Super Tournament 3
Streams & Casters
Format
- Single-elimination bracket:
- Round of 16 are Bo5.
- Quarterfinals are Bo5.
- Semifinals are Bo5.
- Finals are Bo7.
Map Pool
Round of 16
Results
CSS: FO-nTTaX
Awesomeness: Panda
Banner: GSL
Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51320 Posts
Super Tournament 3Streams & CastersFormat
Map Pool Round of 16ResultsCSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
Niravroh
165 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2298 Posts
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Duckman
United States158 Posts
Heart: Ryung, Solar, Maru, her0 | ||
Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
Heart: Zoun, Solar, Maru, her0 | ||
Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17430 Posts
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tigera6
2901 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2298 Posts
EDIT: Great comeback from Zoun. | ||
Durnuu
13269 Posts
On November 25 2021 17:41 swarminfestor wrote: Who didn't see that Ryung will 3-0 Zoun today? We had two reverse sweeps on Monday, who knows, we might get a third one | ||
tigera6
2901 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 17:42 Durnuu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 17:41 swarminfestor wrote: Who didn't see that Ryung will 3-0 Zoun today? We had two reverse sweeps on Monday, who knows, we might get a third one Well the Zoun who missed 4 consecutive disruptor shots on sieged tanks last game isn't gonna reverse sweep anyone so there's that. | ||
Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On November 25 2021 17:42 tigera6 wrote: The way Zoun playing, he clearly expected a 2-base push from Ryung. Thats why he delayed the 3rd Nexus, lower Probe count and make more units to defend, then counter to finish the game. Instead Ryung keep macro-ing up his 3rd CC and delay the push till he nearly max out his army. He always delays everything but army in PvT | ||
darklycid
3132 Posts
Time for classic to upset Maru later. | ||
Durnuu
13269 Posts
On November 25 2021 17:47 darklycid wrote: Hey where is my protoss dominance in super tournament This is the real marker of Protoss weakness right there | ||
Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
Nvm. He does have a forge. | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
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darklycid
3132 Posts
On November 25 2021 17:50 Durnuu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 17:47 darklycid wrote: Hey where is my protoss dominance in super tournament This is the real marker of Protoss weakness right there When we don't have our super tournaments what do we have Zoun making a good comeback here reverse sweep inc? | ||
Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
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-YoricK-
United States476 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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TearsOfTheSun_
8 Posts
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atrox_
United Kingdom1706 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 18:04 TearsOfTheSun_ wrote: is this day 2? It sure is. | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 18:17 Vindicare605 wrote: Good series. Every series in this tournament so far has been good except the Rogue one. Go figure. | ||
SenorChang
Australia4729 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2701 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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darklycid
3132 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
On November 25 2021 18:32 Mozdk wrote: I've been waiting years to finally see a progamer making a stargate to kill trapped medivacs. If only every Protoss would do stuff like this, Protoss would win more Code S tournaments. I'm not even exxagerating. It's that lack of attention to detail that keeps Protoss in the dog house. | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
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tigera6
2901 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17430 Posts
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FataLe
New Zealand4399 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4724 Posts
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TearsOfTheSun_
8 Posts
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tigera6
2901 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 19:02 tigera6 wrote: Terran need to start taking that linear 3rd against Roach-Ravager at this rate. That triangle 3rd get fully 180-deg surrounded is super hard to hold. You take your 3rd before you know if they're gonna commit to a big timing. You can't really waste time flying the CC around as a response and if it's not a 1/1 roach-ravager timing the linear base is just worse. Also on the linear base you have to spread really far as well so they can't just walk into your natural. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Durnuu
13269 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
