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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Zf8WHWp.jpg) MAYWEATHER vs ALVAREZ Junior Middleweight Championship Bout For [WBA (Super), WBC Super Welterweight & The Ring Junior Middleweight titles] Official Weights: Floyd Mayweather Jr., 150.5 lbs. | Saul Alvarez, 152 lbs. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IvY7dB2.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/piSxiic.jpg) GARCIA vs MATTHYSSE Junior Welterweight Championship Bout For [WBA (Super), WBC Super Lightweight & The Ring Junior Welterweight titles] Official Weights: Danny Garcia, 140 lbs. | Lucas Matthysse, 140 lbs. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eZMlRtv.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/E6MVaKh.jpg) | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
Poll: Who wins the Mayweather - Alvarez fight and how? Mayweather by decision (Wide) (8) Mayweather by KO/TKO (2) Alvarez by KO/TKO (2) Mayweather by decision (Close) (1) Alvarez by decision (Wide) (1) Draw (1) DQ (Specify) (1) Alvarez by decision (Close) (0) 16 total votes Your vote: Who wins the Mayweather - Alvarez fight and how? (Vote): Mayweather by decision (Close) Poll: Who wins the Garcia - Matthysse fight and how? Garcia by decision (Close) (2) Matthysse by KO/TKO (1) DQ (Specify) (1) Garcia by decision (Wide) (0) Garcia by KO/TKO (0) Matthysse by decision (Close) (0) Matthysse by decision (Wide) (0) Draw (0) 4 total votes Your vote: Who wins the Garcia - Matthysse fight and how? (Vote): Garcia by decision (Close) | ||
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Heartscry
United Kingdom291 Posts
Mayweather by decision for me, close in score but ahead on all three judges' cards. | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
(I'll post my own thoughts tomorrow, just got done driving 16 hours but I was so hyped about the fight, I had to make the post before I crashed.) | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
We're less than 5 hours away from this action packed card from getting started. I'm getting more excited and I'm just about ready to start the grill and bring out the drinks. I'm a fan of all these fighters so it makes picking hard, but until we see the fight and the outcome, we've got to make judgment based on we've seen previously from these fighters. Mayweather - Canelo; It's on its way to being the biggest fight in boxing since De La Hoya - Mayweather. Floyd, the P4P King, is fighting rising superstar, Canelo Alvarez. What it comes down to is a case of Canelo's youth and size advantage versus Floyd's skills and experience. Canelo has the age factor in his favor. I'm actually pretty interested in how much weight he's actually gonna go up for this bout. Admittedly, he looked good at the weigh-in whereas at the 7-day check, I thought he was gonna have problems skirting off an additional 5.4 lbs. Supposedly Canelo looked tired after the weigh-in which could be a result of having to hit that 152 limit - but alas, that's just speculation. I don't know if it's a good idea for him to be blowing up 15-20 lbs overnight leading into the fight either. It could leave him sluggish, which would be counterintuitive to Team Canelo's suggestions that they're going to utilize Canelo's handspeed. Canelo does indeed have good handspeed, and he puts together great combinations with that handspeed, but if he shoots up too much weight, it could have an effect on that. He'll probably come in anywhere from 167-170 giving him a notable size and strength advantage. Can he use that size advantage effectively against Mayweather though? He's going to need to put him to the ropes, corner him and then go to work - that's how Canelo likes to fight. He will need to cut off the ring though, which is a problem because his footwork/speed is not one of his stronger points. I think I recall Canelo saying that he's going to try to outthink and outbox Floyd. If he tries that approach, well, Mayweather's advantages will come into play and we're in for victim #45. Canelo outboxing Floyd is something hard for me to imagine. Disregarding Floyd's genius-level boxing IQ, physically, Mayweather has the tools to outbox Canelo with ease. He's taller, has a freakish long reach for his height, slightly faster hands, and as proven from the fight with Guerrero, impeccable footwork. I've seen a lot of people who are picking Canelo to win this fight saying, "Well you can't outrun Father Time forever." Well, Floyd turned back the clock for his last fight and looked like he hadn't missed a beat. Until we see a drastic decline in ability from Floyd in a fight, I think that "he's getting old" argument needs to be put to rest. One thing that Floyd's opponents usually comment on, aside frmo his defense, is his timing. Floyd's ability to think in the ring, figure you out, and time you is his greatest asset. He has an uncanny ability to predict punches and fight at the right moment. That coupled with his physical advantages makes me think Canelo trying to play the boxing game with Floyd is a mistake. One thing I think a lot of people don't know or refuse to acknowledge is that Floyd is not weak or featherfisted either. Mosley has commented that Floyd is physically strong and punches hard. He's even gone as far as saying, in terms of punching power, he believes both Floyd and Canelo to be roughly even in that area. I mean, if you look at most of Floyd's opponents at the end of the fight, you can tell they were in a fight - they're usually cut, bruised, or swollen. You don't see anyone walk through Floyd's punches either; they often freeze up when they get hit. So why doesn't Floyd have more knockouts? His hands are susceptible to injury. It's a problem he's hand through his career. He also doesn't plant his feet and sit on his shots, putting all his weight into them. He maintains balance and fires off quick, accurate punches and wears his opponents down. Many people, including the late Emanuel Steward, have said if Floyd threw combinations he'd be finishing every fight in TKO/KO fashion. One last thing I'd like to mention when discussing Floyd's defense. Everyone knows his defense is enigmatic. He has the highest +/- recorded on Compubox for punches connected/opponent's punches connected by a wide margin. The one punch that he's susceptible to though is the jab. Cotto utilized it to great effectiveness; when De La Hoya was using it, it was working well - so that means Canelo could utilize that too, right? Well sure, he can, but understand that Cotto and De La Hoya have amazing jabs. It is recognized as one of their best punches, along with Cotto's left hook. Canelo's jab, while strong, is not on that level. You also have to look at why Floyd gets hit with jabs. He chooses to get hit with it, that's why. With Floyd's defense, against an orthodox fighter, he holds his right glove up against his face to guard against the left hook. The left hook is a big knockout tool for a lot of people. Floyd chooses to hold his glove there to protect against it over worrying about the jab too much. In order for Canelo to win this fight, I think he needs to get rough and dirty. He needs to make it a gruelling dog fight, and not try to play chess with a grandmaster. I'm not sure at this point in his career he's ready to do just that. Personally, I think Canelo took this fight 1.5-2 years too early. A lot of people seem to be hoping Canelo just straight up knocks Mayweather out, which is obviously a possibility, anything can happen in boxing. Consider this though, Canelo couldn't finish off Matthew Hatton or Austin Trout, both of whom are nowhere near Floyd's level. Floyd has historically a good chin too, and shown excellent recovery and decision making when he is hurt or stunned. One thing he can take advantage of is that Floyd doesn't throw a lot of punches. He can try and outwork Floyd, but he's going to need to try to do that every minute of every round. That will be an issue though, because Canelo doesn't have the greatest stamina. I thought that he looked gassed in his fighter against Austin Trout (which I believe he lost 115-114) and if he gassed against Trout, it's not going to get any better against Mayweather. The catchweight can also play a role in his stamina issues. I think he needs to come out of the gate hot and establish himself in the first three rounds. He will need to find a way to cut the ring, hold Mayweather down and work the body hard. If he can't hurt Floyd within the first 3 rounds, it's gonna be a long night because round 4 is when the download is complete. Floyd will start pulling away in round 4 and by round 8, he'll be running on all cylinders. One thing I failed to mention is that this is the fastest turnaround Floyd has had for consecutive fights in years. He's likely going to be better than he was in the Guerrero fight which was a masterful performance of its own. All that said, I think Floyd has an easier fight than a lot of people are expecting. I think Canelo has the tools needed for a good fight, but I don't think he can fight hard for all 3 minutes of all 12 rounds. Right now, his stamina leaves something to be desired. Floyd's experience and skills will just confuse and frustrate him. He's going to be falling into traps he doesn't see/expect and the gameplan will go out the window. I'm going with a bold prediction here, Mayweather by 11th round TKO. I'm not gonna write all that for Garcia - Matthysse. We're just gonna enjoy a straight up, good fight. I think people might be expecting a shootout between the two, but I think Danny will smartly box his way to a close UD. Matthysse is a beast, but Danny is a monster in his own right. I think he's underrated and the kid just finds ways to win. I think he will be able to weather the Argentinian storm and come out on top. That said, a Matthysse KO victory is in no way surprising. Anyway, enjoy the fights everyone! I'll probably be around the boards for the fight. Hope to see more people here. TL;DR: Mayweather 11th round TKO / Garcia close UD. Anything can happen in boxing though! Get hyped! | ||
