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On June 04 2015 13:15 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 12:53 wei2coolman wrote:On June 04 2015 12:43 red_ wrote:
Personally I'd rather a game skimp on graphics(or at least it better have great optimization for a wide variety of PCs to be able to play it) so that it can reach a greater audience. Graphics and gameplay/story don't have to be mutually exclusive or anything so I won't go down that hole, I just dislike the notion that every couple years games need to absolutely push the newest architecture to its fullest, even at the cost of the vast majority of gamers that aren't upgrading to said new architecture. Problem is this is a growing trend... When was the last time a game came out that had you saying "oh shitttt, dem graphics!!!" Crysis was a game changer, it became the benchmark of personal computing, past couple of years have been a complete snore fest in computing architecture change. Games still do a poor job of using multiple threads, despite the fact everyone and their mothers is running a minimum of 2 cores and 4 threads. With most gamers running 4 cores. Game graphics haven't exactly been pushing any barriers at the 1080p level. It's pretty much been the same shit for the past 6 years. FUCKING BORING. The fact that the only way people can scale up usage on their graphics card is to go up to 4k resolution in 2015. Says a lot about how shit in-game graphics engines are for what year it is. I see this all as a positive. I'm sure nVidia and Radeon are a little saddened, but I couldn't care less about their bottom lines, I care about how far my dollar gets me with entertainment, and when games aren't pushing graphics for the sake of pushing graphics I get far more value out of gaming. I'm not saying every game needs to get on the pixel-graphics hype train, but I'm cool with games pushing optimization over maximization of graphics.
nvidia and amd are probably more than happy that game requirements are stagnating.
less money in r&d, no rigorous push for next gen graphics for current games.
The only thing in the horizon that's currently pushing graphics development is VR and 4k gaming. none of which increases the actual quality of graphics in games.
even the slowness of the development of dx12 speaks to how stagnant the scene has gotten in terms of personal computing power. also the shitty multi-thread support for games are complete shit, even if they don't want to press hardware boundaries, they should at least be pushing software efficiency boundries with stuff like Mantle and Dx12, but nopppppe..
seriously though, casuals ruin everything.
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which reminds me, anyone want to start playing battle for wesnoth with me and scip? Not necessarily tonight, ofc, but possibly in the future.
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United States47024 Posts
Dom4 is small development cost, small installed base, which is the paradigm of most indie developers. You don't have to be insanely popular to make money because the cost of making your game was sufficiently low. But to keep costs low, you can't invest in high-quality graphical assets.
Most AAA developers/publishers have high development costs, and expect a large installed base. Here they can afford the costs required to create high-quality graphical assets, but compared to that cost, the increase in potential userbase is minimal--and can even hurt your userbase if high quality graphics pushes your game past what consoles or mobile platforms can support.
In both cases, the logical conclusion it's not financially sensible to over-spend on graphics in your game. In the case of indie games, they simply cannot afford the cost, and in the case of AAA games, it hurts their potential installed base too much and doesn't really justify it's cost.
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On June 04 2015 13:24 TheYango wrote:
Spending such a large fraction of your budget to please <1% of your potential userbase is not smart business.
We knew this in 2005 already when WoW came out. In fact, it's MORE true now than it was then given the emergence if mobile gaming as a potential platform when your game's system requirements being conservative enough to be ported to a mobile platform can MASSIVELY expand your potential userbase. I don't know how you're arguing this a decade later, wei2.
I'm not saying it's a smart move, I'm just lamenting the fact no one in the industry even tries anymore.
fucking casuals. I want muh enthusiast grade hardware just for shits and giggles.
WHERE'S THE 2015 SKULLTRAIL??? INTEL???
i'm talking about hardware enthusiasts, not gaming enthusiasts. also pc gaming enthusiasts are vastly different than general gaming enthusiast.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 04 2015 13:30 wei2coolman wrote:
seriously though, casuals ruin everything.
Given that hardcore gamers are usually the most supportive of "gameplay over graphics" indie games like Dom4 that LT mentioned, this has nothing to do with "casuals". The most hardcore traditional PC gamers are actually the biggest adherents to "gameplay over graphics" given that their favorite games are usually almost 2 decades old (Starcraft, Infinity Engine games, CS1.6, etc.).
The "OMG GRAPHICS" crowd is usually that middle ground that is not sufficiently casual to enjoy console and mobile gaming, but not hardcore enough to be pedantic about gameplay over everything else. That's not really casual, but also certainly not hardcore.
On June 04 2015 13:34 wei2coolman wrote:
i'm talking about hardware enthusiasts, not gaming enthusiasts. also pc gaming enthusiasts are vastly different than general gaming enthusiast.
In my mind the hardware enthusiast that is not a gaming enthusiast is like an audiophile who doesn't listen to music.
It doesn't make any sense.
