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On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 02:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get.
Mid-table Bundesliga teams can definitely compete with the rest of Europe, so their problem isn't money overall; we've seen Gladbach and Leverkusen recently push Barca and Man U to their limits. The primary reason that mid-tier German teams don't perform as well in Europe is because they change every year, whereas Tottenham/Everton/Sevilla/etc. get to play in the CL/EL every year.
The Bundesliga's problem is the gap in wealth between Bayern and the rest, and it's 100% the reason that Bayern is in the spot they're in.
Bayern were already the club in Germany. Before, say, 2005 or so, they had still won the vast majority of championships and they were the only easily recognizable German club outside of Germany. However, they didn't have the financial muscle to get the best coaches all the time and buy every great player. The state of the game across Europe didn't allow for that level of dominance very easily. Other teams came in and were successful; Gladbach in the '70's, Dortmund in the 90's/a couple years ago, and a host of other teams have been able to sneak in and win titles/cups.
However, over the past decade plus, all of the big-name brands in European football have seen their values and overall spending power skyrocket. Seeing as Bayern was the only club in this position in Germany (compared to Arsenal/Man U/etc. in England, Real/Barca in Spain, Milan clubs/Juventus in Italy), they were the ones that were able to benefit. They essentially had a lead on the rest of the pack and the rules of the game allowed them to expand that lead over everyone else. Now that all of the big-money clubs can just suffocate the rest of Europe's clubs by swallowing up talent, Bayern are in the precise position they're in (completely owning the Bundesliga every year) because they're the only big-money club in Germany, and this means that no other club can become a big-money club. They basically have a monopoly on the German game now.
So yes, Bayern doesn't drop games against other teams due to the money; they could afford to buy that "mentality" (i.e. the incredible amount of talent and depth they have on their roster). And how do you change it? Bayern are the established king-pins of Germany. They'll always have more money and more trophies than anyone else in Germany, so they will automatically be the most desired location for the vast majority of players that consider playing in Germany.
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On October 05 2015 04:40 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get. Mid-table Bundesliga teams can definitely compete with the rest of Europe, so their problem isn't money overall; we've seen Gladbach and Leverkusen recently push Barca and Man U to their limits. The primary reason that mid-tier German teams don't perform as well in Europe is because they change every year, whereas Tottenham/Everton/Sevilla/etc. get to play in the CL/EL every year. The Bundesliga's problem is the gap in wealth between Bayern and the rest, and it's 100% the reason that Bayern is in the spot they're in. Bayern were already the club in Germany. Before, say, 2005 or so, they had still won the vast majority of championships and they were the only easily recognizable German club outside of Germany. However, they didn't have the financial muscle to get the best coaches all the time and buy every great player. The state of the game across Europe didn't allow for that level of dominance very easily. Other teams came in and were successful; Gladbach in the '70's, Dortmund in the 90's/a couple years ago, and a host of other teams have been able to sneak in and win titles/cups. However, over the past decade plus, all of the big-name brands in European football have seen their values and overall spending power skyrocket. Seeing as Bayern was the only club in this position in Germany (compared to Arsenal/Man U/etc. in England, Real/Barca in Spain, Milan clubs/Juventus in Italy), they were the ones that were able to benefit. They essentially had a lead on the rest of the pack and the rules of the game allowed them to expand that lead over everyone else. Now that all of the big-money clubs can just suffocate the rest of Europe's clubs by swallowing up talent, Bayern are in the precise position they're in (completely owning the Bundesliga every year) because they're the only big-money club in Germany, and this means that no other club can become a big-money club. They basically have a monopoly on the German game now. So yes, Bayern doesn't drop games against other teams due to the money; they could afford to buy that "mentality" (i.e. the incredible amount of talent and depth they have on their roster). And how do you change it? Bayern are the established king-pins of Germany. They'll always have more money and more trophies than anyone else in Germany, so they will automatically be the most desired location for the vast majority of players that consider playing in Germany.
Yeah that's what i had just edited into my last post as well haha. I agree with you.
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On October 05 2015 04:42 BlackCompany wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 04:40 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get. Mid-table Bundesliga teams can definitely compete with the rest of Europe, so their problem isn't money overall; we've seen Gladbach and Leverkusen recently push Barca and Man U to their limits. The primary reason that mid-tier German teams don't perform as well in Europe is because they change every year, whereas Tottenham/Everton/Sevilla/etc. get to play in the CL/EL every year. The Bundesliga's problem is the gap in wealth between Bayern and the rest, and it's 100% the reason that Bayern is in the spot they're in. Bayern were already the club in Germany. Before, say, 2005 or so, they had still won the vast majority of championships and they were the only easily recognizable German club outside of Germany. However, they didn't have the financial muscle to get the best coaches all the time and buy every great player. The state of the game across Europe didn't allow for that level of dominance very easily. Other teams came in and were successful; Gladbach in the '70's, Dortmund in the 90's/a couple years ago, and a host of other teams have been able to sneak in and win titles/cups. However, over the past decade plus, all of the big-name brands in European football have seen their values and overall spending power skyrocket. Seeing as Bayern was the only club in this position in Germany (compared to Arsenal/Man U/etc. in England, Real/Barca in Spain, Milan clubs/Juventus in Italy), they were the ones that were able to benefit. They essentially had a lead on the rest of the pack and the rules of the game allowed them to expand that lead over everyone else. Now that all of the big-money clubs can just suffocate the rest of Europe's clubs by swallowing up talent, Bayern are in the precise position they're in (completely owning the Bundesliga every year) because they're the only big-money club in Germany, and this means that no other club can become a big-money club. They basically have a monopoly on the German game now. So yes, Bayern doesn't drop games against other teams due to the money; they could afford to buy that "mentality" (i.e. the incredible amount of talent and depth they have on their roster). And how do you change it? Bayern are the established king-pins of Germany. They'll always have more money and more trophies than anyone else in Germany, so they will automatically be the most desired location for the vast majority of players that consider playing in Germany. Yeah that's what i had just edited into my last post as well haha. I agree with you.
