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man Tottenham has done so much for England lately ... i see Kane is already the number 1 striker uncontested ... and now we have Dier and Dele Ali who are full of great potentials ... it'd be great justice to see Tottenham winning the EPL this year even though I'm really rooting for Leicester this season
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On March 27 2016 08:13 BlackCompany wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 07:56 Micro_Jackson wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2016 06:24 smr wrote:Rumors about Götze to Dortmund not slowing down these days. Maybe we could say that they became even more serious as Freddie Röckenhaus, SZ-Journalist who's really close to Watzke and the rest of the BVB management, started talking about that option and he like never said anything about the club which wasn't atleast discussed as a viable option for the club. I'd like to talk about my thoughts but I'm afraid it'll lack enough structure. Please bear with me. What is necessary for it to happen?+ Show Spoiler +Bayern would need to agree on that transfer. They normally do not strengthen national competitors but I can still see it happen if Götze says he'll only go to Dortmund. He costs around 12m€/year and if Dortmund say "we'll not make him our record transfer - 20m€ and we're fine" that still free up 32m€ for Bayern. 32m€ for somebody who barely played the last year and who's chances decrease every day because Ribery, Robben, Costa, Coman, Müller are all preferred as wingers. Dortmunds bench is pretty weak and behind Mkhitaryan the whole offensive midfield is too inconsistent. It's hard to be worse than Kagawa right now. Castro is hit or miss. Mkhitaryan might want to leave. Pulisic will take another year. Something needs to happen. Lots of our players know Götze, he's used to the city, he could be pretty cheap for a player of his potential.
1. The transfer would require a huge marketing stunt. A facebook/Instagram post by Götze wouldn't be enough. He would need to step in front of cameras/the crowd and say sorry no matter if he means it or not. If you look at it his story wasn't so different from Sahins but he went to our biggest competitor which is why lots of fans are angry.
2. Götze changed as a player. He might be fantastic but he isn't the same guy he was when he left. Is our management able to rate him and his skills correctly or do they just remember the 2013 version? (Dumb argument because they are professionals but when you bought 2 players who left you a few years ago it has to be made.) It's all about Tuchel here. Immobile was the perfect player for Klopps 2012 BVB but in 2015 he was a total failure. The question is not how good Götze possibly is/was but: Does he fit the system Tuchel wants to play in Dortmund next year?
3. I often read that Götze is a lot more sensitive than you would think just looking at his social media. And he needs a positive and trusting environment. He could very well break under the pressure the stadium is definitely going to create atleast the first 3-5 games.
4. Even if Götze would accept a 30% reduction of his München-base salary he'll still be a financial risk. 1. I read quite a few times that Ancelotti doesn't want him.
2. There aren't too many clubs who can offer what he most likely wants -> CL (maybe EL) / money / regular playing time.
France: PSG won't be interested after his performances those last 2 years.
Spain: Barca + Real won't be interested. That leaves Atletico. I'm not sure he'll fit there.
Italy: Only option is Juve and Götze years ago said that he doesn't want to go to Serie A iirc.
England: Leicester - nope.
West Ham - nope.
Spurs - I doubt it.
City=pep - no,
United - I doubt Mourinho wants a Götze who hasn't done anything remarkable for years.
Liverpool - very good option should they reach EL. He knows Klopp, the language barrier should be a lot lower than in spain and there are other players who speak German.
Arsenal - Absolutely viable option imo. Coach speaks German etc. They just can't win a trophy.
Chelsea - they'll want to compete for the title again and buying a player who has close to no confidence doesn't help with that. And he's worse than Hazard.
Germany: Dortmund as a club works, but the fans might be a problem.
Wolfsburg - nope. Worse city than Dortmund and with the recent VW problems they might not be able to afford him.
