EPTAndre Iguodala ✔ @andre
Really?? Ok... MOTIVATION!!!!!!
12:59 AM - 3 Jul 2013
Really?? Ok... MOTIVATION!!!!!!
12:59 AM - 3 Jul 2013
Lol. Was he ever really considering Sacramento? NBA players can take anything as a diss.
NBA Offseason 2013 - Page 33
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Lol. Was he ever really considering Sacramento? NBA players can take anything as a diss. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13409 Posts
On July 03 2013 14:53 slyboogie wrote: I'm forced to ponder how satisfying an answer like "pedigree" would have been a year ago. You're forced use the mystical qualities that work when they're self-evident. Of course the Spurs have pedigree in 2013! Where was it in 2012? Where was that moxie, man? So yeah, "cross your fingers and hope," I guess. It does cheapen the actual work that has gone and will go into it. Let me put it this way: would be more or less tempted to tinker with a team with a proven track record of championship success or a team that can't seem to get past round one/two? The Spurs made adjustments in bringing in Leonard and promoting Green and Splitter. They dumped R Jeff and boned Blair. It worked. What have the Clips done to suggest they'll be better than the last two years? I see a major upgrade in the coaching ranks but I'm not sure that will count enough. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On July 03 2013 15:06 VayneAuthority wrote: Houston should go after oj mayo instead, get some good scoring off the bench or JR? Might be too much money though. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 03 2013 15:06 Jibba wrote: Kings pull their offer to Iggy. Lol. Was he ever really considering Sacramento? NBA players can take anything as a diss. lol he's a cool guy with a big work ethic, I don't think his ego is that huge. He probably was considering whatever is best for him. Im sure he will get plenty of chances to shit on the kings, regardless of the team he ends up on | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
fball8088: "July 17 I will be taking my talents to Yahoo! sports" July 2 2013, 2:28 PM · Like · Reply · Quote · Flag | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
If they are considering howard and smith, they can definitely consider howard and mayo  Im not a fan of smith myself but maybe he could do better if he was a studded team and motivated? dont know | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On July 03 2013 15:07 RowdierBob wrote: Let me put it this way: would be more or less tempted to tinker with a team with a proven track record of championship success or a team that can't seem to get past round one/two? The Spurs made adjustments in bringing in Leonard and promoting Green and Splitter. They dumped R Jeff and boned Blair. It worked. What have the Clips done to suggest they'll be better than the last two years? I see a major upgrade in the coaching ranks but I'm not sure that will count enough. I don't think you're actually saying anything. The moves "worked" because the Spurs got to the finals last season. That's your point. The Clippers have never gotten to the finals and you don't think they will this season either. But you don't think they will because they never have - it's circular. Short of signing an elite free agent, I don't know what you want them to do? I can't disprove past performance but it's not indicative of definitive failure. They got better. There's only X number of teams better than them and those teams are only likely marginally better. That's a contender. If you want to say they're cursed or soft or don't have pedigree, fine. But I'm not sure what you want them to do about it? Go get pedigree? Edit: grammar | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
would rather mayo and jr =/ how much does mayo want? $5-6M a year? On July 03 2013 15:06 Jibba wrote: Kings pull their offer to Iggy. Lol. Was he ever really considering Sacramento? NBA players can take anything as a diss. yer. kings wanted him to committ right away. is iggy a RFA or FA? | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On July 03 2013 15:06 Jibba wrote: Kings pull their offer to Iggy. Lol. Was he ever really considering Sacramento? NBA players can take anything as a diss. I'd feel dissed if even the kings didn't want me. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 03 2013 15:07 RowdierBob wrote: Let me put it this way: would be more or less tempted to tinker with a team with a proven track record of championship success or a team that can't seem to get past round one/two? The Spurs made adjustments in bringing in Leonard and promoting Green and Splitter. They dumped R Jeff and boned Blair. It worked. What have the Clips done to suggest they'll be better than the last two years? I see a major upgrade in the coaching ranks but I'm not sure that will count enough. I think coaching can have a fairly big impact on a team. On the other hand, I think there is an important question with Redick and Dudley. The Clippers problem wasn't a lack of shooters, it was a lack of shooters who could hit anything in the playoffs. Butler had one of his best 3pt shooting seasons, and then was terrible in the playoffs. Crawford had a few good games but was mostly not good, and Bledsoe stopped shooting well too. Now Redick could fix that, and he did play a couple of seasons of feisty defense in Orlando, but he's also inconsistent as hell in the playoffs. Plus, tit'll hurt if they can't keep Matt Barnes. He was the only one who stayed consistent into the playoffs and was probably their best defender. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