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fbs
United Kingdom2476 Posts
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Protocon
United States255 Posts
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
On September 15 2013 10:05 Protocon wrote: Can anyone refer me to a nice, reliable, non-scammy livestream link for the fight? Much appreciated. usually use vipbox.tv within a VM & Firefox w/ Adblock & No Script | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 10:04 fbs wrote: what time roughly will round 1 be? GMT The main event will probably start anywhere from 04:30-05:00 GMT. Garcia-Matthysse maybe an hour before that. This is just a guess though, I'll mention when the fights start so if you stay tuned into the thread, you won't miss it. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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fbs
United Kingdom2476 Posts
On September 15 2013 10:07 fishbowl wrote: The main event will probably start anywhere from 04:30-05:00 GMT. Garcia-Matthysse maybe an hour before that. This is just a guess though, I'll mention when the fights start so if you stay tuned into the thread, you won't miss it. Thanks. I'm going to bed for a couple of hours then! | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 10:08 cLutZ wrote: How the hell did floyd get the weight lowered? Shouldnt this be a huge scandal? Not a scandal, a catchweight which was negotiated between the two camps. Both Canelo and Floyd's camp agreed to the 152 lbs limit. They believe that they could make the weight easily and it would give Canelo "more speed". Well... the last time a high profile boxer agreed to going down to a weight they could "comfortably make" was Chad Dawson, when he fought Andre Ward. Let's just say that didn't go well at all. I don't like that they're fighting at a catchweight, but Canelo and co. agreed to it. I think they should have just held out and waited. One, he needs more experience; two, he's the best paycheck for Floyd left. He would have gotten the fight eventually. They just caved and gave away an advantage day one. | ||
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Protocon
United States255 Posts
On September 15 2013 10:06 udgnim wrote: usually use vipbox.tv within a VM & Firefox w/ Adblock & No Script Thank you kind sir. Nice quality as well. | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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BenKen
United States860 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 15 2013 10:13 fishbowl wrote: Not a scandal, a catchweight which was negotiated between the two camps. Both Canelo and Floyd's camp agreed to the 152 lbs limit. They believe that they could make the weight easily and it would give Canelo "more speed". Well... the last time a high profile boxer agreed to going down to a weight they could "comfortably make" was Chad Dawson, when he fought Andre Ward. Let's just say that didn't go well at all. I don't like that they're fighting at a catchweight, but Canelo and co. agreed to it. I think they should have just held out and waited. One, he needs more experience; two, he's the best paycheck for Floyd left. He would have gotten the fight eventually. They just caved and gave away an advantage day one. Ahh, ok. During weigh ins the announcers made it seemed like Mayweather changed the weight last minute. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
On September 15 2013 11:48 Quanticfograw wrote: any place to watch this online for free? Read like 8 posts up... | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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SwARmZzz
Canada193 Posts
I mean there are so many weight classes, super this, super that, unified this, unified that + so many different leagues that I just can't keep up with all these belts... | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 12:14 SwARmZzz wrote: Do belts really mean anything in boxing? I mean there are so many weight classes, super this, super that, unified this, unified that + so many different leagues that I just can't keep up with all these belts... There are indeed way too many ABC belts in boxing. That's an acknowledged problem. There are some belts that are held in higher esteem than others, but at the same time, you've got the WBC and similar organizations who favor certain fighters, create belts for convenience, strip champions for convenience. You've also got the organizations saying you can't hold my belt if you've got someone else's, etc. It's dumb and having all these belts and organizations just confuses any new viewers and even veteran boxing fans alike. Unified champions hold multiple belts and is usually a good way to identify the kingpin of any division. | ||
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
Just a heads up, I hardly follow boxing, just tuning in for the event for Mayweather/Alvarez. | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 12:29 SynC[gm] wrote: Garcia vs Matthysse look like they're throwing with power... The previous fights didn't really seem as paced as this one does. Just a heads up, I hardly follow boxing, just tuning in for the event for Mayweather/Alvarez. Both guys are big punchers - Matthysse more than Garcia. Most people are expecting this fight to end in KO. Danny is boxing well right now though and just had a good round. Matthysse needs to turn it up. | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
Also, in a situation where Boxer A lands few power punches, but Boxer B lands several jabs/crosses, who would win the round? | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 12:37 SynC[gm] wrote: Might seem like a stupid question, but why do the boxers clinch if the ref is going to break it up as soon as it happens? Just for a brief break? Also, in a situation where Boxer A lands few power punches, but Boxer B lands several jabs/crosses, who would win the round? Boxers clinch for several reasons: to break up the action; slow down the momentum; catch a breather, etc. As for your second question, that's really subjective. Different judges look for different things, I think judging ring generalship - that is controlling the ring, setting the pace - is the best criteria along with effective aggression. | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
Edit: Wow, Matthysse's corner did mad work on that eye. Looks way better than it did two rounds ago. Edit 2: Now it's back swollen. Endswell can only do so much. And we have an official KD for Garcia! | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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SynC[gm]
United States3127 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 15 2013 12:42 fishbowl wrote: Boxers clinch for several reasons: to break up the action; slow down the momentum; catch a breather, etc. As for your second question, that's really subjective. Different judges look for different things, I think judging ring generalship - that is controlling the ring, setting the pace - is the best criteria along with effective aggression. Judge's really love whatever Floyd does. I don't think I've seen him throw a punch that had KO potential in 5 years, but they keep scoring rounds for him because he does...something. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
garcia might've won but I got mad respect for matthyse | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
EDIT: Downtime for the Canelo-Mayweather fight? | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:02 cLutZ wrote: Judge's really love whatever Floyd does. I don't think I've seen him throw a punch that had KO potential in 5 years, but they keep scoring rounds for him because he does...something. He is a master of ring generalship. He takes away his opponent's best weapons, then systematically punishes them. He doesn't have one hit KO power, but he still busts his opponents faces up. If he wasn't hurting his opponents with his punches, they would simply walk through his punches and not give a fuck. See someone like Paulie Malignaggi. Paulie has excellent boxing skills but he really has no power and you can see it in the way opponents just don't respect his punches. | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
Main event up next, should be a good one. Hoping for a Canelo ko, but it won't happen... just hoping for a unanimous decision win.. split decision might make things weird. | ||
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HotGlueGun
