EPTOn December 02 2012 21:30 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
Man City 9-6-0
QPR 0-6-9
You are doing it wrong
Man City 9-6-0
QPR 0-6-9
You are doing it wrong
'Arry needs to spend more.
2012 - 2013 Football Thread! - Page 175
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EchoZ
Japan5041 Posts
'Arry needs to spend more. | ||
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haitike
Spain2727 Posts
1.5 rate per game. This is madness. (Barcelona 48 goals in 14 league matches is insane too). | ||
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sharkie
Austria18636 Posts
However I'd love to know how many games both of them played. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story/_/id/1228330/hesse:-looking-for-gerd-muller-goals?cc=5901 | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:12 sharkie wrote: messi is going to beat müller's ancient record of goals scored in one year However I'd love to know how many games both of them played. Muller netted 85 times for Bayern Munich and West Germany in just 60 matches while Brazil legend Pele scored 75 goals in 1958 from 53 matches. Messi has scored his 76 goals in just 59 appearances with 64 of his tally coming for the Spanish giants. There :D So yeah, like you probably assumed, Muller has played way less games than Messi for the record | ||
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sharkie
Austria18636 Posts
Thanks for the info. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:43 sharkie wrote: Yeah but back then goals were scored more easily and frequently. That Messi breaks this record in modern football is just insane. Thanks for the info. Yea interestingly Bayern would lose quite a few games where Muller scored hat tricks. And I was looking at some goals on youtube and the number of tap ins is pretty high (which is actually rather normal for the time). Standards so high now in general with respect to defenders, the things even people below Messi like Ibra and RVP do are ridiculous.. + Show Spoiler + Also alot of Pele's goals from the year he did it wouldnt even count as official games even in that time if it wasnt for records purposes. The kind of garbage he played against at club level even for that time is pretty sad. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Watched 1970 FA Cup Final, Chelsea vs Leeds (replay, back in those days if it was a tie it would go to a replayed game and not extra time/pens) and that was on Wembley in Summer (may) and the pitch was worst than a sunday league pitch in the middle of winter. It was shocking, yet people like Eddie Gray (magnificent Leeds winger, google him) would still find a way to pick the ball up do a stepover, dribble and take players on for fun. As well as dealing with Defenders kicking him left right and centre. Put Messi on the shit pitches of those days and he wouldn't as much, specially being kicked (properly kicked) off the park. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On December 04 2012 02:28 Pandemona wrote: Yeah but add in the physical element of the games back then and it balances eachother out. Oh and the pitches, oh fuck me the pitches were bad. Watched 1970 FA Cup Final, Chelsea vs Leeds (replay, back in those days if it was a tie it would go to a replayed game and not extra time/pens) and that was on Wembley in Summer (may) and the pitch was worst than a sunday league pitch in the middle of winter. It was shocking, yet people like Eddie Gray (magnificent Leeds winger, google him) would still find a way to pick the ball up do a stepover, dribble and take players on for fun. As well as dealing with Defenders kicking him left right and centre. Put Messi on the shit pitches of those days and he wouldn't as much, specially being kicked (properly kicked) off the park. Well that isnt really football. Pele was no truck. Neither were people like Garincha or any of the flair players. Being physical would be a factor if they could actually touch the modern footballer. They wont even get near them most of the time and be chasing shadows. Bad pitches or otherwise. Its an irrelevant discussion. The modern game is better in every way thats just how it works. its faster, more technical and requires more strength and stamina then ever. You really think those bear guzzling footballers of the 1970s would keep up with the modern footballer ? Give me a break. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28797 Posts
messi beating a 40 year old record by one of the most prolific goalscorers of all time, in scoring goals, despite the fact that messi does significantly more than just scoring goals, just adds more credibility to the already established fact that in terms of skill, he is unquestionably the greatest offensive player to ever play the game. and Cronaldo is also, in terms of skill and ability, at a significantly higher level than any player whose main claim to fame happened more than 15 years ago. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
You will never know who was "properly" best unless each of the players in discussion could go back or forward in time and produce what they did back there nowadays. I'm not saying Messi would be crap back then, but im saying there is more factors to take into account than just looking at A player was x and y back then and B player is z and v in this era. Messi has not done anything significant to help his team to world cup yet, Muller and Maraddona and Pele have, if not single handedly. But anyway my point stands originally, Muller porbably would of scored more than Messi in that particular year if there domestic season was longer. 85 goals in 60 matches vs 76 goals in 59 matches So unless Messi scores 9 in his next game, Muller has a higher goals per game ratio in his time. But don't get me wrong it is a great feat by Messi. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On December 04 2012 05:05 Pandemona wrote: Yes but back in those days they didn't have nutritionists etcetc they just turned up and played football and they still produced magical players as Muller etc in the 70s. Players like Messi did exists in those days, they were the Pele's Maradonna's and such, just because they couldn't be good now because they weren't as atheltic as todays players doesn't mean they were not as good as them in their time. You will never know who was "properly" best unless each of the players in discussion could go back or forward in time and produce what they did back there nowadays. I'm not saying Messi would be crap back then, but im saying there is more factors to take into account than just looking at A player was x and y back then and B player is z and v in this era. Messi has not done anything significant to help his team to world cup yet, Muller and Maraddona and Pele have, if not single handedly. But anyway my point stands originally, Muller porbably would of scored more than Messi in that particular year if there domestic season was longer. 