Bayern is basically Celtic/Rangers (one of the two) from Scotland without the other club (essentially, Celtic now). They've monopolized the league to such an extent that I honestly can't imagine another team winning the league anymore.
You want to know the last time that a team besides Celtic/Rangers won the SPL?
1985.
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On October 05 2015 04:28 BlackCompany wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get. I do not think Bayern only wins because of money, sorry if i made that impression. Of course money helps a lot but its also the fact that players know they compete and win titles there. yeah its the insane quality of players has that makes them win and not drop games but not every team can afford that. And in the end you still have to beat Bayern which does not happen unless they have an off day and you have a good day. The competition for places 2-18 is fun and interesting but Bayern is a league above. obviously a huge TV deal helps, its slowly growing but catching up when 1,5 billions behind is incredibly hard Edit: oh and i think the average quality of the Bundesliga is fine, not as deep as e.g. Premier League, but still good. The main problem the Bundesliga has is that there is no permanent second really strong team. Spain has Real and Barca (and Athleitca i guess), England has Chelsea and City (+Arsenal and ManU kind of), Italy has Juve, Roma and Napoli. In Germany it's always up&down, its Bayern + somewhere else. One season Stuttgart wins, then it's Bayern for some years, then Wolfsburg does a surprise championship. The 2 years of Dortmund doing back to back championships was the clostest we have been to establishing a second strong team in quite some years. Sadly that only lasted 2 years and now we are back to Bayern just winning. I'm actually interested in seeing who will be the next one to put them to a real test
Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good.
On October 05 2015 04:40 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get. Mid-table Bundesliga teams can definitely compete with the rest of Europe, so their problem isn't money overall; we've seen Gladbach and Leverkusen recently push Barca and Man U to their limits. The primary reason that mid-tier German teams don't perform as well in Europe is because they change every year, whereas Tottenham/Everton/Sevilla/etc. get to play in the CL/EL every year. The Bundesliga's problem is the gap in wealth between Bayern and the rest, and it's 100% the reason that Bayern is in the spot they're in. Bayern were already the club in Germany. Before, say, 2005 or so, they had still won the vast majority of championships and they were the only easily recognizable German club outside of Germany. However, they didn't have the financial muscle to get the best coaches all the time and buy every great player. The state of the game across Europe didn't allow for that level of dominance very easily. Other teams came in and were successful; Gladbach in the '70's, Dortmund in the 90's/a couple years ago, and a host of other teams have been able to sneak in and win titles/cups. However, over the past decade plus, all of the big-name brands in European football have seen their values and overall spending power skyrocket. Seeing as Bayern was the only club in this position in Germany (compared to Arsenal/Man U/etc. in England, Real/Barca in Spain, Milan clubs/Juventus in Italy), they were the ones that were able to benefit. They essentially had a lead on the rest of the pack and the rules of the game allowed them to expand that lead over everyone else. Now that all of the big-money clubs can just suffocate the rest of Europe's clubs by swallowing up talent, Bayern are in the precise position they're in (completely owning the Bundesliga every year) because they're the only big-money club in Germany, and this means that no other club can become a big-money club. They basically have a monopoly on the German game now. So yes, Bayern doesn't drop games against other teams due to the money; they could afford to buy that "mentality" (i.e. the incredible amount of talent and depth they have on their roster). And how do you change it? Bayern are the established king-pins of Germany. They'll always have more money and more trophies than anyone else in Germany, so they will automatically be the most desired location for the vast majority of players that consider playing in Germany.
Of course money is a big factor like you can have any mentality you can imagine but if the talent isnt there you wont win much but this doesnt explain things like Arsenal or ManCity which spend huge chunks of money just to be the joke of europe almost every season. There is more to it then just €€€
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Biggest difference between Bayern and other German clubs is: when other clubs have a bad day they either lose their game or draw it.
With Bayern you can always count on the referee to help to get them the maximal points of a win. 