RB Leipzig - not as long as he is the only big player. 1. I love Sahin, Kagawa is great and I like that we're giving second chances to parts of our family. That said I'd love if we gave chances to another player. Doesn't have to be a 2m€ Weigl, could also be a 13m€ Aubameyang. Somebody who'll think: Damn those guys want me? That's one hell of a chance and I'll totally win their hearts. 2. BUT Götze is only 23 and if he signed a 5 year treaty without a buyout clause he could be a huge step forward. If we look at a price of 20-25m€ and compare his achievements to those of Depay who was more expensive you realize that it is not the worst business. And another BUT: I don't think he is so strong that you cannot find anybody close to his skills. He gained a lot of muscle, which overall might have strengthened him but decreased some of his most important traits from years ago - agility for example. At least that is my impression. I'd rather gamble with an 18 and a 20yr old who fight to start their career and end up 15 points behind Bayern than taking Götze back and end up 5 points behind them. 3. Andreas Möller did about the same thing Götze did and when he came back he was one of the big reasons we won the CL. This is nothing new for a BVB fan. It's the most recent thing and as the club build up his "love" strategy it most likey was the most emotional transfer-case of recent club history but it has happened before. In the end it's all about the club. Look at our 06/07 roster. God we had so many awful players but I always cheered for them. It's my club and whoever tries his best will have my support. 4. I dislike Götze as a person. His championship video from last year and a bunch of other things could just be a social media show but I don't know. I prefer a Mkhi who's calm and intelligent who has more things in life than football. Or Auba who seems to make a show out of everything but who just likes to wear weird things and who is always happy. He doesn't demonstrate happiness for anybody he's just such a positive person. I can see nothing of that in Götze (which might be a misinterpretation). TLDR:I don't want to see Götze in Dortmund again but I realize that under the right circumstances he could be a financially viable option to strengthen the squad. If management and team decide that they want him to play in our jersey I'll support him. Life's too short and too wonderful to be mad about some 20yr olds decision for 5 years. Our management has to care for the clubs success. And that means that they cannot act as passionate as fans do. If they see Götze as the best way to improve they'll try to go for him. PS: Götze sucks! PS: Götze sucks! 3 minutes after his first goal since the return 99% of Dortmund fans will cheer "wow so great to have him back". Dont get me wrong Dortmunds stadium fans are fantastic, i was amazed at what happend during the Mainz game but the reality is as long as a player performs most people dont give a crap what happend last week. See Sahin, see Kagawa, see Gündogan and his constant contract bs. Ask Manuel "koan" Neuer how many fucks people give if you perform well. On Götze i always defended him and still do, starting with the fact that he is only 23 years old which means he has around 10 years left on a high level career. But the fact is that in 3 years he didnt make it at munich. He had solid games and good games too but he was never that centerpiece. And i dont think that Guaridola is to blame for that. He could possible go the same route then Podolski. Highly skilled but "limited" in a sense that he is very good at his strenghts but dont has many of them. Goes from his comfort zone to Bayern, fails to make an impact goes back home to his home club. It goes down from there until he lands in turkey to feed his kids. Of course Dortmund is a league above Köln but it feels the same. Mirko Slomka nailed it pretty much by saying : + Show Spoiler +„Er kann mehrere Positionen spielen. Im Zentrum ist er am stärksten. Er ist ein vielfältiger Spieler." Aber: "Offensichtlich passt er nicht ganz in die Systematik. Er hat nicht das Tempo auf den Außenpositionen wie Kingsley Coman oder Franck Ribery. Es gibt im Moment auf jeder Position, auf der er spielen könnte, mindestens einen Besseren.“ He can play different positions [...] but Bayern has someone better at any position that he can play at the moment. Bottom line: Take a paycut and go to Liverpool. He knows the coach there and he can just nosedive his career if he goes to Dortmund and it doesnt work out. The difference is that neither Sahin, Kagawa or Gündogan behaved like assholes. So sure, fans were unhappy they left because we lost a great player. But there is nothing wrong with them coming back or staying in the case of Gündogan. Gündogan is the only one on that list that is stating to behave silly as well. Götze gambled, pissed off everyone and lost. That's his problem now. He should go to Liverpool as you said, can't imagine him ever being happy at Dortmund again. I, for myself, will not be happy if he comes back. About the game today, i'm not too worried. Yeah the defence in the 2nd half was shit but then again Löw tried shit players compared to what we had when we won the WC. Also with Podolski, Schürrle and Götze you can't expect to score any goals in their current form So TL:DR: decent game when we had a good team on the pitch, bad game when the 2nd tier players showed up that should normally not play or are not in any shape to play
To be fair Sahin didn't behave better. Atleast not by alot. He was asked what's going to happen and stood in front of the yellow wall and said "the fans know how I'm going to decide". And nobody thought that the decision was Real at that point.
You could even say that it was worse for the club as there were discussions for months whereas with Götze it just happened. That it happened right before our CL-semis against Real was bad but not completely Götzes fault.
The difference is: Sahin was the first to leave and we still had most of this dream team together. Götze later was more of a symbol for national competetiveness and he left for the biggest competitor instead of a club far away. Contractwise Götze and Sahin are basically the same.
On March 27 2016 07:56 Micro_Jackson wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2016 06:24 smr wrote:Rumors about Götze to Dortmund not slowing down these days. Maybe we could say that they became even more serious as Freddie Röckenhaus, SZ-Journalist who's really close to Watzke and the rest of the BVB management, started talking about that option and he like never said anything about the club which wasn't atleast discussed as a viable option for the club. I'd like to talk about my thoughts but I'm afraid it'll lack enough structure. Please bear with me. What is necessary for it to happen?+ Show Spoiler +Bayern would need to agree on that transfer. They normally do not strengthen national competitors but I can still see it happen if Götze says he'll only go to Dortmund. He costs around 12m€/year and if Dortmund say "we'll not make him our record transfer - 20m€ and we're fine" that still free up 32m€ for Bayern. 32m€ for somebody who barely played the last year and who's chances decrease every day because Ribery, Robben, Costa, Coman, Müller are all preferred as wingers. Dortmunds bench is pretty weak and behind Mkhitaryan the whole offensive midfield is too inconsistent. It's hard to be worse than Kagawa right now. Castro is hit or miss. Mkhitaryan might want to leave. Pulisic will take another year. Something needs to happen. Lots of our players know Götze, he's used to the city, he could be pretty cheap for a player of his potential.