85 goals in 60 matches vs 76 goals in 59 matches So unless Messi scores 9 in his next game, Muller has a higher goals per game ratio in his time. But don't get me wrong it is a great feat by Messi. Maybe they would, but they didnt, What myself and drone are saying is not speculative. It is fact. You are speculating on the what ifs, what if Pele had these resources? What if Maradonna had them? Or even what if the defenders at the time had better training. There is no suggestion hat the players of the greats of old are not all that great and didnt pioneer the evolution of the game. It is because of players like that, that we get to see Messi and Ronaldo as we do today. That doesnt change the fact that in every way however they are just better now because the game is better now. It has nothing to do with comparisons between players. The game is more advanced and that is good for everyone. Nowadays if you see a defender getting squared and beaten they get publicly massacred in news and forums and so on. Back in their day it was normal. Hence the high scoring. Defenders are better now, scoring is harder now. Scoring this many goals in this climate means the strikers are better now. If your going to tell me cars from the 50s or 60s would have been better if they had better technology, well fucking duh. But the fact is they didnt, tough luck. | ||
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dmnum
Brazil6910 Posts
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haitike
Spain2727 Posts
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On December 04 2012 05:05 Pandemona wrote: Messi has not done anything significant to help his team to world cup yet, Muller and Maraddona and Pele have, if not single handedly. I hope you're kidding bro! Pele had the most talent-stacked teams of that time with players like Garrincha in 58 or Jairzinho in 70, while in 62 he participed in only one game. He never single handedly won a world cup, and nobody has ever done that, it's a team game, Messi cannot wins a world cup by himself. On his first World Cup, he was too young and barely played; on his second World Cup he didn't have the team to compete against giants like Spain or Germany that are the talent-stacked teams of our days. Muller wasn't even the star of his national team, Beckenbauer was, and there was a lot of other major players in the team at that time. For Maradona, I'm not sure how it really went down, people say he won the World Cup by himself and that Argentina had an average team... I can't really argue on him because I have no idea of who these players were... Anyway, IMO, although I haven't witnessed with my own eyes the Pele, Maradona or Cruijff, Messi is one step above these guys. True they were genius and played LIKE BOSSES during huge games, but Messi is just so regular in his awesomeness... This record is the perfect reflection of this regularity, and that's not even mentionning the fact that he is also one of the top, if not the top 1, assister of the year. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
And your pele facts are so wrong...1958... His first match was against the USSR in the third match of the first round of the 1958 FIFA World Cup, where he gave the assist to Vavá's second goal. He was the youngest player of that tournament, and at the time the youngest ever to play in the World Cup. He scored his first World Cup goal against Wales in quarterfinals, the only goal of the match, to help Brazil advance to semifinals, while becoming the youngest ever World Cup goalscorer at 17 years and 239 days. Against France in the semifinal, Brazil was leading 2–1 at halftime, and then Pelé scored a hat-trick, becoming the youngest in World Cup history to do so. On 19 June 1958 Pelé became the youngest player to play in a World Cup final match at 17 years and 249 days. He scored two goals in the final as Brazil beat Sweden 5–2. Did all that "injured" at 17 years old...in his first world cup, in Sweden, his first time in Europe. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On December 05 2012 04:03 Pandemona wrote: And your pele facts are so wrong...1958... Did all that "injured" at 17 years old...in his first world cup, in Sweden, his first time in Europe. How are my facts wrong? Sure he was the MVP, but he was far from being alone in his team. Brazil had the best team of the time, Pele never single handedly won a World Cup, as proven in 62 where his team did the job without him. The would probably have won 58 without him too. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Pele also played in 1962 world cup he got injured after the first game where he single handedly won it against Mexico. His replacement then fed off Garanicha who had the best tournament of his life. Pele was the best in '58 and won them the world cup at 17, in '62 he got them there and won the first game. It's debatable whether u think he wouldn't of been the same without the players around him, but if you read into how he scored the goals he did you will see most of them are him taking on 3-4 players before scoring... | ||
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sharkie
Austria18636 Posts
On December 05 2012 03:59 WillyWanker wrote: I hope you're kidding bro! Pele had the most talent-stacked teams of that time with players like Garrincha in 58 or Jairzinho in 70, while in 62 he participed in only one game. He never single handedly won a world cup, and nobody has ever done that, it's a team game, Messi cannot wins a world cup by himself. On his first World Cup, he was too young and barely played; on his second World Cup he didn't have the team to compete against giants like Spain or Germany that are the talent-stacked teams of our days. Muller wasn't even the star of his national team, Beckenbauer was, and there was a lot of other major players in the team at that time. For Maradona, I'm not sure how it really went down, people say he won the World Cup by himself and that Argentina had an average team... I can't really argue on him because I have no idea of who these players were... Anyway, IMO, although I haven't witnessed with my own eyes the Pele, Maradona or Cruijff, Messi is one step above these guys. True they were genius and played LIKE BOSSES during huge games, but Messi is just so regular in his awesomeness... This record is the perfect reflection of this regularity, and that's not even mentionning the fact that he is also one of the top, if not the top 1, assister of the year. as long as messi doesnt win the world cup with argentina he will never be -one step above- pele, maradona, zidane, (beckenbauer) | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
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