Just like Augsburg
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On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 04:28 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get. I do not think Bayern only wins because of money, sorry if i made that impression. Of course money helps a lot but its also the fact that players know they compete and win titles there. yeah its the insane quality of players has that makes them win and not drop games but not every team can afford that. And in the end you still have to beat Bayern which does not happen unless they have an off day and you have a good day. The competition for places 2-18 is fun and interesting but Bayern is a league above. obviously a huge TV deal helps, its slowly growing but catching up when 1,5 billions behind is incredibly hard Edit: oh and i think the average quality of the Bundesliga is fine, not as deep as e.g. Premier League, but still good. The main problem the Bundesliga has is that there is no permanent second really strong team. Spain has Real and Barca (and Athleitca i guess), England has Chelsea and City (+Arsenal and ManU kind of), Italy has Juve, Roma and Napoli. In Germany it's always up&down, its Bayern + somewhere else. One season Stuttgart wins, then it's Bayern for some years, then Wolfsburg does a surprise championship. The 2 years of Dortmund doing back to back championships was the clostest we have been to establishing a second strong team in quite some years. Sadly that only lasted 2 years and now we are back to Bayern just winning. I'm actually interested in seeing who will be the next one to put them to a real test Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good. Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 04:40 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get. Mid-table Bundesliga teams can definitely compete with the rest of Europe, so their problem isn't money overall; we've seen Gladbach and Leverkusen recently push Barca and Man U to their limits. The primary reason that mid-tier German teams don't perform as well in Europe is because they change every year, whereas Tottenham/Everton/Sevilla/etc. get to play in the CL/EL every year. The Bundesliga's problem is the gap in wealth between Bayern and the rest, and it's 100% the reason that Bayern is in the spot they're in. Bayern were already the club in Germany. Before, say, 2005 or so, they had still won the vast majority of championships and they were the only easily recognizable German club outside of Germany. However, they didn't have the financial muscle to get the best coaches all the time and buy every great player. The state of the game across Europe didn't allow for that level of dominance very easily. Other teams came in and were successful; Gladbach in the '70's, Dortmund in the 90's/a couple years ago, and a host of other teams have been able to sneak in and win titles/cups. However, over the past decade plus, all of the big-name brands in European football have seen their values and overall spending power skyrocket. Seeing as Bayern was the only club in this position in Germany (compared to Arsenal/Man U/etc. in England, Real/Barca in Spain, Milan clubs/Juventus in Italy), they were the ones that were able to benefit. They essentially had a lead on the rest of the pack and the rules of the game allowed them to expand that lead over everyone else. Now that all of the big-money clubs can just suffocate the rest of Europe's clubs by swallowing up talent, Bayern are in the precise position they're in (completely owning the Bundesliga every year) because they're the only big-money club in Germany, and this means that no other club can become a big-money club. They basically have a monopoly on the German game now. So yes, Bayern doesn't drop games against other teams due to the money; they could afford to buy that "mentality" (i.e. the incredible amount of talent and depth they have on their roster). And how do you change it? Bayern are the established king-pins of Germany. They'll always have more money and more trophies than anyone else in Germany, so they will automatically be the most desired location for the vast majority of players that consider playing in Germany. Of course money is a big factor like you can have any mentality you can imagine but if the talent isnt there you wont win much but this doesnt explain things like Arsenal or ManCity which spend huge chunks of money just to be the joke of europe almost every season. There is more to it then just €€€
Of course you need to spend your money correctly.
Arsenal just doesn't spend it and Man City just wastes it.
I also fucking hate that everyone is billing BVB-FCB as "Der Klassiker".
There is nothing about this clash that makes it Der Klassiker. It's so disingenuous because a generation ago the match was Gladbach-Bayern. It's a weak attempt to drum up press and to make the Bundesliga look more competitive than it is by comparing it to La Liga as opposed to the SPL.
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Is there always this much diving in la liga derby games? Jeez.
