EPTNumy I'm on Skype so just send me a message if/when you want to play.
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Numy I'm on Skype so just send me a message if/when you want to play. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 01 2015 23:26 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I killed a dude and used MY FIGHT MONAYYYUU to give sidewinder missile launchers. I have no idea if missile launchers are any good, although I do know that since they're physical ammo, you need to refill them regularly. I got some beam lasers which tear through shield so fast, but the gimballed machine guns I got seemed to be giving me issues when fighting the Federal Dropship last night - not sure if I was doing something wrong or if the Dropship used something that prevented me from firing. edit - actually, as I'm thinking about it more, it could be because of where the machine guns are located on my ship. This wasn't something I had to think about with the Sidewinder. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
An example from BFZ is the Ingest creatures or the B/W lifegain theme. Individually the mill/exile mechanic and lifegain don't do much and the cards they're on are of only average value. However, their value shoots up if you are utilizing these mechanics to interact with other cards in your deck, so as your deck leans more strongly toward the theme, there's a somewhat dynamic question of how much the mechanic is worth (e.g. how many processors do I need before I want to use Culling Drone over a stronger creature?). HS just doesn't do this very strongly. Drafting in HS is heavily skewed toward just picking the best card in each pack because mostly the game isn't designed around this power/synergy tradeoff. Some of this has to do with the core design of drafting in HS, but it also has to do with card design. Blizzard hasn't done a good job of designing mechanics that are that strongly synergistic for limited (and even if they did, the fact that all sets are drafted together in 1 giant card pool rather than each set individually like in Magic limits the density of such synergistic cards you'd get). | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Blizzard is just starting to flesh out tribes. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
For example, basically all the Khans block clan mechanics are heavily creature-centric except Delve, and basically all of them could be analogously handled in Hearthstone in some fashion. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
I was more pointing towards design challenges for them in general rather than specifically for limited. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Velen's Chosen isn't too good because it needs a minion to be played on, but it's still great value nonetheless. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
My post in the MtG thread about BFZ: On September 28 2015 00:02 MoonBear wrote: I agree with sentiments that some of the design in BFZ is a bit wonky and does feel as clean as other things MtG has done in the past. The Ingest/Processor thing is a bit of an execution error, since I can understand how from a thematic point of view how the idea was to represent the lore. Eldrazis literally dissolve your existance which is represented by exiling cards, and they use this material to make new things which are the processors. Could have been done better though. I think PVDDR's article about BFZ flaws hit the nail on the head though that the Allies in BFZ just don't make any sense at all. Allies in original Zendikar were very clean in the sense you knew that all Allies did stuff with other Allies. BFZ Allies are just random and seem more like a "Hey original Zendikar had Allies so here are some things which are Allies yo!" Urgh. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
I'm also kind of miffed that Blizzard has more or less stopped balancing cards. It's like, hey, let's take one of the greatest strengths of an electronic format and ignore it for the sake of trying to make the cards feel more real. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Deathrattle synergy (Naxx) Mech Tribal (GvG) Spare Parts (GvG) Ogres (GvG) Dragons (BRM) Inspire/Hero Powers (TGT) Joust (TGT) Many of these aren't all that bad, even though TGT's in particular are (and Ogres are stupid and should never have been a cycle/theme). Deathrattle synergy, Mechs, Spare Parts, and Dragons are all tenable limited mechanics that, if pushed in a limited-focused game, could make great deck archetypes (Spare Parts being especially interesting since it's something that could never work mechanically in a paper TCG but can be implemented in Hearthstone). But two of the better ones (Deathrattle and Dragons) suffer from being in minor sets that cannot be self-contained for limited, and Arena not being set-contained at all dilutes all of these archetypes to the point where you're still largely just drafting for card quality. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On October 02 2015 00:58 phyvo wrote: I'm also kind of miffed that Blizzard has more or less stopped balancing cards. It's like, hey, let's take one of the greatest strengths of an electronic format and ignore it for the sake of trying to make the cards feel more real. This, definitely. I'm not itching for Blizzard to go around buffing cards, and I'm not itching for them to pull LoL-sized balance changes every few weeks, but I'd really love it if they weren't completely allergic to making alterations when it's obvious one card or another is utterly dominant. I'm kind of sick of playing around Dr. Boom. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You want to have a mechanic that doesn’t interact with any other set? That’s fine, but do you need three of them? I think that's my gripe. I'd like the idea of a B/W lifegain ally deck with BFZ, but apart from the generic stuff like Citadel Siege or Suspension Field (no idea if they're still in standard, FRF's release was a KTK/FRF mix) none of my existing cards go well with it because you want allies and there aren't allies outside this set, and there probably won't be for some time after the next set. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2015 01:28 Alaric wrote: I think that's my gripe. I'd like the idea of a B/W lifegain ally deck with BFZ, but apart from the generic stuff like Citadel Siege or Suspension Field (no idea if they're still in standard, FRF's release was a KTK/FRF mix) none of my existing cards go well with it because you want allies and there aren't allies outside this set, and there probably won't be for some time after the next set. I mean, Allies is a limited mechanic. Even limited mechanics that interact with cards outside the set won't reasonably do so because the power level of limited is so much lower than constructed. You still wouldn't play the cards because they're just outright not good enough for constructed formats. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Or EDH once I've done enough pre-release/release events, so two years from now~ | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On October 02 2015 01:30 Numy wrote: BFZ is a pretty bad set all things considering. I just like the analogy of it to TGT as TGT is well a bad set too. Even with a bad MTG set I feel there are enough systems in place to get enjoyment from it. I disagree, I don't feel it's a bad set at all. I'm fairly interested to see what the lower power level does in terms of Standard (and even Modern) constructed because most people had it as not making much impact at all at first, but now I'm seeing more and more talk of the inclusion of extra color splashes to Abzan to make converge, and Landfall aggro decks (or maybe even Allies though the possibility seems low) becoming a reality. Devoid/Ingest diesn't seem like it'll happen for constructed, and while forced for limited (you can read the discussion in the MTG thread people were having on that) much of the time ingest simply adds extra value---many of the processor creatures are of solid quality anyway and you'd draft them while treating the ability to process cards as an upside. If the ingest creatures are too shitty for even filler material, many of the solid removal cards also exile which adds to that synergy. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
@Wave: Honestly it's really just deth2munkies complaining about Ingest, lol. Honestly I think for limited Ingest/processor balance is pretty good because you have a nice spectrum of playable Ingesters alongside a nice spectrum of processors and how deep you need to dig for mediocre/bad Ingesters depends on how much upside you expect to get from your processors. It's not a binary issue of "I'm playing processors so I HAVE to play Ingesters", but rather "am I playing enough processors that its worth i for me to play Ingesters rather than just relying on removal//how bad can the Ingesters I play be and still be worth it?" | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On October 02 2015 01:47 TheYango wrote: WotC tends to be very cyclical with set power--weak sets tend to follow powerful sets, followed by a slow ramp back up in set power. BFZ's just the weak set in the cycle, and shares some features with previous weak sets like Kamigawa (which is similarly guilty of too many mechanics that don't interact with cards outside it like Spirit/Arcane stuff). Were you around back then? Do you feel that people are going to hate this block as much as Kamigawa was apparently maligned? And I'll reiterate, while I think this set/block in particular was hyped a ridiculous amount and maybe people came off feeling a little let down by some of the cards/power in the set, I think the set itself is not 'bad.' 'Weak,' yes, but not bad. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 02 2015 01:27 Seuss wrote: This, definitely. I'm not itching for Blizzard to go around buffing cards, and I'm not itching for them to pull LoL-sized balance changes every few weeks, but I'd really love it if they weren't completely allergic to making alterations when it's obvious one card or another is utterly dominant. I'm kind of sick of playing around Dr. Boom. I'm sick of Thirsty Blades suddenly popping out for 40 damage. Seriously, I'm not asking for big changes. Dr Boom at 8 mana, maybe do something to Boom Bots. Warsong Commander fix for minions over 3. Simple things. | ||
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