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Haven't posted in a while, but I have been fighting an injury for a bit here, its upper thigh right at waist height, like centre of the leg. I initially thought I had a groin pull, but after about 5 weeks of being over cautious and not really training, the pain has kind of localized to just that one area.
Anyone here experienced this before? its been 5 weeks, and while initially I would have trouble walking after a short run, I am making it up to 10k now, only really doing 1 run a week, just to see how the recovery is coming, as it doesn't hurt at all until I am well into a run. It also doesn't hurt nearly as much if I shorten my strides, I guess limiting the range of motion of my leg.
The internet wants me to believe it is a Rectus Femoris Tendon Inflammation. I just switched jobs so my benefits are gone for another 2 months, no physio for me this time around, so hoping someone is familiar with this.
Starting to get slightly concerned as next weekend is a HM then 2 weeks after a 17km tough mudder course, with the following week another HM(optional at this point, I might not do it)
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On August 15 2014 09:30 Bonham wrote:
I was really shocked at how weak Farah looked in winning it, actually. It's one thing to read about his recent health travails and another to see him look so feeble.
Yeah, really hoping Mo is able to stabilize and train hard again soon.
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On August 19 2014 02:13 mtmentat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2014 09:30 Bonham wrote:
I was really shocked at how weak Farah looked in winning it, actually. It's one thing to read about his recent health travails and another to see him look so feeble.
Yeah, really hoping Mo is able to stabilize and train hard again soon.
No ascent race report yet, we need all ze details!
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Today I did my "Run so slow that you're embarrased if someone is watching you"-run. I haven't done something like this in quite a while and is pretty hard to do. I ran mostly on track and tried to never let my heartrate get above 135. I pretty much needed ~3.00 on average per 400m, so 7:30/km, 131 average heartrate. 5.9km total. Was a good way to break in my new light shoes though.
I also went to see an orthopaedist today and he suggests to do an isokenetics-analysis for my hips and knees to analyze where my pain comes from. My bones and my mobility were perfectly fine, and since I have had light pain for so long it shouldn't be a strain or a torn ligament. Has anyone experience with isokinetics? It will cost me ~160€ initially and by now I don't trust doctors easily with their methods (accupuncture was basically giving away 350 bucks for free). Would love to here your experiences, if any.
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On August 19 2014 03:03 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 02:13 mtmentat wrote:On August 15 2014 09:30 Bonham wrote:
I was really shocked at how weak Farah looked in winning it, actually. It's one thing to read about his recent health travails and another to see him look so feeble.
Yeah, really hoping Mo is able to stabilize and train hard again soon. No ascent race report yet, we need all ze details!
He wrote a nice recap in the notes on the run on Strava.
Killer run dude. I ran a half in West Virginia a few months ago which I thought was killer (had like 1500ft of gain) I can't even imagine doing the Pike's Peak Ascent...
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On August 19 2014 03:18 Malinor wrote:
Today I did my "Run so slow that you're embarrased if someone is watching you"-run. I haven't done something like this in quite a while and is pretty hard to do. I ran mostly on track and tried to never let my heartrate get above 135. I pretty much needed ~3.00 on average per 400m, so 7:30/km, 131 average heartrate. 5.9km total. Was a good way to break in my new light shoes though.
I also went to see an orthopaedist today and he suggests to do an isokenetics-analysis for my hips and knees to analyze where my pain comes from. My bones and my mobility were perfectly fine, and since I have had light pain for so long it shouldn't be a strain or a torn ligament. Has anyone experience with isokinetics? It will cost me ~160€ initially and by now I don't trust doctors easily with their methods (accupuncture was basically giving away 350 bucks for free). Would love to here your experiences, if any.
If you're in the typical 190-200 for HR max that's definitely a nice easy run. I find one days I'm feeling good 70-75% of max is a good cruising heart rate. If I feel tired I tend to keep it around 65% of max, and if I really want a recovery specific day I'm doing 55-60% of max...which feels rrreeaaalllyyy fuckin slow. I don't really train by HR though, I just know how certain HR tends to feel. Anything above 75% of max and you are definitely NOT running easy.