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Durnuu
13269 Posts
On November 25 2021 19:27 Elentos wrote: Everyone out here having amazing matches and then there's Rogue and Solar who just hate fun. Zerg players that aren't Dark are like that. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
On November 25 2021 19:28 Durnuu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 19:27 Elentos wrote: Everyone out here having amazing matches and then there's Rogue and Solar who just hate fun. Zerg players that aren't Dark are like that. That's why Dark is my boy. As stressful as it is to watch him sometimes. | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 19:32 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 19:28 Durnuu wrote: On November 25 2021 19:27 Elentos wrote: Everyone out here having amazing matches and then there's Rogue and Solar who just hate fun. Zerg players that aren't Dark are like that. That's why Dark is my boy. As stressful as it is to watch him sometimes. Nothing better than watching Dark try to dig his way out of a massive hole he threw himself into with his own choices in the early game. And him learning nothing from it and doing it again and again. | ||
Poopi
France12463 Posts
It got one hour earlier with European Winter Time, I guess they also have winter time but it happened later so it's another hour earlier? :x | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 19:42 Poopi wrote: Because it's Super Tournament, they don't use the Code S start time for it.Why is GSL suddenly so early? It got one hour earlier with European Winter Time, I guess they also have winter time but it happened later so it's another hour earlier? :x | ||
Durnuu
13269 Posts
On November 25 2021 19:42 Poopi wrote: Why is GSL suddenly so early? It got one hour earlier with European Winter Time, I guess they also have winter time but it happened later so it's another hour earlier? :x Super Tournament always starts at this hour (+/- one hour for those of us who have summer/winter time) | ||
Poopi
France12463 Posts
Seems like Zoun vs Ryung was fun but the TvZ wasn't, will still catch up but eh :x | ||
tigera6
2901 Posts
On November 25 2021 19:04 Elentos wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 19:02 tigera6 wrote: Terran need to start taking that linear 3rd against Roach-Ravager at this rate. That triangle 3rd get fully 180-deg surrounded is super hard to hold. You take your 3rd before you know if they're gonna commit to a big timing. You can't really waste time flying the CC around as a response and if it's not a 1/1 roach-ravager timing the linear base is just worse. Also on the linear base you have to spread really far as well so they can't just walk into your natural. its not like you are building the 3rd on-location as Terran, its a matter of where you want to land depending on what information you have scouted from Zerg. I just think for this particular map, the 1/1 Roach timing is so powerful that you need to take extra precaution as Terran when you see Roach on the field. I have seen Dark and Serral does the same thing against Maru on this map and there was nothing he could do other than lifting the CC either back to the back or to the linear 3rd, | ||
tigera6
2901 Posts
On November 25 2021 19:42 Poopi wrote: Why is GSL suddenly so early? It got one hour earlier with European Winter Time, I guess they also have winter time but it happened later so it's another hour earlier? :x I believe its because there are 4 Bo5 so they have to start early. | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
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Poopi
France12463 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:04 Poopi wrote: Maru stop toying with your food and finish him off Struggling cause Classic's upgrades are way better. As long as the colossi are alive the fights are hard for Maru. | ||
Poopi
France12463 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:07 Elentos wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 20:04 Poopi wrote: Maru stop toying with your food and finish him off Struggling cause Classic's upgrades are way better. As long as the colossi are alive the fights are hard for Maru. Yeah the constant harass of Classic hurt Maru's eco for sure edit: is that Ryung helping Maru? :D | ||
Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:08 Poopi wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 20:07 Elentos wrote: On November 25 2021 20:04 Poopi wrote: Maru stop toying with your food and finish him off Struggling cause Classic's upgrades are way better. As long as the colossi are alive the fights are hard for Maru. Yeah the constant harass of Classic hurt Maru's eco for sure edit: is that Ryung helping Maru? :D Prime Terrans sticking together. You love to see it. | ||
Durnuu
