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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
It's Monday. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
My submission | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On March 19 2018 05:39 Seuss wrote: Scip, is this you? https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/858spt/yet_another_science_nexus_rush/ I didn't even realize it might be until I was responding to the person asking the dumb "Why aren't you going Spiritualist in a Tech rush strategy?" question, then I saw the reddit handle. oh damn and I thought kdog was ninjamaster catching the fact I posted on stellaris subreddit when he mentioned this on skype instead it was actually Monte all along oh, lemme share a fun way to play stellaris with you: remove all research and unity penalties for owning systems (you can leave in the ones for planets I suppose), then put in maximum AIs+fallen empires+marauders. The game is way more fun when it is actually worthwhile to claim systems and it's not necessarily as worthwhile to abuse vassals, which are absolutely broken overpowered atm lol. Right now it feels like all good strats revolve around staying on about 10-15 systems, rushing science, and then you either expand through vassals and keep teching, or literally destroy all your science labs, you can even disband all research outposts, and just build only mines instead. Which feels like a rather silly way to play. But it's the only reasonable way to play as a devouring swarm for example, because no vassals ecksdi | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 22 2018 19:19 Scip wrote: oh damn and I thought kdog was ninjamaster catching the fact I posted on stellaris subreddit when he mentioned this on skype instead it was actually Monte all along oh, lemme share a fun way to play stellaris with you: remove all research and unity penalties for owning systems (you can leave in the ones for planets I suppose), then put in maximum AIs+fallen empires+marauders. The game is way more fun when it is actually worthwhile to claim systems and it's not necessarily as worthwhile to abuse vassals, which are absolutely broken overpowered atm lol. Right now it feels like all good strats revolve around staying on about 10-15 systems, rushing science, and then you either expand through vassals and keep teching, or literally destroy all your science labs, you can even disband all research outposts, and just build only mines instead. Which feels like a rather silly way to play. But it's the only reasonable way to play as a devouring swarm for example, because no vassals ecksdi Yeah most of my games currently devolve into spamming Habitats for science and Ring Worlds for everything else, and sometime around 10 years before the end game I convert all the science to Energy/Replicators and all my starbases to Anchorages and suddenly I have 2400 naval capacity. The per-system penalties are definitely too harsh, especially for tech. I was honestly surprised when they reduced the Unity penalty but not the tech one. Anyway, kudos on posting a tech rush which was actually something I could replicate. I'd looked at a number of them and almost universally they say things like, "I don't think I was very lucky" and it was preeeeeeeetty clear they'd lucked out, hunted for a good galaxy seed, etc. Though to be honest, I don't think Galactic Wonders is even worth it. Mathematically speaking a completed Science Nexus is between 0% and 7% faster research-wise compared to using those resources to build and populate an equivalent number of Science-oriented Habitats, except you start benefiting from the habitats way sooner and you get extra starbases out of the population. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
About science nexus vs habitats, lets look at the math. Science Nexus costs 100k M, 75 E in upkeep and gives 225 science (for simplicity). A fully occupied habitat with let's say 10 science buildings (+main building+entertainment district) costs 12175. Actually let's just call it 12500 because I'm gonna be building synths on it anyway and it's a nice number. So I can afford 8 habitats for 1 science nexus. Let's assume I have no scientists left to assists research, which isn't unreasonable. If you have let's say 5 habitats already, which you well might do if you rushed science nexus, then you really shouldn't have any scientists left over assisting research in inferior planets. so the bonuses you might get for research are going to be something like 20% for synth, 15% for happy, 15% for intelligent+(x) expert. Hope Im not forgetting anything. so each habitat will produce 4.5*10=45 science. So you actually need only 5 habitats to match the science of Nexus. So 8 habitats give you 360 science as opposed to 225 of nexus. let's throw some more assumption at the wall. Let's say you already have 15 planets and 10 systems, which seems pretty reasonable imo. So your tech penalty is 95% without 8 extra habitats, 135% with them. Before you build either of those things, I think science income of lets say 500? sounds reasonable. So you are either at 860 with 135% penalty or 725 with 95% penalty. So that makes habitats something like... 3% faster or something when it comes to research. Now, the price you pay for that is unity and energy. Traditions cost 320% more without the extra habitats, but 480% with them, and