1. The transfer would require a huge marketing stunt. A facebook/Instagram post by Götze wouldn't be enough. He would need to step in front of cameras/the crowd and say sorry no matter if he means it or not. If you look at it his story wasn't so different from Sahins but he went to our biggest competitor which is why lots of fans are angry.
2. Götze changed as a player. He might be fantastic but he isn't the same guy he was when he left. Is our management able to rate him and his skills correctly or do they just remember the 2013 version? (Dumb argument because they are professionals but when you bought 2 players who left you a few years ago it has to be made.) It's all about Tuchel here. Immobile was the perfect player for Klopps 2012 BVB but in 2015 he was a total failure. The question is not how good Götze possibly is/was but: Does he fit the system Tuchel wants to play in Dortmund next year?
3. I often read that Götze is a lot more sensitive than you would think just looking at his social media. And he needs a positive and trusting environment. He could very well break under the pressure the stadium is definitely going to create atleast the first 3-5 games.
4. Even if Götze would accept a 30% reduction of his München-base salary he'll still be a financial risk. 1. I read quite a few times that Ancelotti doesn't want him.
2. There aren't too many clubs who can offer what he most likely wants -> CL (maybe EL) / money / regular playing time.
France: PSG won't be interested after his performances those last 2 years.
Spain: Barca + Real won't be interested. That leaves Atletico. I'm not sure he'll fit there.
Italy: Only option is Juve and Götze years ago said that he doesn't want to go to Serie A iirc.
England: Leicester - nope.
West Ham - nope.
Spurs - I doubt it.
City=pep - no,
United - I doubt Mourinho wants a Götze who hasn't done anything remarkable for years.
Liverpool - very good option should they reach EL. He knows Klopp, the language barrier should be a lot lower than in spain and there are other players who speak German.
Arsenal - Absolutely viable option imo. Coach speaks German etc. They just can't win a trophy.
Chelsea - they'll want to compete for the title again and buying a player who has close to no confidence doesn't help with that. And he's worse than Hazard.
Germany: Dortmund as a club works, but the fans might be a problem.
Wolfsburg - nope. Worse city than Dortmund and with the recent VW problems they might not be able to afford him.
RB Leipzig - not as long as he is the only big player. 1. I love Sahin, Kagawa is great and I like that we're giving second chances to parts of our family. That said I'd love if we gave chances to another player. Doesn't have to be a 2m€ Weigl, could also be a 13m€ Aubameyang. Somebody who'll think: Damn those guys want me? That's one hell of a chance and I'll totally win their hearts. 2. BUT Götze is only 23 and if he signed a 5 year treaty without a buyout clause he could be a huge step forward. If we look at a price of 20-25m€ and compare his achievements to those of Depay who was more expensive you realize that it is not the worst business. And another BUT: I don't think he is so strong that you cannot find anybody close to his skills. He gained a lot of muscle, which overall might have strengthened him but decreased some of his most important traits from years ago - agility for example. At least that is my impression. I'd rather gamble with an 18 and a 20yr old who fight to start their career and end up 15 points behind Bayern than taking Götze back and end up 5 points behind them. 3. Andreas Möller did about the same thing Götze did and when he came back he was one of the big reasons we won the CL. This is nothing new for a BVB fan. It's the most recent thing and as the club build up his "love" strategy it most likey was the most emotional transfer-case of recent club history but it has happened before. In the end it's all about the club. Look at our 06/07 roster. God we had so many awful players but I always cheered for them. It's my club and whoever tries his best will have my support. 4. I dislike Götze as a person. His championship video from last year and a bunch of other things could just be a social media show but I don't know. I prefer a Mkhi who's calm and intelligent who has more things in life than football. Or Auba who seems to make a show out of everything but who just likes to wear weird things and who is always happy. He doesn't demonstrate happiness for anybody he's just such a positive person. I can see nothing of that in Götze (which might be a misinterpretation). TLDR:I don't want to see Götze in Dortmund again but I realize that under the right circumstances he could be a financially viable option to strengthen the squad. If management and team decide that they want him to play in our jersey I'll support him. Life's too short and too wonderful to be mad about some 20yr olds decision for 5 years. Our management has to care for the clubs success. And that means that they cannot act as passionate as fans do. If they see Götze as the best way to improve they'll try to go for him. PS: Götze sucks! 3 minutes after his first goal since the return 99% of Dortmund fans will cheer "wow so great to have him back". Dont get me wrong Dortmunds stadium fans are fantastic, i was amazed at what happend during the Mainz game but the reality is as long as a player performs most people dont give a crap what happend last week. See Sahin, see Kagawa, see Gündogan and his constant contract bs. Ask Manuel "koan" Neuer how many fucks people give if you perform well. On Götze i always defended him and still do, starting with the fact that he is only 23 years old which means he has around 10 years left on a high level career. But the fact is that in 3 years he didnt make it at munich. He had solid games and good games too but he was never that centerpiece. And i dont think that Guaridola is to blame for that. He could possible go the same route then Podolski. Highly skilled but "limited" in a sense that he is very good at his strenghts but dont has many of them. Goes from his comfort zone to Bayern, fails to make an impact goes back home to his home club. It goes down from there until he lands in turkey to feed his kids. Of course Dortmund is a league above Köln but it feels the same. Mirko Slomka nailed it pretty much by saying : + Show Spoiler +„Er kann mehrere Positionen spielen. Im Zentrum ist er am stärksten. Er ist ein vielfältiger Spieler." Aber: "Offensichtlich passt er nicht ganz in die Systematik. Er hat nicht das Tempo auf den Außenpositionen wie Kingsley Coman oder Franck Ribery. Es gibt im Moment auf jeder Position, auf der er spielen könnte, mindestens einen Besseren.“ He can play different positions [...] but Bayern has someone better at any position that he can play at the moment. Bottom line: Take a paycut and go to Liverpool. He knows the coach there and he can just nosedive his career if he goes to Dortmund and it doesnt work out.
