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Reynor vs Astrea again lmao
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Now discrediting Ryung's TvZ aside, I think the meta in that matchup is appalling. The last patch ultimately made PvZ enjoyable but didn't do anything for TvZ. We just have people trying to turtle to ghost mech every other game now.
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Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing).
And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds 
Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika
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United States33708 Posts
On July 30 2022 23:14 Durnuu wrote:Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing). And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika
why don't u start ur own tournament series without EPT points called "gnomestory cup" and just handseed all the players 
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On July 30 2022 23:30 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 23:14 Durnuu wrote:Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing). And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika why don't u start ur own tournament series without EPT points called "gnomestory cup" and just handseed all the players
What a mature and level-headed response. Extra funny that you want me to handseed all the players when my main criticism is not with the differing strength of the players but something more objective - the region they qualified from.
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United States33708 Posts
On July 30 2022 23:40 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 23:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:14 Durnuu wrote:Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing). And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika why don't u start ur own tournament series without EPT points called "gnomestory cup" and just handseed all the players What a mature and level-headed response. Extra funny that you want me to handseed all the players when my main criticism is not with the differing strength of the players but something more objective - the region they qualified from.
also solvable with handseeding!
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On July 30 2022 23:47 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 23:40 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:14 Durnuu wrote:Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing). And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika why don't u start ur own tournament series without EPT points called "gnomestory cup" and just handseed all the players What a mature and level-headed response. Extra funny that you want me to handseed all the players when my main criticism is not with the differing strength of the players but something more objective - the region they qualified from. also solvable with handseeding!
Yeah, but why would I be like Apollo and rig my brackets if I have something more objective to base the seeding off of? 
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United States33708 Posts
On July 30 2022 23:48 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 23:47 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:40 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:14 Durnuu wrote:Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing). And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika why don't u start ur own tournament series without EPT points called "gnomestory cup" and just handseed all the players What a mature and level-headed response. Extra funny that you want me to handseed all the players when my main criticism is not with the differing strength of the players but something more objective - the region they qualified from. also solvable with handseeding! Yeah, but why would I be like Apollo and rig my brackets if I have something more objective to base the seeding off of?
but those are the EPT points this bracket is seeded off of 
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On July 30 2022 23:50 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 23:48 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:47 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:40 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:14 Durnuu wrote:Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing). And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika why don't u start ur own tournament series without EPT points called "gnomestory cup" and just handseed all the players What a mature and level-headed response. Extra funny that you want me to handseed all the players when my main criticism is not with the differing strength of the players but something more objective - the region they qualified from. also solvable with handseeding! Yeah, but why would I be like Apollo and rig my brackets if I have something more objective to base the seeding off of? but those are the EPT points this bracket is seeded off of
Which makes no sense for an international tournament, since EPT points basically have two different circuits.
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United States33708 Posts
On July 30 2022 23:51 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 23:50 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:48 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:47 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:40 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:14 Durnuu wrote:Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing). And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika why don't u start ur own tournament series without EPT points called "gnomestory cup" and just handseed all the players What a mature and level-headed response. Extra funny that you want me to handseed all the players when my main criticism is not with the differing strength of the players but something more objective - the region they qualified from. also solvable with handseeding! Yeah, but why would I be like Apollo and rig my brackets if I have something more objective to base the seeding off of? but those are the EPT points this bracket is seeded off of Which makes no sense for an international tournament, since EPT points basically have two different circuits.
glad u noticed that after 2.5 years and 20 tournaments
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On July 30 2022 23:47 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Maru 1-1 Rattata O.o
Till this day, I still dont get why Maru keep moving out against 1-1 Roach army while he wasn maxed out
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On July 30 2022 23:52 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 23:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:50 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:48 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:47 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:40 Durnuu wrote:On July 30 2022 23:30 Waxangel wrote:On July 30 2022 23:14 Durnuu wrote:Man, this bracket is really badly seeded. Not only the top vs bottom half that a lot of people already pointed out, but quite a few same region matches (Time vs Meomaika, DRG vs GuMiho, Elazer vs Showtime, Byun vs Classic...) in the first round, which feels stupid in a tournament where you had REGIONAL qualifiers (and yes, I did make sure the players came from the same regional qualifier before criticizing). And the worst seeding goes to Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, which makes it a KR vs KR into KR vs KR in both the winner and the losers bracket, in the first two rounds Like, imagine if the format instead was a classic group stage. You get a Clem-Serral-soO-Solar group, and then you get a 4 korean group with Ragnarok, Zoun, DRG and Gumiho, and on the other side you have Creator-Rex-TIME-Meomaika why don't u start ur own tournament series without EPT points called "gnomestory cup" and just handseed all the players What a mature and level-headed response. Extra funny that you want me to handseed all the players when my main criticism is not with the differing strength of the players but something more objective - the region they qualified from. also solvable with handseeding! Yeah, but why would I be like Apollo and rig my brackets if I have something more objective to base the seeding off of? but those are the EPT points this bracket is seeded off of Which makes no sense for an international tournament, since EPT points basically have two different circuits. glad u noticed that after 2.5 years and 20 tournaments
2.5 years during which there were all those online DH Masters and there hasn't been a single instance of more than 2 players from the same region in the same group.