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On August 19 2014 03:03 L_Master wrote:
No ascent race report yet, we need all ze details!
Haha, yeah. After the race was great, just to zone out for a while (aka the whole rest of the weekend).
So, as far as my goals for the season, I'm 1/3. I did finish well enough in the Mt. Evans Ascent to get the granite, but I was 24th at the La Luz (goal had been an ambitious top ten) and I was pretty far out from my goal of going Sub-3 hours on the Pikes Peak Ascent. I'm kind of middle of the road disappointed with this, but it has been a pretty busy year and you really do reap what you sow with regards to training for these types of runs. Anyone out there who is planning to race up mountains: do lots of time above 10,000ft in order to prepare!!
Race Report (data on Strava: http://www.strava.com/activities/181210950)
A Lesson in [German] Efficiency
Wow, what a run/walk to finish it out. This was my first time running the Ascent (in full) and was a pretty amazing experience. To start with my friend Ben K has been putting in his dues and it was pretty clear he was going to run faster than I could. So, who to run with?
The Germans! Several countries were represented at the Ascent this year, and going onto the trail and the first major climb I noticed a woman marked with black/red/gold near me with a very metered cadence who just gave me the impression that she had a PLAN. For the first 4 miles on trail I stuck with this lady, during which time we passed many runners, but only those who had gone out too fast. Her pace didn't change very much at all during this section, very steady and really instructive on how this sort of race should be run.
So, of course, getting to the easier middle section I decided to open up the throttle a bit and left the German (Maier, by her bib) behind. Beautiful day, tried to keep my breathing under control, but probably went a bit faster than I ought to have. Elevation still not an issue. Made a new friend, Sam, paced for a while together and just tried to cruise.
Aaaah, elevation. Going into the run I once again definitely didn't do enough hard running/training at elevation. Hitting the Barr Trail water station, I was just congratulating myself on not having walked yet. Yet. Barr Trail to A frame I really started to feel poorly (steeper than it looks, too). I walked then, while sucking down a gel, hoping this would refocus my effort.
A-Frame, okay, I should be okay. Just another 3ish miles!! The gravel, the climbing, the O2 depletion left me with too many excuses and I began to lose the race and began walking a LOT.
German runner passes me at this point, probably going at exactly the same pace as before. I am seriously impressed with her strength and good judgement (obviously practiced and semi-pro). Wow! I will have to learn from this. Likewise, RMR's Silke Koester passed me a short while afterward, and probably ran a very similar style of smart race. Kudos!
It doesn't end. You can see the face of the mountain, all of it, but you still have 2.5 miles left, one aid station, and a ton of elevation to go. Gravel, gravel, gravel. I continue to walk a lot, but get short bursts of energy by telling myself that it only gets harder and that running on the sections with good surfaces or medium grade was the only way to get ahead. Still, mostly power walking and reminding myself to breath, breath, breath.
Last aid station to the Summit was crazy-tough. I don't know if it was the walking or just the distance, but my left calf muscle began cramping up, just in time for the "stairs:" sections of rock scramble prior to the finish. Ouch! I did run it in, and held off a South African runner coming up strong behind me.
Overall: pretty good race, for me. 3:14 is a good number, but a bit off of what I had set as my goal. 146th place out of about 1700 finishers. Beautiful racing conditions, and great to run it with friends and RMR teammates. More training at altitude is needed, steady pacing, will be the only way to improve on this for me.
Bonus: Afterward was pretty awesome, too. The view from the top is spectacular, and they had a ton of snacks and gatorade/water for us to gulp down before heading down the mountain on the shuttle. Really a beautiful day - I can't imagine what that race would be if the weather wasn't cooperating.
