EPTYeah, that guy is the best coach ever.
2012 - 2013 Football Thread! - Page 307
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Yeah, that guy is the best coach ever. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
I mean there's really no more direct proof of a manager's ability than the clear fact that when he joins the team it gets clearly better, in terms of results and positions. That has happened with all 4 major teams he has managed. Mourinho is already a good deal of the way into making the top 10 of all time managers, but in terms of the progress he has made at his age, I think he probably is ahead of everyone. Ferguson has 47 trophies at 71. Mou has 18 trophies at 50. To put that in perspective as well, the second highest total behind Fergie is jock stein with 26, and keep in mind that's just mashing the scottish league repeatedly. Trappatoni on 22. It took Mourinho 13 years of management to accrue 18 trophies. Took Fergie 38 years to collect 47. Very similar numbers. So there's no reason to discount Mou and say that he will not be able to rival or exceed Fergie. Depends on longevity really. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Lol yeah because your anti Mourinho. The real test for Mourinho to become the greatest manager is to win a world cup with Portugal when he moves to international management, which he said he will be doing. When he does that (if, fkn Portugal sucks lately for talent) he will be the best imo. Plus many people forget who taught Mourinho, and his teacher was imo, one of the top 5 managers in the world too. But Pep is a way away from being a top manager, because he had a good team, won things with them, playing nice. That is a good achievement no doubt, but he hasn't done it in different leagues with different teams. Mourinho has 4 league titles with 4 different teams in 4 different countries, thats pretty impressive! He dominates with those teams too. LaLiga last year was pretty much like this year, all wrapped up way ahead of time. Inter, the same. Chelsea still hold the record for most points for our wins. Porto, swept away Benfica that year for there win too. But if Pep lols the league and wins champs with Bayern then that is pretty impressive too, but until then...Mourinho > Pep xD | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
I think it's much harder to have one team and maintain it than jump from one to the other. And look at mourinhos squads, he had the best pacemaker of his era in porto(deko), some beastly players in chelsea but he failed miserably in europe, especially considering the amount of money roman wasted, some equally beaslty players in inter and I don't need to mention rm's squad. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On March 03 2013 22:39 Steveling wrote: And look at mourinhos squads, he had the best pacemaker of his era in porto(deko), some beastly players in chelsea but he failed miserably in europe, especially considering the amount of money roman wasted, some equally beaslty players in inter and I don't need to mention rm's squad. Well to a certain degree Mou is responsible for Deco's quick elevation to centrepiece of Porto. And he brought in Drog, who, combined with the defensive strategy Mou brought to Chelsea, was one of the main reasons we won so much. And in terms of inheriting a squad of beasts at inter...what the fuck happened the year after he left?!!?!? And remember, the core of Ferguson's accomplishments has been fuelled by the youth system of Man U that supplied him with many great players. So as much as you can accuse Mou of making heavy use of Lamps and Terry/ Deco, you should be accusing Fergie of building teams around Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Butt etc. And it's not like Fergie's transfer instincts are immaculate. What makes great managers great is the ability to understand what is working and what is not, the insight to move in specific strategic directions, and the capacity to plan for specific match ups. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Great managers are not managers that never make mistakes. They are managers that become part of the ethos of a team - where everyone is fighting for them. And they are managers that have the balls to make a decision and fight on even if it turns out to be a bad one. Yeah you can credit Fergie with being instrumental in the development of Ronaldo. When he came to the club he was a REALLY raw talent that was only really useful as a super-sub since he gave the ball away every 2 seconds and was on the floor for most of the time - but Fergie stuck with him and look what happened. But then Fergie also takes the rap for spending huge amounts of money on Veron and others who just didn't work out. Similarly you can't blame Mourinho for buying players with Chelsea money... you should give him credit for that. Being able to get players to come play for you is a good talent, not a flaw. Just look at Wenger, he just doesn't seem to have any balls in the transfer market. He just can't make a decision, he's not willing to trust anyone with a big transfer fee and so just ends up losing players. You want to credit him for qualifying for the champions league whilst spending no money?? No, Arsenal fans want him out because he's willing to accept 2nd best and not fight for 1st, whatever it takes. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