I'm with you on most of those points.
There are a lot of fans who do the same thing for different reasons. Just those last days I read:
a) Götze is an asshole. Will never cheer for him again. (Understandable but kinda dumb. You might not cheer for him but if you love your club you're going to cheer for the club no matter who plays.)
b) I participated in singing against Götze because it became some kind of tradition in the stadium to get pumped, to increase the atmosphere. I like/dislike Götze but it's more about supporting your own club than about hate towards a person.
c) I don't care. I might not scream his name as loud as the others, I'm not going to buy another shirts with his name but should he become our player again that's okay. He's not totally clueless.
d) Great player, get over yourself everybody. For 20m€ you have to try to get him.
and so on and so on. That is only the vocal minority in online forums. I mean come on. If you're a fan for decades you don't unfan from your club because of a small boy.
The one thing I'm not so sure about is your comparison to Podolski especially the part about some highly developed skills. Now I haven't seen Götze play more than... three or four times since he left Dortmund but my impression was that he tried to improve on his weaknesses by getting more athletic. Doing so he not only improved on his weaknesses, he weakened his strengths. Which basically means that he has no "noteworthy strengths" (compared to 99% of football players he still has them of course.) but is a good all-rounder.
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On March 27 2016 14:56 sharkie wrote:
Again, the who would have been forgiven.
The problem is the HOW it happened....
Sheesh, some people just can't seem to read...
Is the case for you i know, but not for the Dortmund fans i know irl
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The return of the prodigal son, we all know that story. We also know how it ends. If Götze dares to come back to Dortmund (and that's a big IF), all will be forgiven soon (that is in case he performs well).
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I just remember how the Bayern Fans were booing Neuer for half a season after he joined.
I doubt anyone on Bayern would give him away now. If you are performing, the fans will vorget their grudge.
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On March 27 2016 15:50 smr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 08:13 BlackCompany wrote:On March 27 2016 07:56 Micro_Jackson wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2016 06:24 smr wrote:Rumors about Götze to Dortmund not slowing down these days. Maybe we could say that they became even more serious as Freddie Röckenhaus, SZ-Journalist who's really close to Watzke and the rest of the BVB management, started talking about that option and he like never said anything about the club which wasn't atleast discussed as a viable option for the club. I'd like to talk about my thoughts but I'm afraid it'll lack enough structure. Please bear with me. What is necessary for it to happen?+ Show Spoiler +Bayern would need to agree on that transfer. They normally do not strengthen national competitors but I can still see it happen if Götze says he'll only go to Dortmund. He costs around 12m€/year and if Dortmund say "we'll not make him our record transfer - 20m€ and we're fine" that still free up 32m€ for Bayern. 32m€ for somebody who barely played the last year and who's chances decrease every day because Ribery, Robben, Costa, Coman, Müller are all preferred as wingers. Dortmunds bench is pretty weak and behind Mkhitaryan the whole offensive midfield is too inconsistent. It's hard to be worse than Kagawa right now. Castro is hit or miss. Mkhitaryan might want to leave. Pulisic will take another year. Something needs to happen. Lots of our players know Götze, he's used to the city, he could be pretty cheap for a player of his potential.
1. The transfer would require a huge marketing stunt. A facebook/Instagram post by Götze wouldn't be enough. He would need to step in front of cameras/the crowd and say sorry no matter if he means it or not. If you look at it his story wasn't so different from Sahins but he went to our biggest competitor which is why lots of fans are angry.