13269 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:10 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 20:08 Poopi wrote: On November 25 2021 20:07 Elentos wrote: On November 25 2021 20:04 Poopi wrote: Maru stop toying with your food and finish him off Struggling cause Classic's upgrades are way better. As long as the colossi are alive the fights are hard for Maru. Yeah the constant harass of Classic hurt Maru's eco for sure edit: is that Ryung helping Maru? :D Prime Terrans sticking together. You love to see it. Did you just call Ryung a prime terran | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:12 Durnuu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 20:10 Vindicare605 wrote: On November 25 2021 20:08 Poopi wrote: On November 25 2021 20:07 Elentos wrote: On November 25 2021 20:04 Poopi wrote: Maru stop toying with your food and finish him off Struggling cause Classic's upgrades are way better. As long as the colossi are alive the fights are hard for Maru. Yeah the constant harass of Classic hurt Maru's eco for sure edit: is that Ryung helping Maru? :D Prime Terrans sticking together. You love to see it. Did you just call Ryung a prime terran Don't let that distract you from the fact that we saw Ryung earlier today and he wasn't wearing whatever that guy was wearing. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:12 Durnuu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 20:10 Vindicare605 wrote: On November 25 2021 20:08 Poopi wrote: On November 25 2021 20:07 Elentos wrote: On November 25 2021 20:04 Poopi wrote: Maru stop toying with your food and finish him off Struggling cause Classic's upgrades are way better. As long as the colossi are alive the fights are hard for Maru. Yeah the constant harass of Classic hurt Maru's eco for sure edit: is that Ryung helping Maru? :D Prime Terrans sticking together. You love to see it. Did you just call Ryung a prime terran I did. That was his first team. Once a Prime Terran, always a Prime Terran. | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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Spinoza
666 Posts
Tip of the hat to the mapmaker. | ||
darklycid
3132 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
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darklycid
3132 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:26 Elentos wrote: Classic's mechanics are a disaster, his game sense is still that of a star player though. Guess some more time is still needed but i think he could basically replace zest once he is gone. | ||
Argonauta
Spain4724 Posts
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Poopi
France12463 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:26 Vindicare605 wrote: Maru is too used to dealing with this from Parting and Trap at this point. Yeah I think he can handle that from both PartinG (the blink thing) and Trap (the early storm HT thing), so no way he does worse vs Classic. Clean series from Maru, he looks in good form. If herO beats Zest it's almost free for Maru, and if Zest wins I would still favor Maru nowadays | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:24 darklycid wrote: So barring a reverse sweep we get 3/3/2 in ro8 which is pretty nicely balanced (except it's super tournament and a balanced ro8 means protoss weak ) I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 Protoss in the RO4 though. Trap v Cure is winnable for Trap, herO/Zest v Maru can be won if Maru provides the usual ST Maru and Solar v Zoun - I dare to say Zoun is the favorite there | ||
Nakajin
Canada8759 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:32 Nakajin wrote: I think if you are Harstem or Zest/herO you are not too discorage by the serie? I'd say at least herO could be in good spirits because he tied with Maru in WTL last week and his win came from a massive deficit. | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
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Durnuu
13269 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2298 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
On November 25 2021 15:16 Vindicare605 wrote: Heart: Zoun, Solar, Maru, her0 Well.... how about that? | ||
swarminfestor
Malaysia2298 Posts
On November 25 2021 21:15 Vindicare605 wrote: Well.... how about that? A bit sad that Ryung did not make through. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8759 Posts
On November 25 2021 21:14 swarminfestor wrote: Thanks Zest for entertaining us all this time. Good luck in military service later. At this point I'm convinced Zest made a deal with the Korean mafia to not go to the military, but now he's stuck in bed with those criminals as they force him to play SC2 tournaments 20 hours a day or they will give him to the autorities. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15707 Posts
On November 25 2021 21:18 swarminfestor wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 21:15 Vindicare605 wrote: On November 25 2021 15:16 Vindicare605 wrote: Heart: Zoun, Solar, Maru, her0 Well.... how about that? A bit sad that Ryung did not make through. When I wrote that I didn't expect much of him. He played much better than I expected although by the end of the series it really looked like Zoun had figured him out and was outclassing him at pretty much every point. | ||