Funny to say my opinion is not relevant because I'm pro Barca when you guys are pro Chelsea and would probably join the Mourinhology Sect if he created it. Comparing titles, Mou won 18 in 13 years? Pep won 14 in 4. Again I'm not saying Pep is better, but just saying that titles aren't ALL. Again, comparing with CEOs, Mourinho is the kind of CEO that makes your company reach the sky and then burn into ashes when he's done playing with it. How could he be a 'great' manager? He's really 'efficient' short term but has never brought anything to football that other managers haven't done before him. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On March 03 2013 23:41 WillyWanker wrote: Funny to say my opinion is not relevant because I'm pro Barca when you guys are pro Chelsea and would probably join the Mourinhology Sect if he created it. Comparing titles, Mou won 18 in 13 years? Pep won 14 in 4. Again I'm not saying Pep is better, but just saying that titles aren't ALL. Again, comparing with CEOs, Mourinho is the kind of CEO that makes your company reach the sky and then burn into ashes when he's done playing with it. How could he be a 'great' manager? He's really 'efficient' short term but has never brought anything to football that other managers haven't done before him. Well I don't know about you but I personally know 100% that I am not biased. I very much appreciate Harry Redknapp but the majority of my fellow Chelsea fans think he is scum. I call it like I see it, and appreciate managers for what they are not who they manage. Pep has a legit shot at being put in the history books, if he shows us more of the same throughout his career. But I doubt he will. But that remains to be seen. I don't see what you are talking about saying that Mou burns down squads. What in the living hell are you talking about? Porto went on to a glut of success after Mou left, having failed to win the league 3 seasons in a row before he arrived. Chelsea's success in the Abramovich era almost singlehandedly comes down to Mou, for the team he put in place. Most of the additions by the club and Abramovich have been disappointments since. I fail to see how he has anything to do with Inter's sudden fail cascade. He showed that they were a world class team. And RM are looking incredible. He has had some problems with Casillas and the portugal/spain problem but he does not have a record of lowering morale in squads. All the players from porto, chelsea and inter all say he was an amazing team leader. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
Good thing you're 100% sure to talk objectively... I'm not going to list everything he ruined at Real Madrid that the next coach will have to fix next season... and the next and the next. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
He hasn't ruined 'everything at RM', they are still chugging along nicely. The squad is looking and performing way better than they were before he arrived. And even fringe players like Kaka are being kept in high spirits. There has been a bust up between the spanish and the portuguese in RM but meh, you Barca fanboys go on like Mou's high intensity and 'us against them' mentality is a terrible thing, whereas pretty much everyone in England loved him for it or at least appreciated him. He is a household name in footballing over here. PS Arsenal Tottenham today...I reckon it will probably be a draw or Arsenal victory...just think the pressure will get to Spurs. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On March 03 2013 22:54 sc4k wrote: Well to a certain degree Mou is responsible for Deco's quick elevation to centrepiece of Porto. And he brought in Drog, who, combined with the defensive strategy Mou brought to Chelsea, was one of the main reasons we won so much. And in terms of inheriting a squad of beasts at inter...what the fuck happened the year after he left?!!?!? And remember, the core of Ferguson's accomplishments has been fuelled by the youth system of Man U that supplied him with many great players. So as much as you can accuse Mou of making heavy use of Lamps and Terry/ Deco, you should be accusing Fergie of building teams around Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Butt etc. And it's not like Fergie's transfer instincts are immaculate. What makes great managers great is the ability to understand what is working and what is not, the insight to move in specific strategic directions, and the capacity to plan for specific match ups. The difference is that Fergie built these players through and through, just look at cristiano and how much he adores him for what he did to him. While Mou just played football manager version X The spending years, lol. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