United States1409 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:10 fishbowl wrote: Good fight. I knew that Danny would tough it out and find a way to win. Matthysse had a great showing though and his corner did great work keeping him in the fight with that swollen eye. Now we're onto the main event. He is a master of ring generalship. He takes away his opponent's best weapons, then systematically punishes them. He doesn't have one hit KO power, but he still busts his opponents faces up. If he wasn't hurting his opponents with his punches, they would simply walk through his punches and not give a fuck. See someone like Paulie Malignaggi. Paulie has excellent boxing skills but he really has no power and you can see it in the way opponents just don't respect his punches. I didn't say he isn't elite, especially elite speed. But he has won a lot of fights that I thought he lost. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:22 HotGlueGun wrote: We need a "bad" guy like Mayweather in SC2. It kinda used to be IdrA way back in the day but he never dominated like Mayweather. Maybe Acer can turn Innovation into a cocky showman Mayweather has mellowed out in recent years. Adrien Broner is fulfilling that role now. | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:23 CorsairHero wrote: is this floyd's toughest fight ever? We'll see after the fight. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:24 fishbowl wrote: Mayweather has mellowed out in recent years. Adrien Broner is fulfilling that role now. Was he the guy with the capped teeth and bow tie? Because I disliked him on sight. EDIT: WTF BIEBER??!?! | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:26 AgentW wrote: Was he the guy with the capped teeth and bow tie? Because I disliked him on sight. Sounds like an accurate description. I didn't see the crowd shots, but I heard his name so you've probably got the right guy. That is unless Denzel recently had a makeover. Edit: Lil Wayne again, Floyd?  | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:28 fishbowl wrote: Sounds like an accurate description. I didn't see the crowd shots, but I heard his name so you've probably got the right guy. That is unless Denzel recently had a makeover. Edit: Lil Wayne again, Floyd? He was massively overdressed and looked very full of himself. I think it was him. Lil Wayne, LOL? This with Bieber is too much. EDIT: If Floyd Mayweather isn't broke by the time he's 55, I'll be stunned. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:31 xDaunt wrote: Ok, I haven't seen a boxing match for a while. What happened to Michael Buffer? He works for HBO. GBP and HBO brokeup and is now dating Showtime. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:31 xDaunt wrote: Ok, I haven't seen a boxing match for a while. What happened to Michael Buffer? I was just about to ask the same thing. Maybe this guy is from Showtime? I have no idea. EDIT: Wait, I thought HBO and Showtime were affiliated as channels. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:33 AgentW wrote: Wait, how does he have so many matches only at 23 years old? That seems very young. He doesn't have an extensive amateur background like a lot of other boxers. He only has ~20 amateur fights and turned pro at 15, which is extremely young. | ||
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Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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DaPyro
Serbia131 Posts
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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Zen5034
United States384 Posts
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:43 AgentW wrote: Is it just me, or does it seem like Mayweather is keeping his front arm down? Is this tactical? I have to assume it is. That's his defensive style. Right hand protecting the chin, left arm protecting the body, and rolling with the punches. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:43 AgentW wrote: Is it just me, or does it seem like Mayweather is keeping his front arm down? Is this tactical? I have to assume it is. He always use that half guard. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:44 fishbowl wrote: That's his defensive style. Right hand protecting the chin, left arm protecting the body, and rolling with the punches. Ah okay. To my untrained eye, it looked kind of silly, but that makes a lot of sense. Would that indicate a defensive style then? | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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Zen5034
United States384 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:46 AgentW wrote: Ah okay. To my untrained eye, it looked kind of silly, but that makes a lot of sense. Would that indicate a defensive style then? Well it's generally known as the Philly Shell. It's more reserved for slick fighters as opposed to something like a high guard, keeping both your hands up in front. You'll see Floyd switch between the two for different occasions and just to give his opponents different looks. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:49 fishbowl wrote: Well it's generally known as the Philly Shell. It's more reserved for slick fighters as opposed to something like a high guard, keeping both your hands up in front. You'll see Floyd switch between the two for different occasions and just to give his opponents different looks. Okay, thanks for the information. EDIT: Damn, Mayweather's quick. | ||
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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HotGlueGun
United States1409 Posts
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caelym
United States6421 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 13:52 udgnim wrote: are punches actually landing or are commentators just over reacting to punches that are either being defended or just glances? It's often a little bit both. Punches actually landing and some being guarded. You'll see Floyd roll punches too, those are technically connecting but they're having little to no effect. It's hard to see punches as a commentator sitting ringside too, especially depending on the angle the fighters are at. Edit: Canelo is trying to fight too clean of a fight. He needs to make this an ugly street fight. Use that big body, bully Floyd and try to tire Floyd. Work the body, slow him. This isn't working at all. | ||
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SkyTheUnknown
Germany2065 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
Edit: Floyd working that jab through the guard. Beautiful. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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caelym
United States6421 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:03 caelym wrote: It seems like Mayweather plain out-conditions Canelo. He's active and moving and jabbing. Canelo looks really slow... That's what happens when you miss a ton more shots | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:07 zulu_nation8 wrote: so is it at all realistic to see mayweather fight someone like sergio martinez or golovkin after this? Maybe Sergio, but definitely not GGG. He's too big. Edit: Although Floyd does spar with middleweights and super middleweights. I dunno, if the money's right, who knows. He's got 4 more fights left on his contract. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:08 xDaunt wrote: Well, shit. If this is how most of Mayweather's fights have gone, no wonder he's still fighting so well at 36. No one ever hits him that hard. I listened to a podcast with Bill Simmons and the owner of Canelo's gym (the guy who directed Friday Night Lights), and Simmons postulated that Mayweather's fighting so well so late in his career because he doesn't have much mileage on him because he doesn't get whacked much. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:10 AgentW wrote: I listened to a podcast with Bill Simmons and the owner of Canelo's gym (the guy who directed Friday Night Lights), and Simmons postulated that Mayweather's fighting so well so late in his career because he doesn't have much mileage on him because he doesn't get whacked much. Yep, Floyd has a ton of fights, but he's taken very little punishment over his career. Another contributor to his longevity is that he doesn't drink alcohol or do drugs. He stays in shape and in the gym year round. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:12 fishbowl wrote: Yep, Floyd has a ton of fights, but he's taken very little punishment over his career. Another contributor to his longevity is that he doesn't drink alcohol or do drugs. He stays in shape and in the gym year round. Honestly can't believe mayweather doesn't drink or do drugs. | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:11 zulu_nation8 wrote: So who would be the toughest guy Mayweather can fight after this? Would winning against Sergio be more legitimate than winning vs Pacquiao at this point? Tbh, I thought Canelo to be the toughest opponent he'd realistically fight. I do think Canelo took this fight 2 years too early though. I think he's a great talent but he's definitely got a lot of work ahead of him. We'll see how Pac looks after his fight with Brandon Rios this November. It could still be an interesting fight. I'd like to see how Sergio looks next year though. I didn't like how he looked against Martin Murray. He had surgery prior to that fight, and then reinjured himself. If he's the Sergio of old, that's still a great fight to be made too. On September 15 2013 14:15 Itsmedudeman wrote: Honestly can't believe mayweather doesn't drink or do drugs. People may not like him as a person, but he is a true professional when it comes to boxing. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:15 Itsmedudeman wrote: Honestly can't believe mayweather doesn't drink or do drugs. I had him pegged as a coke addict or something lol | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
I didn't even think that canelo won a round I just don't understand why Mayweather is scared of Pacquiao when he got the skills to beat every boxer in the planet. His defense is the one of the most perfect defense in the history of boxing together with his IQ, quickness and counter-punching and his ability to adapt to his opponent' style inside the ring. He maybe not a strong puncher but his boxing abilities are the one that takes his opponents to school. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:15 fishbowl wrote: Tbh, I thought Canelo to be the toughest opponent he'd realistically fight. I do think Canelo took this fight 2 years too early though. I think he's a great talent but he's definitely got a lot of work ahead of him. We'll see how Pac looks after his fight with Brandon Rios this November. It could still be an interesting fight. I'd like to see how Sergio looks next year though. I didn't like how he looked against Martin Murray. He had surgery prior to that fight, and then reinjured himself. If he's the Sergio of old, that's still a great fight to be made too. People may not like him as a person, but he is a true professional when it comes to boxing. What would be the toughest unrealistic fight? Broner? | ||
