EPTYoutube:
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Casters: Tasteless and State
GSL 2024 Code S Season 1 Ro16 - Group D
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
Youtube: AfreecaTV: https://play.afreecatv.com/gslenglish/259432134 Casters: Tasteless and State | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On March 21 2024 19:05 tigera6 wrote: Is Maru under that mask? Cheating Prime Terrans. edit: actually Ryung was on Slayers or ogs wasnt he? I forget. Might ruin the joke. | ||
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-KG-
Denmark1219 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On March 21 2024 19:08 -KG- wrote: Is the english afreeca stream useless for everyone else too ("Stream has ended" etc)? And with the obnoxious borders on the youtube stream they are not making it easy to watch the GSL live anymore.. Works great for me. /shrug | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
wait is he still winning | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
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HeroSandro
534 Posts
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yoshi245
United States2972 Posts
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Poopi
France12909 Posts
Mech becoming too strong? | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7090 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On March 21 2024 19:48 Argonauta wrote: This Ryung vs Solar match(and the last group of GSL as well) exemplifies very well for me how weak is the argument of "if Serral had competed in GSL he would have won several". GSL is a very harsh tournament where upsets do happen frequently, that someone is favourite on paper is never a guarantee here. I mean Solar played like really really bad in this series | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 19:49 Pandain wrote: This build is so dumb - I'm sure I've just had a particularly skewed sample size but every time I see this it feels like it just works I mean Solar played like really really bad in this series Exactly. On paper, however, he should have crushed Ryung | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On March 21 2024 19:52 Argonauta wrote: Exactly. On paper, however, he should have crushed Ryung But I don't think that's what people mean when they say "GSL is a very harsh tournament." They mean that because of preparation even underdogs can bring absolutely incredible games and push anyone to the limit. They don't mean like people are expected to/tend to play very poorly at GSL - that can happen at any tournament. Poor herO, PvT too rough | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 19:56 Pandain wrote: But I don't think that's what people mean when they say "GSL is a very harsh tournament." They mean that because of preparation even underdogs can bring absolutely incredible games and push anyone to the limit. They don't mean like people are expected to/tend to play very poorly at GSL - that can happen at any tournament. Poor herO, PvT too rough Both are true. On paper the same people will win all the time and there will be no variance, and at the same time what you have said. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7090 Posts
On March 21 2024 19:48 Argonauta wrote: This Ryung vs Solar match(and the last group of GSL as well) exemplifies very well for me how weak is the argument of "if Serral had competed in GSL he would have won several". GSL is a very harsh tournament where upsets do happen frequently, that someone is favourite on paper is never a guarantee here. Rofl. What sort of argument is that? | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
That hypotheticals are silly. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On March 21 2024 20:08 tigera6 wrote: We are going to have another Ro4 full of Terran, arent we? I have faith one of Stats/Shin can take down Gumiho Maybe uh particularly Shin | ||
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-KG-
Denmark1219 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On March 21 2024 20:08 tigera6 wrote: We are going to have another Ro4 full of Terran, arent we? GomTvT <3 | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7090 Posts
Serral has 2 GSL titles. Not hypothetical. Factual | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On March 21 2024 20:49 Harris1st wrote: Serral has 2 GSL titles. Not hypothetical. Factual So Trap is three time GSL champ? My man, and people say he isn't the GOAT protoss! | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 20:49 Harris1st wrote: Serral has 2 GSL titles. Not hypothetical. Factual what are you talking about? | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7090 Posts
 2019 GSL vs. the World2018 GSL vs. the WorldBoth of these were in a time where GSL was actually competitive. Not the empty hull that Maru has been winning the last 3 times | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:11 Harris1st wrote: 2019 GSL vs. the World2018 GSL vs. the WorldBoth of these were in a time where GSL was actually competitive. Not the empty hull that Maru has been winning the last 3 times My man those are invitationals held in korea. With the likes of Has, Khelazur or Cyan as representatives of China and popular votes. That is not a GSL | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:14 Charoisaur wrote: GSL Solar is back! I liquibeted herO and Solar to advance.... I dont know wtf he did this time. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:11 Harris1st wrote: 2019 GSL vs. the World2018 GSL vs. the WorldBoth of these were in a time where GSL was actually competitive. Not the empty hull that Maru has been winning the last 3 times So you think a Super-Tournament like format with 8 players from EU/NA/CN and 8 from KR, not best 16 players in the world is more competitive than the GSL CODE S format with the like of Maru Dark herO Cure Byun Ragnarok Solar Gumiho Classic Bunny Creator...? | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7090 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:19 tigera6 wrote: So you think a Super-Tournament like format with 8 players from EU/NA/CN and 8 from KR, not best 16 players in the world is more competitive than the GSL CODE S format with the like of Maru Dark herO Cure Byun Ragnarok Solar Gumiho Classic Bunny Creator...? I think that in general, a tournament is not harder or "more competitive" just because it's longer. How hard a tournament is defined by the player pool and the money on the line. