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2016 NFL and CFB Season Discussion - Page 11

Forum Index > Sports
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Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
March 24 2016 17:02 GMT
#201
good luck
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
March 24 2016 17:02 GMT
#202
I guess I can't be surprised the nfl ignored science to railroad the patriots when they ignore science to pretend they aren't ruining their players lives.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32132 Posts
March 24 2016 17:31 GMT
#203
On March 24 2016 23:39 andrewlt wrote:
It could incentivize teams to have their kickers kick it short of the endzone if they think they can stop the other team before the 25. The committee is aware of this so this change is experimental.

yup this is almost certainly what will happen on teams with reliable kickers and good coverage teams
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
March 24 2016 22:06 GMT
#204
On March 25 2016 02:31 QuanticHawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2016 23:39 andrewlt wrote:
It could incentivize teams to have their kickers kick it short of the endzone if they think they can stop the other team before the 25. The committee is aware of this so this change is experimental.

yup this is almost certainly what will happen on teams with reliable kickers and good coverage teams

In that sense, I think the rule might add a nice differentiation as to kicking strategy, but we'll have to see.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 24 2016 22:51 GMT
#205
--- Nuked ---
giftdgecko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2126 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 23:06:05
March 24 2016 23:02 GMT
#206
On March 25 2016 07:06 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 02:31 QuanticHawk wrote:
On March 24 2016 23:39 andrewlt wrote:
It could incentivize teams to have their kickers kick it short of the endzone if they think they can stop the other team before the 25. The committee is aware of this so this change is experimental.

yup this is almost certainly what will happen on teams with reliable kickers and good coverage teams

In that sense, I think the rule might add a nice differentiation as to kicking strategy, but we'll have to see.

I agree the kicking strategy will be interesting, but the whole reason for moving the kickers up was to reduce the amount the ball comes out of the endzone because of the dangers posed by kick returns. It has worked too; over 56% of kickoffs were touchbacks this last year. Special teams coaches and kickers have already said they are going to try to hit it high and at the goal line if they can. Maybe they won't be able to control it enough to make it worth it, but I think they'll figure it out. If the NFL actually wants to do something either get rid of kickoffs or move the ball up again, this is just silly.

Afaik, there were 7 kickoffs returned for touchdowns last year and the average starting position was the 23 for kicks returned. I think a lot of teams will still look at that and say it's worth the risk of losing 2 yards to bring it out if they have even a decent return man.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
March 25 2016 02:27 GMT
#207
On March 25 2016 07:06 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 02:31 QuanticHawk wrote:
On March 24 2016 23:39 andrewlt wrote:
It could incentivize teams to have their kickers kick it short of the endzone if they think they can stop the other team before the 25. The committee is aware of this so this change is experimental.

yup this is almost certainly what will happen on teams with reliable kickers and good coverage teams

In that sense, I think the rule might add a nice differentiation as to kicking strategy, but we'll have to see.


Yah, it might make kickoffs more interesting but at the expense of player safety, which is the NFL's purported reason for making the change.
giftdgecko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2126 Posts
March 25 2016 20:11 GMT
#208
"N.F.L.’s Flawed Concussion Research and Ties to Tobacco Industry" - NYT
+ Show Spoiler +
The National Football League was on the clock.

With several of its marquee players retiring early after a cascade of frightening concussions, the league formed a committee in 1994 that would ultimately issue a succession of research papers playing down the danger of head injuries. Amid criticism of the committee’s work, physicians brought in later to continue the research said the papers had relied on faulty analysis.

Now, an investigation by The New York Times has found that the N.F.L.’s concussion research was far more flawed than previously known.

For the last 13 years, the N.F.L. has stood by the research, which, the papers stated, was based on a full accounting of all concussions diagnosed by team physicians from 1996 through 2001. But confidential data obtained by The Times shows that more than 100 diagnosed concussions were omitted from the studies — including some severe injuries to stars like quarterbacks Steve Young and Troy Aikman. The committee then calculated the rates of concussions using the incomplete data, making them appear less frequent than they actually were.

After The Times asked the league about the missing diagnosed cases — more than 10 percent of the total — officials acknowledged that “the clubs were not required to submit their data and not every club did.” That should have been made clearer, the league said in a statement, adding that the missing cases were not part of an attempt “to alter or suppress the rate of concussions.”

One member of the concussion committee, Dr. Joseph Waeckerle, said he was unaware of the omissions. But he added: “If somebody made a human error or somebody assumed the data was absolutely correct and didn’t question it, well, we screwed up. If we found it wasn’t accurate and still used it, that’s not a screw-up; that’s a lie.”

These discoveries raise new questions about the validity of the committee’s findings, published in 13 peer-reviewed articles and held up by the league as scientific evidence that brain injuries did not cause long-term harm to its players. It is also unclear why the omissions went unchallenged by league officials, by the epidemiologist whose job it was to ensure accurate data collection and by the editor of the medical journal that published the studies.