2. Götze changed as a player. He might be fantastic but he isn't the same guy he was when he left. Is our management able to rate him and his skills correctly or do they just remember the 2013 version? (Dumb argument because they are professionals but when you bought 2 players who left you a few years ago it has to be made.) It's all about Tuchel here. Immobile was the perfect player for Klopps 2012 BVB but in 2015 he was a total failure. The question is not how good Götze possibly is/was but: Does he fit the system Tuchel wants to play in Dortmund next year?
3. I often read that Götze is a lot more sensitive than you would think just looking at his social media. And he needs a positive and trusting environment. He could very well break under the pressure the stadium is definitely going to create atleast the first 3-5 games.
4. Even if Götze would accept a 30% reduction of his München-base salary he'll still be a financial risk. 1. I read quite a few times that Ancelotti doesn't want him.
2. There aren't too many clubs who can offer what he most likely wants -> CL (maybe EL) / money / regular playing time.
France: PSG won't be interested after his performances those last 2 years.
Spain: Barca + Real won't be interested. That leaves Atletico. I'm not sure he'll fit there.
Italy: Only option is Juve and Götze years ago said that he doesn't want to go to Serie A iirc.
England: Leicester - nope.
West Ham - nope.
Spurs - I doubt it.
City=pep - no,
United - I doubt Mourinho wants a Götze who hasn't done anything remarkable for years.
Liverpool - very good option should they reach EL. He knows Klopp, the language barrier should be a lot lower than in spain and there are other players who speak German.
Arsenal - Absolutely viable option imo. Coach speaks German etc. They just can't win a trophy.
Chelsea - they'll want to compete for the title again and buying a player who has close to no confidence doesn't help with that. And he's worse than Hazard.
Germany: Dortmund as a club works, but the fans might be a problem.
Wolfsburg - nope. Worse city than Dortmund and with the recent VW problems they might not be able to afford him.
RB Leipzig - not as long as he is the only big player. 1. I love Sahin, Kagawa is great and I like that we're giving second chances to parts of our family. That said I'd love if we gave chances to another player. Doesn't have to be a 2m€ Weigl, could also be a 13m€ Aubameyang. Somebody who'll think: Damn those guys want me? That's one hell of a chance and I'll totally win their hearts. 2. BUT Götze is only 23 and if he signed a 5 year treaty without a buyout clause he could be a huge step forward. If we look at a price of 20-25m€ and compare his achievements to those of Depay who was more expensive you realize that it is not the worst business. And another BUT: I don't think he is so strong that you cannot find anybody close to his skills. He gained a lot of muscle, which overall might have strengthened him but decreased some of his most important traits from years ago - agility for example. At least that is my impression. I'd rather gamble with an 18 and a 20yr old who fight to start their career and end up 15 points behind Bayern than taking Götze back and end up 5 points behind them. 3. Andreas Möller did about the same thing Götze did and when he came back he was one of the big reasons we won the CL. This is nothing new for a BVB fan. It's the most recent thing and as the club build up his "love" strategy it most likey was the most emotional transfer-case of recent club history but it has happened before. In the end it's all about the club. Look at our 06/07 roster. God we had so many awful players but I always cheered for them. It's my club and whoever tries his best will have my support. 4. I dislike Götze as a person. His championship video from last year and a bunch of other things could just be a social media show but I don't know. I prefer a Mkhi who's calm and intelligent who has more things in life than football. Or Auba who seems to make a show out of everything but who just likes to wear weird things and who is always happy. He doesn't demonstrate happiness for anybody he's just such a positive person. I can see nothing of that in Götze (which might be a misinterpretation). TLDR:I don't want to see Götze in Dortmund again but I realize that under the right circumstances he could be a financially viable option to strengthen the squad. If management and team decide that they want him to play in our jersey I'll support him. Life's too short and too wonderful to be mad about some 20yr olds decision for 5 years. Our management has to care for the clubs success. And that means that they cannot act as passionate as fans do. If they see Götze as the best way to improve they'll try to go for him. PS: Götze sucks! PS: Götze sucks! 3 minutes after his first goal since the return 99% of Dortmund fans will cheer "wow so great to have him back". Dont get me wrong Dortmunds stadium fans are fantastic, i was amazed at what happend during the Mainz game but the reality is as long as a player performs most people dont give a crap what happend last week. See Sahin, see Kagawa, see Gündogan and his constant contract bs. Ask Manuel "koan" Neuer how many fucks people give if you perform well. On Götze i always defended him and still do, starting with the fact that he is only 23 years old which means he has around 10 years left on a high level career. But the fact is that in 3 years he didnt make it at munich. He had solid games and good games too but he was never that centerpiece. And i dont think that Guaridola is to blame for that. He could possible go the same route then Podolski. Highly skilled but "limited" in a sense that he is very good at his strenghts but dont has many of them. Goes from his comfort zone to Bayern, fails to make an impact goes back home to his home club. It goes down from there until he lands in turkey to feed his kids. Of course Dortmund is a league above Köln but it feels the same. Mirko Slomka nailed it pretty much by saying : + Show Spoiler +„Er kann mehrere Positionen spielen. Im Zentrum ist er am stärksten. Er ist ein vielfältiger Spieler." Aber: "Offensichtlich passt er nicht ganz in die Systematik. Er hat nicht das Tempo auf den Außenpositionen wie Kingsley Coman oder Franck Ribery. Es gibt im Moment auf jeder Position, auf der er spielen könnte, mindestens einen Besseren.