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On October 05 2015 04:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 04:28 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get. I do not think Bayern only wins because of money, sorry if i made that impression. Of course money helps a lot but its also the fact that players know they compete and win titles there. yeah its the insane quality of players has that makes them win and not drop games but not every team can afford that. And in the end you still have to beat Bayern which does not happen unless they have an off day and you have a good day. The competition for places 2-18 is fun and interesting but Bayern is a league above. obviously a huge TV deal helps, its slowly growing but catching up when 1,5 billions behind is incredibly hard Edit: oh and i think the average quality of the Bundesliga is fine, not as deep as e.g. Premier League, but still good. The main problem the Bundesliga has is that there is no permanent second really strong team. Spain has Real and Barca (and Athleitca i guess), England has Chelsea and City (+Arsenal and ManU kind of), Italy has Juve, Roma and Napoli. In Germany it's always up&down, its Bayern + somewhere else. One season Stuttgart wins, then it's Bayern for some years, then Wolfsburg does a surprise championship. The 2 years of Dortmund doing back to back championships was the clostest we have been to establishing a second strong team in quite some years. Sadly that only lasted 2 years and now we are back to Bayern just winning. I'm actually interested in seeing who will be the next one to put them to a real test Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good. On October 05 2015 04:40 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 04:13 Micro_Jackson wrote:On October 05 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:On October 05 2015 03:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:Good. He just wasn't doing well enough. Liverpool definitely has enough talent to be a quality team, but he wasn't able to get them to actually perform. Did anyone of you really think there was a 1% chance that Bayern would not win this season? Lol even if BVB would win today and not embarras themselves then Bayern will still be champion First, I just want to mention that back in 2012/2013 I called Bayern winning the Treble and winning at least the next 3 Bundesliga titles, maybe the next 5. I'm 3/5 of the way there. Second, I've come to the conclusion that no one in the English-speaking media that talks about the Bundesliga has a fucking clue what they're talking about. First, we heard last year that BVB had a legitimate chance to beat Bayern to the title at the beginning of the season (LOL no. All signs pointed to the fact that they didn't). Then, we heard BS about there maybe being an actual title race this season, and that Wolfsburg were the most likely challengers. Again, both of these ideas are completely ridiculous. Bayern only got better from last year and Wolfsburg got significantly worse. Anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that Bayern is guaranteed to win at least 4 out of the next 5 Bundesliga titles, and that it will be a major problem for the Bundesliga's competitiveness, quality, and popularity. Even if the rest of the league is very interesting (if you dropped Bayern from the league, BVB's start has been fantastic, and the whole rest of the league is extremely competitive), no one gives a shit when the league title is decided on Match Day 8. Well yeah, it's a problem the league has and we will not get rid of it unless we say e.g. 50 million salary tops for all players. But then the league looses its competitiveness in europe so we are fucked again. Bayern just demolished the only other team that looked really good in the league till now, Wolfsburg without DeBruyne is a mess, Leverkusen and Gladbach are struggeling. Schalke is doing well but they are so easily tilted that they will never win the title. Dortmund just got put into their place, i don't see a lot changing in the next years. Will take some time till Bayern has their guard down again so Dortmund 2.0 can happen like when they got double championchips. Bayern just does not drop games against low/mid tier teams anymore. You can dislike Bayern and say its all because of money and it is true to some degree but you have to respect that mentality. I am Bayern fan for around 20 years now and i have never seen a team like the Heynkes/Pep one. They are relentless in any game that matters, they look prepared against anyone and the club finally realised that a coach can win you games. Sadly it doesnt matter what Wolfsburg or Dortmund do. To win the title you have to win around 20 to 25 games even if they do their job and win both games who is gonna take the other 5+ games of Bayern? The Problem for average quality of Bundesliga is not Bayern. If Bayern wants a player they compete with 5 to 10 clubs with more money. The average Bundesliga club compeds with 50 to 100 clubs with more money. If you want Bundesliga to be more cloes and exciting you have to do something about the crazy tv deals other leagues get. Mid-table Bundesliga teams can definitely compete with the rest of Europe, so their problem isn't money overall; we've seen Gladbach and Leverkusen recently push Barca and Man U to their limits. The primary reason that mid-tier German teams don't perform as well in Europe is because they change every year, whereas Tottenham/Everton/Sevilla/etc. get to play in the CL/EL every year. The Bundesliga's problem is the gap in wealth between Bayern and the rest, and it's 100% the reason that Bayern is in the spot they're in. Bayern were already the club in Germany. Before, say, 2005 or so, they had still won the vast majority of championships and they were the only easily recognizable German club outside of Germany. However, they didn't have the financial muscle to get the best coaches all the time and buy every great player. The state of the game across Europe didn't allow for that level of dominance very easily. Other teams came in and were successful; Gladbach in the '70's, Dortmund in the 90's/a couple years ago, and a host of other teams have been able to sneak in and win titles/cups. However, over the past decade plus, all of the big-name brands in European football have seen their values and overall spending power skyrocket. Seeing as Bayern was the only club in this position in Germany (compared to Arsenal/Man U/etc. in England, Real/Barca in Spain, Milan clubs/Juventus in Italy), they were the ones that were able to benefit. They essentially had a lead on the rest of the pack and the rules of the game allowed them to expand that lead over everyone else. Now that all of the big-money clubs can just suffocate the rest of Europe's clubs by swallowing up talent, Bayern are in the precise position they're in (completely owning the Bundesliga every year) because they're the only big-money club in Germany, and this means that no other club can become a big-money club. They basically have a monopoly on the German game now. So yes, Bayern doesn't drop games against other teams due to the money; they could afford to buy that "mentality" (i.e. the incredible amount of talent and depth they have on their roster). And how do you change it? Bayern are the established king-pins of Germany. They'll always have more money and more trophies than anyone else in Germany, so they will automatically be the most desired location for the vast majority of players that consider playing in Germany. Of course money is a big factor like you can have any mentality you can imagine but if the talent isnt there you wont win much but this doesnt explain things like Arsenal or ManCity which spend huge chunks of money just to be the joke of europe almost every season. There is more to it then just €€€ Of course you need to spend your money correctly. Arsenal just doesn't spend it and Man City just wastes it.
If it wasn't so sad that the worst premier league teams get as much or more as the best Bundesliga teams i would laugh my ass of at the amount of money that is wasted in Premier League.
