all kinda other ppl (Goodell, owners, Eric Reid, etc). This isn't about anyone except Gruden. I was almost supportive of Gruden at first, like it was one comment from 10 years ago possibly taken out of context. But naw, in light of everything else the dude deserves what he's getting. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On October 13 2021 02:04 UsedEgg3 wrote: It seems like there was one comment about De Smith, and a deluge of stuff about all kinda other ppl (Goodell, owners, Eric Reid, etc). This isn't about anyone except Gruden. I was almost supportive of Gruden at first, like it was one comment from 10 years ago possibly taken out of context. But naw, in light of everything else the dude deserves what he's getting. If there's one thing you should have learned in the last couple of years is that there are no such things as accidents in things like this. You're right that he made the mistake of voicing his opinion on verboten topics whereas he would have been forgiven for saying far worse things about approved punching bags. The timing is still extremely suspicious, though. Also, everyone always sees these situations and thinks "this could never happen to me", until it does. Certainly to probably 90% of the NFL players. I mean, think about it. This was essentially a self-own by the NFL. This was a burn job. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On October 13 2021 05:29 JimmiC wrote: WTF are you talking about. He said absolutely awful things you just shouldn't say. The thing I never can quite fathom about internet people is that, despite all their assertions about diversity and toleration, they expect everyone to talk like they just came from a Marcel Proust reading. It's quite a convenient tactic though if you want to persecute people who you deem to be beneath you. Again, the crassness is the excuse, but the real crime was not attacking the right targets. Of course, if he was attacking the right targets, I'm sure he'd do it in a sufficiently rarefied way that it would be acceptable to you. The elephant in the room is that probably every single player he's ever coached says far more obscene things on a regular basis. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
>I object to the League pressuring teams to draft a player to make a political statement about tolerance. >Obama is feckless and Biden is clueless. >I do not think that women should referee as they do not and forseeably will not play in the NFL, and I believe that this is another PR stunt. >I believe that Goodell is more interested in the business and image of the NFL than he is of the health of the game. I don't really know how to approach the D. Smith comment, but andrewlt assured me that there was one free pass. Is it, then, your position that if the above statements had been found in the emails that this would have been a non-issue? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On October 13 2021 07:34 farvacola wrote: Folks shouldn’t forget that, in addition to saying stupid shit unbecoming of a coach using a medium that leaves an easy to trace trail, Jon Gruden shared topless pics of cheerleaders that were taken in what appear to be heinous circumstances. What's that verb? Shared? That has some connonation, doesn't it? Like you're under the impression Gruden had a stash of hidden camera lockerroom photoes he sent out to all his frat buddies. I've also seen the very carefully selected 'exchanged' and 'received'. Well, which is it? Your verb is wrong. He didn't take the pictures or send them to anyone, as far as we know. But why do we need to be careful with words when we can create such fantastic images as "forced to pose topless against their will"? I suspect they were told to do it or be fired, but that would be too precise. It wouldn't let us imagine the worst. Let's also notice that 90% of the articles are remarkably imprecise about the actual words he typed, just the usual ctrl+v(racist, homophobic, misogynistic). Why do you think they do that? They don't want to actually know what he said because that puts boundaries around the sin. Saying something rude? That's forgiveable. Not wanting a change in policy? Times change. But if he's just a -ist and -phobe...that's the death penalty, my dude. @JimmiC Darn. I almost got you to engage there for a second. Good call. Just keep throwing the kitchen sink. For anyone who's still paying attention, let me break it down for you. I was trying to get JimmiC to distinguish between the crude manner in which Gruden phrased his statements and the actual positions he took. I wanted JimmiC to tell me if those positions are objectionable, or if it's because of the insulting manner he used. I think that's a pretty clear question. JimmiC doesn't want to answer that question. Partly because I don't think he sees a distinction; he thinks that anyone who holds those positions is a garbageperson and doesn't deserve due process, especially if they don't talk like they could carry a conversation at a New England dinner party. Partly because it's convenient to just make a big schmear of everyone you don't like, and if you don't distinguish between the manner and substance of the speech, you can condemn people no matter how carefully they word their objections. I don't care at all about John Gruden. What I do care about is what the standards and scope of condemnation are for society and institutions. And they are getting lower and lower every day for complete professional and personal annihilation. And this is happening at the behest of the NFL, which takes turns covering up for its corruption and callousness and crowing about how morally righteous they are over the great unwashed fanbase. If only they had the readership of Salon.com as their fans instead of blue collar white people. Finally, I'd like to swear off all responsibility for the derailment. I was only going to make that one throwaway comment. TL;DR: The NFL is shit and Gruden is a patsy. If so thats not a good look. Grow up. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 13 2021 05:53 Jerubaal wrote: So here's a 'scrubbed version' of some of Gruden's statements. >I object to the League pressuring teams to draft a player to make a political statement about tolerance. >Obama is feckless and Biden is clueless. >I do not think that women should referee as they do not and forseeably will not play in the NFL, and I believe that this is another PR stunt. >I believe that Goodell is more interested in the business and image of the NFL than he is of the health of the game. I don't really know how to approach the D. Smith comment, but andrewlt assured me that there was one free pass. Is it, then, your position that if the above statements had been found in the emails that this would have been a non-issue? I think the bigger offense to the powerful people, not the people piling on about slurs, is that he said a lot of things that are true. Or at least the NFL brass fears in their heart of hearts its true. They knew Michale Sam sucked, they know they are giving special treatment to female refs (and are trying with coaches), they know De Smith is a stooge. Hell, all Gruden needed to hit a perfect bingo is to talk about how BS the Rooney rule is and he'd have hit almost all the sacred cows. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
I've barely made any defense of Gruden. My first two posts were purely about how this incident was not as spontaneous as it might first appear, and he chose his targets poorly. That could mean internal politics like Goodell or vogue causes. I said nothing about Left or Right. My one defense of him was that people often speak more coarsely in private. That's why i asked you if it was his crassness or the actual positions that were the issue, which you refused to engage. Your last post, however, was a confession that it was the latter. He has the wrong opinions, so you hate him and think anything bad that happens to him is justified. And you're entitled to your opinion. It just seems odd that you're screaming about how this isn't a witch hunt when you clearly have a political animus against him. Which leads me to... + Show Spoiler + Yes gays should be allowed and drafted. Its attitudes like Grudens and yours that made Sam such a big deal not mine. Nothing in the thin quotations we have so far (that I have seen) suggest that he said anything of the sort. What he said, so we have been told, is that he objected to the pressure being put out by the league. But, like Farvacola, you seem a lot less interested in the actual facts of the situation than that he committed wrongthink. You're having your 10 Minutes Hate and you hate me that I interrupted it. I wouldn't dare to interrupt you hating the approved garbageperson unless I was also a garbageperson. You realize that a person can be guilty of something but not guilty of everything? And that the investigating body can still be corrupt and biased? https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32389529/nflpa-petition-nfl-release-all-emails-washington-football-team-investigation The NFLPA is right in this case. I don't think it will lead to anything but more sacrificial lambs. you think people not being held accountable, not admiting mistakes, not learning is soemthing to be proud of. None of this is happening. A bunch of corrupt people are pointing at someone and telling you to hate them and then you nod along and say, yes, I hate this person, I want them to fuck off and die and have nothing but failure until the day they die. You seem really invested in your hate. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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UsedEgg3
126 Posts
It's also not a case of PC gone overboard. When you're employed, your words and actions represent not only yourself, but your employer. If you're repeatedly calling ppl "f**gots" and "queers," your employers are going to distance themselves from you ASAP. These emails and words spanned the course of years during which time he was employed by ESPN, the NFL, and the Raiders, so I can see how all 3 want to distance themselves as much as possible. If there's anything that bothers me about these types of situations, it's how the employers always come out with the PC press release, "doesn't represent our values, this is abhorrent, etc." I'm pretty sure they would have tolerated it 100% had it not come public, and now they're covering their tracks with disingenuous apologies. I'm a pretty crude fella myself. Words don't really bother me. I still understand how the guy has to be fired given what he said. The thing that bothers me the most about him is how against player protests he was/is. Anyone who equates kneeling during the anthem to disrespecting the troops is both a jerk and a moron, imo. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On October 14 2021 01:06 JimmiC wrote: I think if would have called Goodell a homosexual he would have got fired. Even without the slur its clear he thinks it bad or derogatory to be gay. Same goes for much of his other comments and of course that he chose slurs matters. It also says something that not only did he choose to use slurs, but he chose to use so many about so many different groups. This is clearly not some slip of the tounge type of situation but rather a glimpse at the type of person he is. That's not what I mean though. In that case, while it may not be a slur per se, that is still using the word homosexual as an insult. If instead he said that Smith is untrustworthy and Goodell is terrible at his job, those aren't fireable offenses. The bigger issue is that he insulted pretty much everyone and used association with marginalized groups as an insult. The story evolved from a one-off e-mail to a pattern of behavior. Once that happened, his fate was sealed. | ||
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