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On November 27 2014 22:50 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 22:30 Steveling wrote:
So, wait pande, in the last few years(since cristiano joined rm), messi has more goals, more assists, in less games than cristiano with better converting ratio of chance per goal and you claim that they are the same?
Sounds to me like you are just bitter and don't want to admit the obvious. This sounded like bullshit so I checked the numbers. Since Ronaldo joined Real, Messi has 291 goals in 281 games, and Ronaldo has 278 in 265. So, Messi has played in 16 more games and has scored 13 more goals, meaning that Ronaldo's goalscoring ratio is actually fractionally better. I couldn't care less about the Messi vs. Ronaldo debate (why not just enjoy them both?), but pulling stats out of thin air is not the best way to argue. And yes, I'm fully prepared for the reply in which you completely sidestep the goal issue and point out Messi's assists, trophies, fashion choices, etc.
That's cute but who do you think is better?
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okay
call me when this shit is over
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On November 27 2014 23:26 BeaTeR wrote:
okay
call me when this shit is over
ditto that
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On November 27 2014 23:10 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 22:50 city42 wrote:On November 27 2014 22:30 Steveling wrote:
So, wait pande, in the last few years(since cristiano joined rm), messi has more goals, more assists, in less games than cristiano with better converting ratio of chance per goal and you claim that they are the same?
Sounds to me like you are just bitter and don't want to admit the obvious. This sounded like bullshit so I checked the numbers. Since Ronaldo joined Real, Messi has 291 goals in 281 games, and Ronaldo has 278 in 265. So, Messi has played in 16 more games and has scored 13 more goals, meaning that Ronaldo's goalscoring ratio is actually fractionally better. I couldn't care less about the Messi vs. Ronaldo debate (why not just enjoy them both?), but pulling stats out of thin air is not the best way to argue. And yes, I'm fully prepared for the reply in which you completely sidestep the goal issue and point out Messi's assists, trophies, fashion choices, etc. That's cute but who do you think is better?
I think Messi at his peak is/was better than Ronaldo at his peak, but Ronaldo has been better in 2014 and deserves the Ballon d'Or. I also think that it's a pointless debate as they are very different players in very different circumstances.
Seeing page after page of regurgitated Messi stats (some of them false as we have found out) and teenage-level arguments gets very old.
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can you ten-year-olds stop these silly arguments now plz?
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On November 27 2014 21:48 Twisted wrote:
There are no players currently playing in the premier league that are top 10 in the world, sorry. And no, Suarez wasn't the best player in the world last year. And La Liga the last few years destroys the Premier League with your 'lolliga'.
Ehh fuck it I'm not gonna join this discussion again.
Uh? I agree that la liga isn't loliga, but your seriously saying Aguero isn't in the top ten players in the world right now? Honestly? And Di maria was defiantly considered top 10 only a few months ago. That's without mentioning costa, silva, sanchez, rooney, Toure(when he can be arsed)
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Norway28876 Posts
On November 27 2014 22:30 Steveling wrote:
So, wait pande, in the last few years(since cristiano joined rm), messi has more goals, more assists, in less games than cristiano with better converting ratio of chance per goal and you claim that they are the same?
Sounds to me like you are just bitter and don't want to admit the obvious.
so do you agree that this season cronaldo is better? I have no problems with messi being #1 overall since ronaldo joined la liga, or that his peak level was the highest we've ever seen of anyone. But then ronaldo is top dog in 2014 - especially so far in the 2014-2015 season. 20 goals in 11 matches, it's an absolutely absurd ratio. and messi only has 10 in 12!
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On November 27 2014 23:34 themartinez wrote:
can you ten-year-olds stop these silly arguments now plz?
+ Show Spoiler +
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Norway28876 Posts
On November 27 2014 23:35 UdderChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 21:48 Twisted wrote:
There are no players currently playing in the premier league that are top 10 in the world, sorry. And no, Suarez wasn't the best player in the world last year. And La Liga the last few years destroys the Premier League with your 'lolliga'.
Ehh fuck it I'm not gonna join this discussion again. Uh? I agree that la liga isn't loliga, but your seriously saying Aguero isn't in the top ten players in the world right now? Honestly? And Di maria was defiantly considered top 10 only a few months ago. That's without mentioning costa, silva, sanchez, rooney, Toure(when he can be arsed)
beyond #1 and #2 it's all open for debate. But yeah, just outright stating that aguero, toure, hazard, costa, etc aren't top 10.. sure it's an argument you can make because it's so hard to define players #3-10 as there are basically like 30 players that are impossible to really separate skillwise. So it's not really wrong, but you could just as well state that robben is the only bundesliga player in the top 10, that messi is the only barcelona player and that ronaldo is the only real madrid player. I can make a 3-10 list featuring either no PL players, no real madrid players, no barcelona players, no bundesliga players, and they would all be about the same.
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On November 27 2014 23:38 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 22:30 Steveling wrote:
So, wait pande, in the last few years(since cristiano joined rm), messi has more goals, more assists, in less games than cristiano with better converting ratio of chance per goal and you claim that they are the same?
Sounds to me like you are just bitter and don't want to admit the obvious. so do you agree that this season cronaldo is better? I have no problems with messi being #1 overall since ronaldo joined la liga, or that his peak level was the highest we've ever seen of anyone. But then ronaldo is top dog in 2014 - especially so far in the 2014-2015 season. 20 goals in 11 matches, it's an absolutely absurd ratio. and messi only has 10 in 12!