"Uh so we don't have enough room to store all our money in. Might as well pay 30 million $ for a mid tier player just for the heck of spending it"
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Typical Rafa Benitez game. Instead of winning 3-0 (at the very least), he takes a lucky draw. Real Madrid defending at 1-0... Shameful display.
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Great result for Barcelona! Now it's the national team break and before the clasico they only have easy games.
It'd have been cruel for Atletico to not at least get a point, they've been dominating for the whole game except for the first 10 minutes. I don't get why Torres is playing in this team, he looks so bad compared to Griezmann/Corea...
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On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good.
I feared for that too but as a Bayern fan I am very happy that it works out so well now
And by the way: Its ridiculous to complain about the money. How much money does Dortmund have compared to a team like Darmstadt? Wolfsburg compared to Hannover? And they still draw. If Wolfsburg and Dortmund just play like shit against lesser teams they dont have to complain about anyone but themselves and they will never have a shot at the title.
Bayern also did some really nice scouting this season. They didnt even spent that much. I thought costa was a shit transfer at first but oh boy he delivers. We spent 30 Mio on him, thats a sum also Dortmund or Wolfsburg could afford. Coman also seems to fit nice into the team, again he will only cost us 27 Mio if we decide to keep him in 2 years.
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On October 05 2015 05:48 TerransHill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good.
I feared for that too but as a Bayern fan I am very happy that it works out so well now And by the way: Its ridiculous to complain about the money. How much money does Dortmund have compared to a team like Darmstadt? Wolfsburg compared to Hannover? And they still draw. If Wolfsburg and Dortmund just play like shit against lesser teams they dont have to complain about anyone but themselves and they will never have a shot at the title. Bayern also did some really nice scouting this season. They didnt even spent that much. I thought costa was a shit transfer at first but oh boy he delivers. We spent 30 Mio on him, thats a sum also Dortmund or Wolfsburg could afford. Coman also seems to fit nice into the team, again he will only cost us 27 Mio if we decide to keep him in 2 years.
This is a really lazy argument that tends to come from fans of big-money clubs trying to justify themselves.
Why did Bayern only need to buy Costa this summer? Because they already had Müller, Lahm, Lewandowski, etc. Dortmund or Wolfsburg couldn't even afford to buy any one of the three individuals I just mentioned, not to mention the fact that Dortmund only spent 20M euros total and Wolfsburg 20.2M (before selling De Bruyne and buying Draxler) in the transfer window. So no, neither club could probably have afforded Costa.
You can go on all day about the right manager, the right mentality, etc., and these certainly play a part in success, but the fact is that money is what keeps Bayern where they are. It allows them to buy or keep the incredible amount of both starting quality and roster depth that then allows them to be both so good at their best and so consistent throughout all competitions. Being the only financial powerhouse of the Bundesliga for over 50 years is what allowed Bayern to cultivate an environment where they can make one good transfer in the summer and call it a success or where they can cultivate a winning mentality (that clubs like Leverkusen lack) so that they can finish out big games.
Bayern is a club that successfully took advantage of the rules of the game (or lack thereof) to create an unassailable position for themselves. It's pretty disingenuous to just say, "Psh, you plebs just need to be better at football" when it's not possible for another club to do what Bayern did/does precisely because Bayern already did it.
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On October 05 2015 06:09 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 05:48 TerransHill wrote:On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good.
I feared for that too but as a Bayern fan I am very happy that it works out so well now And by the way: Its ridiculous to complain about the money. How much money does Dortmund have compared to a team like Darmstadt? Wolfsburg compared to Hannover? And they still draw. If Wolfsburg and Dortmund just play like shit against lesser teams they dont have to complain about anyone but themselves and they will never have a shot at the title. Bayern also did some really nice scouting this season. They didnt even spent that much. I thought costa was a shit transfer at first but oh boy he delivers. We spent 30 Mio on him, thats a sum also Dortmund or Wolfsburg could afford. Coman also seems to fit nice into the team, again he will only cost us 27 Mio if we decide to keep him in 2 years. This is a really lazy argument that tends to come from fans of big-money clubs trying to justify themselves. Why did Bayern only need to buy Costa this summer? Because they already had Müller, Lahm, Lewandowski, etc. Dortmund or Wolfsburg couldn't even afford to buy any one of the three individuals I just mentioned, not to mention the fact that Dortmund only spent 20M euros total and Wolfsburg 20.2M (before selling De Bruyne and buying Draxler) in the transfer window. So no, neither club could probably have afforded Costa. You can go on all day about the right manager, the right mentality, etc., and these certainly play a part in success, but the fact is that money is what keeps Bayern where they are. It allows them to buy or keep the incredible amount of both starting quality and roster depth that then allows them to be both so good at their best and so consistent throughout all competitions. Being the only financial powerhouse of the Bundesliga for over 50 years is what allowed Bayern to cultivate an environment where they can make one good transfer in the summer and call it a success or where they can cultivate a winning mentality (that clubs like Leverkusen lack) so that they can finish out big games. Bayern is a club that successfully took advantage of the rules of the game (or lack thereof) to create an unassailable position for themselves. It's pretty disingenuous to just say, "Psh, you plebs just need to be better at football" when it's not possible for another club to do what Bayern did/does precisely because Bayern already did it.