the extra unity they provide isn't exactly going to compensate I think. But given how many +unity modifiers you can stack up it can probably come close to breaking even. Now, energy is a bit bigger issue. So a synth is going to have 0.75 E upkeep I think? And each science building is going to have 2.7 E upkeep. Assuming that cap building gives you 8 energy, upkeep on those habitats is going to be 224 energy, that 149 more than science nexus. Now, so far, habitats seem to be winning out imo, they have better research, and while they cost more energy, they come online earlier and the bigger you get, the better they are compared to a science nexus. Well, what about mineral income? Not to underestimate you, but you might not be even familiar with the counterintuitive and frankly absurd formula for consumer goods. With the former assumptions, you pay 0.65 minerals for each consumer good, but with 8 extra habitats, that raises to 0.73. Now, assuming you have 16 pops per planet on average, you have 240 pops before 8 habitats, 336 after. You pay 0.525 consumer good for each pop I think? (1.5-(25% from trait, 25% from edict, 15% from prosperity finisher). So without extra habitats you pay 81.9 M, with them you pay 127 M. So, to summarize: Habitats are about 3% better research wise, scaling better into lategame. They cost 149 more E/month They cost 45 more M/month, which gets worse as you get into lategame. They cost 500 more influence They probably reduce your unity income by a little bit but not much Overall, I'd call that a slight win for Science Nexus. Given that, I think Galactic Wonders are often worth it, because the main prizes you get are Dyson Sphere, which is bloody efficient, and Sentry Array, which makes wars especially around nebulas SO much easier. Is it better than Rings of Life? ehhhhh.... I don't know about that. Honestly, probably nah. You can get both I guess, since Dyson Sphere>Ring World and Sentry Array is still great. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
^_^ | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I like when that happens. ^_^ Now I can resume being annoyed when she tries to pawn me off to all her friends daughters. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
re Scip: I play the 2.0.2 beta where they've fixed the Vassal abuse, but when you're building Rings upon Rings you end up with more starbases than you know what to do with so it doesn't matter. The difference is really academic, the AI right now is fubar'd so you can literally disband your fleet and they'll never bother you because ?????. In like my past 10 games I haven't been attacked. It's silly. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 23 2018 09:08 iCanada wrote: Right? I like when that happens. ^_^ Now I can resume being annoyed when she tries to pawn me off to all her friends daughters. You are contractually obligated to do at least one date with her friends daughter now. It's the law.  | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On March 23 2018 08:45 iCanada wrote: Great news friends, my mom isn't dying. ^_^ Time to celebrate! | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
http://www.crunchyroll.com/mitchiri-neko | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
As an aside... it's absolutely absurd how expensive steel is right now. Trumps an idiot. Apparently best way to eliminate "Asias manufacturing advantage" is to artificially inflate north american steel prices... and I'm a Canadian trying to send a product not to the US. Project 8 figure plant I'm working on saw an 8% cost escalation from materials, our competitor fabricating out of Taiwan saw a 2% cost escalation on a much smaller number in the first place I imagine because they dont pay BPressure welders 100 bucks an hour like we do. Woof. It's probably worse for my competitors in the US too, because we can still get some steel at reasonable rates from overseas, just... less of it. Working hard for them Americans. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On March 24 2018 02:09 iCanada wrote: Thanks everyone. As an aside... it's absolutely absurd how expensive steel is right now. Trumps an idiot. Apparently best way to eliminate "Asias manufacturing advantage" is to artificially inflate north american steel prices... and I'm a Canadian trying to send a product not to the US. Project 8 figure plant I'm working on saw an 8% cost escalation from materials, our competitor fabricating out of Taiwan saw a 2% cost escalation on a much smaller number in the first place I imagine because they dont pay BPressure welders 100 bucks an hour like we do. Woof. It's probably worse for my competitors in the US too, because we can still get some steel at reasonable rates from overseas, just... less of it. Working hard for them Americans. Yeah, his whole trade war nonsense is straight out of idiotsville. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Crusnik
United States5378 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On March 24 2018 08:01 Crusnik wrote: I never thought I'd see a hardrock band cover Ellie Goulding, but dammit, it isnt bad... + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIiItG4x2MQ After all the various versions I've heard of this song, I've come to the opinion that the only way it sounds bad is if people aren't trying. | ||
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