We will find out about 20 games in if the clippers are a contender this year or not. If they don't shape up on D they will never go anywhere | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
The Clippers were what they were: the 4th best team in the West. And they'll likely be at least that this year. What they need, though, is to actually have a system and play as a team, something we saw little of in the first round exit. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13409 Posts
On July 03 2013 15:16 slyboogie wrote: I don't think you're actually saying anything. The moves "worked" because the Spurs got to the finals last season. That's your point. The Clippers have never gotten to the finals and you don't think they will this season either. But you don't think they will because they never have - it's circular. Short of signing an elite free agent, I don't know what you want them to do? I can't disprove past performance but it's not indicative of definitive failure. They got better. There's only X number of teams better than them and they're likely marginally better. That's a contender. If you want to say they're cursed or soft or don't have pedigree, fine. But I'm not sure what you want them to do about it? Go get pedigree? Edit: grammar This started about a comment relating to the Clips making the Finals next year following the Bledsoe trade. I disagreed because I thought it was a sideways move at best (despite it being a good trade in the sense they maximised Bledsoe as an asset when they likely couldn't afford him in the future). What's the beef? Well isn't that the best measure of success for the Spurs' moves?! Like, you know, doing better than the year before and making the Finals? How else are we to gauge the success of a team's personnel decisions from year to year? I don't think the Clippers will make the Finals next year because their team is not good enough. Did I not express this point clearly enough? It has nothing to do with them not making it in the past. They had a roster that wasn't good enough the last two years and I see minimal moves that would suggest that roster has improved to the point they can make the Finals in 2014. This isn't a criticism of the Clippers. I agree, what can they do? Not every team can sign LeBron James. I'd posture that perhaps they whiffed in not closing a deal for Garnett, but what can you do? I'm not privy as to why the deal for DJ/Bled didn't go down and never will. Your creating an argument from something I never argued. I'm not debating anything to do with what Clips should do to win next year, I simply put forward some reasons as to why I think they're no chance next year. You're tossing red herrings, building strawmen! Rabble, rabble, etc. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On July 03 2013 15:31 RowdierBob wrote: This started about a comment relating to the Clips making the Finals next year following the Bledsoe trade. I disagreed because I thought it was a sideways move at best. What's the beef? Well isn't that the best measure of success for the Spurs' moves?! Like, you know, doing better than the year before and making the Finals? How else are we to gauge the success of a team's personnel decisions from year to year? I don't think the Clippers will make the Finals next year because their team is not good enough. Did I not express this point clearly enough? It has nothing to do with them not making it in the past. They had a roster that wasn't good enough the last two years and I see minimal moves that would suggest that roster has improved to the point they can make the Finals in 2014. This isn't a criticism of the Clippers. I agree, what can they do? Not every team can sign LeBron James. I'd posture that perhaps they whiffed in not closing a deal for Garnett, but what can you do? I'm not privy as to why the deal for DJ/Bled didn't go down and never will. Your creating an argument from something I never argued. I'm not debating anything to do with what Clips should do to win next year, I simply put forward some reasons as to why I think they're no chance next year. You're tossing red herrings, building strawmen! Rabble, rabble, etc. I don't think it's a red herring, though maybe a straw man. Let me put it this way, The Clippers have a better coach, a better 2 guard and a good swing man. They're better. They're at least as good as last year, which I think is a Finals contender. You said that they didn't do enough(?) or they're not good enough(?) sorry dont have your wording exactly. But how can they not be? They lost to Memphis because any team could have lost to Memphis. It's just how it goes. The playoffs have this ability to cause massive evaluation issues, ie the Pacers are not nearly as good as advertised - separate conversation. So maybe I have your argument all mixed up. But you started off by making a point of their past playoff defeats. They have improved, while their opponents have not made any marked improvements. Are you saying they haven't actually gotten better? I'm not mad, I don't know what it is about my writing voice. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13409 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.naturephotohub.com/public/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif) I was simply pointing to past Playoff defeats as indicative of a roster that was limited (given the way they were spanked). I don't see much improvement in said roster which leads me to believe the Clips will hit the same wall again. <3 | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13409 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