He's been the manager of his team for almost 3 years now and nobody can tell what their gameplan is except for 'pass the ball to CR and pray'. They were the same with Pellegrini. Mourinho did one thing good: win the psychological war againdt barca as we can see with the last games. But what did he win? 1 liga and 1 copa (possibly 2). If he doesn win the cl this year, his rm time would be considered a failure. We are talking about Madrid, 1 liga and 2 cups are average for them, not more. To achieve these 'impressive results' (with this small team and these small investments realized), he did everything 'the ends justify the means' style. Well sorry, if he doesnt win the cl this year, he will have to explain himself for what he did (firing people, insulting everybody, trying to create conflicts in la Roja, etc etc). But I guess i'm dreaming, people will give him another free pass because he is 'the Special/Only one'! | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
I got a pic with him as a kid in the Camp Nou surrounds :D | ||
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:16 Steveling wrote: The difference is that Fergie built these players through and through, just look at cristiano and how much he adores him for what he did to him. While Mou just played football manager version X The spending years, lol. Except that part where he took a mediocre Porto team and in a couple of years won a UEFA cup and then a Champions League. Or before that when he took a recently promoted União de Leiria to 3rd place (ahead of Porto) before he was hired to Porto. Fun fact for the Barcelona fans, Mourinho has spent more time in Barcelona's bench than at Real's... | ||
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BeaTeR
Kazakhstan4130 Posts
even if you are RM | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:18 WillyWanker wrote: I was (almost) fine with RM before Mou arrived. I despise him for spitting on our club, and RM for letting this happen. He's been the manager of his team for almost 3 years now and nobody can tell what their gameplan is except for 'pass the ball to CR and pray'. They were the same with Pellegrini. Mourinho did one thing good: win the psychological war againdt barca as we can see with the last games. But what did he win? 1 liga and 1 copa (possibly 2). If he doesn win the cl this year, his rm time would be considered a failure. We are talking about Madrid, 1 liga and 2 cups are average for them, not more. To achieve these 'impressive results' (with this small team and these small investments realized), he did everything 'the ends justify the means' style. Well sorry, if he doesnt win the cl this year, he will have to explain himself for what he did (firing people, insulting everybody, trying to create conflicts in la Roja, etc etc). But I guess i'm dreaming, people will give him another free pass because he is 'the Special/Only one'! Every manager is hated at Real Madrid and never does enough, that's why they fire them every 6 months. And right now he has to compete with a Barce team that is arguably the greatest team ever constructed in the history of football. What he achieved last year, winning La Liga, WAS absolutely incredible. But for RM fans it's never enough. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:34 Sated wrote: Winning the Scottish league several times with Aberdeen (it should not be understated how big winning that league with a team that isn't either Rangers or Celtic is) and a European title with the same club was definitely fuelled by the youth system at Manchester United... Lol nice ninja edit... You're making a straw man anyway... he said "the core". Fergie will be remembered by most as a ManU manager. Although breaking the monopoly of the old firm with Aberdeen was unbelievable and is arguably Fergie's greatest achievement. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:47 Sated wrote: I'm simply pointing out that ignoring Aberdeen's League/European achievements under SAF whilst at the same time speaking about Mourinho's achievements at Porto is pretty silly. EDIT: I would also suggest that SAF's achievements at Aberdeen are "core" given that they're the reason he managed to get the job at United in the first place. Much like how Mourinho's achievements at Porto got him the job at Chelsea. SAF also managed a lower league side to several promotions in order to get his position at Aberdeen, which seems similar (if not better) to what someone else mentioned about Mourinho's job before joining Porto. I don't know much about the early careers of either manager, though, so I won't dwell on them too much... In any case, it's definitely clear that their careers are pretty similar, given that they've both worked their way up to bigger clubs through success at smaller ones. The difference IMO is that Ferguson built his United dynasty from scratch (Man United were not a big/good side when he joined), whereas Mourinho had his Chelsea dynasty paid for... Manchester United finish 4th in 1985-86, and had won the FA cup twice in 3 years. He didn't start from scratch, and in fact took 6 years to win a championship. | ||
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