ALSO: looking over the results again, I was surprised to see that a fellow runner originally from Polson, MT, won the Double (Ascent on Saturday followed by Marathon on Sunday). Hell yeah, Jason!!
A couple of crazy goofballs (friend in blue actually trained well for it, ran a 3:00:30)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8aj4ipx.jpg?1)
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On August 19 2014 21:18 mtmentat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 19 2014 03:03 L_Master wrote:
No ascent race report yet, we need all ze details! Haha, yeah. After the race was great, just to zone out for a while (aka the whole rest of the weekend). So, as far as my goals for the season, I'm 1/3. I did finish well enough in the Mt. Evans Ascent to get the granite, but I was 24th at the La Luz (goal had been an ambitious top ten) and I was pretty far out from my goal of going Sub-3 hours on the Pikes Peak Ascent. I'm kind of middle of the road disappointed with this, but it has been a pretty busy year and you really do reap what you sow with regards to training for these types of runs. Anyone out there who is planning to race up mountains: do lots of time above 10,000ft in order to prepare!! Race Report (data on Strava: http://www.strava.com/activities/181210950)A Lesson in [German] Efficiency Wow, what a run/walk to finish it out. This was my first time running the Ascent (in full) and was a pretty amazing experience. To start with my friend Ben K has been putting in his dues and it was pretty clear he was going to run faster than I could. So, who to run with? The Germans! Several countries were represented at the Ascent this year, and going onto the trail and the first major climb I noticed a woman marked with black/red/gold near me with a very metered cadence who just gave me the impression that she had a PLAN. For the first 4 miles on trail I stuck with this lady, during which time we passed many runners, but only those who had gone out too fast. Her pace didn't change very much at all during this section, very steady and really instructive on how this sort of race should be run. So, of course, getting to the easier middle section I decided to open up the throttle a bit and left the German (Maier, by her bib) behind. Beautiful day, tried to keep my breathing under control, but probably went a bit faster than I ought to have. Elevation still not an issue. Made a new friend, Sam, paced for a while together and just tried to cruise. Aaaah, elevation. Going into the run I once again definitely didn't do enough hard running/training at elevation. Hitting the Barr Trail water station, I was just congratulating myself on not having walked yet. Yet. Barr Trail to A frame I really started to feel poorly (steeper than it looks, too). I walked then, while sucking down a gel, hoping this would refocus my effort. A-Frame, okay, I should be okay. Just another 3ish miles!! The gravel, the climbing, the O2 depletion left me with too many excuses and I began to lose the race and began walking a LOT. German runner passes me at this point, probably going at exactly the same pace as before. I am seriously impressed with her strength and good judgement (obviously practiced and semi-pro). Wow! I will have to learn from this. Likewise, RMR's Silke Koester passed me a short while afterward, and probably ran a very similar style of smart race. Kudos! It doesn't end. You can see the face of the mountain, all of it, but you still have 2.5 miles left, one aid station, and a ton of elevation to go. Gravel, gravel, gravel. I continue to walk a lot, but get short bursts of energy by telling myself that it only gets harder and that running on the sections with good surfaces or medium grade was the only way to get ahead. Still, mostly power walking and reminding myself to breath, breath, breath. Last aid station to the Summit was crazy-tough. I don't know if it was the walking or just the distance, but my left calf muscle began cramping up, just in time for the "stairs:" sections of rock scramble prior to the finish. Ouch! I did run it in, and held off a South African runner coming up strong behind me. Overall: pretty good race, for me. 3:14 is a good number, but a bit off of what I had set as my goal. 146th place out of about 1700 finishers. Beautiful racing conditions, and great to run it with friends and RMR teammates. More training at altitude is needed, steady pacing, will be the only way to improve on this for me. Bonus: Afterward was pretty awesome, too. The view from the top is spectacular, and they had a ton of snacks and gatorade/water for us to gulp down before heading down the mountain on the shuttle. Really a beautiful day - I can't imagine what that race would be if the weather wasn't cooperating. ALSO: looking over the results again, I was surprised to see that a fellow runner originally from Polson, MT, won the Double (Ascent on Saturday followed by Marathon on Sunday). Hell yeah, Jason!! A couple of crazy goofballs (friend in blue actually trained well for it, ran a 3:00:30)
Holy shit, that elevation profile. Thanks for the write-up. I really enjoyed it. 146th is a great achievement and you should be proud of. it.