tigera6
2901 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2645 Posts
On November 25 2021 21:54 tigera6 wrote: So, there is still a path for Maru to win this ST facing all Protosses all the way to the Grand Final, right? Kinda suit the narrative that Toss is OP. Also suits his narrative, that he s weak against them I think that would be the best timeline tbh Beating every Kr Protoss that is left, right After saying he s weak against them :D | ||
Nakajin
Canada8759 Posts
On November 25 2021 22:23 dbRic1203 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 21:54 tigera6 wrote: So, there is still a path for Maru to win this ST facing all Protosses all the way to the Grand Final, right? Kinda suit the narrative that Toss is OP. Also suits his narrative, that he s weak against them I think that would be the best timeline tbh Beating every Kr Protoss that is left, right After saying he s weak against them :D "I think I was very lucky to dodge terran, the match up is so luck based and dumb, it's entirely decided by the build order. I really struggle with it at the moment" Mari after winning ST probably | ||
Spinoza
666 Posts
On November 25 2021 20:26 Elentos wrote: Classic's mechanics are a disaster, his game sense is still that of a star player though. Oh yes, I agree. His mechanics were weak here .. he used to be stellar in that department too. My view of him is that he played the cleanest and most elegant style of Protoss and I expect a lot from him going forward. | ||
dbRic1203
Germany2645 Posts
On November 25 2021 22:34 Nakajin wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2021 22:23 dbRic1203 wrote: On November 25 2021 21:54 tigera6 wrote: So, there is still a path for Maru to win this ST facing all Protosses all the way to the Grand Final, right? Kinda suit the narrative that Toss is OP. Also suits his narrative, that he s weak against them I think that would be the best timeline tbh Beating every Kr Protoss that is left, right After saying he s weak against them :D "I think I was very lucky to dodge terran, the match up is so luck based and dumb, it's entirely decided by the build order. I really struggle with it at the moment" Mari after winning ST probably "I only won, because TY is in the militarry " | ||
MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24187 Posts
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Pandain
United States12859 Posts
Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. | ||
FataLe
New Zealand4399 Posts
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JJH777
United States4277 Posts
On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. Maru played Serral in March of 2018 and 3-0'd him in a match with $200k on the line. This was after Serral had already won a WCS and got top 4 in IEM being the only player to beat Rogue during that IEM. | ||
Poopi
France12463 Posts
On November 27 2021 09:02 JJH777 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. Maru played Serral in March of 2018 and 3-0'd him in a match with $200k on the line. This was after Serral had already won a WCS and got top 4 in IEM being the only player to beat Rogue during that IEM. Indeed (the 200k$ wasn’t on the line directly though since they played in quarters, but still!) And some people argue that Serral didn’t reach his peak yet at that WESG 2017 (but played in 2018), except that Serral lost to Classic at the previous IEM, but managed to beat him 3-1 in WESG, so he was still in his godlike form. There were ravens but other top zergs Dark and Rogue both showed that they could beat Maru at the time, so balance was not really an issue. Alas, TvP was kinda horrible in macro games forcing the terran to gamble with early builds, and Maru got completely blindsided by his teammate sOs, so we will never know what would have happened if they played in the finals of BlizzCon. | ||
Pandain
United States12859 Posts
On November 27 2021 09:02 JJH777 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. Maru played Serral in March of 2018 and 3-0'd him in a match with $200k on the line. This was after Serral had already won a WCS and got top 4 in IEM being the only player to beat Rogue during that IEM. I'm pretty sure absolutely no one considers the "reign of serral" to be as early as March. You can debate where it starts later but that's not the time period we are talking about. Also I didn't mention it but the other complicating factor is that even though Maru was the god of GSL he repeatedly (and sometimes embarassingly - see Blizzcon quarterfinals) lost in other tournaments. This is different - Maru is just winning repeatedly. Of course its still *just* three tournaments - but that's still insane. Anyway, my point is not to rehash the 2018 Maru vs. Serral debate - but to focus on the fact that if Maru wins his next big tournament (esp. if he wins his next two) - I would say that is more dominant than anytime he's ever been (even if his 4 GSLs are more "impressive"). | ||
JJH777
United States4277 Posts