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:19 zulu_nation8 wrote: What would be the toughest unrealistic fight? Broner? I dunno, Andre Ward? That'd definitely be a chess match between two grand masters. Broner I think has a few holes in his game that he'd need to patch up. I thought he got hit a little too much by Paulie. If that was someone who had some power, who knows how the fight would have played out. I'm interested in seeing if Broner can adapt to a world class opponent who has his respect. Speaking of Broner, he's gonna be fighting Maidana. That could be an either extremely exciting fight, or a speed mismatch. Probably the latter, but Maidana does have that power to really test Broner's chin and will to win. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
Martinez is out. I don't think Mayweather will move up that much weigh so late in his career. Martinez ain't gonna move down either and even a catchweight would be too much for either of them. Aside, any answers for Mayweather has to come from guys of the lower weigh classes. Bigger guys don't have the speed, and if they have to fight catchweight they won't have the stamina either. He's too efficient. | ||
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:23 O-ops wrote: Pac still trying to wake up from getting knocked the fuck out by the guy Money toyed around with, so i don't imagine that fight being to attractive to Mayweather. Actually, I'm not sure it has the same attraction to anyone else anymore. Martinez is out. I don't think Mayweather will move up that much weigh so late in his career. Martinez ain't gonna move down either and even a catchweight would be too much for either of them. Aside, any answers for Mayweather has to come from guys of the lower weigh classes. Bigger guys don't have the speed, and if they have to fight catchweight they won't have the stamina either. He's too efficient. I'm just thinking fantasy fight  Not anyone giving weight advantages. Rigo might make an interesting fight to Floyd too in a fantasy match. He's a master in his own right. In the weight classes Mayweather sits in though, I don't really see anymore challenges.Edit: You know, if Khan had a chin, that could be an excellent fight. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
mayweather's face. LOL same judge that judged bradley > pacqiao. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
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N1k0
Uruguay1075 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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MiQ
Canada312 Posts
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Blardy
United States290 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:28 Blardy wrote: I thought it would've been a draw. So close but whatever. Wut All work is ez work stay free Canelo | ||
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SkyTheUnknown
Germany2065 Posts
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s4rk
Philippines137 Posts
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:28 MiQ wrote: Goddamn that fight almost put me to sleep. No wonder UFC is taking over, that was dreadful Yeah, I find UFC to be more interesting than boxing. The technique in boxing just isn't a replacement for sheer savagery in terms of entertainment value. | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
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Nitan
United States3401 Posts
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:30 xDaunt wrote: Yeah, I find UFC to be more interesting than boxing. The technique in boxing just isn't a replacement for sheer savagery in terms of entertainment value. I prefer the UFC as well strictly because of the brutality... but I won't lie, I like watching Mayweather fight... I'd prefer watching Mayweather than say GSP fight... both are defensive fighters that normally go the distance for the win, but with Money at the very least you see some swift action and some nice jabs... with GSP it's just him laying on top of someone for 5 rounds. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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caelym
United States6421 Posts
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fishbowl
United States1575 Posts
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:31 Nitan wrote: It's kind of sad that people can't appreciate Floyd's supreme speed and skill. Watching him work is really impressive. yes, you may not want his personality but his work ethic and and boxing abilities are the most impressive ones. And he takes a great fighter straight to the school. That Canelo guy has some real talents but his talents was dispersed right in front of Mayweather. Now the only doubt about Mayweather are fighting Pac but I see Mayweather putting a boxing clinic out of Pac. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:31 Nitan wrote: It's kind of sad that people can't appreciate Floyd's supreme speed and skill. Watching him work is really impressive. Agreed. That fight was real enjoyable. And it's not Lyoto Machida's kind of backpedal boring either. It's kind of devastation in its own way. Who else could make his opponent looks like they want to sit at a corner and not want to fight with like 5 light punches a round? Look at that fight just now. Canelo was like WTF for more than half the fight and by the time he realized he had to move forward he already spent enough he gassed after 2 round of pushing it. | ||
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tribulator
774 Posts
Still laughing from the judge who gave that a draw. Would love to see him explain that over some tape of the fight. | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
She's dumb. | ||
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:39 tribulator wrote: It was cool to see Mayweathers still got the insane speed and ability to predict... but I felt it was a bit of a snoozer. Canelo brought nothing into that ring. Still laughing from the judge who gave that a draw. Would love to see him explain that over some tape of the fight. "It's not my fault I can make A- and B-level fighters look like D-level fighters" Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mma/news/20130712/floyd-mayweather-saul-canelo-alvarez-interview/#ixzz2ewCj7f92 | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
On September 15 2013 14:39 tribulator wrote: It was cool to see Mayweathers still got the insane speed and ability to predict... but I felt it was a bit of a snoozer. Canelo brought nothing into that ring. Still laughing from the judge who gave that a draw. Would love to see him explain that over some tape of the fight. CJ Ross is a chick | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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romanianthunder
Romania36 Posts
Despite this he put a good fight to mayweather and showed some of mayweathers flaws. First of, to start off with the mayweather, was grocely overhyped and overscored by the showtime commentators.The fight was much closer than the commentators made it out to be.This is a good contrast to what larry merchant used to do to floydie at hbo but still mayweather had at least 4 difficult rounds in the fight that could have been a draw so the 119 scorecards are good for toilet paper. Remember this was a low punch volume fight and in this type of situations the guy who manages to lead the agression and land heavier blows gets more credit from some judges and alvarez in many rounds landed heavy blows.He may have been some 10 punches behind floydie but he did land heavy blows which explain the judges a bit low scoring for mayweather.Also most of the fight alvarez was leading the agression. One thing to notice is that alvarez landed most of the body shots on floyd.It was too bad he didnt land them in a higher number but floyd could not avoid being hit to the body and that was a tactic many boxing experts thought was one of the few weaknesses to floyd.Pacqauio and other quicker fighters can exploit that weakness.Second when alvarez threw combinations at least one punch hit and floyd despite shoulder rolling and bobbing and weaving could not defend all the punches.Pacquaio which is a lot faster than alvarez and throws way more punches cold also take advantage. But in the end that was all canelo had in his favor.Hew lacked many important ingredients:punch volume,speed,body motion,footwork(he was eating way too many easy punches etc).He had the right idea on how to beat floyd but needed to work more on his defense.Also he failed to use his weight and superior reach(notice that many long ranged jabs and straight rights actually landed to the body of floyd). Floyd showed superb defense as always and even great footwork which he lacked in the mosley fight.Still he is a very poor puncher and could not hurt alvarez too much despite what the commentators were yelling.I scored the bout at 117 to something for floydie.He landed a bit mor ethna alvarez but many of the punches were a bit softer.But then again he was meeting a much bigger guy so maybe that is why he coukd not rock him. I would love to see a mathyesse-floyd.I like how mathyesse fights. As a general conclussion to the fight:canello really needs more technical elements to his style.He literally is a 3 trick poney while mayweather could introduce some offensive features for the fans. Btw if you are looking for brutality and savagery mayweather fights are the worst ones to atch.mayweather has built a reputation of not getting hit.If you want savagery check out fights such as delahoya mosley,pacquaio-marquez,coralles-castillo,gatti-ward,most of tysons early fights,most of george foremans early fights,chavez-taylor etc on youtube.there you can see big ko's and brutal boxing at its finest. | ||
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vik7
United States227 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