After googling the name of your German acquaintance I quickly found out that the race hosted this year's "World Mountain Running Association Long Distance Challenge". Is this some official Championship? Whatever, it explains why you ran with a runner of Germany's national moutain running team. Race report in German. But it has some pics which you might like.
_______________
I finally had a temporun today which felt like a breakthrough. I managed to run at an ambitious racepace and still felt OK afterwards. No way I can run this the whole distance at the moment but I still have two months left and I'm getting there.
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Thanks, Don_Julio! 'Glad also that you're feeling good, GL GL GL!
The WMRA Long Distance Challenge seems to hit Pikes every 4 years or so, looking at the history. This was my first time running Pikes, so I can't comment on the level of international participation year-to-year.
It was pretty cool seeing the race report from Team Germany. I guess the gal I mentioned got top three in her sex/age group, so that's pretty cool.
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Question:
Im doing a training program that goes by heartrate. Today's run (and this is about 1 run a week) is interval training. It tells me to do threshold for 2 min and then 1 min rest (repeat 10 times). It asks me to stay under 173 bbm. Does this make any sense to anyone? When I go at threshold my hr is 180-185 and, while I understand the point of limiting my HR for my other weekly runs, should I be holding back on this type of training?
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On August 22 2014 12:44 caznitch wrote:
Question:
Im doing a training program that goes by heartrate. Today's run (and this is about 1 run a week) is interval training. It tells me to do threshold for 2 min and then 1 min rest (repeat 10 times). It asks me to stay under 173 bbm. Does this make any sense to anyone? When I go at threshold my hr is 180-185 and, while I understand the point of limiting my HR for my other weekly runs, should I be holding back on this type of training?
What is your HR max, and what % of max HR does this program want you running at for threshold?
As for "holding back", yes you should in the sense that a threshold run is not a time trial, so you are always holding yourself back during tempo runs as one doesn't do them at 5k pace.
HR isn't bad, but I'm a big fan of doing tempos by feel more than anything. The HR can help you find that right feel to some extent, and can give other useful data, but what you're looking for is that feeling of going fast and strong, but not straining to get through or feeling like you are working overly hard.
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I just started running 2 weeks ago (absolute beginner), but i already realized the benefits from it. I use a running app on my smartphone which helps me analyse my tempo and speed, but I'm so out of shape I want to start easy (with no injuries as a main goal).
I'm now running 3 times a week about 3.5 KM, and i want to improve my speed first, but I think it's hard to keep running this distance. I stop 2 times with a 2 minute walk and an overall speed of 9.5 km / hour.
I'm really looking forward to keep posting here and to keep improving. It's fun to read about the progress of other people here as well :-)
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I'm going from my self-imposed exile on the couch to the 12-mile Tough Mudder in less than two months.
Up until I used to swim three hours a day and run up and down the 40-50% incline hills outside the nearby football stadium as part of that practice, so it shouldn't be that bad. And since then, leg day's been helping a lot.
We'll see how it goes.
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I started running a short while ago and I'm a beginner in all aspects.
I bought new shoes today and the store was great, personal advice, analysis of my feet, video analysis on a treadmill and so on. I'm looking forward to tomorrow when I have the pleasure to do my first run with them. :-)
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United States24777 Posts
Someone at work who runs a lot told me running shoes, and footwear with arch support in general, can be bad because the arch is what absorbs impact, and when you support the arch it transfers the stress to your knees instead, where you don't want it. He said he runs in cheap crappy sneakers that don't provide arch support in order to prevent this, and has also used the foot-shaped weird shoes. Is there logic to his position?