“ He can play different positions [...] but Bayern has someone better at any position that he can play at the moment. Bottom line: Take a paycut and go to Liverpool. He knows the coach there and he can just nosedive his career if he goes to Dortmund and it doesnt work out. The difference is that neither Sahin, Kagawa or Gündogan behaved like assholes. So sure, fans were unhappy they left because we lost a great player. But there is nothing wrong with them coming back or staying in the case of Gündogan. Gündogan is the only one on that list that is stating to behave silly as well. Götze gambled, pissed off everyone and lost. That's his problem now. He should go to Liverpool as you said, can't imagine him ever being happy at Dortmund again. I, for myself, will not be happy if he comes back. About the game today, i'm not too worried. Yeah the defence in the 2nd half was shit but then again Löw tried shit players compared to what we had when we won the WC. Also with Podolski, Schürrle and Götze you can't expect to score any goals in their current form So TL:DR: decent game when we had a good team on the pitch, bad game when the 2nd tier players showed up that should normally not play or are not in any shape to play To be fair Sahin didn't behave better. Atleast not by alot. He was asked what's going to happen and stood in front of the yellow wall and said "the fans know how I'm going to decide". And nobody thought that the decision was Real at that point. You could even say that it was worse for the club as there were discussions for months whereas with Götze it just happened. That it happened right before our CL-semis against Real was bad but not completely Götzes fault. The difference is: Sahin was the first to leave and we still had most of this dream team together. Götze later was more of a symbol for national competetiveness and he left for the biggest competitor instead of a club far away. Contractwise Götze and Sahin are basically the same. Show nested quote +On March 27 2016 07:56 Micro_Jackson wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2016 06:24 smr wrote:Rumors about Götze to Dortmund not slowing down these days. Maybe we could say that they became even more serious as Freddie Röckenhaus, SZ-Journalist who's really close to Watzke and the rest of the BVB management, started talking about that option and he like never said anything about the club which wasn't atleast discussed as a viable option for the club. I'd like to talk about my thoughts but I'm afraid it'll lack enough structure. Please bear with me. What is necessary for it to happen?+ Show Spoiler +Bayern would need to agree on that transfer. They normally do not strengthen national competitors but I can still see it happen if Götze says he'll only go to Dortmund. He costs around 12m€/year and if Dortmund say "we'll not make him our record transfer - 20m€ and we're fine" that still free up 32m€ for Bayern. 32m€ for somebody who barely played the last year and who's chances decrease every day because Ribery, Robben, Costa, Coman, Müller are all preferred as wingers. Dortmunds bench is pretty weak and behind Mkhitaryan the whole offensive midfield is too inconsistent. It's hard to be worse than Kagawa right now. Castro is hit or miss. Mkhitaryan might want to leave. Pulisic will take another year. Something needs to happen. Lots of our players know Götze, he's used to the city, he could be pretty cheap for a player of his potential.
1. The transfer would require a huge marketing stunt. A facebook/Instagram post by Götze wouldn't be enough. He would need to step in front of cameras/the crowd and say sorry no matter if he means it or not. If you look at it his story wasn't so different from Sahins but he went to our biggest competitor which is why lots of fans are angry.
2. Götze changed as a player. He might be fantastic but he isn't the same guy he was when he left. Is our management able to rate him and his skills correctly or do they just remember the 2013 version? (Dumb argument because they are professionals but when you bought 2 players who left you a few years ago it has to be made.) It's all about Tuchel here. Immobile was the perfect player for Klopps 2012 BVB but in 2015 he was a total failure. The question is not how good Götze possibly is/was but: Does he fit the system Tuchel wants to play in Dortmund next year?
3. I often read that Götze is a lot more sensitive than you would think just looking at his social media. And he needs a positive and trusting environment. He could very well break under the pressure the stadium is definitely going to create atleast the first 3-5 games.
4. Even if Götze would accept a 30% reduction of his München-base salary he'll still be a financial risk. 1. I read quite a few times that Ancelotti doesn't want him.
2. There aren't too many clubs who can offer what he most likely wants -> CL (maybe EL) / money / regular playing time.
France: PSG won't be interested after his performances those last 2 years.
Spain: Barca + Real won't be interested. That leaves Atletico. I'm not sure he'll fit there.
Italy: Only option is Juve and Götze years ago said that he doesn't want to go to Serie A iirc.
England: Leicester - nope.
West Ham - nope.
Spurs - I doubt it.