Funny that you mention those 3 players, because Müller and Lahm came from the youth squad and Lewandowski for free.
Also Dortmund and Wolfsburg spent nearly the same amount for Mkhitaryan and Schürrle as Bayern did for Costa. Just because they didn't spent it this time doesn't mean that they aren't capable. I think you are the one with lazy arguments here.
Of course money does make difference. I don't argue with that. If you start winning against the likes of Hannover and Darmstadt but lose to Bayern you can start complaining about money. But until then it's better to sweep in front of your own door.
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This match would have been a victory for Atlético with last year Casillas. Ancelotti screwed last season benching Navas.
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On October 05 2015 06:29 TerransHill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 06:09 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 05:48 TerransHill wrote:On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good.
I feared for that too but as a Bayern fan I am very happy that it works out so well now And by the way: Its ridiculous to complain about the money. How much money does Dortmund have compared to a team like Darmstadt? Wolfsburg compared to Hannover? And they still draw. If Wolfsburg and Dortmund just play like shit against lesser teams they dont have to complain about anyone but themselves and they will never have a shot at the title. Bayern also did some really nice scouting this season. They didnt even spent that much. I thought costa was a shit transfer at first but oh boy he delivers. We spent 30 Mio on him, thats a sum also Dortmund or Wolfsburg could afford. Coman also seems to fit nice into the team, again he will only cost us 27 Mio if we decide to keep him in 2 years. This is a really lazy argument that tends to come from fans of big-money clubs trying to justify themselves. Why did Bayern only need to buy Costa this summer? Because they already had Müller, Lahm, Lewandowski, etc. Dortmund or Wolfsburg couldn't even afford to buy any one of the three individuals I just mentioned, not to mention the fact that Dortmund only spent 20M euros total and Wolfsburg 20.2M (before selling De Bruyne and buying Draxler) in the transfer window. So no, neither club could probably have afforded Costa. You can go on all day about the right manager, the right mentality, etc., and these certainly play a part in success, but the fact is that money is what keeps Bayern where they are. It allows them to buy or keep the incredible amount of both starting quality and roster depth that then allows them to be both so good at their best and so consistent throughout all competitions. Being the only financial powerhouse of the Bundesliga for over 50 years is what allowed Bayern to cultivate an environment where they can make one good transfer in the summer and call it a success or where they can cultivate a winning mentality (that clubs like Leverkusen lack) so that they can finish out big games. Bayern is a club that successfully took advantage of the rules of the game (or lack thereof) to create an unassailable position for themselves. It's pretty disingenuous to just say, "Psh, you plebs just need to be better at football" when it's not possible for another club to do what Bayern did/does precisely because Bayern already did it. Funny that you mention those 3 players, because Müller and Lahm came from the youth squad and Lewandowski for free. Also Dortmund and Wolfsburg spent nearly the same amount for Mkhitaryan and Schürrle as Bayern did for Costa. Just because they didn't spent it this time doesn't mean that they aren't capable. I think you are the one with lazy arguments here. Of course money does make difference. I don't argue with that. If you start winning against the likes of Hannover and Darmstadt but lose to Bayern you can start complaining about money. But until then it's better to sweep in front of your own door.
So Bayern casually makes one signing that equals BVB's record signing? Kind of proves my point.
Also, if they're from the youth squad or not is irrelevant. They still command salaries and transfer fees too high for either club. And let's also not pretend that most of Bayern's success is due to their youth program.
And talking about Darmstadt is a lazy deflection to try to hide the fact that Bayern is going to hurt the Bundesliga in the long run. No one is complaining about Bayern just beating BVB. The problem is the league dynamic as a whole.
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On October 05 2015 06:29 TerransHill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 06:09 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 05:48 TerransHill wrote:On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good.