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I also read an article about specialized footwear like running shoes, that they increases the amount of injuries. But that article stated that people get overconfident because of their specialized shoes.
Now i've googled it (so i'm not an expert), and it appears heavily debated if running shoes will help prevent or increase the amount of injuries. So my advice is to just stay very connected with your body, don't overdo it. Stop if you feel pain, and just increase your speed and mileage very slowly each week.
Also it's not a problem when you have a week of less impressive results..
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Can't really contribute to the thread much, but just wanted to say I've begun running to train for a 10km race in October with the wife (and her parents). She's a lot thinner than me, but at first she could barely run 500m without slowing to a walk. About 3-4 weeks later we are doing about 5.5 km without any walking. Gonna work up to 10 km then work on getting quicker at it, I suppose. Fun stuff, and it's nice to exercise together when I usually just lift weights alone. (Although in the past few months we've been biking together, too.) I'm impressed she's improved so rapidly.
Anyway, running is fun and I can feel the benefits in other areas of life for sure!
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On August 23 2014 06:21 micronesia wrote:
Someone at work who runs a lot told me running shoes, and footwear with arch support in general, can be bad because the arch is what absorbs impact, and when you support the arch it transfers the stress to your knees instead, where you don't want it. He said he runs in cheap crappy sneakers that don't provide arch support in order to prevent this, and has also used the foot-shaped weird shoes. Is there logic to his position?
There is logic to his argument, and here's why:
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ncpmAN5H22Y/UzVYWdb8x9I/AAAAAAAABVA/5bnaRgkLFho/s1600/HUW003.JPG)
This is the physics of an arch. The forces placed on an arch get dissipated down to the ground because of it's shape. The components (bricks, bones, etc) lock each other in when there's a downward force. In fact, as more pressure and force enters the equation, the arch gets stronger. This is why the Romans used arches for all of their massive projects such as the Colloseum or the aquaducts.
When you fill in the gap under the arch, the components rest on the filler and lose that necessary pressure on the inner wall of the arch. Without that pressure, the arch loses it's strongest structural integrity.
The point of all of that is because the foot is such a beautifully designed piece of nature. The foot is structured to become stronger the more it's used. Arch support came about because when someone stops running for a long time and then they go for a long run, their foot hurts. But the cause was never the arch, it's because the muscles and tendons were weakened from months or years of inactivity and they need time to strengthen. As with any weak body, a slow buildup of work will avoid injury.
I personally hate the idea of arch support because it's based on horrible science and completely ignores the foot's natural state. I would actually love to run in those vibram shoes because it puts the foot in it's most natural condition, but I have an extraneous issue that prevents me from doing that 
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I'm no expert in the field of arch support, but I do have some experience with vibrams that seems relevant here. If you buy a pair, especially the weird ones that have no padding and make your feet look like those of the Hulk, be very careful with easing into them. If you suddenly start doing all your miles with them, you'll boost your risk of injury substantially. If you've worn padded shoes all your life, your body needs time to adjust to shoes with basically no padding.
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I wholeheartedly second Bonham's post (above). Be VERY careful when you are beginning to run in any sort of minimalist training shoes.
I personally think that a bit of cushion is actually really important. As "beautifully designed" as our feet and legs are, running for long periods of time on pavement and asphalt WILL do damage if a) you don't build up the mileage carefully or b) your shoes aren't helping absorb some of the shock. Pick good running surfaces, no matter which shoes you have on, and listen to your body to decide how much mileage is right.
I ran in fairly minimalist shoes (NB M730's) for about 2 years until this Spring when my Achilles gave out. I was running at sea level, too fast, and on pavement for days in a row while visiting friends so I can't say if it was the mileage, the surface, or the shoe. Coming back from this injury, though, I know that I was having a lot of pain and setbacks when running normal/short distances in the minimalist shoes vs some nicely padded shoes I purchased soon afterward.
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EPT