City=pep - no,
United - I doubt Mourinho wants a Götze who hasn't done anything remarkable for years.
Liverpool - very good option should they reach EL. He knows Klopp, the language barrier should be a lot lower than in spain and there are other players who speak German.
Arsenal - Absolutely viable option imo. Coach speaks German etc. They just can't win a trophy.
Chelsea - they'll want to compete for the title again and buying a player who has close to no confidence doesn't help with that. And he's worse than Hazard.
Germany: Dortmund as a club works, but the fans might be a problem.
Wolfsburg - nope. Worse city than Dortmund and with the recent VW problems they might not be able to afford him.
RB Leipzig - not as long as he is the only big player. 1. I love Sahin, Kagawa is great and I like that we're giving second chances to parts of our family. That said I'd love if we gave chances to another player. Doesn't have to be a 2m€ Weigl, could also be a 13m€ Aubameyang. Somebody who'll think: Damn those guys want me? That's one hell of a chance and I'll totally win their hearts. 2. BUT Götze is only 23 and if he signed a 5 year treaty without a buyout clause he could be a huge step forward. If we look at a price of 20-25m€ and compare his achievements to those of Depay who was more expensive you realize that it is not the worst business. And another BUT: I don't think he is so strong that you cannot find anybody close to his skills. He gained a lot of muscle, which overall might have strengthened him but decreased some of his most important traits from years ago - agility for example. At least that is my impression. I'd rather gamble with an 18 and a 20yr old who fight to start their career and end up 15 points behind Bayern than taking Götze back and end up 5 points behind them. 3. Andreas Möller did about the same thing Götze did and when he came back he was one of the big reasons we won the CL. This is nothing new for a BVB fan. It's the most recent thing and as the club build up his "love" strategy it most likey was the most emotional transfer-case of recent club history but it has happened before. In the end it's all about the club. Look at our 06/07 roster. God we had so many awful players but I always cheered for them. It's my club and whoever tries his best will have my support. 4. I dislike Götze as a person. His championship video from last year and a bunch of other things could just be a social media show but I don't know. I prefer a Mkhi who's calm and intelligent who has more things in life than football. Or Auba who seems to make a show out of everything but who just likes to wear weird things and who is always happy. He doesn't demonstrate happiness for anybody he's just such a positive person. I can see nothing of that in Götze (which might be a misinterpretation). TLDR:I don't want to see Götze in Dortmund again but I realize that under the right circumstances he could be a financially viable option to strengthen the squad. If management and team decide that they want him to play in our jersey I'll support him. Life's too short and too wonderful to be mad about some 20yr olds decision for 5 years. Our management has to care for the clubs success. And that means that they cannot act as passionate as fans do. If they see Götze as the best way to improve they'll try to go for him. PS: Götze sucks! PS: Götze sucks! 3 minutes after his first goal since the return 99% of Dortmund fans will cheer "wow so great to have him back". Dont get me wrong Dortmunds stadium fans are fantastic, i was amazed at what happend during the Mainz game but the reality is as long as a player performs most people dont give a crap what happend last week. See Sahin, see Kagawa, see Gündogan and his constant contract bs. Ask Manuel "koan" Neuer how many fucks people give if you perform well. On Götze i always defended him and still do, starting with the fact that he is only 23 years old which means he has around 10 years left on a high level career. But the fact is that in 3 years he didnt make it at munich. He had solid games and good games too but he was never that centerpiece. And i dont think that Guaridola is to blame for that. He could possible go the same route then Podolski. Highly skilled but "limited" in a sense that he is very good at his strenghts but dont has many of them. Goes from his comfort zone to Bayern, fails to make an impact goes back home to his home club. It goes down from there until he lands in turkey to feed his kids. Of course Dortmund is a league above Köln but it feels the same. Mirko Slomka nailed it pretty much by saying : + Show Spoiler +„Er kann mehrere Positionen spielen. Im Zentrum ist er am stärksten. Er ist ein vielfältiger Spieler." Aber: "Offensichtlich passt er nicht ganz in die Systematik. Er hat nicht das Tempo auf den Außenpositionen wie Kingsley Coman oder Franck Ribery. Es gibt im Moment auf jeder Position, auf der er spielen könnte, mindestens einen Besseren.“ He can play different positions [...] but Bayern has someone better at any position that he can play at the moment. Bottom line: Take a paycut and go to Liverpool. He knows the coach there and he can just nosedive his career if he goes to Dortmund and it doesnt work out. I'm with you on most of those points. There are a lot of fans who do the same thing for different reasons. Just those last days I read: a) Götze is an asshole. Will never cheer for him again. (Understandable but kinda dumb. You might not cheer for him but if you love your club you're going to cheer for the club no matter who plays.) b) I participated in singing against Götze because it became some kind of tradition in the stadium to get pumped, to increase the atmosphere. I like/dislike Götze but it's more about supporting your own club than about hate towards a person. c) I don't care. I might not scream his name as loud as the others, I'm not going to buy another shirts with his name but should he become our player again that's okay. He's not totally clueless. d) Great player, get over yourself everybody. For 20m€ you have to try to get him. and so on and so on. That is only the vocal minority in online forums. I mean come on. If you're a fan for decades you don't unfan from your club because of a small boy. The one thing I'm not so sure about is your comparison to Podolski especially the part about some highly developed skills. Now I haven't seen Götze play more than... three or four times since he left Dortmund but my impression was that he tried to improve on his weaknesses by getting more athletic. Doing so he not only improved on his weaknesses, he weakened his strengths. Which basically means that he has no "noteworthy strengths" (compared to 99% of football players he still has them of course.) but is a good all-rounder.
