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On December 27 2017 06:41 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 02:02 Rebs wrote:In the bigger picture that is a bit of a disaster, the foundation to break down teams that are sitting back and using the ball well is problematic, and giving up goals on limited chance to teams that are just chucking the ball forward will infuriate Mou. The freekick you can do nothing about, but this United team still does lack some incisiveness. With the amount of good positions they were getting in a team challenging for titles should be able to do better. It is hard though, and while having the odd game like this against a very hardworking side like Burnley is understandable two in a row over the Christmas period is a bit much. I dare say though that if you gave Mou a point at half time he might have taken it. On December 27 2017 01:55 nayumi wrote:On December 27 2017 01:52 LennX wrote:On December 27 2017 01:49 nayumi wrote:
?? whats the plan there?? crossing is fine but maybe try to have more than just Lukaku amongst 6 white shirts? There's no flair players on the pitch or anyone allowed to show flair, Fellaini is dropped due to contract issues and I doubt Herrera can magic something if he comes on. Plan A failed and we have no plan B edit: and 2-2 during Fergie time. I guess I need to eat my shoe lol im not asking for flair im fine with long ball but at least put more bodies in the box if thats the plan I think his point is that when teams are sitting in the box and its like playing against 10 man walls you need some artistry/flair to break it down. Or you can do what United were doing and hope something breaks your way. United dont ahve the players to do the former. Mou generally doesnt like those kinds of players. I guess Mata and Mikhi are supposed to be those players but they arent producing as much as they need. Im much less concerned about the two goals we conceded ...well the first one we could have been a bit more aggresive in clearing the ball but if you give away a freekick at that position sometimes it happens... Our problem is we cant find a good and systematic way to score goals. We rely on our wings which is what Mou prefers but we dont have the right players to make it work. Our right wing is pretty much all on Valencia to deliver a good cross which is predictible, we dont even have a true RW as Mata or Mkhi usually positions themselves towards the centre. On the left both Rashford and Martial arent the dribbler type, they do magical work on a counter but going up against a prepared defense isnt their strongest suit. Our biggest weapon is Pogba somehow delivering a KDB'esque pass which will then have to rely on our strikers being clinical enough. So the solution to when you have spent a lot of money but its still not working is to keep spending until it does. What a world we are living in considering Fergie won the league with fucking Oshea and Evans on the squad just a while back.
That's a fair assessment, this is also why you would struggle against stronger clubs in the CL to a degree.
As for Fergie winning the league, you have to realise that back when Fergie had O Shea and Evans smaller clubs had garbage,. Now the players of the caliber of O Shea and Evans play at a the West Broms or B&H or heck Huddersfield.
Not necessarily a bad thing until you take into account how stupidly top heavy the spending is. I still find the PL schedule to be modern day slavery + Show Spoiler +this is an obvious over exaggeration. Yes Over exaggeration. Something that is not only exaggerated, but beyond even that. Please no one harp on it and just take the spirit of it.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On December 27 2017 12:10 DucK- wrote:
Yay a win! Same problems persist, but a professional performance.
Baka is still rubbish though. Couldn't control the midfield against a weaker team. Think Chelsea really misses a Lampard kind of midfielder. Our CMs can't shoot a ball at all.
First half showed why I'm not pleased with our tactics and squad. We couldn't dominate the midfield, Morata couldn't be involved, only half chances created, all against a relatively weak team. Thank god when all else fails, there's always tactic #3: azpi cross Morata header.
For our current style, I think we badly need a drogba type of player, but he preferred Manchester. Morata doesn't feel properly utilised when he always have to chase after hopeful balls instead of playing to his feet. He is doing a decent job now, but I feel he could have more impact if we played to his strengths.
[Edit]
Is luiz really injured? We could really use a ball playing defender, even at the left side. Rudiger/Cahill hasn't really made that spot theirs...
Commentator summed up the first half "They didn't try, they upped commitment another 10-20% and they blew Brighton off the park. That is only reason we were poor in first half it was because it seemed they couldn't be bothered again which is an issue itself tbf. When Conte got stuck into them 2nd half we blew them away and played good football and created alot.
No one in the game is like Lampard anymore, we can't invent and get a midfielder that doesn't exist anymore. It is sad when the likes of goal scoring CMs of Lampard ilk do not exist anymore as their seems to be only "2" midfield positions, you are either a CAM and pass the ball and create or you are a defensive midfielder and break up the play and pass the ball on to your number 10. The Lampard and Gerrard roles cease to exist right now thus we have none of these midfielders in the game. I too say the same thing every time the ball comes outside of the box and Kante strolls up to it and you think wow if this is Lampard it is a goal.