And could you stop hyping pacman. The guy is done. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 15 2013 16:12 Itsmedudeman wrote: The thing I'm most impressed by is mayweathers intelligence. For someone who's perceived as a thug he really knows a shit ton about boxing and fights incredibly smart in the ring. Yep, he's just on a different level, ridiculously calm and cool in the ring with incredible ability to coldly assess his opponents. Probably comes from a lifetime of good training and being schooled from a young age with lessons that most boxers take ages to learn or never even learn. Didn't see the fight but was predicting a points win for Money May. He has a crappy attitude much of the time but his ability isn't found wanting when it matters. Now, unfortunately, we have to dissect the effect this has for his legacy. Yes, he beat an unbeaten Mexican star but that star was only 23 and has never looked like the 'finished article', just a person with a certain amount of intensity and guts (as is the par for Mexicans and as was the case with Ortiz). Unfortunately, Money May has never been tested by the same standard of fighters (at least at the top level) as the 4 kings from the 80's. While I think he would make easy work of Duran I can't easily say he would beat Leonard or Hearns (perhaps Hagler is just too heavy to consider) but then again, neither of them ever looked as untouchable as PBF. I really wish he had been able to dance with Pacquiao earlier on but even then, is Pac man really of the caliber of the aforementioned fighters? Unfortunately I think not. Regardless of the dearth that appears to have existed throughout May's career of actually top level legit opponents with legit experience, he has battered everyone who has stepped up and also made an unbelievable amount of money. So he can't ever be considered to have lost out. But I just wonder if you really can rank him above Sugar and the Hitman. Actually you probably can rank him above Hearns but in considering who would win a fight between them I'm not so sure PBF's chin is as strong as Leonard's although he does seem to have a lot of heart like Leonard. The sort of heart that's like 'I am not going to lose to this chump!' rather than the standard Rocky heart lol. On September 15 2013 14:30 xDaunt wrote: Yeah, I find UFC to be more interesting than boxing. The technique in boxing just isn't a replacement for sheer savagery in terms of entertainment value. Been a fan of UFC for years, made a collection of UFCs 1-120. Watched all the Pride too. Three responses to this. Firstly, I think I like a lot of people reach a point where the pure savagery mostly stops being interesting. Secondly, there isn't even much savagery in modern UFC fights, especially from the top guys. Thirdly, most of the technique on display in the UFC is of secondary quality to the pure versions of the sports it's made up of, so it's kind of hard to enjoy from a technical standpoint unless you actually are actively participating in the sport. The messiness, a clear result of the need to mix them all up and of the fact that the sport is still incredibly young, makes the spectacle unappealing. Boxing has had since the 1850's and earlier to be refined and passed down from generation to generation. Unfortunately, MMA really shows how much it lacks this. It's just an impure sport at the moment and lacks the class of boxing when it is practiced at the top levels. Then again, the fact that you see matches like Haye v Fury shows you can't escape the allure of the freak show when it comes knocking. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On September 15 2013 16:12 Itsmedudeman wrote: The thing I'm most impressed by is mayweathers intelligence. For someone who's perceived as a thug he really knows a shit ton about boxing and fights incredibly smart in the ring. And could you stop hyping pacman. The guy is done. As pointless as a pacquio vs mayweather is now, it probably the only fight left that stands questioned. I mean seriously...who is there left to fight for mayweather? It pretty sad but it probably for the best that pacquio get spared from this fight, I think it would be pretty one sided unless pacquio lands some good shots but Mayweather defense is just too damn good. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
And, honestly I hear what you are saying sc4k, but the reason that MMA is not "refined" like boxing, is because boxing, from a combat POV, is borderline retarded. Moreover, technical fighters like Floyd and the Klitchkos have mad the sport into the "meh" it is today. Basically, by allowing Mayweather to consistently win on points, without even getting a knockdown, he has been given a loophole in the rules. Its as if the Patriots build a robot that got 3 yards per carry, 100% of the time without fumbling. They would never not get a first down, would score on every drive, but it wouldnt be satisfying in the least bit. | ||
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s4rk
Philippines137 Posts
On September 15 2013 17:30 cLutZ wrote: Pacquio has actually gotten old. If they had fought in 2008... And, honestly I hear what you are saying sc4k, but the reason that MMA is not "refined" like boxing, is because boxing, from a combat POV, is borderline retarded. Moreover, technical fighters like Floyd and the Klitchkos have mad the sport into the "meh" it is today. Basically, by allowing Mayweather to consistently win on points, without even getting a knockdown, he has been given a loophole in the rules. Its as if the Patriots build a robot that got 3 yards per carry, 100% of the time without fumbling. They would never not get a first down, would score on every drive, but it wouldnt be satisfying in the least bit. Same as how wrestlers grind out wins in MMA? | ||
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nicknack
Australia189 Posts
On September 15 2013 20:37 s4rk wrote: Same as how wrestlers grind out wins in MMA? Yer lay'n'pray and points boxing is meh to watch, but there is heaps of skill involved in pinned people down and controlling them as well as not getting hit and counter-punching like mayweather. I wonder how a Mayweather would go in UFC? I couldn't see him beating anyone in the 10 top UFC lightweight Pettis, Henderson, TJ Grant, Maynard, Diaz ,Nurmagomedov ect ect | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 15 2013 17:30 cLutZ wrote: Moreover, technical fighters like Floyd and the Klitchkos have mad the sport into the "meh" it is today. Basically, by allowing Mayweather to consistently win on points, without even getting a knockdown, he has been given a loophole in the rules. Its as if the Patriots build a robot that got 3 yards per carry, 100% of the time without fumbling. They would never not get a first down, would score on every drive, but it wouldnt be satisfying in the least bit. Meh, I kind of see what you're saying. But also I disagree...it's more about the fact that PBF has existed in a time where there wasn't a top competitor for him to face. He just outclasses everyone. If he had to fight someone like Sweet Pea or the Hitman, then you would get to see his ability tested to a point of sheer exhilaration and entertainment. A big problem in this match for example is that Saul Alvarez decided to try and win by outboxing Money May which is bizarre and insane. Even at his age. He should have gone balls to the wall like JCC in Thunder and Lightning...if you want to see a match which pretty sums up the amazingness of boxing, it is certainly one of the best around - check it out Julio Cesar Chavez vs Iran Barkley if you want an incredible fight to watch... On September 15 2013 21:34 nicknack wrote: I wonder how a Mayweather would go in UFC? I couldn't see him beating anyone in the 10 top UFC lightweight Pettis, Henderson, TJ Grant, Maynard, Diaz ,Nurmagomedov ect ect If you just put May in the octagon right now...he would be destroyed by most of the fighters in the UFC at his weight. But that's like putting Usain Bolt in the 10,000 metres. | ||
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
On September 15 2013 21:34 nicknack wrote: Yer lay'n'pray and points boxing is meh to watch, but there is heaps of skill involved in pinned people down and controlling them as well as not getting hit and counter-punching like mayweather. I wonder how a Mayweather would go in UFC? I couldn't see him beating anyone in the 10 top UFC lightweight Pettis, Henderson, TJ Grant, Maynard, Diaz ,Nurmagomedov ect ect He would destroy them in a boxing fight. | ||
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nicknack
Australia189 Posts
On September 15 2013 21:37 KingAce wrote: He would destroy them in a boxing fight. What about a real fight? | ||
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romanianthunder
Romania36 Posts