On November 27 2021 09:46 Pandain wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 09:02 JJH777 wrote: On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. Maru played Serral in March of 2018 and 3-0'd him in a match with $200k on the line. This was after Serral had already won a WCS and got top 4 in IEM being the only player to beat Rogue during that IEM. I'm pretty sure absolutely no one considers the "reign of serral" to be as early as March. You can debate where it starts later but that's not the time period we are talking about. Also I didn't mention it but the other complicating factor is that even though Maru was the god of GSL he repeatedly (and sometimes embarassingly - see Blizzcon quarterfinals) lost in other tournaments. This is different - Maru is just winning repeatedly. Of course its still *just* three tournaments - but that's still insane. When people talk about Serral's 2018 dominance they don't specify the second half of the year. In many ways his first WCS was the most impressive. He was never even close to being eliminated and got the same map score as season 2 with a harder bracket. In the seasons after 2 he would go to match point several times. That IEM top 4 was also a better run than his first GSL vs the world. Beating rogue/zest/trap/neeb/impact/nerchio is harder than beating Stats/Dark/Inno/Kelazhur. I still think Maru's 2018 is far more impressive than this current streak (and more impressive than Serral's 2018 as well) despite his losses at some big moments. Serral not playing Maru during his peak hurts his 2018 just as much as the reverse. | ||
Pandain
United States12859 Posts
On November 27 2021 10:04 JJH777 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 09:46 Pandain wrote: On November 27 2021 09:02 JJH777 wrote: On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. Maru played Serral in March of 2018 and 3-0'd him in a match with $200k on the line. This was after Serral had already won a WCS and got top 4 in IEM being the only player to beat Rogue during that IEM. I'm pretty sure absolutely no one considers the "reign of serral" to be as early as March. You can debate where it starts later but that's not the time period we are talking about. Also I didn't mention it but the other complicating factor is that even though Maru was the god of GSL he repeatedly (and sometimes embarassingly - see Blizzcon quarterfinals) lost in other tournaments. This is different - Maru is just winning repeatedly. Of course its still *just* three tournaments - but that's still insane. When people talk about Serral's 2018 dominance they don't specify the second half of the year. In many ways his first WCS was the most impressive. He was never even close to being eliminated and got the same map score as season 2 with a harder bracket. In the seasons after 2 he would go to match point several times. That IEM top 4 was also a better run than his first GSL vs the world. Beating rogue/zest/trap/neeb/impact/nerchio is harder than beating Stats/Dark/Inno/Kelazhur. I still think Maru's 2018 is far more impressive than this current streak (and more impressive than Serral's 2018 as well) despite his losses at some big moments. Serral not playing Maru during his peak hurts his 2018 just as much as the reverse. I won't rehash the Maru/Serral debate + Show Spoiler + except to say that Serral would have loved to play Maru but Maru kept losing and Serral kept winning | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
Did I get the 2018 debate precisely right? | ||
Nakajin
Canada8759 Posts
On November 27 2021 18:01 deacon.frost wrote: The most dominant year ever! March. THAT DOES NOT COUNT!#!#$!!!! Did I get the 2018 debate precisely right? You can peak at a certain point in the year (from Mai to the end of the year for Serral, a period where he drop a single series of Starcraft might I remind you, going 70-1) and still be have the most dominant overall year ever. You just need to have a better year than anyone ever had. INno was/is considered the most dominant player of 2013 compared to his peers even if he had a lacklusters back half. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On November 27 2021 20:49 Nakajin wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 18:01 deacon.frost wrote: The most dominant year ever! March. THAT DOES NOT COUNT!#!#$!!!! Did I get the 2018 debate precisely right? You can peak at a certain point in the year (from Mai to the end of the year for Serral, a period where he drop a single series of Starcraft might I remind you, going 70-1) and still be have the most dominant overall year ever. You just need to have a better year than anyone ever had. INno was/is considered the most dominant player of 2013 compared to his peers even if he had a lacklusters back half. Dude, if you write that Serral had the most dominant year 2018, that is the WHOLE year. If you wanna write he was dominating since May, that's 7 god damn months if we count the December. THat's a HALF of the year. If anybody writes he dominated 2018, then it's the whole year. Start writing half, 7 months or w/e if you don't want to count the whole 12 months of 2018. Especially if you reply with "march 2018 ddoesn't count". Check the thread FFS. What thread, check this page. the last edit> What triggers me the most is that IEM doesn't count for some reason. Do you see where I'm going? If these worshippers wouldn't go into "March doesn't count, nobody counts March, that's not his reign yet", I wouldn't go into these types of posts. hey, what do you know, it wasn't. (the last edit) | ||