Well, first you are doing it wrong, I don't remember the exact numbers but in 2014 cristiano has 2 goals more than messi.
Or mby 3 since he scored once last night.
So, until now cristiano scored more in 2014.
But is he the better player? No, since messi has many more assists plus a world cup final and being 2-3 goals down is nothing of significance.
Neuer deserves it more than cristiano tbh.
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On November 27 2014 23:26 BeaTeR wrote:
okay
call me when this shit is over
Already? We haven't even started talking about Barcelona match-fixing yet 
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On November 27 2014 23:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 23:35 UdderChaos wrote:On November 27 2014 21:48 Twisted wrote:
There are no players currently playing in the premier league that are top 10 in the world, sorry. And no, Suarez wasn't the best player in the world last year. And La Liga the last few years destroys the Premier League with your 'lolliga'.
Ehh fuck it I'm not gonna join this discussion again. Uh? I agree that la liga isn't loliga, but your seriously saying Aguero isn't in the top ten players in the world right now? Honestly? And Di maria was defiantly considered top 10 only a few months ago. That's without mentioning costa, silva, sanchez, rooney, Toure(when he can be arsed) beyond #1 and #2 it's all open for debate. But yeah, just outright stating that aguero, toure, hazard, costa, etc aren't top 10.. sure it's an argument you can make because it's so hard to define players #3-10 as there are basically like 30 players that are impossible to really separate skillwise. So it's not really wrong, but you could just as well state that robben is the only bundesliga player in the top 10, that messi is the only barcelona player and that ronaldo is the only real madrid player. I can make a 3-10 list featuring either no PL players, no real madrid players, no barcelona players, no bundesliga players, and they would all be about the same.
I'd say Aguero, Robben and Neur at the moment are comfortably at a level between CR7/Messi and the others. But then it gets very congested i agree
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I found it.
Messi so far has 52 goals and 21 assists.
Cristiano has 55 and 17.
Pretty similar right? So clearly the better player is the one with the biggest impact and that's messi.
RM wouldn't even win la decima if ramos didn't bail them out literally in the last minute.
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On November 28 2014 00:16 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2014 20:06 Steveling wrote:On November 27 2014 20:02 SatedSC2 wrote:
Messi has also had a much more consistent/successful supporting cast, not to mention that a lot of Ronaldo's CL games came at Manchester United where he wasn't always utilised as the main fulcrum of the attack. *facepalm* How is your post relevant to the stat like, at all? Football is a team game. Ronaldo has primarily played in teams where pressure has been on him to create his own goals for himself, to score from everywhere, to do everything. He has had a weaker supporting cast providing him with possible goals than Messi. He has had a weaker supporting cast for whom he could provide assists than Messi. He has played in less successful teams than Messi. Acting as if individual stats exist within a vacuum in a team sport is ridiculous. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. You can make statistics sing any song you want if you're willing to ignore the circumstances they were collected under. There is a reason why in scientific studies we only tend to change one variable at a time whilst also running control experiments...
Weaker supporting cast, yeah, xabi alonso, ozil, di maria and modric are rly bad.
I'm not even going to comment that messi scores a shitload of goals solo or that xaviniesta has assisted him less goals than what he assisted them both.
Did you even read the article?
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The fact that Ronaldo has dominated leagues in 2 countries is to his credit I think. The EPL is a different style and Ronaldo was by far the best player when he was here.
Says nothing about Messi though.
You just can't compare them, it doesn't work. Between them they have every attacking quality, but their strengths and weaknesses are too different.
If i wanted to counter attack with speed I would want Ronaldo. If i wanted to pass and dribble through deep packed defence i would want Messi. Both can do both jobs, but you can see the difference clearly if you think about it like this.
Both are top quality, they are definitely the top 2 in the world, but it'll never be decided between them.
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On November 28 2014 00:24 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2014 00:22 Steveling wrote:On November 28 2014 00:16 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 27 2014 20:06 Steveling wrote:On November 27 2014 20:02 SatedSC2 wrote:
Messi has also had a much more consistent/successful supporting cast, not to mention that a lot of Ronaldo's CL games came at Manchester United where he wasn't always utilised as the main fulcrum of the attack. *facepalm* How is your post relevant to the stat like, at all? Football is a team game. Ronaldo has primarily played in teams where pressure has been on him to create his own goals for himself, to score from everywhere, to do everything. He has had a weaker supporting cast providing him with possible goals than Messi. He has had a weaker supporting cast for whom he could provide assists than Messi. He has played in less successful teams than Messi. Acting as if individual stats exist within a vacuum in a team sport is ridiculous. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. You can make statistics sing any song you want if you're willing to ignore the circumstances they were collected under. There is a reason why in scientific studies we only tend to change one variable at a time whilst also running control experiments... Weaker supporting cast, yeah, xabi alonso, ozil, di maria and modric are rly bad. I'm not even going to comment that messi scores a shitload of goals solo or that xaviniesta has assisted him less goals than what he assisted them both. Did you even read the article? I don't read propaganda  You're trying to compare two different types of player in a team game using individual statistics. The number of fallacies is too damn high.
Thanks for proving my point.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8VczSXrH3p0/Te8qgc4lnMI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/2oYCqvTallw/s1600/JbOx.gif)