On September 15 2013 21:35 sc4k wrote: Meh, I kind of see what you're saying. But also I disagree...it's more about the fact that PBF has existed in a time where there wasn't a top competitor for him to face. He just outclasses everyone. If he had to fight someone like Sweet Pea or the Hitman, then you would get to see his ability tested to a point of sheer exhilaration and entertainment. A big problem in this match for example is that Saul Alvarez decided to try and win by outboxing Money May which is bizarre and insane. Even at his age. He should have gone balls to the wall like JCC in Thunder and Lightning...if you want to see a match which pretty sums up the amazingness of boxing, it is certainly one of the best around - check it out Julio Cesar Chavez vs Iran Barkley if you want an incredible fight to watch... If you just put May in the octagon right now...he would be destroyed by most of the fighters in the UFC at his weight. But that's like putting Usain Bolt in the 10,000 metres. it takes technique to go balls to the wall as you say.being a fast,efficient knockout artist takes as much skill as being an defensive master.take tyson for example.look at all the arsenal he had in order to get on the inside of people and knock them out:bob and weaves,head movements,8 punch combos,uppercuts and left hooks,body movements.Thr fighters these days can go and try to be more aggresive but they do not have the knowledge to do so.Alvarez can not fight on the inside with mayweather even if he wanted and btw mayweather actually beat him on the inside in exchanges.His best shot would have been the long range punches to the body that actually brought him the most points in the game. Look at all the fighters that tried to bully mayweather on the inside and failed:hatton,de la hoya,ortz,cotto(he actually succeded a bit).They do not have any offensive technique.They just rush mayweather and he just backs off,side steps,shoulder rolls,and clinches them.They can land anything on the inside.Look on the other hand how frazier beat ali,one of the fastest fighters ever.Left hooks,fast body movements,staying out of hand range.Look at how the dudes these days tackle inside fighting:"Imma rush the head on your chest like we are in the nfl and push you around the ring without actually doing anything".Floyd is a tactical defense master and unless he meets a tactical offensive master he can fight the klitcos and still win. @nicknack There is no concept of real fight.If you are referring to a street fight the only rule is gangbang and guns>knife>any fighting style.Bring the mma heavyweight champ against me and give me a gun see how many seconds he lasts.Boxing and mma are different sports with different rules none of which are efficient on the streets. "And, honestly I hear what you are saying sc4k, but the reason that MMA is not "refined" like boxing, is because boxing, from a combat POV, is borderline retarded." Neah its just mma is grocely overhyped.The reason why boxing has such strict rules is because compared to mma and wrestling boxing is actually dangerous and people die or are left with permanent brain damage compared to mma where not that many people have died.The accumulation of hundreds of punches although not spectacular leads to permanent damage where in mma most of the fighting is on the gorund and far less strikes are thrown.If you wanna see what going in the boxing ring does just look at ali who developed parkinson after the first part of his career or meldrick taylor who was permanently brain damaged after the chavez fight.Since the 1980 more than 200 boxers died in the ring mostly because people hit very hard and referees tend to let the fight go on.In mma a chokehold or pyramid or ground fighting technique although painfull doesnt cause severe internal injuries and the number of actual strikes per match is far lower and far less powerful than in actual strike sports.In mma you do not even have time to land a combo the other guy just straight takes you to the ground and prevents you form hitting. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 15 2013 21:54 romanianthunder wrote: it takes technique to go balls to the wall as you say.being a fast,efficient knockout artist takes as much skill as being an defensive master.take tyson for example.look at all the arsenal he had in order to get on the inside of people and knock them out:bob and weaves,head movements,8 punch combos,uppercuts and left hooks,body movements.Thr fighters these days can go and try to be more aggresive but they do not have the knowledge to do so.Alvarez can not fight on the inside with mayweather even if he wanted and btw mayweather actually beat him on the inside in exchanges.His best shot would have been the long range punches to the body that actually brought him the most points in the game. Look at all the fighters that tried to bully mayweather on the inside and failed:hatton,de la hoya,ortz,cotto(he actually succeded a bit).They do not have any offensive technique.They just rush mayweather and he just backs off,side steps,shoulder rolls,and clinches them.They can land anything on the inside.Look on the other hand how frazier beat ali,one of the fastest fighters ever.Left hooks,fast body movements,staying out of hand range.Look at how the dudes these days tackle inside fighting:"Imma rush the head on your chest like we are in the nfl and push you around the ring without actually doing anything".Floyd is a tactical defense master and unless he meets a tactical offensive master he can fight the klitcos and still win. I take your points to a certain extent but I'm just saying Alvarez would have had a much better time trying to abuse his weight advantage and cutting off the ring more. Simply put, he may have had a tough time doing it, but he would have stood way more of a chance of winning than fighting the way he did, which was 0% chance. Also I was referring more to the spirit of JCC rather than the actual style because Saul has the physical stature to be able to fight more at mid range (also btw JCC was pretty good at fighting mid range). And just because those people you mentioned failed doesn't mean that their strategy was 'wrong' to beat PBF. Money May is competent against all styles, just like Leonard. The only way to stand with him is to be amazing and fight true to your ability. Unfortunately Canelo was probably not amazing enough and didn't do a strategy that allowed him to express as much as he might have been able to. But still, regardless of strategy I would only have given him a 15% chance of winning on account of his inferior skill, physical ability and lack of experience. Pretty much the same goes for Leonard or Hearns. Trying to work out how to beat them would drive you insane, you just have to go out there and try your best. Unfortunately Floyd has never had or has never had the opportunity to have a fight like Hearns Leonard I. Just about the talent who has been around at the time. | ||
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hoemuffin
United States72 Posts
On September 15 2013 17:30 cLutZ wrote: Pacquio has actually gotten old. If they had fought in 2008... And, honestly I hear what you are saying sc4k, but the reason that MMA is not "refined" like boxing, is because boxing, from a combat POV, is borderline retarded. Moreover, technical fighters like Floyd and the Klitchkos have mad the sport into the "meh" it is today. Basically, by allowing Mayweather to consistently win on points, without even getting a knockdown, he has been given a loophole in the rules. Its as if the Patriots build a robot that got 3 yards per carry, 100% of the time without fumbling. They would never not get a first down, would score on every drive, but it wouldnt be satisfying in the least bit. I've been a boxing fan most of my life, and been boxing for quite a while too. I do watch MMA occasionally, but I just don't appreciate the ground game, and most of the time I find myself cringing at how terrible their punches are - I get that its because they have to focus on other things, but it still makes it look ugly for me. Its just not for me. Any combat sport is pretty borderline retarded, if you want realism, you'd probably have a 3 on 1, or maybe give one guy a knife. I mean if I wanted brutality, I can watch all sorts of violence porn on the internet, I'm much more interested in skill and technique. I never understood the rationale behind learning MMA (or boxing) to defend yourself, it makes more sense to pack heat, a knife, or some non-lethal device and a good sense of awareness. If you do want a self defense martial art, something like Krav Maga that focuses on eye/groin attacks and permanent, crippling damage seems to make more sense to me, and replicate what "real life" combat probably looks like (i.e. multiple attackers, armed attackers, and not a direct confrontation). I love technical fighters, watching Sweet Pea and Willie Pep fights are my favorite things in the world. The sheer body control and precision to do that is nuts. Sure, your Hagler-Hearns/Gatti-Ward fights are fun to watch, but mind-games and technical skill are what make boxing fun. Just the way Mayweather throws that lead right of his is worth the price of admission, such great body control and technique. | ||
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hoemuffin
United States72 Posts
On September 15 2013 21:34 nicknack wrote: Yer lay'n'pray and points boxing is meh to watch, but there is heaps of skill involved in pinned people down and controlling them as well as not getting hit and counter-punching like mayweather. I wonder how a Mayweather would go in UFC? I couldn't see him beating anyone in the 10 top UFC lightweight Pettis, Henderson, TJ Grant, Maynard, Diaz ,Nurmagomedov ect ect I don't know that that's a meaningful comparison. Just like I doubt any of those UFC guys could hang with Mayweather in the boxing ring, they're training for two different sports, with different skill sets. You take a LT, stick him in a Rugby league, he'll probably do OK just due to physical talent and some similarities, but he's probably not going to be the top. But I'm pretty sure that if Mayweather had started off as a kid in MMA (he started boxing around 8?) he'd be one of the best in MMA as well. He's just a crazy athlete with incredible ring IQ. | ||
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romanianthunder
Romania36 Posts