1. I'm still not sure about the Clippers trade because I feel like a CP3 and Redick backcourt is smaller than I'd like with guys like Harden, Kobe, and Westbrook in the West, and Wade (since the Heat are a safe bet to make the Finals again). Dudley is a solid role player, but I'm wary of giving him too much credit for being considered a good defender on a bad defensive team. The effort and fundamentals will likely be there for both, but athleticism, speed, and size/strength ultimately determine a player's ceiling at the highest level. To be fair to the Clippers, I'm not sure how much better of a deal they could have got otherwise. 2. With regards to the Spurs vs. Clippers argument going on, I think it's a bit unfair and irrelevant to discuss things like "pedigree" or "proven champions" with the Spurs considering the fact that their team this season is so different from their previous teams that made it to the Finals. The only constants are their big 3 and Popovich, but it's not like they're even the same players any more or playing in the same system or style. I don't think anyone looked at the Spurs roster at the beginning of this past season and thought to themselves that they had improved enough to make it to the Finals, and yet there they were. The Spurs were seen as contenders, which means they appeared to have enough to have a good shot at making it to the Finals and challenging for a title. The same held true for the Thunder, the Lakers, the Clippers, and even the Grizzlies and Nuggets (by some at least). The Clippers were seen as contenders this past season, and even provided evidence for it with their regular season performance. They'll be contenders again this season, and you can certainly point to their coaching change, continued development of Griffin and DJ (many people neglect to mention that both made significant strides from the prior season), and roster changes as potential reasons why they have a better shot this season. That's no different than what Spurs fans were looking at coming into this season. 3. I'm not sure what was meant when someone referenced the Lakers' "salary cap issues" earlier, but it's my understanding that their books are pretty much clean after this coming season as things currently stand, with only Nash signed past this season. Kobe will likely re-sign once his contract is up, but I think it's safe to assume that he'll be willing to give the Lakers a substantial discount to try to win another ring or two. Whether Dwight chooses to stay or not, the Lakers have set things up to have a lot of flexibility in 2014-2015, so I don't think you can point to "salary cap issues" as a reason for Dwight to pick another team. The Lakers have a pretty open future right now that allows them to build around Dwight if he chooses to stay. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On July 03 2013 15:17 Doraemon wrote: would rather mayo and jr =/ how much does mayo want? $5-6M a year? If the salaries are the same (and not saying they necessarily will be) I think anyone should choose JR over Mayo. 6MOY, and while he did brick it up some in the playoffs I think that was just as much on the coaching staff/Knicks style than him. His defense improved last year and he could really score, more/better than Mayo. There is a question of his shot selection but I think that McHale/Houston in general can get him to cut back, especially if he's on a team with Harden/Howard. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On July 03 2013 16:20 DystopiaX wrote: If the salaries are the same (and not saying they necessarily will be) I think anyone should choose JR over Mayo. 6MOY, and while he did brick it up some in the playoffs I think that was just as much on the coaching staff/Knicks style than him. His defense improved last year and he could really score, more/better than Mayo. There is a question of his shot selection but I think that McHale/Houston in general can get him to cut back, especially if he's on a team with Harden/Howard. I don't know if "anyone" would choose J.R. over Mayo. J.R. has shown a higher ceiling, but he's still a headcase who may scare off some teams who aren't sure that they can handle him. Mayo also seems to have more of a "conscience" on offense, whereas J.R. is more of a "black hole" who's always looking to score if he touches the ball. I could see a team viewing Mayo as a more disciplined and coachable player, which could balance out the higher ceiling J.R. brings. | ||
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