I feared for that too but as a Bayern fan I am very happy that it works out so well now And by the way: Its ridiculous to complain about the money. How much money does Dortmund have compared to a team like Darmstadt? Wolfsburg compared to Hannover? And they still draw. If Wolfsburg and Dortmund just play like shit against lesser teams they dont have to complain about anyone but themselves and they will never have a shot at the title. Bayern also did some really nice scouting this season. They didnt even spent that much. I thought costa was a shit transfer at first but oh boy he delivers. We spent 30 Mio on him, thats a sum also Dortmund or Wolfsburg could afford. Coman also seems to fit nice into the team, again he will only cost us 27 Mio if we decide to keep him in 2 years. This is a really lazy argument that tends to come from fans of big-money clubs trying to justify themselves. Why did Bayern only need to buy Costa this summer? Because they already had Müller, Lahm, Lewandowski, etc. Dortmund or Wolfsburg couldn't even afford to buy any one of the three individuals I just mentioned, not to mention the fact that Dortmund only spent 20M euros total and Wolfsburg 20.2M (before selling De Bruyne and buying Draxler) in the transfer window. So no, neither club could probably have afforded Costa. You can go on all day about the right manager, the right mentality, etc., and these certainly play a part in success, but the fact is that money is what keeps Bayern where they are. It allows them to buy or keep the incredible amount of both starting quality and roster depth that then allows them to be both so good at their best and so consistent throughout all competitions. Being the only financial powerhouse of the Bundesliga for over 50 years is what allowed Bayern to cultivate an environment where they can make one good transfer in the summer and call it a success or where they can cultivate a winning mentality (that clubs like Leverkusen lack) so that they can finish out big games. Bayern is a club that successfully took advantage of the rules of the game (or lack thereof) to create an unassailable position for themselves. It's pretty disingenuous to just say, "Psh, you plebs just need to be better at football" when it's not possible for another club to do what Bayern did/does precisely because Bayern already did it. Funny that you mention those 3 players, because Müller and Lahm came from the youth squad and Lewandowski for free. Also Dortmund and Wolfsburg spent nearly the same amount for Mkhitaryan and Schürrle as Bayern did for Costa. Just because they didn't spent it this time doesn't mean that they aren't capable. I think you are the one with lazy arguments here. Of course money does make difference. I don't argue with that. If you start winning against the likes of Hannover and Darmstadt but lose to Bayern you can start complaining about money. But until then it's better to sweep in front of your own door.
Uh but that's half of the point. No team is as consisten as Bayern, all others drop points (e.g. vs Darmstadt). And this is related to the rooster and therefore money. It gets worse the longer the season goes because neither Dortmund nor Wolfsburg or Schalke can afford to bench Götze, Coman or Robben/Müller at times. Even IF Dortmund would win against the other teams then still nothing would change because they would probably loose to Bayern. Bayern vs team X is not the game that decides the title. It's all other games that Bayern can afford to win due to having such an incredible rooster that 5 games in 20 days don't matter to them while other teams get worn down and have to rotate.
Bayern is not only winning because of money, they developed some nice talents (like the ones you named) but money is a biiiiiiiig reason why they are and will be so far ahead until something changes. Bayern should build Hoeneß a statue because he made all the right moves and made sure it's almost impossible to fuck the dominance up.
Oh and Lewandowski was only for free because Dortmund was smart enough to not sell the best striker for ~20 millions. A risky move that i agree with though. And it's not like Bayern only made smart transfers, Costa was together with Weigl the best transfer of the league but just because Bayern hit a homerun this time doesn't mean they always do.
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On October 05 2015 06:39 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 06:29 TerransHill wrote:On October 05 2015 06:09 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 05:48 TerransHill wrote:On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good.
I feared for that too but as a Bayern fan I am very happy that it works out so well now And by the way: Its ridiculous to complain about the money. How much money does Dortmund have compared to a team like Darmstadt? Wolfsburg compared to Hannover? And they still draw. If Wolfsburg and Dortmund just play like shit against lesser teams they dont have to complain about anyone but themselves and they will never have a shot at the title. Bayern also did some really nice scouting this season. They didnt even spent that much. I thought costa was a shit transfer at first but oh boy he delivers. We spent 30 Mio on him, thats a sum also Dortmund or Wolfsburg could afford. Coman also seems to fit nice into the team, again he will only cost us 27 Mio if we decide to keep him in 2 years. This is a really lazy argument that tends to come from fans of big-money clubs trying to justify themselves. Why did Bayern only need to buy Costa this summer? Because they already had Müller, Lahm, Lewandowski, etc. Dortmund or Wolfsburg couldn't even afford to buy any one of the three individuals I just mentioned, not to mention the fact that Dortmund only spent 20M euros total and Wolfsburg 20.2M (before selling De Bruyne and buying Draxler) in the transfer window. So no, neither club could probably have afforded Costa. You can go on all day about the right manager, the right mentality, etc., and these certainly play a part in success, but the fact is that money is what keeps Bayern where they are. It allows them to buy or keep the incredible amount of both starting quality and roster depth that then allows them to be both so good at their best and so consistent throughout all competitions. Being the only financial powerhouse of the Bundesliga for over 50 years is what allowed Bayern to cultivate an environment where they can make one good transfer in the summer and call it a success or where they can cultivate a winning mentality (that clubs like Leverkusen lack) so that they can finish out big games. Bayern is a club that successfully took advantage of the rules of the game (or lack thereof) to create an unassailable position for themselves. It's pretty disingenuous to just say, "Psh, you plebs just need to be better at football" when it's not possible for another club to do what Bayern did/does precisely because Bayern already did it. Funny that you mention those 3 players, because Müller and Lahm came from the youth squad and Lewandowski for free. Also Dortmund and Wolfsburg spent nearly the same amount for Mkhitaryan and Schürrle as Bayern did for Costa. Just because they didn't spent it this time doesn't mean that they aren't capable. I think you are the one with lazy arguments here. Of course money does make difference. I don't argue with that. If you start winning against the likes of Hannover and Darmstadt but lose to Bayern you can start complaining about money. But until then it's better to sweep in front of your own door. So Bayern casually makes one signing that equals BVB's record signing? Kind of proves my point. Also, if they're from the youth squad or not is irrelevant. They still command salaries and transfer fees too high for either club. And let's also not pretend that most of Bayern's success is due to their youth program. And talking about Darmstadt is a lazy deflection to try to hide the fact that Bayern is going to hurt the Bundesliga in the long run. No one is complaining about Bayern just beating BVB. The problem is the league dynamic as a whole.