In 2013, the N.F.L. agreed to a $765 million settlement of a lawsuit in which retired players accused league officials of covering up the risks of concussions. Some players have appealed the settlement, asking for an examination of the committee’s concussion research...


NFL's Response
+ Show Spoiler +
Today's New York Times story on the National Football League is contradicted by clear facts that refute both the thesis of the story and each of its allegations. As the Times itself states: "The Times has found no direct evidence that the league took its strategy from Big Tobacco." Despite that concession, the Times published pages of innuendo and speculation for a headline with no basis in fact.

The studies that are the focus of the Times' story used data collected between 1996-2001. They were necessarily preliminary and acknowledged that much more research was needed. Since that time, the NFL has been on the forefront of promoting and funding independent research on these complex issues. Further, the data from the Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) Committee studies have not been used in any way by the current Head, Neck and Spine Committee in its research on player health and safety. All of the current policies relating to player medical care and the treatment of concussions have been carefully developed in conjunction with independent experts on our medical committees, the NFLPA, and leading bodies such as the CDC...


NYT responds to NFL's Statements
+ Show Spoiler +
Hours after The New York Times published an article on Thursday that examined deep flaws in the N.F.L.’s early concussion research and the league’s ties to the tobacco industry, the league responded with a statement disputing various aspects of the article.

The statement said the article was “contradicted by clear facts” and that The Times “published pages of innuendo and speculation.”

Data obtained by The Times revealed that more than 100 diagnosed concussions were not included in the studies that formed the backbone of the league’s early stance on the issue. The research was held up by the league as evidence that brain injuries did not cause long-term problems for players.

■ The N.F.L. statement said, “The Times claims that the concussion studies funded in part by N.F.L. Charities purposely relied on faulty and incomplete concussion data.” Our article did not claim that.

■ The N.F.L. statement said, “The studies never claimed to be based on every concussion that was reported or that occurred.” The studies and peer-review statements did, in fact, claim that.

■ The N.F.L. statement said, “The story claims that the League relied on legal advice from Lorillard and the Tobacco Institute.” Our article did not claim that.

■ The N.F.L. statement said, “In fact, the league has never participated – either through its counsel of over 50 years, Covington & Burling, or otherwise – in any joint lobbying efforts with the Tobacco Institute.” Our article did not claim that.

■ The N.F.L. statement said, “Moreover, the fact that not all concussions were reported is consistent with the fact that reporting was strongly encouraged by the league but not mandated, as documents provided to The Times showed.” At least one of the papers said it was, in fact, mandated.

■ The N.F.L. statement said, “The Times insinuates that the N.F.L. hired Dorothy Mitchell, an associate at the law firm Covington & Burling, because of her experience in tobacco litigation.” Our article did not say how or why she was hired.


I smell congress a comin'
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
March 25 2016 20:39 GMT
#209
Lol, whichever NFL lawyer/official signed off on that response needs to be fired immediately
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
March 25 2016 20:47 GMT
#210
The NFL is the best. They always think they have the moral high ground, act like they have the moral high ground, then everyone is like, "Why are you acting like this?"

Its like how they ban ads for certain products like guns and strip clubs.
Freeeeeeedom
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
March 25 2016 21:31 GMT
#211
Goodel getting a sports health and saftey award is the worst award nomination since hitler was nominated for the world peace prize.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
giftdgecko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2126 Posts
March 29 2016 22:28 GMT
#212
The NFL is now posturing against the NYT

+ Show Spoiler +
The National Football League is demanding The New York Times retract an article published last week about the league's research into concussions among pro football players.

In a letter that was sent to the Times' legal counsel Monday and obtained by POLITICO, an attorney for the NFL, Brad S. Karp, called the story "false and defamatory" and issued a "demand that the story immediately be retracted."

In a line that seemed to threaten the possibility of further legal action, he wrote: "We also request that the Times's reporters and editors who worked on this story preserve their notes, correspondence, emails, recordings and work papers and all other electronic and hard copy documents generated or received in connection with their work."


For the love of god do it NFL, let's open those books up and let it all out...

Colts’ Irsay: We want a safe game, but not a pillow fight
+ Show Spoiler +

Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay spoke for about 20 minutes to SportsBusiness Journal at the NFL owners’ annual meeting about player health and safety issues, and his remarks were strong. His bottom line: Players know there is risk in playing the game, not enough research exists to attack the NFL over brain injuries, and the league is doing everything it can to make the game safer.

Irsay mentioned bobsledding on several occasions as an example of another sport, like football, that involves a degree of danger.

Here are excerpts from the conversation.