Or is TSL is the only international tournament to seed with EPT points?
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Why is Elazer upgrading melee attack if he's dependent on Hydralisks?
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Holy shit that Stasis Trap though.
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On July 30 2022 23:13 Elentos wrote:
Now discrediting Ryung's TvZ aside, I think the meta in that matchup is appalling. The last patch ultimately made PvZ enjoyable but didn't do anything for TvZ. We just have people trying to turtle to ghost mech every other game now.
I might be wrong about this, but I think it'll be impossible to fix TvZ without making changes that will implicate other matchups in a big way. Ideally, late game Terran turtle would be a little weaker and Terran would have an easier time dealing damage in the early/mid game, but doing that would probably involve touching the Queen, Ghost, and maybe even some core Zerg units like the baneling. PvZ would 100% need to be rebalanced too, and PvT would probably need further changes. Considering the lack of resources dedicated to SC2 right now, such a major change feels out of reach even if it's needed.
By contrast, the queen nerf had very little impact on match ups other than PvZ and the void ray nerf only really impacted PvZ and PvP. I'd support tackling the queen issue once and for all, but that's such a can of worms there would probably have to be multiple follow up patches shortly after. For the time being I guess we can just hope for maps that are small and hard to split, though those two goals are often in conflict.
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On July 31 2022 00:24 dysenterymd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2022 23:13 Elentos wrote:
Now discrediting Ryung's TvZ aside, I think the meta in that matchup is appalling. The last patch ultimately made PvZ enjoyable but didn't do anything for TvZ. We just have people trying to turtle to ghost mech every other game now. I might be wrong about this, but I think it'll be impossible to fix TvZ without making changes that will implicate other matchups in a big way. Ideally, late game Terran turtle would be a little weaker and Terran would have an easier time dealing damage in the early/mid game, but doing that would probably involve touching the Queen, Ghost, and maybe even some core Zerg units like the baneling. PvZ would 100% need to be rebalanced too, and PvT would probably need further changes. Considering the lack of resources dedicated to SC2 right now, such a major change feels out of reach even if it's needed. By contrast, the queen nerf had very little impact on match ups other than PvZ and the void ray nerf only really impacted PvZ and PvP. I'd support tackling the queen issue once and for all, but that's such a can of worms there would probably have to be multiple follow up patches shortly after. For the time being I guess we can just hope for maps that are small and hard to split, though those two goals are often in conflict.
Small hard to split maps = two base push all game every game.
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It's hard to do for sure. I'd like for TvZ to be in a more similar state to PvZ now but it's going to be difficult to change anything without affecting the Protoss interactions.
Maybe for starters we can revert the drilling claws nerf from last patch that wasn't needed at all and then slightly tone down snipe
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On July 31 2022 00:35 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2022 00:24 dysenterymd wrote:On July 30 2022 23:13 Elentos wrote:
Now discrediting Ryung's TvZ aside, I think the meta in that matchup is appalling. The last patch ultimately made PvZ enjoyable but didn't do anything for TvZ. We just have people trying to turtle to ghost mech every other game now. I might be wrong about this, but I think it'll be impossible to fix TvZ without making changes that will implicate other matchups in a big way. Ideally, late game Terran turtle would be a little weaker and Terran would have an easier time dealing damage in the early/mid game, but doing that would probably involve touching the Queen, Ghost, and maybe even some core Zerg units like the baneling. PvZ would 100% need to be rebalanced too, and PvT would probably need further changes. Considering the lack of resources dedicated to SC2 right now, such a major change feels out of reach even if it's needed. By contrast, the queen nerf had very little impact on match ups other than PvZ and the void ray nerf only really impacted PvZ and PvP. I'd support tackling the queen issue once and for all, but that's such a can of worms there would probably have to be multiple follow up patches shortly after. For the time being I guess we can just hope for maps that are small and hard to split, though those two goals are often in conflict. Small hard to split maps = two base push all game every game.
Yeah I'm not sure what the community really expects with making it harder for Ts to win late game. They already basically can't win in the mid game. Nerfing late game via balance patches or maps just leads to Ts going for early all ins
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If zergs dont want T getting to late game why dont they just listen to their favorite piece of advice we heard for years about zerg lategame
"Dont let them get there"
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EPT
