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Co-op Mission Update - January 17th, 2018

Forum Index > SC2 General
12 CommentsPost a Reply
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-17 22:28:15
January 17 2018 22:26 GMT
#1
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20761076677

Key points

Part & Parcel

We’ve read all your feedback on Part & Parcel and have identified the following primary concerns:

The pick-up mechanic is not as fun as it could be.

The bonuses, especially the first bonus, is difficult.

The mission often ends abruptly (We’d like to investigate ways to more effectively communicate the objective).

There isn’t enough time to complete the mission.

It’s not clear what the bosses do.


Han & Horner

After we release a commander, we like to take a little time to evaluate our community’s experience with them and then see what we can do to improve it. Our most recent commander has seen a decent amount of time in the sun so far and we’ve noticed the following:

Reapers seem like they’re in a good place right now. Most of the other units, on the other hand, seem weaker in comparison. The community has specifically pointed to the Battlecruiser as a problem unit, citing his Mini Yamato upgrade is more of a downgrade.

Strike Fighters aren’t seeing as much use as we’d like. We’d like to hear your thoughts on ways that we might change these to make them more appealing



Fenix

Oh boy. Fenix has historically been the most-changed commander in all of Co-op by a wide margin. Despite all the changes, we’re still receiving feedback that he’s maybe a bit too weak. Here’s a list of Fenix’s issues we’ve identified:

Fenix’s ramp-up time still feels a bit too long. While we’ve made efforts to address these issues in the past—notably, cutting most of his research costs by half—but we still feel like he might need a bit more of a bump.

Carriers are still commonly considered Fenix’s best unit composition. While we’ve tried to curb the strength of Carriers in the past, we now want to take the opposite approach. First, we’re thinking about reverting the cost change to Interceptors made in the past from 15 to 0. Second, we want to take a good look at the rest of Fenix’s army and see how we can push those units and their respective champions to the next level.

Fenix’s army lacks survivability. First, we believe that whatever buffs we make to Fenix’s army (even offensive ones) will improve his units’ survivability (Amon’s units don’t deal damage when they’re dead). Additionally, we’re looking into what we can do about the Conservator, a unit whose designated purpose is to help retain units.

Avenging Protocol still doesn’t feel as strong as we’d like. We’ll be looking to make major changes to Avenging Protocol so that it’ll feel quite a bit more impactful in battle.



Karax

Karax is a popular commander in mutations and frequently gets voted as the “Commander of the Week” in mutation posts. We decided to focus on Karax as one of the commanders for the next patch since some of the plans we have for Fenix also seem like decent changes for Karax (Colossus and Carrier changes in particular). Karax is an example of a commander that we feel doesn’t require many changes (and we don’t want to set the expectation that every single commander gets sweeping changes).


As with Fenix, we’re planning on reverting the Carrier Interceptor change.
We feel the Colossus costs slightly too much for what it does, especially because it’s a fairly niche unit.
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Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
January 17 2018 22:27 GMT
#2
I'm surprised strike fighters arent used more. I think they're really good and usually quickly build all 10 platforms and spam it throughout the mission
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
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Patton3D
Profile Joined March 2011
United States65 Posts
January 17 2018 22:37 GMT
#3
Since when did monk work for Blizzard?
You are never defeated until you admit it.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
January 17 2018 22:40 GMT
#4
On January 18 2018 07:37 Patton3D wrote:
Since when did monk work for Blizzard?

he joined them about 2 months ago
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
January 17 2018 22:58 GMT
#5
On January 18 2018 07:37 Patton3D wrote:
Since when did monk work for Blizzard?

For a little while, this is the official announcement though
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Icysoul
Profile Joined December 2007
Canada254 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-17 23:22:41
January 17 2018 23:12 GMT
#6
Congrats Monk! Teamliquid will always be here to provide feedback for you.

Some thoughts on the topics you've brought up:

Han and Horner:

-Horner air units are fine power-level wise, but the tech upgrade costs are a little high. Having to pay such a premium for the units and having to pay 200/200 for the viking upgrade is a little prohibitive. The main problem with the battlecruiser upgrade is that for 150/150, you receive a very situational sidegrade.

-One thing to maybe look at is the hp of the strike fighters. As it was said, strike fighters are good, but it sucks when they die before dropping its bomb and have to wait for a 2 minute respawn. Maybe an alternative solution would be just keep the striker cooldown the same regardless of whether the strike fighter died or not.

-Ravens feel like they are expensive observers and little more. The damage amplification is relatively negligible.

Fenix:

-Avenging protocol would be far more useful if it also increased a small percentage of hp per stack. We all know how terrifying avenger mutation can be.

-15 mineral cost interceptors for mass carrier build is fine. The limiting resource has always been gas. However, it becomes noticeable when you want to build units other than carriers.

-The conservator is already plenty powerful with the 20% damage reduction shield. However not having to have to pay for the extra gas for the radius upgrade would be really nice.