On September 15 2013 22:08 sc4k wrote: I take your points to a certain extent but I'm just saying Alvarez would have had a much better time trying to abuse his weight advantage and cutting off the ring more. Simply put, he may have had a tough time doing it, but he would have stood way more of a chance of winning than fighting the way he did, which was 0% chance. Also I was referring more to the spirit of JCC rather than the actual style because Saul has the physical stature to be able to fight more at mid range (also btw JCC was pretty good at fighting mid range). And just because those people you mentioned failed doesn't mean that their strategy was 'wrong' to beat PBF. Money May is competent against all styles, just like Leonard. The only way to stand with him is to be amazing and fight true to your ability. Unfortunately Canelo was probably not amazing enough and didn't do a strategy that allowed him to express as much as he might have been able to. But still, regardless of strategy I would only have given him a 15% chance of winning on account of his inferior skill, physical ability and lack of experience. Pretty much the same goes for Leonard or Hearns. Trying to work out how to beat them would drive you insane, you just have to go out there and try your best. Unfortunately Floyd has never had or has never had the opportunity to have a fight like Hearns Leonard I. Just about the talent who has been around at the time. .It takes technique and knowledge to abuse your weight something than alvarez doesn't have.he is lacking to many technical elements to abuse his weight.But in terms of mentality i was actually impressde.he was one of the few fighters who didn't crumble psychologicaly to mayweather,When mayweather illegally hit him in the ring he low blowed him back.he didn't shake hands,had no repsect for mayweather.good job.Far better than than ortiz.he has a good mindset. but I totally disagree with you regarding the hagler-hearns leaonard generation.That was probably the most technical and full of mind games generation of the middleweight division. Every fighter used to study their oppenent hard in order to counter their weaknesses,I remember seeing the hbo documentary where leonard described how it took him years to develop a gameplan for hagler.He stayed away the entire match,clinched hagle on he came on the inside and then immediatelly give a voley of shots just to score points.Also doing a volley of shots in the last 10 seconds of each round was brilliant. Also hearns eventually got leonards number in their second fight.He studied leonard perfectly and used his right hand and positionuing to kd leonard twice in one match.The corrupt judges gave it to leonard but hearns relistically won the second match and it was all due to good planning and studying the opponent perfectly.Hearns was leonards kriptonite Also hagler beat hearns quite good. Unfortunately there is no hearns or hagler to challenge floydie,The technique and mind games would be awsome | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 15 2013 22:18 hoemuffin wrote: I love technical fighters, watching Sweet Pea and Willie Pep fights are my favorite things in the world. The sheer body control and precision to do that is nuts. Sure, your Hagler-Hearns/Gatti-Ward fights are fun to watch, but mind-games and technical skill are what make boxing fun. Dude I totally agree but Hearns is not an untechnical fighter!!! Probably the most impressive and devastatingly precise offensive fighter of all time...but totally agree about whitaker and pep...damn that's awesome to watch. PBF's defensive skills are so unbelievable to watch. | ||
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romanianthunder
Romania36 Posts
On September 15 2013 22:30 sc4k wrote: Dude I totally agree but Hearns is not an untechnical fighter!!! Probably the most impressive and devastatingly precise offensive fighter of all time...but totally agree about whitaker and pep...damn that's awesome to watch. PBF's defensive skills are so unbelievable to watch. hearns has always been underrated since people only know him from losing to hagler and leonard.they do not know he is actually one of the most precise and powerful punchers in the history of boxing,i saw a tyson interview where he said that hearns was a middleweight hitting with more power than some heavyweights. | ||
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hoemuffin
United States72 Posts
On September 15 2013 22:30 sc4k wrote: Dude I totally agree but Hearns is not an untechnical fighter!!! Probably the most impressive and devastatingly precise offensive fighter of all time...but totally agree about whitaker and pep...damn that's awesome to watch. PBF's defensive skills are so unbelievable to watch. Oh yeah, Hearn's was definitely technically sound, but Hagler-Hearns was a straight up beat-em up brawl and so unexpected, which I think is what makes it so great. I don't think anyone expected Hagler to bring it to Hearns that hard and fast at the opening bell! That chin on Hagler.... Of course, for every magnificent fight out there, there's also one of these. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 15 2013 22:42 romanianthunder wrote: hearns has always been underrated since people only know him from losing to hagler and leonard.they do not know he is actually one of the most precise and powerful punchers in the history of boxing,i saw a tyson interview where he said that hearns was a middleweight hitting with more power than some heavyweights. Oh yes. Anyone who has watched these fights and knows the story will know that Leonard was pretty much on his way to lose by decision in the first match and that the hagler bout, while being one of the biggest barnstormers in history, was also ridiculously balanced on a knife edge and could easily have been hearns' night. And that hearns completely wrecked everyone else in his prime. And would have pretty easily beaten everyone PBF has fought and probably done it with something like a 90% KO percentage. For anyone who doesn't know about this golden period of boxing, please watch this documentary: On September 15 2013 22:52 hoemuffin wrote: Oh yeah, Hearn's was definitely technically sound, but Hagler-Hearns was a straight up beat-em up brawl and so unexpected, which I think is what makes it so great. I don't think anyone expected Hagler to bring it to Hearns that hard and fast at the opening bell! That chin on Hagler.... Of course, for every magnificent fight out there, there's also one of these. Haha definitely. The fact that this guy is going to be fighting in one of the most anticipated matches of recent English boxing history just shows you all you need to know | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
He'd destroy Aldo, GSP, Weidman/Silva, Jones, or Cain in a real fight too. He'd have his bodyguards shoot them. If you don't want to limit the skillset to boxing, I won't let you limit the skillset to cheesy martial arts you only see in the movies. Real fights don't work that way. Boxers would destroy MMA fighters in Boxing and vice versa. | ||
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yeabuddy
41 Posts
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yeabuddy
41 Posts
On September 15 2013 23:15 -_- wrote: He'd destroy Aldo, GSP, Weidman/Silva, Jones, or Cain in a real fight too. He'd have his bodyguards shoot them. If you don't want to limit the skillset to boxing, I won't let you limit the skillset to cheesy martial arts you only see in the movies. Real fights don't work that way. Boxers would destroy MMA fighters in Boxing and vice versa. So he only can win a "real fight" if its boxing rules or he has his bodyguards shoot his opponent? mma is more of a real fight than boxing, ever seen mayweather kick someone in the face or put a person in a limb breaking submission. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
Mayweather is prob too smart to do it, but him and edit:spelling | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
On September 15 2013 23:45 yeabuddy wrote: So he only can win a "real fight" if its boxing rules or he has his bodyguards shoot his opponent? mma is more of a real fight than boxing, ever seen mayweather kick someone in the face or put a person in a limb breaking submission. Are you suggesting that we put arbitrary limitations on what a real fight is? For example, in a real fight, you shouldn't be able to shoot your opponent, or have any of your friends help you? Shouldn't a fighter be able to use any of the resources available to him? Whether they be punches, kicks, submissions, or firearms? I don't know. You sound like an MMA fan, but your hesitancy to allow full utilization of tools fully available in the real world makes me think you might be a closet boxing purist. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 15 2013 23:45 yeabuddy wrote: So he only can win a "real fight" if its boxing rules or he has his bodyguards shoot his opponent? mma is more of a real fight than boxing, ever seen mayweather kick someone in the face or put a person in a limb breaking submission. What sort of moronic pointless argument is this man, seriously o.O | ||
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hoemuffin
United States72 Posts
On September 15 2013 23:45 yeabuddy wrote: So he only can win a "real fight" if its boxing rules or he has his bodyguards shoot his opponent? mma is more of a real fight than boxing, ever seen mayweather kick someone in the face or put a person in a limb breaking submission. I know of only one guy who got involved in a real fight, some guy mistook a classmate of mine as someone who his girlfriend was cheating on. Guy cold-clocked with a bottle from behind and proceeded to kick the crap out of him. Thankfully, the victim was REALLY lucky and didn't suffer any permanent damage. No MMA or Boxing or super secret Kung Fu training will prep you for that. Hell by your standards, I'd take a Navy Seal over anybody else, since they're actually trained to kill folks. Boxing and MMA are arts (or maybe sweet sciences). They don't turn you into Rambo. Why the hell would you want to get in a real fight anyways? Life isn't a kung-fu movie. If you're involved in a "real" fight you didn't start you're probably already on your back dazed, outnumbered, or facing a guy with a weapon(s). On September 16 2013 00:20 MassHysteria wrote: Mayweather such a mad scientist out there. And everything about Canelo compared to Floyd was kinda known, they were just hoping he could catch him with a shot, but that didn't happen. Mayweather is prob too smart to do it, but him and Goluvkin would be awesome. Canelo's fight plan was strange, it almost looked like he was trying to outbox Mayweather in the early rounds. The thing I love about Mayweather fights is that moment where he can drop his hands for a good 5, 10 seconds, and his opponent will stand there doing nothing because he has NO idea how to approach him. I think it'd be awesome, but I don't think Golovkin can cut down that much, and honestly, Mayweather doesn't really have any business fighting at junior middleweight. If only Andre Ward was a welterweight . | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