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:29 Harris1st wrote: I think that in general, a tournament is not harder or "more competitive" just because it's longer. How hard a tournament is defined by the player pool and the money on the line. you can think whatever, doesnt change the facts. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7090 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:31 Argonauta wrote: you can think whatever, doesnt change the facts. And what facts might that be? Anyway, agree to disagree and let's hope herO pulls through | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:39 Harris1st wrote: And what facts might that be? Anyway, agree to disagree and let's hope herO pulls through That the invitationals held in Korea in 2018 and 2019 that you referred to are not, in any shape and form, a GSL despite sharing the brand name. But yes, herO is looking strong now | ||
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darklycid
3531 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7090 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:45 Argonauta wrote: That the invitationals held in Korea in 2018 and 2019 that you referred to are not, in any shape and form, a GSL despite sharing the brand name. But yes, herO is looking strong now I can admit that. Though that leaves the question what does count as a "GSL" and how much does it count? Does the GSL S1 2024 count as much as Code S 2016? 2019? The online Covid GSL? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16044 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:51 Harris1st wrote: I can admit that. Though that leaves the question what does count as a "GSL" and how much does it count? Does the GSL S1 2024 count as much as Code S 2016? 2019? The online Covid GSL? GSL was always offline during Covid | ||
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UnLarva
458 Posts
Global StarCraft II LeagueAll that is listed here is GSL (in the broad sense). If GSL colloquailly refers to GSL: Code S doesn't change the fact that Serral competed offline premier twice at Korea and in FACT beat shit out from some of then best GSL players. Multiple Code S hold lesser value than those tournaments, if not for any other reasons then only because Serral (and Reynor, and Clem) wasn't there. Period. | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 21:51 Harris1st wrote: I can admit that. Though that leaves the question what does count as a "GSL" and how much does it count? Does the GSL S1 2024 count as much as Code S 2016? 2019? The online Covid GSL? A GSL is a GSL but yes, the relative weights that each one of them holds is relative. And that relation depends of the total strength of the competition. GSL S1 2024 hasn't finish yet, so its hard to judge. But the overall trend is that newer GSLs are diminishing in weight compared to their old counterparts. Still, giving that the international tournaments tend to have playoffs dominated by GSL code S players (where most of the ro16/ro8 players are participants of Code S) I would say that GSL, compared with the rest of its peer tournaments each season, is still the strongest tournament we have in SC2. It is just that the overall skill in the SC2 scene is diminishing. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 22:03 Schelim wrote: guys there's kind of a game between herO and Ryung on right now which will decide which of these two gentlemen will advance to the round of 8 of GSL Code S, which is what this thread is about. maybe we can all respect that. Sorry yes, I got sidetracked. I think that disruptor play is becoming weaker and weaker unless you go 4 robos a la Patience and saturate the field | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
funny that the only Zerg who survived the ro16 is SHIN. i got Maru and Classic advancing form group A, and Cure and SHIN from group B, but i'm rooting for the Gumigod heavy. i feel like he and SHIN end up in the same groups/facing each other a LOT | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 21 2024 22:09 Schelim wrote: GG well played. Ryung got closer to advancing than I expected, which I like, but it's also great to have herO in there. funny that the only Zerg who survived the ro16 is SHIN. i got Maru and Classic advancing form group A, and Cure and SHIN from group B, but i'm rooting for the Gumigod heavy. i feel like he and SHIN end up in the same groups/facing each other a LOT You say funny, but Shin is one of the strongest zergs right now period. He is showing it non-stop in the big tourneys. I think is just that due to his clunky style,midgame numbers wrestling, is hard to accept by many. | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On March 21 2024 22:13 Argonauta wrote: You say funny, but Shin is one of the strongest zergs right now period. He is showing it non-stop in the big tourneys. I think is just that due to his clunky style,midgame numbers wrestling, is hard to accept by many. I agree he's been very good but it's hard to fully acknowledge that. you're probably right that his style plays a role in that perception, but I think it's also that Ragnarok has tended to be a good, but not amazing player for so many years now that it's weird to look at the GSL standings and see that he advanced when Dark, Solar and DRG failed. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13991 Posts
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Gescom
Canada3509 Posts
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Snakestyle1
43 Posts
I find it crazy that SC2 is the only game where almost nobody plays the *best* faction, and everyone plays the *weak* faction. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4965 Posts