Karax:

-Karax is fine and has his niche as a tower-defense commander. Colossus and interceptor cost reduction would be welcomed and would not increase his already great tower-defense power level.
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
January 18 2018 04:56 GMT
#7
no wonder I haven't seen Monk in the coop threads laely.
Someone call down the Thunder?
NGASC2forum
Profile Joined October 2017
4 Posts
January 18 2018 05:13 GMT
#8
Hello I am one of Chinaserver player and now using our common account to reply.
Since Monk is a skillful enough player, it is hard to believe as he is in that designer team, they did nerfed Hercules which is of
course the soul of Swann. Is that because Monk was still not the main designer and did not have enough power to speak for that?
In NGAforum we are gathering information points so we still cannot reply specifically about Fenix or something here. But maybe in this PvE coop mode, nerfing should be less and balancing commander means more about buffing relatively weak ones as Zagara/Mira/Artanis.
DSh1
Profile Joined April 2017
292 Posts
January 18 2018 08:26 GMT
#9
I don't understand how Fenix carriers are considered weak after playing Karax with carriers. Karax' ramp up time with unit feels to me 10x worse even with unit cost reduction. I don't know I must be doing something very wrong... .
StarDraKe
Profile Joined January 2009
France65 Posts
January 18 2018 08:40 GMT
#10
Glad to see, they keep looking on the coop.

Most of map changes make sense.

About fénix, I think they should make a hero only commander (a bit like nova). you get to have few only heroic units.

Han & Horner: Reaper is in my opinion too strong.

On a general note, I would like to be able to do and redo all weekly mutation since the beginning throuhg a control panel.
PhotonMan123
Profile Joined January 2018
1 Post
January 18 2018 09:09 GMT
#11
Hey there,
here are some suggestions from my perspective (Experience: lvl 295, 4850 mmr in 1v1)

Han & Horner:

My main concern ist, that reapers are the only mercenaries that heal themselve. Next to this it is frustrating that you have to repair your galleons with scv´s-
-> Suggestion: Give the Raven, which you have to build anyways, a weak heal aura, similar to dehakas 1st level of healing. With this, you can just micro your gealleons back a little, and other mercenaries become more cost effective. Maybe even reduce the healing aura only to mechanical units, so reapers do not benefit from this buff and become more even.
For the strike fighters it annoys me to build 10 buildings for their little use.
-> Suggestion: Make strike fighter plattforms more compact. Enlarge the strike fighter plattform to a 4x4 building rather a 2x2 building and give the plattform 5 planes each, which are beeing build automaticly for no cost. Suggestion for a reasonable cost for the building, which should feel more like a little airport ist 450, 300, same tech requirement.

Fenix:

For Fenix I think his main problem with his ground army is the medium to weak anti air.
-> Suggestion: 2 major changes for units:
--Immortal:the protective field is nice, but I would give the immortal the protective field as an auto cast ability with a duration of 5 seconds with a 15 seconds cooldown. For the moment the immortal ist rarly used in later stages of the game, because the colossus is mostly a better choice in the robotic facility. (If you would miss the static protective field I would be glad to see a stationary immortal for maps like dead of night or miner evacuation)
--Conservator:The conservator is a fun unit, but sometimes a little annoying to build and just used because you have to much gas and the protective field is a nice addition. My suggestion would be to give the conservatores the interferience matrix from the terran raven from the multiplayer as a manual cast ability. The matrix should not be limited to mechanical units, but to heroic units. I would like to see the interferience matrix on manual cast so your army has at least a little micro abilities.
With these changes you increase the use of immortals, enhance the surviveability to auto cast protective fields and take on the opponenty army piece by piece(conservator would take out units like carrier, or tanks and you could deal with them, when the buffer units are mostly defeated.)

Karax:
With Karax it feels way to limited on anti air capacity next to carriers or phenix & zealot. I love the shadow cannon, but the cooldown is way to high for beeing a good enough anti air to take on most enemys.
-> Suggestion: Give the shadow cannon a super short cooldown of 5 seconds, but limit its target options for air units only. That should prevent players for goin for just mass immortal, and lets your centuries be more of a supportive role. I hate to have to replace centuries because I am not able to shut down any air to ground units form my opponents fast enough.

---
So that would be my suggestions for useful coop commander changes. If you have concernes about my suggestions feel free to discus these with us.
best regards,
PhotonMan
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4139 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-18 20:15:44
January 18 2018 10:03 GMT
#12
some maps need tweaks

the map "mist opportunities" should be 4-5min shorter. I don't see why it always takes 30mins. There was a scenario when I killed the whole map already before to we have to escort the 4th wave of the harvesting bots.
If you remove the 5th wave, the game will end at 23rd minute. This is much better.

the "vermillion problem". I don't think you can collect 20 Xenon Crystals as fast as possible. You have to play until 4th or 5th lava anyway in order to collect 20.

Scythe of Amon. You better don't kill as fast as possible. You have to wait to 15th minute if you want to collect all bonus. Happened twice when I played with Raynor.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
DSh1
Profile Joined April 2017
292 Posts
January 18 2018 12:28 GMT
#13
I agree, that the only problem with Fenix is his anti-air. His survivability besides his Zealots is really high. Weird that the general consensus is otherwise.

Also I really like that the bonus of part and parcel is difficult. At least it is a challenge and not a default like every other map besides scythe of amon. It's an option I can get if my ally and I are doing really well. So I find challenging bonus quite good actually.

On the other hand my least liked map is dead of night. It feels so boring during the night.
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