That "casual signing" who turns out to be the successor of the legendary Ribery. You don't need that much money to sign a great player.
Like I already mentioned, money helps of course. And I never said it's easy to challange us. It's a slow process, but Dortmund has all the possibilities to get there. But they keep dropping points against teams which they should be able to beat comfortably and don't even give us a fight when playing against us. It's just lazy to bring up the money argument all the freaking time, but I guess it's easier that way.
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On October 05 2015 06:52 TerransHill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 06:39 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 06:29 TerransHill wrote:On October 05 2015 06:09 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 05 2015 05:48 TerransHill wrote:On October 05 2015 04:52 Micro_Jackson wrote:
Well a couple of months ago i thought the next window for Dortmund or Wolfsburg will be when they transition form Schweinsteiger/Ribery/Robben/Lahm to another core that needs time to get the chemistry but they are kinda doing that on the fly now. And for Bundesliga at least it doesnt look good.
I feared for that too but as a Bayern fan I am very happy that it works out so well now And by the way: Its ridiculous to complain about the money. How much money does Dortmund have compared to a team like Darmstadt? Wolfsburg compared to Hannover? And they still draw. If Wolfsburg and Dortmund just play like shit against lesser teams they dont have to complain about anyone but themselves and they will never have a shot at the title. Bayern also did some really nice scouting this season. They didnt even spent that much. I thought costa was a shit transfer at first but oh boy he delivers. We spent 30 Mio on him, thats a sum also Dortmund or Wolfsburg could afford. Coman also seems to fit nice into the team, again he will only cost us 27 Mio if we decide to keep him in 2 years. This is a really lazy argument that tends to come from fans of big-money clubs trying to justify themselves. Why did Bayern only need to buy Costa this summer? Because they already had Müller, Lahm, Lewandowski, etc. Dortmund or Wolfsburg couldn't even afford to buy any one of the three individuals I just mentioned, not to mention the fact that Dortmund only spent 20M euros total and Wolfsburg 20.2M (before selling De Bruyne and buying Draxler) in the transfer window. So no, neither club could probably have afforded Costa. You can go on all day about the right manager, the right mentality, etc., and these certainly play a part in success, but the fact is that money is what keeps Bayern where they are. It allows them to buy or keep the incredible amount of both starting quality and roster depth that then allows them to be both so good at their best and so consistent throughout all competitions. Being the only financial powerhouse of the Bundesliga for over 50 years is what allowed Bayern to cultivate an environment where they can make one good transfer in the summer and call it a success or where they can cultivate a winning mentality (that clubs like Leverkusen lack) so that they can finish out big games. Bayern is a club that successfully took advantage of the rules of the game (or lack thereof) to create an unassailable position for themselves. It's pretty disingenuous to just say, "Psh, you plebs just need to be better at football" when it's not possible for another club to do what Bayern did/does precisely because Bayern already did it. Funny that you mention those 3 players, because Müller and Lahm came from the youth squad and Lewandowski for free. Also Dortmund and Wolfsburg spent nearly the same amount for Mkhitaryan and Schürrle as Bayern did for Costa. Just because they didn't spent it this time doesn't mean that they aren't capable. I think you are the one with lazy arguments here. Of course money does make difference. I don't argue with that. If you start winning against the likes of Hannover and Darmstadt but lose to Bayern you can start complaining about money. But until then it's better to sweep in front of your own door. So Bayern casually makes one signing that equals BVB's record signing? Kind of proves my point. Also, if they're from the youth squad or not is irrelevant. They still command salaries and transfer fees too high for either club. And let's also not pretend that most of Bayern's success is due to their youth program. And talking about Darmstadt is a lazy deflection to try to hide the fact that Bayern is going to hurt the Bundesliga in the long run. No one is complaining about Bayern just beating BVB. The problem is the league dynamic as a whole. That "casual signing" who turns out to be the successor of the legendary Ribery. You don't need that much money to sign a great player. Like I already mentioned, money helps of course. And I never said it's easy to challange us. It's a slow process, but Dortmund has all the possibilities to get there. But they keep dropping points against teams which they should be able to beat comfortably and don't even give us a fight when playing against us. It's just lazy to bring up the money argument all the freaking time, but I guess it's easier that way.
Again, "just play better" is a weak argument when you refuse to acknowledge why other clubs haven't been able to get close to Bayern's level for years. It's pretty arrogant to think that Bayern are in their position purely because the current regime is just that much better at everything when it comes to running a club than all other German clubs.
You are like the rich American Republican that inherited his dad's big fortune telling poor people that its all their fault that they're poor and that they just need to work harder to be as awesome as he is.
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