I dont quite get the hate for Götze. Yes he went from "i love this club so much" and "kissing the emblem" to "alright see you guys i go to bayern". But a lot of these statements were made when he was 18 or 19 years old. Yea he maybe isnt the brightest light or has bad outside pr guidance but come on sometimes BVB fans talk about him like he shot the mascot and boned Klopps wife or something like that.
Götze has more talent then Podolski for sure, i brought it up because of the same "to bayern and back again" story. Seems like he isnt there mentaly (yet) for a top 4 club.
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there is a huge difference being a fan or a player. A fan has always more passion and loyalty to a club.
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On March 27 2016 19:12 mahrgell wrote:
I just remember how the Bayern Fans were booing Neuer for half a season after he joined.
I doubt anyone on Bayern would give him away now. If you are performing, the fans will vorget their grudge.
Booing him for half a season? Thats not really true. The majority of Bayern fans wanted Neuer. Just a few idiots were against him and screamed the loudest.
With Götze its a different story, im pretty sure that the majority of BVB fans hate him.
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I did expect a loss, but this was quite a nice performance by England and I really hope we will see a re-match in the Euros. Will be a hard and exciting match, but that is what Euros are for 
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Looks like a weaker team will be in display tomorrow vs Netherlands. Milner to captain side for some reason which means a change in the back 4. However Vardy might start so we should be more than capable :D
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It's okay. You'll still stomp us. We'd have a tough time even if our A team was playing, but pretty much every single player in it is injured. So yeah, prepare for a Dutch team with the usual shoddy defense, no midfield to speak of, and an attack consisting of Depay, Affelay and Luuk de Jong (or something equally terrible).
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Over 58k people have visited Johan Cruyff's memorial here in Barcelona already. Much love to the 14.
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this new kit crazyness really has really gotten to me. There is a white-black-black team playing a blue-white-blue team in germany vs italy, and it took me at least 5 seconds to verify which one is which.
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On March 30 2016 03:48 Mafe wrote:
this new kit crazyness really has really gotten to me. There is a white-black-black team playing a blue-white-blue team in germany vs italy, and it took me at least 5 seconds to verify which one is which.
check Portugal - Belgium .. like wtf..
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Still can't believe what Marcel Koller did with the Austrian national team...
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On March 30 2016 03:48 Mafe wrote:
this new kit crazyness really has really gotten to me. There is a white-black-black team playing a blue-white-blue team in germany vs italy, and it took me at least 5 seconds to verify which one is which.
What's up with that? it's the same in the Portugal vs Belgium match. Portugal in very light (teal) green, kinda looking like a pijama, and Belgium in white and black.
Courtois is doing a magnificent game btw. Portugal already had like 4 goal attempts in 15 minutes and Courtois did some superb saves.
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On March 30 2016 04:02 bObaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2016 03:48 Mafe wrote:
this new kit crazyness really has really gotten to me. There is a white-black-black team playing a blue-white-blue team in germany vs italy, and it took me at least 5 seconds to verify which one is which. What's up with that? it's the same in the Portugal vs Belgium match. Portugal in very light (teal) green, kinda looking like a pijama, and Belgium in white and black. Courtois is doing a magnificent game btw. Portugal already had like 4 goal attempts in 15 minutes and Courtois did some superb saves.
Uhm, Germany and Italy are playing in their most traditional colors.
I think he wanted to say, that even though they play exactly as you would expect them, with all the recent shenanigans you are never sure if it is really like that or if for some weird reasons they swapped.
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If the Euro was right now I would probably play with this 11 players that are on the field right now.
The only changes that I would be inclined to do would be Rafa for Nani and Bernardo Silva for Adrien.
Other than that it's the best side we can present. João Mário is doing an incredible season. I would be very surprised if he didn't end up in a top club next year.
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Damn, Germany fell in the trap...
Just looking back into the past few weeks:
Juventus Bayern: 0-2 HT, 2-2 final
Bayern Juventus: 0-2 HT, 2-2 regular time, 4-2 Overtime
Germany England: 2-0 at minute 52, 2-3 final
now
Germany Italy: 2-0 HT, ??? final
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Italy hasn't scored yet. Time for Balotelli I guess? Or is he in China? AAAAND WHERE IS IMMOBILE? : D
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EPT
