EPTOn October 31 2011 05:29 Trezeguet wrote:
Marathon PR? Sup son!
Marathon PR? Sup son!
Nice! What was the final result?
Running Thread - Page 12
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Nice! What was the final result? | ||
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shucklesors
Singapore1176 Posts
I would put a pretty comprehensive list of benefits from running in the OP, that works well as motivation juice. | ||
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Jh
Finland151 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
We focus on eliminating unnecessary volume of training while increasing intensity Long slow duration results in athletes being less powerful, less lean and more prone to injury, low energy and abbreviated sports longevity. Unnecessary volume? Wtf is "uneccessary" volume? There is a reason most olympic runners are doing anywhere from 90-150+ miles per week. The part about LSD is complete BS on the less lean, more injury prone, and shorter longetivity part; and the other two are a way of twisting truths to support there message. Obviously if your running 100 mpw your going to be tired some of the time, that's just the nature of the beast. Then there is this gem: Aerobic training has the following benefits and drawbacks: BENEFITS DRAWBACKS • Increased cardiovascular function • Decreased muscle mass • Better fat utilization • Decreased strength • Greater capillarization • Decreased power • Increased Mitochondrial growth • Decreased speed • Decreased anaerobic capacity • Decreased testosterone levels followed up with: It is apparent that the many drawbacks of LSD training easily overpower the limited benefits. Uhh....come again? Decreased muscle mass? Yea, runners really need tons of muscle huh? Decreased Power/Speed? Only if you do nothing but slow running all the time, with a proper program you will still be keeping that strong. Also, since when is sprint speed more important than aerobic power for most distance events? Decreased Anaerobic Capacity? Fairly certain this is why there are intervals and such thing. Decreased Testerone? Yea, thats super relevant to distance running... Now the stated benefits were: Increased Cardiovascular Function - Oh yea, that's not very important, is it? I don't think I even need to say more Better Fat Utilization - Pretty damn important if your running a marathon. Greater Capallarization - Allows your body to deliver more blood (oxygen) to the muscles faster. Something tells me this is good for running fast Increased Mitochondrial Growth - Even more oxygen! Then again...who needs that for distance running. There entire presentation is based on the idea that aerobic training isn't a good thing because it has the "drawbacks" they claim. The way they support their claims and present them is pretty smoke and mirrors AND also implies that the athlete is doing almost exclusively easy aerobic runs. Any intelligent training program has various elements of training in it so a runner is never out of touch with things like developing basic speed and power, and when it comes to anaerobic training that is a very important component of the phase of training leading up to competition. You need all the benefits from aerobic training so your body is much more efficient at getting and delivering oxygen to the body, but you must also be "anaerobically sharp" being able to handle speed and buffer/process/clear lactate. Basically, for someone who is trying to be a competitive endurance athlete this program is complete hogwash. If your goal is to be a fast runner, a fast cyclist, a tri-athlete, etc. this is NOT how you want to be training at all. That said, on the whole crossfit has alot to offer for people that are looking for overall fitness and body image. It really is a pretty decent program for developing general strength, muscle mass, explosive strength, and athleticism. TL;DR - My rant is more about the presentation and the way they slant some of their facts. The program is terrible if your goal is be as fast a runner as possible. It's quite good if your goal is general fitness, strength, and body image with an emphasis on endurance. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On October 31 2011 23:25 Jh wrote: Anyone doing/have any experiences with http://www.crossfitendurance.com/ ? I think L_Master is being a bit harsh here but I understand his rage. Training is very sport specific. If you want to be a good distance runner you should run long distances. If you want to be a sprinter you should run very short distances. If you want to be a crossfit athlete you should do crossfit. You can't be good at everything so the benefits and drawbacks they list on the website do have some degree of truth to them but it definitely is slanted. Also, long runs do not have to be LSD (long slow distance). I like long runs to be the same pace as regular training (or what I call easy) runs. People thinking long runs must be slow runs always gets on my nerves. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On November 02 2011 10:20 AirbladeOrange wrote: I think L_Master is being a bit harsh here but I understand his rage. Training is very sport specific. If you want to be a good distance runner you should run long distances. If you want to be a sprinter you should run very short distances. If you want to be a crossfit athlete you should do crossfit. You can't be good at everything so the benefits and drawbacks they list on the website do have some degree of truth to them but it definitely is slanted. Also, long runs do not have to be LSD (long slow distance). I like long runs to be the same pace as regular training (or what I call easy) runs. People thinking long runs must be slow runs always gets on my nerves. Heh yea, I was feeling a bit snarky when I wrote that. Still can't say I approve of the endurance without duration approach though. Good point about the long runs. Nothing wrong with long runs at normal easy pace, or even faster, as long as you plan for it as a workout if your going much faster than easy pace. | ||
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Jh
Finland151 Posts
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