Fango
United Kingdom8797 Posts
On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Maru has a claim to the worst bracket luck of all time after the atrocity that was the 2016 Code A seeding. People were saying Maru looked like the second best player in the world, and he got put against Zest (the best player) in the single-elim Code A. Which led him to lose what would otherwise have been the all-time record of 24 consecutive Code S. We'll let it slide that he got lucky in this one. | ||
Fango
United Kingdom8797 Posts
On November 27 2021 20:49 Nakajin wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 18:01 deacon.frost wrote: The most dominant year ever! March. THAT DOES NOT COUNT!#!#$!!!! Did I get the 2018 debate precisely right? You can peak at a certain point in the year (from Mai to the end of the year for Serral, a period where he drop a single series of Starcraft might I remind you, going 70-1) and still be have the most dominant overall year ever. You just need to have a better year than anyone ever had. INno was/is considered the most dominant player of 2013 compared to his peers even if he had a lacklusters back half. I like how Serral's peak starts in May and not August when he actually won an event with koreans allowed in. Winning tournaments by taking out Has in the finals isn't quite the show of dominance it's made out to be, even Reynor (the only other foreigner with a claim to be a top 10 player) couldn't play in WCS at that point. Also people ignore that he lost to soO 2-0 during the meantime (offline as well). | ||
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 28 2021 00:12 Fango wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 20:49 Nakajin wrote: On November 27 2021 18:01 deacon.frost wrote: The most dominant year ever! March. THAT DOES NOT COUNT!#!#$!!!! Did I get the 2018 debate precisely right? You can peak at a certain point in the year (from Mai to the end of the year for Serral, a period where he drop a single series of Starcraft might I remind you, going 70-1) and still be have the most dominant overall year ever. You just need to have a better year than anyone ever had. INno was/is considered the most dominant player of 2013 compared to his peers even if he had a lacklusters back half. I like how Serral's peak starts in May and not August when he actually won an event with koreans allowed in. Winning tournaments by taking out Has in the finals isn't quite the show of dominance it's made out to be, even Reynor (the only other foreigner with a claim to be a top 10 player) couldn't play in WCS at that point. Also people ignore that he lost to soO 2-0 during the meantime (offline as well). Will you guys ever learn? You won't. Serral won every tournament he entered in the second half of 2018 and didn't drop any offline series single series from that loss to soO(which is not included in Serral's streak of dominance, only the online loss to Neeb before BlizzCon is) to the loss to Inno 10 months later at Katowice 2019. When Maru beat Serral, at WESG, the latter hadn't won a single tournament against koreans in his whole career, despite having already become capable of beating them as the ro4 at Katowice and the third place at WESG show. You could be impressed by Maru's dominance in Code S in 2018(the fourth Code S was obviously won in 2019 and Maru wasn't really that dominant outside of Code S) but it's crystal clear who was the most dominant player that year, it was Serral by any metric. Also, Maru's current performance in November is amazing but his successes don't have enough prestige to eclipse his accomplishments in 2018. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20686 Posts
On November 27 2021 10:13 Pandain wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 10:04 JJH777 wrote: On November 27 2021 09:46 Pandain wrote: On November 27 2021 09:02 JJH777 wrote: On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. Maru played Serral in March of 2018 and 3-0'd him in a match with $200k on the line. This was after Serral had already won a WCS and got top 4 in IEM being the only player to beat Rogue during that IEM. I'm pretty sure absolutely no one considers the "reign of serral" to be as early as March. You can debate where it starts later but that's not the time period we are talking about. Also I didn't mention it but the other complicating factor is that even though Maru was the god of GSL he repeatedly (and sometimes embarassingly - see Blizzcon quarterfinals) lost in other tournaments. This is different - Maru is just winning repeatedly. Of course its still *just* three tournaments - but that's still insane. When people talk about Serral's 2018 dominance they don't specify the second half of the year. In many ways his first WCS was the most impressive. He was never even close to being eliminated and got the same map score as season 2 with a harder bracket. In the seasons after 2 he would go to match point several times. That IEM top 4 was also a better run than his first GSL vs the world. Beating rogue/zest/trap/neeb/impact/nerchio is harder than beating Stats/Dark/Inno/Kelazhur. I still think Maru's 2018 is far more impressive than this current streak (and more impressive than Serral's 2018 as well) despite his losses at some big moments. Serral not playing Maru during his peak hurts his 2018 just as much as the reverse. I won't rehash the Maru/Serral debate + Show Spoiler + except to say that Serral would have loved to play Maru but Maru kept losing and Serral kept winning I would echo this, it’s a vibe thing. 4 GSLs is a better achievement, but he’s got a real killer aura at the minute and is absolutely battering the best of the best in all three matchups consistently. Even in GSL across that span he was a killer, but you could still envisage him losing, and of course he lost in other tournaments during that span. Right now, my gut and brain just align into a ‘Maru wins’ regardless of who he’s playing. I don’t think there have actually been that many grimy dominant periods across SC2, to this degree, especially if he stretches it out further. When Inno really hit his stride in 2013 he had that aura to him, Serral had his stellar 2018 and Maru’s showing similar chops. Before anyone jumps on me, you can still win and accomplish as much, if not more and not have that sheen of dominance on you, and it’s quite subjective, hell Inno managed to lose a GSL final while (IMO) at his peak relative to the competition, it’s the feeling of almost inevitability of the result when tuning in to watch a player, and the subsequent ‘Jesus how do you beat this guy?’ feeling afterwards. | ||
Poopi
France12463 Posts
On November 28 2021 05:44 WombaT wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2021 10:13 Pandain wrote: On November 27 2021 10:04 JJH777 wrote: On November 27 2021 09:46 Pandain wrote: On November 27 2021 09:02 JJH777 wrote: On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. Maru played Serral in March of 2018 and 3-0'd him in a match with $200k on the line. This was after Serral had already won a WCS and got top 4 in IEM being the only player to beat Rogue during that IEM. I'm pretty sure absolutely no one considers the "reign of serral" to be as early as March. You can debate where it starts later but that's not the time period we are talking about. Also I didn't mention it but the other complicating factor is that even though Maru was the god of GSL he repeatedly (and sometimes embarassingly - see Blizzcon quarterfinals) lost in other tournaments. This is different - Maru is just winning repeatedly. Of course its still *just* three tournaments - but that's still insane. When people talk about Serral's 2018 dominance they don't specify the second half of the year. In many ways his first WCS was the most impressive. He was never even close to being eliminated and got the same map score as season 2 with a harder bracket. In the seasons after 2 he would go to match point several times. That IEM top 4 was also a better run than his first GSL vs the world. Beating rogue/zest/trap/neeb/impact/nerchio is harder than beating Stats/Dark/Inno/Kelazhur. I still think Maru's 2018 is far more impressive than this current streak (and more impressive than Serral's 2018 as well) despite his losses at some big moments. Serral not playing Maru during his peak hurts his 2018 just as much as the reverse. I won't rehash the Maru/Serral debate + Show Spoiler + except to say that Serral would have loved to play Maru but Maru kept losing and Serral kept winning I would echo this, it’s a vibe thing. 4 GSLs is a better achievement, but he’s got a real killer aura at the minute and is absolutely battering the best of the best in all three matchups consistently. Even in GSL across that span he was a killer, but you could still envisage him losing, and of course he lost in other tournaments during that span. Right now, my gut and brain just align into a ‘Maru wins’ regardless of who he’s playing. I don’t think there have actually been that many grimy dominant periods across SC2, to this degree, especially if he stretches it out further. When Inno really hit his stride in 2013 he had that aura to him, Serral had his stellar 2018 and Maru’s showing similar chops. Before anyone jumps on me, you can still win and accomplish as much, if not more and not have that sheen of dominance on you, and it’s quite subjective, hell Inno managed to lose a GSL final while (IMO) at his peak relative to the competition, it’s the feeling of almost inevitability of the result when tuning in to watch a player, and the subsequent ‘Jesus how do you beat this guy?’ feeling afterwards. That’s expected since terran in 2018 was flat out bad and carried single handedly by Maru. Now there are more terrans doing well / it’s more balanced. Therefore if Maru is in god mode he will look unbeatable; whereas god mod Maru in 2018 looked like the only hope for terran at every tournament, but not unbeatable. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20686 Posts