Luiz is either injured or finished, one or the other, im hoping injured xD I don't think we had any issues in the back, we missed Christensen but i think Conte has someone lined up to come in anyway to play the second centre centre back role.
Stoke next, hopefully can grab another win to head into the Arsenal games more confident.
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On December 27 2017 17:38 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 12:10 DucK- wrote:
Yay a win! Same problems persist, but a professional performance.
Baka is still rubbish though. Couldn't control the midfield against a weaker team. Think Chelsea really misses a Lampard kind of midfielder. Our CMs can't shoot a ball at all.
First half showed why I'm not pleased with our tactics and squad. We couldn't dominate the midfield, Morata couldn't be involved, only half chances created, all against a relatively weak team. Thank god when all else fails, there's always tactic #3: azpi cross Morata header.
For our current style, I think we badly need a drogba type of player, but he preferred Manchester. Morata doesn't feel properly utilised when he always have to chase after hopeful balls instead of playing to his feet. He is doing a decent job now, but I feel he could have more impact if we played to his strengths.
[Edit]
Is luiz really injured? We could really use a ball playing defender, even at the left side. Rudiger/Cahill hasn't really made that spot theirs... Commentator summed up the first half "They didn't try, they upped commitment another 10-20% and they blew Brighton off the park. That is only reason we were poor in first half it was because it seemed they couldn't be bothered again which is an issue itself tbf. When Conte got stuck into them 2nd half we blew them away and played good football and created alot. No one in the game is like Lampard anymore, we can't invent and get a midfielder that doesn't exist anymore. It is sad when the likes of goal scoring CMs of Lampard ilk do not exist anymore as their seems to be only "2" midfield positions, you are either a CAM and pass the ball and create or you are a defensive midfielder and break up the play and pass the ball on to your number 10. The Lampard and Gerrard roles cease to exist right now thus we have none of these midfielders in the game. I too say the same thing every time the ball comes outside of the box and Kante strolls up to it and you think wow if this is Lampard it is a goal. Luiz is either injured or finished, one or the other, im hoping injured xD I don't think we had any issues in the back, we missed Christensen but i think Conte has someone lined up to come in anyway to play the second centre centre back role. Stoke next, hopefully can grab another win to head into the Arsenal games more confident.
I'd like to think that we were sloppy and complacent, but it's gonna take many more games to convince me that theres nothing wrong with our approach. Even though we were comfortably in control in the 2nd half, we still struggled to create more than half chances aside from hazard off the line.
As for the defenders, I think defensively there are no issues. The issue is us being so defensive with 3 defenders always. Add kante and useless baka and we always have 5 defensive-ish players in the squad. Azpi has been doing a decent job as a pseudo right back delivering crosses so it ain't so bad. The other 2 CBs contribute nothing. That's why I like someone like luiz around. If he loss his place to Christensen, the left side is still available...
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Think left side will be Rudiger's by the end of the season, his passing was pretty good yesterday, did some great switch plays to Moses and nearly played Cesc in with a peach over the top. I know what your getting at a bit, but we failed the manager in the transfer market in his options for what he wanted so doing what he is doing so far is fine by me. January going to be very big for us, 3-4 players in minimum i think. Striker, CM, CB, Wingback. Hoping we can snag Sandro up that would be awesome, even though Alonso is by far the best left sided defending in the league at the moment.
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I'm hoping for a real RWB and a good box to box. Moses hasn't let us down so far, but he has been just a 7 every game. Need a more energetic midfielder to partner Kante. Kinda jelly that Liverpool's getting Keita. If only our french guy is as good. Probably need a backup striker too. As for LWB, not so urgent to dump Alonso yet.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Bakayoko will become a great just needs time, he is only young and he has improved so much already. He has got up to the physicality of the league very quickly and he shows glimpses every game of battling to get the ball back, winning it and playing the pass off fine. He just needs to fix his shooting, his touches and passing is great.
Keita is awful this season, the £50million scouse spent on him to replace Can will probably be like for like. Think Barkley will come in finally in January so hopefully he can be turned into something brilliant, can be that scoring midfielder we need maybe? If not like i was saying to others before, why don't we just go into the Italian market and pick ourselves up a couple more Zappacosta's for £20 million to fill out the squad! He isn't the best right now Zappa but for his price and what he could still become is great value.
Southampton want £70million for Van Dijk now as well which i do hope Conte doesn't want him anymore because that is a proper waste!
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Liverpool just confirmed Van Dijk for £75million!!!!!!! HOLY SHIT world has gone mad!
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Well with that transfer Klopp definitely put extremely high pressure on himself.
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Corruption. We Americans excel in it even in the sport we suck at. 
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On December 28 2017 04:28 sharkie wrote:
Well with that transfer Klopp definitely put extremely high pressure on himself.