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On June 04 2015 13:36 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 13:30 wei2coolman wrote:
seriously though, casuals ruin everything. Given that hardcore gamers are usually the most supportive of "gameplay over graphics" indie games like Dom4 that LT mentioned, this has nothing to do with "casuals". The most hardcore traditional PC gamers are actually the biggest adherents to "gameplay over graphics" given that their favorite games are usually almost 2 decades old (Starcraft, Infinity Engine games, CS1.6, etc.). The "OMG GRAPHICS" crowd is usually that middle ground that is not sufficiently casual to enjoy console and mobile gaming, but not hardcore enough to be pedantic about gameplay over everything else. That's not really casual, but also certainly not hardcore. Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 13:34 wei2coolman wrote:
i'm talking about hardware enthusiasts, not gaming enthusiasts. also pc gaming enthusiasts are vastly different than general gaming enthusiast. In my mind the hardware enthusiast that is not a gaming enthusiast is like an audiophile who doesn't listen to music. It doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, but there is a still a significant overlap between the both, and the hardware enthusiast depends on the gaming enthusiast market (in this case, it's just the gaming market, casuals included), to push the boundaries, so companies are willing to make hardware enthusiast level shit.
Just like Crysis was the catalyst for GPU development, I'd like to see a company take a crack at doing the same. Of course it'd be silly for me to expect Fallout 4 to be "that" game, seeing as it'll be Bethesda being little bitches, and pretty let the community all the hardwork for higher res texures, and graphics.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean for my personal interests, I think developing hardware in the mobile space is a more interesting avenue for hardware development than the cutting edge of desktop PCs.
A tablet or handheld that has a GPU that can keep up with current PCs or even current-gen consoles is a more interesting development space IMO than pushing the current cutting edge further. Though, as we know from the Vita's flop, even that kind of handheld has very limited market if the price point isn't right.
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On June 04 2015 14:04 TheYango wrote:
I mean for my personal interests, I think developing hardware in the mobile space is a more interesting avenue for hardware development than the cutting edge of desktop PCs.
A tablet or handheld that has a GPU that can keep up with current PCs or even current-gen consoles is a more interesting development space IMO than pushing the current cutting edge further. Though, as we know from the Vita's flop, even that kind of handheld has very limited market if the price point isn't right.
Especially harder considering more constraints, such as size, heat, battery, etc etc.
Even then, mobile platform has improved tremendously, but not much has improved in regards to gaming on mobile platform...
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United States15536 Posts
I still want a Vita though.
Even though I play almost nothing.
That P4G is so tempting...
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United States47024 Posts
So do I, but its really not justifiable in any way at it's current price.
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Finally watched this week's game of thrones.
+ Show Spoiler [ NO SERIOUSLY] +Holy shit new stuff? Books please, this is exactly what I needed to know. Next we'll get to the whole Dany "Reveal" and I'll be happy once again. We have 4 episodes left? Or 2?
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On June 04 2015 15:45 Cixah wrote:Finally watched this week's game of thrones. + Show Spoiler [ NO SERIOUSLY] +Holy shit new stuff? Books please, this is exactly what I needed to know. Next we'll get to the whole Dany "Reveal" and I'll be happy once again. We have 4 episodes left? Or 2?
Only 2 episodes left this season 
Immediately after that True Detective will start tho.
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On June 04 2015 15:45 Cixah wrote:Finally watched this week's game of thrones. + Show Spoiler [ NO SERIOUSLY] +Holy shit new stuff? Books please, this is exactly what I needed to know. Next we'll get to the whole Dany "Reveal" and I'll be happy once again. We have 4 episodes left? Or 2?
2 left. Get hype.
+ Show Spoiler [serious book spoilers] +FOR THE WATCH
HYPE
MUCH RAGE VERY WOW
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Well a friend got me Skullgirls, so I guess I need to join the party sometime...
Also I haven't heard the name Battle of Westnoth in a while. Think the last time I played it was 5-6 years ago? I never really did that well in the campaign.
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United States23745 Posts
Man. I am really, really good at getting tricked during quest in The Witcher 3.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Battle for Wesnoth really is the craziest most cancerous RNG game I've played, it's like HS on crack.
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Oh are they still putting that in after changing everything else around it oo
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On June 04 2015 05:29 Zdrastochye wrote:
Maine is the closest thing to Lesotho in America, so yeah I'd assume so.
Well played friend.
@LT Yes I'm here in Augusta. Shoot me a PM and if you're anywhere close we'll talk.
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On June 04 2015 11:13 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 10:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
I want to stream soon but I've fallen into a pit of Whose Line clips
Send help "When I joined this party, I really wasn't sure, why the cleric couldn't heal, or conjure up a smore, Amathos was all broody, but the worst part really was, the half-orc and the human loudly making out next door"
*applause*
although, I have to say again - y'all don't know what goes down there
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SG tonight for a bit guys?
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EPT