Well from what I've read/heard is that Golovkin walks around (normal wght) at around a few pounds lighter than what Canelo does (around 172, will try to find source). His trainer has said he would have no problem cutting down to 154. I agree though, I don't think Mayweather should go past 154. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On September 15 2013 17:30 cLutZ wrote: Pacquio has actually gotten old. If they had fought in 2008... And, honestly I hear what you are saying sc4k, but the reason that MMA is not "refined" like boxing, is because boxing, from a combat POV, is borderline retarded. Moreover, technical fighters like Floyd and the Klitchkos have mad the sport into the "meh" it is today. Basically, by allowing Mayweather to consistently win on points, without even getting a knockdown, he has been given a loophole in the rules. Its as if the Patriots build a robot that got 3 yards per carry, 100% of the time without fumbling. They would never not get a first down, would score on every drive, but it wouldnt be satisfying in the least bit. What do you mean, "allowed" and "loophole"? If no one is getting knocked out and only one guy is getting hit you give it to the guy doing the hitting, simple as that. He won on points because his opponents can't touch him, and it's not like he's clinching and stalling either. Unless there's a rule that says you have to stand and bang with the guy he's gonna keep doing what he's doing and make everyone he fights against looks like cans. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On September 15 2013 23:15 -_- wrote: He'd destroy Aldo, GSP, Weidman/Silva, Jones, or Cain in a real fight too. He'd have his bodyguards shoot them. If you don't want to limit the skillset to boxing, I won't let you limit the skillset to cheesy martial arts you only see in the movies. Real fights don't work that way. Boxers would destroy MMA fighters in Boxing and vice versa. Real talk Im pretty sure anyone with a gun could solo Money's 300-lb-5'-0'' bodyguard squad. In fact they could prolly do that without a gun. | ||
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tribulator
774 Posts
Wasn't aware. My bad. Her score card is a joke though... ![[image loading]](http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/floyd-mayweather-canelo-alvarez-judge-scorecard.jpg) I even rewatched the fight trying to imagine how she could have given rounds 1 and 3 (not to mention even the later rounds) to alvarez, but I just can't figure it out. She has to be being payed off by bookies or something. It just makes no sense how someone can be the consistently... wrong. Even Dave Moretti (middle) pushes into absurd territory. If boxing wants to really come back into the main stage in the US, this judging shit has to get fixed. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 16 2013 07:55 O-ops wrote: What do you mean, "allowed" and "loophole"? If no one is getting knocked out and only one guy is getting hit you give it to the guy doing the hitting, simple as that. He won on points because his opponents can't touch him, and it's not like he's clinching and stalling either. Unless there's a rule that says you have to stand and bang with the guy he's gonna keep doing what he's doing and make everyone he fights against looks like cans. Yea, loophole, like the loophole in a lot of high school basketball leagues where there is no shot clock (one year our state finals was 21-20). Points scoring in boxing obviously represents a way for fighters to win that the majority of fans do not appreciate. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On September 16 2013 09:18 cLutZ wrote: Yea, loophole, like the loophole in a lot of high school basketball leagues where there is no shot clock (one year our state finals was 21-20). Points scoring in boxing obviously represents a way for fighters to win that the majority of fans do not appreciate. You're confusing "showmanship" with "competition" here lol. And the shot clock thing is more akin to judges not breaking clinches or other bullshit stalling tactics that eats time off the fight without allowing both fighters to generate anything meaningful. Any of May's opponent is free to try whatever the fuck they want. Ball is always in their hand first and if they're too afraid of May getting rebounds from their failed offense and choose to take it slow like Canelo did last night, well, it's their fault. Scoring points is a skill, defense is a skill, ringmanship is a skill, footwork is a skill, and scoring points is a legitimate way to win that forces you to be on point all 12 rounds. None of what he used is designed to stall time or otherwise make his win and superiority over his opponent questionable. By the way, him winning without getting knockdowns being a "loophole" is fucking retarded. Really? You are saying that anyone that came into the ring with that guy and got outpunched 2 to 1 by him is actually on equal status with him? Come the fuck on. He already showed he put up good fights whenever his opponent wanted to bring it, so if ppl wants exciting fights, you should probably look at the challenger and not him. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
It is more than just Mayweather (who would beat any of the light heavies anyone mentioned, that is just sports science in action), very few Elite-Level boxing matches please fans anymore. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On September 15 2013 20:37 s4rk wrote: Same as how wrestlers grind out wins in MMA? A lot of people that came from pride that has fought in the ring and where soccer kick were legal often express their opinion that the UFC rules tends to favor wrestler. I can see this because soccer kick was a good way to keep wrestler in check and this also open up flying knees to be viable too. This is not possible in UFC because of the terrible rule of not being allow to knee or kick opponent if their knees/hands are on the ground. Roy Jones was one of the few that abuse this rule by keeping his knees and hands on the ground so they cant kick him and he basically crawl toward his opponent. This is why it not really a surprise that there are so many strong wrestler that do well in the UFC such as Clay Guida/GSP. But there are also great Striker that knock people down all the time and ends fight such as Anderson Silva (before he became a douche and play around fights) basically ended ALL of his fight ever since he became champion and make wrestler not look as invincible as other make it seem. This is rather rare to see for a champion to TKO or KO anyone since once you become champion, people will study you in and out and you will stop being as effective since you are also fighting the best contenders. Showing that the sport has along way to go because the meta right now is definitely wrestling but powerful striker can make the fight not to always go to the ground. I love both sports honestly and has come to enjoy the best of both world. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On September 16 2013 11:13 cLutZ wrote: They are all skills. The problem is obviously with those things being weighted too favorably when 2 high caliber fighters match up. It is more than just Mayweather (who would beat any of the light heavies anyone mentioned, that is just sports science in action), very few Elite-Level boxing matches please fans anymore. What? Lotta good fights exists where two ppl actually hit each other, unless by "Elite-Level boxing" you just mean Money and Vlad Klitschko then yeah, lol. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 16 2013 08:37 tribulator wrote: Wasn't aware. My bad. Her score card is a joke though... I even rewatched the fight trying to imagine how she could have given rounds 1 and 3 (not to mention even the later rounds) to alvarez, but I just can't figure it out. She has to be being payed off by bookies or something. It just makes no sense how someone can be the consistently... wrong. Even Dave Moretti (middle) pushes into absurd territory. If boxing wants to really come back into the main stage in the US, this judging shit has to get fixed. This is just a complete fucking nightmare for boxing, I really can't believe how stupid it is . 114-114 you have got to be fucking kidding me. Canelo barely won a single minute in the fight. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 16 2013 14:43 O-ops wrote: What? Lotta good fights exists where two ppl actually hit each other, unless by "Elite-Level boxing" you just mean Money and Vlad Klitschko then yeah, lol. Who else? | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On September 16 2013 10:28 StarStruck wrote: Stop comparing boxing to MMA and vice versa. the judges are the same. the commission is the same. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51489 Posts
Khan is great fight, one of the fastest pair of hands you will see, but his issues with his hands not covering his glass chin properly is his concern. Garcia fight he was dominating and was looking like another day at the office and a matter of time before Garcia folded from the onslaught, but Khan drops his hands thinking he has won and gets tagged by a right and its all over. His fight against Petersen doesn't count for me, i mean the scorecard from the lady judge in the Mayweather pretty much was how all 3 scored the Khan fight. Khan fights Devon Alexander in 7th December for a IBF title and this could be the key for the Mayweather fight to happen. Alexander is known for his huge right hook so if Khan "could" come out of that fight (his first at welterweight) and get the win, he would be pretty much nailed on to be getting his super fight with Mayweather. Interesting fight, i know i would be watching that for sure! | ||
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