I run marathon's with my gf, we got a 4:21:13 which means we FUCKING BROKE 10 MINUTE MILES ! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I don't have the motivation to run them by myself I don't think (or at least to do the training solo) so if I never find another guy to run with for 1/4 year then I'll forever be going slow, but I really enjoy the time with the gf and it keeps my just as healthy as running faster so who cares! Running can be such a great thing to do with others. If some of you are having trouble getting motivation to go, or get bored on runs, ask a mate to go out with you even if they are faster or you are faster, who cares! It's so fun to hang out even if it's on a run, plus it makes it harder to say no to a run since there is peer pressure to keep a schedule! | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
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Alakabon
Canada111 Posts
So basically, I am about 5’8’’ and weigh 152 lbs which is not technically overweight (BMI 23) but I packed a few pounds recently and losing them would be nice. That being said I’m not in a hurry and I’m not looking for the quickest way to drop pounds, just a nice way to ease into running a lot without injuring myself. I ran 4 days this week and I found I can do about 20-25 min at 6mph. - I looked up a few videos on proper form and I ended up quite puzzled at the different techniques and such (pose/barefoot running type thing). As of now I run with regular running shoes and try to land midfoot. The idea of inclining from the heels and not the waist is weird for me, as I feel a strain on my feet when I do it. I know it’s hard to tell without a video/a few pictures but is this normal at first or am I bending too much? - I’m not using a particular breathing technique right now because they feel wrong and for some reason tire me quicker… Is it something I should not worry about in the beginning or should I suffer through it, and if so how do you guys recommend doing that? - I’m ready to do dedicate roughly 45min/day to running. Should I go slower and run longer or stay at 6mph and gradually get there? - When I approach the end of my run (1-2min before the end) I tend to crank up the speed a lot to end up on a sprint. Is this a good idea or is it more counterproductive than anything else? Thank you for your time! | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
1. It is awesome that you are running, and 4 days a week is really good 2. If you are on a treadmill, don't worry about barefoot, just do what you said. Wear running shoes and land midfoot. What you really just want to avoid is being a heel striker. If you are just starting, then form is less important, and just worry about enjoying yourself! 3. For casual running, breathing techniques don't really matter either! Just breath in a comfortable way and try to relax. Outside of advanced techniques, your body knows what to do. 4. I would suggest doing the 45 minutes at a slower pace and then once you can do the 45min, then step up the pace. 5. Do not push then end of your run (last 1-2min). If you are looking to add a little extra speed at some point, run the first 1/2 at your normal pace, run the next 1/4 getting faster, and then go back to the normal pace for the last 1/4 or so. Pushing really hard at the very end hurts your muscles more than it helps them so even though it feels good to top off a run like that, it isn't in your best interest! One thing to keep in mind is that the best general exercise with running is when you are going at a slower, somewhat comfortable pace that you could hold a conversation at. You really shouldn't be out of breath or feel tons of strain on your legs. If you are looking to get faster, quicker. Do one run during the week that is maybe 30 to 45s/mile faster than your normal pace, but cut off 15 minutes of your running or something like that. This faster run should then get you a little out of breath and you will feel it in your legs. Lastly, it might be the best to just run for 40minutes and then do an easy walk for the last 5 minutes! Good luck dude! | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On November 06 2011 19:12 Alakabon wrote: Hi guys, I just started running this week since my dad bought a treadmill for the winter. This thread seemed quite encouraging and friendly so I thought I would share and ask a few questions. So basically, I am about 5’8’’ and weigh 152 lbs which is not technically overweight (BMI 23) but I packed a few pounds recently and losing them would be nice. That being said I’m not in a hurry and I’m not looking for the quickest way to drop pounds, just a nice way to ease into running a lot without injuring myself. I ran 4 days this week and I found I can do about 20-25 min at 6mph. - I looked up a few videos on proper form and I ended up quite puzzled at the different techniques and such (pose/barefoot running type thing). As of now I run with regular running shoes and try to land midfoot. The idea of inclining from the heels and not the waist is weird for me, as I feel a strain on my feet when I do it. I know it’s hard to tell without a video/a few pictures but is this normal at first or am I bending too much? - I’m not using a particular breathing technique right now because they feel wrong and for some reason tire me quicker… Is it something I should not worry about in the beginning or should I suffer through it, and if so how do you guys recommend doing that? - I’m ready to do dedicate roughly 45min/day to running. Should I go slower and run longer or stay at 6mph and gradually get there? - When I approach the end of my run (1-2min before the end) I tend to crank up the speed a lot to end up on a sprint. Is this a good idea or is it more counterproductive than anything else? Thank you for your time! 1)I don't think its super important to worry about form, and certainly can be counter-productive to focus on super tiny aspects. General running cues such as run tall, gliding, not-stomping is usually good enough, especially if you thrown in some drills a few times per week. There are great runners with all types of forms and footstrikes. Some heel-strike, some are forefoot strikers, some shuffle, some lift their knees high, etc, etc. 2)I don't think you need to worry about breathing other than making sure your not hunching and closing off your chest, and making sure your getting nice full breaths through the diaphragm. Shallow breathes using just your upper chests would likely be inefficient. 