It was somewhat doomed if you do, doomed if you don't - sort of a move. He needed to improve the defensive side to compete anywhere higher. I'm not sure who were the other ones he could consider.
I think at least Can is going to go now to balance out the finances. I do hope Coutinho stays at least for the remaining season. With solid defence Liverpool could actually rank quite high among UCL contenders.
Any idea how winter transfers are available on FA Cup?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
You are free to play in any domestic competition as long as you have not played in it that season. No premier league side involved in the FA cup yet so Van Dijk is clear to play.
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On December 28 2017 06:16 Bacillus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2017 04:28 sharkie wrote:
Well with that transfer Klopp definitely put extremely high pressure on himself. It was somewhat doomed if you do, doomed if you don't - sort of a move. He needed to improve the defensive side to compete anywhere higher. I'm not sure who were the other ones he could consider. I think at least Can is going to go now to balance out the finances. I do hope Coutinho stays at least for the remaining season. With solid defence Liverpool could actually rank quite high among UCL contenders. Any idea how winter transfers are available on FA Cup?
They still need a better GK and a world class striker to be able to compete. Other than Coutinho and Salah, everyone else is pretty much hit/miss.
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On December 28 2017 09:32 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2017 06:16 Bacillus wrote:On December 28 2017 04:28 sharkie wrote:
Well with that transfer Klopp definitely put extremely high pressure on himself. It was somewhat doomed if you do, doomed if you don't - sort of a move. He needed to improve the defensive side to compete anywhere higher. I'm not sure who were the other ones he could consider. I think at least Can is going to go now to balance out the finances. I do hope Coutinho stays at least for the remaining season. With solid defence Liverpool could actually rank quite high among UCL contenders. Any idea how winter transfers are available on FA Cup? They still need a better GK and a world class striker to be able to compete. Other than Coutinho and Salah, everyone else is pretty much hit/miss.
I think GK and ST are positions that are not urgent for upgrade yet. A good DM to partner Keita and they're good for next season.
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On December 27 2017 04:04 Pandemona wrote:
It easy for Mourinho to play that card, they have more money than city they just didn't spend it i swear. They spent £200 million ish themselves. Just spent it very poorly. They need 2 centre backs and a right back before they can compete imo. Also need to find a cm partnership.
I think we're fine in the defense and midfield. Jones and Smalling are doing a good job with Baily injured and Lindelof and Rojo can backup when needed. Valencia has been awesome at right back but yeah we probably need to start looking at a back up.
Midfield we have Pogba and Matic and they have been great at the start until Pogba started missing many games due to injury and suspension.
What we needed is a world class left and right winger to compete with City. Can't rely too much on Martial and Rashford who are still too young to carry the attack.
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On December 28 2017 11:46 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2017 04:04 Pandemona wrote:
It easy for Mourinho to play that card, they have more money than city they just didn't spend it i swear. They spent £200 million ish themselves. Just spent it very poorly. They need 2 centre backs and a right back before they can compete imo. Also need to find a cm partnership. I think we're fine in the defense and midfield. Jones and Smalling are doing a good job with Baily injured and Lindelof and Rojo can backup when needed. Valencia has been awesome at right back but yeah we probably need to start looking at a back up. Midfield we have Pogba and Matic and they have been great at the start until Pogba started missing many games due to injury and suspension. What we needed is a world class left and right winger to compete with City. Can't rely too much on Martial and Rashford who are still too young to carry the attack.
I think your main Problem is that Pogba is not being allowed to drive games. Matic is good enough on his own to cover the defense, Heck even Paulinho at Barca is more box to box than Pogba is and all he does is win balls and then make runs for tapins/rebounds.
If you are going to play so heavy with your wingers fizzing stuff in, You cant have Paul Pogba all 100 whatever million pounds of him lurking at the edge of the 20 waiting for rebounds to wonder goal in or restart the play (normally back out to the wingers).
Spreading the play is fine, its important and necessary. But there has to be a point to it beyond Ashley Young bobbing, weaving and dropping shoulders to just fizz crosses in to your standard oversized PL defender. Its not a totally ineffective tactic and to their credit guys like Young and Valencia (iirc Rooney literally scored 30 goals this way one season) are very good at what they do. But then its the sort of formula you can kinda apply with really anyone where Pogba is. You dont need Paul Pogba to do it, heck even Gareth Barry can do that much.
Personally I think the wingers are good enough. The problem is how you use the pitch when you spread it. And thats something Mou teams are notoriously bad at doing outside of just powering their way in.