■ “Look at it: When you get into Olympic bobsledding — I could sit down and name a dozen different sports — it has always been a known factor that you know you are going in there and you are taking a risk.”

■ “Obviously we are not going to go to a situation where we put players in almost balloon-like equipment, where it becomes a pillow fight, so to speak. We are trying to look at everything about the safety of the game without changing the game.”

■ “I believe this: that the game has always been a risk, you know, and the way certain people are. Look at it. You take an aspirin, I take an aspirin, it might give you extreme side effects of illness and your body … may reject it, where I would be fine. So there is so much we don’t know.”

■ “It is a tough sport. It is a contact sport. Again, whether it is bobsledding, rugby, what have you now: Any of those sports it takes a commitment [that] ‘I am all in here.’”

■ “One thing I have always felt strongly about, that [is] to say, ‘Oh, someone knew something and they didn’t tell way back in the ’60s or ’70s,’ that’s just not true. I was there. I know that’s a lie. You know no one knew anything. The only thing we know and always knew is when you strap on that helmet and go out on the field, boy you know you are taking a risk, but the reward is something. It’s worth it.”

■ “To try to tie football, like I said, to suicides or murders or what have you, I believe that is just so absurd as well and it is harmful to other diseases, harmful to things like … when you get into the use of steroids, when you get into substance abuse, you get into the illness of alcohol and addiction. It’s a shame that gets missed, because there [are] very deadly diseases there, for instance, like alcoholism and addiction. That gets pushed to the side and [a person] says, ‘Oh, no. Football.’ To me, that’s really absurd.”(Note: Irsay has publicly battled painkiller addiction.)

■ “Football is so popular, people know they can sell their story in a newspaper form or a rating on TV, so they use football because what they are more about is the business of, you know, selling newspapers or seeing commercial time on TV. I see it for what it is, man. I stand there and look at it as a grandfather and someone who has been around for 50 years and sure, part of it is frustrating, but everyone has their own self-motivating motive, and that just happens.”


Yes Jim, you take an "aspirin", I take an "aspirin"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 29 2016 22:55 GMT
#213
--- Nuked ---
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
March 29 2016 23:00 GMT
#214
I mean Irsay is a expert on taking pills.

I love how the nfl is suddenly against biased journalism and circumstantial not that strong evidence.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
giftdgecko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States2126 Posts
March 29 2016 23:39 GMT
#215
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 30 2016 07:55 JimmiC wrote:
I think he has some points and our society is way to politically correct. There are far more dangerous jobs in the world such as police, military, crab fishing, so on and so forth. The only reason we are so concerned with football players is they are famous and millionaires. that being said if football didn't exist we wouldn't care and many of these people would be bouncers, military so on. Sure there is more research now but it's not like looking at ali and other boxers people didn't know that getting hit in the head was not good for you. Not to mention to take football to the level of pros you have to be pretty into violence.

I feel bad for the old time players that are all damaged and didn't make the kind of money todays players do. But I'm not going to shed tears for millionaires with a risky job that do not make good financial choices and can't afford proper health care in the future.

For those that want to retire because of the risk all the power to them as well. We live in a free society, no one is making these guys play football. This is not the old gladiator arena's or something. And the violence is a big reason we watch. UFC growing fast. People all on there feet at a hockey fight or big hit.

They make the big bucks let them take the risks. If they don't want to fine. Lets make sure that kids who choose to play are safe, and parents can hopefully help them make good decisions but the pro's.... come on man.


If this was about now, then I can relate to your point. But this is still about the NFL lying, misleading and covering up what they knew and now know about the effects of the game. Players today are informed of the risks by the NFLPA and you see these early retirements.

People like Junior Seau, Jovan Belcher etc... may have not played as long as they did if they knew what would come from it. Peyton Manning knew the risks with his neck coming back, if he got injured nobody would be bringing a lawsuit. But this backlash is warranted and the owners constantly putting their loafers in their mouth with these statements of denial is hilarious to watch. Irsay also talks about how steroids are so much worse, which the NFL (like most other sports) avoided dealing with for a long period of time.

Other sports; hockey, soccer, basketball, also have concussion issues but they aren't the most popular sport in the US and haven't made nearly as many boneheaded decisions when dealing with it nor had such visible examples of what can happen.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14105 Posts
April 01 2016 14:21 GMT
#216
I bet JD feels like a pile of shit after JJ wat came out with him playing a NFL defensive player of the year performance with a n herniated disk. Thats no joke pain right there. That guy NEEDS to play this year or hes never going to get a decent contract.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 01 2016 16:07 GMT
#217
--- Nuked ---
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
April 01 2016 16:08 GMT
#218
Jaedong, obviously.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 01 2016 16:09 GMT
#219
--- Nuked ---
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 01 2016 16:15 GMT
#220
I thought it was the guy from Scrubs
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
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