3) Can you run for 45 min at 6mph? I guess the bottom line is effort, run at whatever pace is comfortable and relaxed. Your pace should feel like something you can be conversational at, and could run comfortably for several hours at. If your struggling at the end of your 20-25 minutes runs, starting to feel burn in your legs/chest, etc then go slower for sure. If you finish the 20-25 minute runs feeling comfortable and strong 6mph should be fine. 4) This is fine. The Ethiopians in particular use this, often finishing up the last 40-60m of runs at a full sprint to work on explosiveness/kick/speed. 2 min before the end if probably a little excessive, since that's well over a quarter mile, but somewhere between 50-200m of pick-up stuff at the end is fine. Another good alternative is strides which is doing say 4-8 pickups of maybe 20s at mile pace or faster and is good for maintaining neuromuscular coordination for speed and usually has benefits for running form and efficiency. Sounds like your on a treadmill. There is certainly nothing wrong with that but I imagine you'd enjoy the running alot more if your were to go outside and run. | ||
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koOl
Canada254 Posts
Current pr's: 5km - 17:30 3000m - 9:57 1500 - 4:35 800m: 2:08 Goals: 5km- 16:59 3000m: 9:49 800m: 2:05 Im ambitious but really want to work hard this year. Also I have dealt with alot of injuries and have overcome them (shin splints, runners knee, achilles tendonites) so if you have any questions feel free to ask. Finally...I hope this hasn't been posted in this thread yet but if you are looking for inspiration or motivation to run there is a GREAT running documentary called "Spirit of the marathon" which follows 4 amature runners and 2 elite runners up to and including the Chicago 2005 marathon. Quite inspirational. Here is the trailer and the full movie is availible on youtube: edit: movie doesn't seem to be showing up here....just search "spirit of the marathon" on youtube and you'll find it  link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8XSit8XyeM | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
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koOl
Canada254 Posts
On November 07 2011 13:34 AirbladeOrange wrote: What distance do you race in cross? 8-10 km, depending on the race | ||
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dobber
Bulgaria12 Posts
The way I'm going, I should be able to shave off another 5-10 minutes in spring. | ||
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SecondSandwich
United States319 Posts
Just want to spread the word The Once and Future Way to Run | ||
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psychopat
Canada417 Posts
Also, with Winter quickly approaching, I don't really know what I'm going to do once the snow hits. Gyms are boring as hell so I've kind of discounted that option. I've seen that most treadmills and infinite step machines are usually in the 4-digits in terms of price, which seems expensive. Are they the type of thing that you can go for a used one and not worry? I keep picturing a middle-aged housewife that's used it twice in her life before it gathers dust and becomes a makeshift clothesline... Edit: For what it's worth, I did the 3-mile version of that race this summer and it took me a little over an hour... It's really the hills that kill the cardio, not the obstacles. | ||
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BilltownRunner
United States229 Posts
On November 08 2011 03:53 psychopat wrote: I've started training for an obstacle race next summer, which is about 8 miles of ski slopes with obstacles thrown in for extra fun... I'm currently nowhere fit enough for it so I've been going jogging, purposely picking hilly streets and pulling off roughly 27min 5k's. I know that's not very good but part of the reason I signed up for the race is just to give me incentive and motivation to go out and exercise. Am I better off continuing with 5k jogs for now (roughly 3mile) or should I immediately go to a slower-paced full 8 mile jog? Also, with Winter quickly approaching, I don't really know what I'm going to do once the snow hits. Gyms are boring as hell so I've kind of discounted that option. I've seen that most treadmills and infinite step machines are usually in the 4-digits in terms of price, which seems expensive. Are they the type of thing that you can go for a used one and not worry? I keep picturing a middle-aged housewife that's used it twice in her life before it gathers dust and becomes a makeshift clothesline... Edit: For what it's worth, I did the 3-mile version of that race this summer and it took me a little over an hour... It's really the hills that kill the cardio, not the obstacles. You do not want to go from running 3 mile runs to 8 mile runs daily. Since your race isn't until next summer you can slowly build up to 8 mile/day. If you run 3mile/day thats 21 per week and if you went to 8mile/day thats 56 miles a week. 300% increase/week is not good, usually you want your increase to be about 5-10% a week. Make some of those 3 mile runs, 4 mile runs until you build up (if you are racing 8 mile you probably want your long run to be 10-12, at least). Also if you think gyms are boring as hell, wait until you get a treadmill. However, some people love running and then they can turn on the TV or something. I hate running on a treadmill unless it is under about 0 degrees Fahrenheit I always go outside. Awesome that TL has a running thread! Got regional meet this weekend, ran 27:53 for last 8k. Hoping for sub 27:30 at this one! | ||
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psychopat
Canada417 Posts
The part I'm worried about with winter is that outside just gets very slippery, with the snow/slush/ice. It just seems like asking for injury troubles and you wind up spending more time picking your footing than anything else. It also gets way colder than just 0 Farenheit here; that would be a pretty mild winter. | ||
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