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On December 28 2017 11:53 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2017 11:46 Dante08 wrote:On December 27 2017 04:04 Pandemona wrote:
It easy for Mourinho to play that card, they have more money than city they just didn't spend it i swear. They spent £200 million ish themselves. Just spent it very poorly. They need 2 centre backs and a right back before they can compete imo. Also need to find a cm partnership. I think we're fine in the defense and midfield. Jones and Smalling are doing a good job with Baily injured and Lindelof and Rojo can backup when needed. Valencia has been awesome at right back but yeah we probably need to start looking at a back up. Midfield we have Pogba and Matic and they have been great at the start until Pogba started missing many games due to injury and suspension. What we needed is a world class left and right winger to compete with City. Can't rely too much on Martial and Rashford who are still too young to carry the attack. I think your main Problem is that Pogba is not being allowed to drive games. Matic is good enough on his own to cover the defense, Heck even Paulinho at Barca is more box to box than Pogba is and all he does is win balls and then make runs for tapins/rebounds. If you are going to play so heavy with your wingers fizzing stuff in, You cant have Paul Pogba all 100 whatever million pounds of him lurking at the edge of the 20 waiting for rebounds to wonder goal in or restart the play (normally back out to the wingers). Spreading the play is fine, its important and necessary. But there has to be a point to it beyond Ashley Young bobbing, weaving and dropping shoulders to just fizz crosses in to your standard oversized PL defender. Its not a totally ineffective tactic and to their credit guys like Young and Valencia (iirc Rooney literally scored 30 goals this way one season) are very good at what they do. But then its the sort of formula you can kinda apply with really anyone where Pogba is. You dont need Paul Pogba to do it, heck even Gareth Barry can do that much. Personally I think the wingers are good enough. The problem is how you use the pitch when you spread it. And thats something Mou teams are notoriously bad at doing outside of just powering their way in.
Yeah Pogba needs to be given the license to roam forward more and let Matic do the defending. Wingers maybe on the left Martial and Rashford can take turns but on the right wing we are really weak. Mou plays Mata there but he's not a winger and is always looking to cut in, leaving Young/Valencia alone vs 2 guys. He tried playing Rashford and Martial as well but they're just not used to that position.
We need a fast winger who can team up with the right backs so we're not just a threat going down the left.
Oh well hopefully this is just a short spell that we can sort out soon.
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On December 28 2017 09:32 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2017 06:16 Bacillus wrote:On December 28 2017 04:28 sharkie wrote:
Well with that transfer Klopp definitely put extremely high pressure on himself. It was somewhat doomed if you do, doomed if you don't - sort of a move. He needed to improve the defensive side to compete anywhere higher. I'm not sure who were the other ones he could consider. I think at least Can is going to go now to balance out the finances. I do hope Coutinho stays at least for the remaining season. With solid defence Liverpool could actually rank quite high among UCL contenders. Any idea how winter transfers are available on FA Cup? They still need a better GK and a world class striker to be able to compete. Other than Coutinho and Salah, everyone else is pretty much hit/miss.
You can have a high working striker that can link with the other guys in front if you have the goalscoring elsewhere. I think they need some fullbacks.
But any Klopp team will always lose out some points against weaker teams, while Pep's style is build to beat on weaker teams. Man City prob dominate the next +- 3 years.
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On December 28 2017 09:32 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2017 06:16 Bacillus wrote:On December 28 2017 04:28 sharkie wrote:
Well with that transfer Klopp definitely put extremely high pressure on himself. It was somewhat doomed if you do, doomed if you don't - sort of a move. He needed to improve the defensive side to compete anywhere higher. I'm not sure who were the other ones he could consider. I think at least Can is going to go now to balance out the finances. I do hope Coutinho stays at least for the remaining season. With solid defence Liverpool could actually rank quite high among UCL contenders. Any idea how winter transfers are available on FA Cup? They still need a better GK and a world class striker to be able to compete. Other than Coutinho and Salah, everyone else is pretty much hit/miss.
I think the whole attacking lineup is quite well set up for now. Firmino's priority isn't being the 20+ goal guy. In general, I think Pool already has the most well rounded attack alongside City. Having Van Dijk around as a set piece target doesn't probably hurt either.
Mignolet and Karius definitely aren't the best GK lineup available, but I'm not sure how urgently they actually need an upgrade. Mignolet has had some decent stints too and a better center back might help him stabilize back to top form. I'll definitely welcome an upgrade any day, but at the same time I'm curious to see how much things improve with just the stronger CB around.
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On December 28 2017 04:28 sharkie wrote:
Well with that transfer Klopp definitely put extremely high pressure on himself.
No not really because he is also "financial manager". He always cares that net spend is about 0m€.
His time at Mainz and Dortmund, he gained more money than burn them. Mou and Pep are the opposite.
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EPT