On November 28 2021 05:50 Poopi wrote: Show nested quote + On November 28 2021 05:44 WombaT wrote: On November 27 2021 10:13 Pandain wrote: On November 27 2021 10:04 JJH777 wrote: On November 27 2021 09:46 Pandain wrote: On November 27 2021 09:02 JJH777 wrote: On November 27 2021 07:35 Pandain wrote: I feel like Maru doesn't normally get bracket luck but he certainly did this tournament - top 4 quarterfinalists are EACH stronger than anyone in the lower half other than Maru. Also if Maru wins this tournament I'd say this is the most *dominant* he's ever been in SC2 history. The obvious counterpoint is 2018 but the problem there is that he never played Serral who was the only player who outshined him that year (and who had the most dominant year ever). During this ~2 months stretch though Maru has pretty much bullied and destroyed every top player - repeatedly. Maru played Serral in March of 2018 and 3-0'd him in a match with $200k on the line. This was after Serral had already won a WCS and got top 4 in IEM being the only player to beat Rogue during that IEM. I'm pretty sure absolutely no one considers the "reign of serral" to be as early as March. You can debate where it starts later but that's not the time period we are talking about. Also I didn't mention it but the other complicating factor is that even though Maru was the god of GSL he repeatedly (and sometimes embarassingly - see Blizzcon quarterfinals) lost in other tournaments. This is different - Maru is just winning repeatedly. Of course its still *just* three tournaments - but that's still insane. When people talk about Serral's 2018 dominance they don't specify the second half of the year. In many ways his first WCS was the most impressive. He was never even close to being eliminated and got the same map score as season 2 with a harder bracket. In the seasons after 2 he would go to match point several times. That IEM top 4 was also a better run than his first GSL vs the world. Beating rogue/zest/trap/neeb/impact/nerchio is harder than beating Stats/Dark/Inno/Kelazhur. I still think Maru's 2018 is far more impressive than this current streak (and more impressive than Serral's 2018 as well) despite his losses at some big moments. Serral not playing Maru during his peak hurts his 2018 just as much as the reverse. I won't rehash the Maru/Serral debate + Show Spoiler + except to say that Serral would have loved to play Maru but Maru kept losing and Serral kept winning I would echo this, it’s a vibe thing. 4 GSLs is a better achievement, but he’s got a real killer aura at the minute and is absolutely battering the best of the best in all three matchups consistently. Even in GSL across that span he was a killer, but you could still envisage him losing, and of course he lost in other tournaments during that span. Right now, my gut and brain just align into a ‘Maru wins’ regardless of who he’s playing. I don’t think there have actually been that many grimy dominant periods across SC2, to this degree, especially if he stretches it out further. When Inno really hit his stride in 2013 he had that aura to him, Serral had his stellar 2018 and Maru’s showing similar chops. Before anyone jumps on me, you can still win and accomplish as much, if not more and not have that sheen of dominance on you, and it’s quite subjective, hell Inno managed to lose a GSL final while (IMO) at his peak relative to the competition, it’s the feeling of almost inevitability of the result when tuning in to watch a player, and the subsequent ‘Jesus how do you beat this guy?’ feeling afterwards. That’s expected since terran in 2018 was flat out bad and carried single handedly by Maru. Now there are more terrans doing well / it’s more balanced. Therefore if Maru is in god mode he will look unbeatable; whereas god mod Maru in 2018 looked like the only hope for terran at every tournament, but not unbeatable. His TvT has ascended to another tier too. Albeit there’s been a few TvT killers who have departed the stage. I think counter-intuitively Maru historically does pretty well in periods where Terran is weak vs when they’re strong partly because TvT was frequently taken off the table. It also helps in a prep tournament often being the sole Terran flagbearer. Plus there were rather a lot of shenanigans and gambits in 2018, it felt like Maru was really digging deep to scrape through in any manner he could and taking huge risks that paid off. Now he’s just playing more straight-up and smacking fools. 100% not downplaying his GSL quad at all, just venerating his current level of chops. | ||
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