On March 22 2024 00:41 Snakestyle1 wrote: Only zerg that advanced was from a 3 zergs group. If Serral didnt exist, it would be clear which race is struggling by looking at ladder on every server, GSL, and every ESL cups, and every tournaments. I find it crazy that SC2 is the only game where almost nobody plays the *best* faction, and everyone plays the *weak* faction. What are you talking about, Solar (a zerg) won the last GSL | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On March 22 2024 00:41 Snakestyle1 wrote: Only zerg that advanced was from a 3 zergs group. If Serral didnt exist, it would be clear which race is struggling by looking at ladder on every server, GSL, and every ESL cups, and every tournaments. I find it crazy that SC2 is the only game where almost nobody plays the *best* faction, and everyone plays the *weak* faction. Way to use ONE single data point to make your point while dis-regarding the rest of them, being Zerg still win championship when Serral not winning it. | ||
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catplanetcatplanet
3833 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
On March 22 2024 01:34 tigera6 wrote: Way to use ONE single data point to make your point while dis-regarding the rest of them, being Zerg still win championship when Serral not winning it. I mean...Zerg was also the least represented race at Katowice. I wouldn't say Zerg is particularly weak right now, but there is definetly some drainage going on, with Reynor and Solar slumping and Dark also not looking too hot (probably because of his impending military service?) But I would atleast conclude that the entire "omg Zerg so OP needs like 300 nerfs immediately"-whines right after Katowice might be a tad overexaggerated | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On March 22 2024 13:46 Balnazza wrote: I mean...Zerg was also the least represented race at Katowice. I wouldn't say Zerg is particularly weak right now, but there is definetly some drainage going on, with Reynor and Solar slumping and Dark also not looking too hot (probably because of his impending military service?) But I would atleast conclude that the entire "omg Zerg so OP needs like 300 nerfs immediately"-whines right after Katowice might be a tad overexaggerated I don't think Zerg needs to be nerfed, but I DEFINITELY don't think Zerg needs to be buffed indirectly by nerfing the shit out of Cyclones and Widow Mines. Also tournaments NEED to do a better job of keeping blatantly Zerg favored maps out of the map pool. Maps like Ratushet Station and Pride of Aldaris should NEVER find their way into any tournament with real stakes. Those maps are so obviously Zerg favored just by their sheer concept, and yet somehow these blatantly favored maps keep finding their way into high stakes tournaments. That's not acceptable and tournaments can and should do better. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On March 22 2024 06:12 catplanetcatplanet wrote: I can't believe solar's trophy case is like 2 and a half times bigger than byun's Idk it feels pretty believable to me. Byun blew hot as the sun for a bit but Solar’s been more consistently in the mix (outside of Code S) for way longer as a span Decent day of action and good to see Ryung bringing some good games into the mix even if he ultimately failed to get out. I do somewhat fear for Protoss now we’re into the Ro8, even when they’re winning PvT rarely feels super comfortable and there’s going to be rather a lot of it coming up! | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
On March 22 2024 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: I don't think Zerg needs to be nerfed, but I DEFINITELY don't think Zerg needs to be buffed indirectly by nerfing the shit out of Cyclones and Widow Mines. Also tournaments NEED to do a better job of keeping blatantly Zerg favored maps out of the map pool. Maps like Ratushet Station and Pride of Aldaris should NEVER find their way into any tournament with real stakes. Those maps are so obviously Zerg favored just by their sheer concept, and yet somehow these blatantly favored maps keep finding their way into high stakes tournaments. That's not acceptable and tournaments can and should do better. According to Liquipedia, Zerg has negative stats on Radhuset Station though? Like only a slight positive against Terran (~52%), but kind of bad against Protoss (~45%) | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On March 22 2024 22:19 Balnazza wrote: According to Liquipedia, Zerg has negative stats on Radhuset Station though? Like only a slight positive against Terran (~52%), but kind of bad against Protoss (~45%) Yea it's a shame that Liquipedia doesn't track veto numbers, which is the much more telling stat. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
On March 23 2024 00:28 Vindicare605 wrote: Yea it's a shame that Liquipedia doesn't track veto numbers, which is the much more telling stat. I mean, sure, though that already makes it unclearer. Idk, if I think about a highly unbalanced map I usually just picture things like Lost Temple in WC3 back in the day, with absurd winrates for Human and especially Orc vs. Undead in teamleagues (though the numbers might be wrong, for example Orc has a 100% winrate against Undead in the 3rd NGL Season). That's "blatantly favored" for me. Not...that above. | ||
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tigera6
3465 Posts
On March 22 2024 22:19 Balnazza wrote: According to Liquipedia, Zerg has negative stats on Radhuset Station though? Like only a slight positive against Terran (~52%), but kind of bad against Protoss (~45%) And that is correct, Protoss love that map against Zerg and even Terran. And while 52% is not a big deal, we all watch the games and realize the major issue with it, and with not too many games played on that map a few outliers could really change the ratio there. Btw, base on liquidpedia, Terran has bad winrate in TvZ for Equilibrium, Golden Aura, Site Delta and Solaris (45% or below), with Hecate being the best TvZ map at 56%, followed by Ocean Born and Alcyone (52%). | ||
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