The Stay at Home Story Cup #4, organised by Dennis "TaKe" Gehlen, is an online tournament where TaKe invites star players from around the world to compete online.
Group Stage 1: 8 groups with 4 players each, played in Dual Tournament Format. Top 2 of each group advance to the second Group Stage. All matches are Bo3.
Group Stage 2: 4 groups with 4 players each, played in Dual Tournament Format. Top 2 of each group advance to the Playoffs. First 2 matches per Group are Bo3. All other matches are Bo5.
Playoffs Double-elimination bracket of 8 players. All matches are Bo5. For the Grand Finals a Bo5 is played. If the player coming from the winners bracket wins then that player won the match. If the player coming from the losers bracket wins that Bo5 then an additional Bo3 will be played to determine the overall winner.
Kinda strange seeing the "so far," with it starting tomorrow. (NOT bashing the OP! Just, maybe they made some really secret announcements about the rest of the invites?)
On October 20 2021 22:05 Gina wrote: Kinda strange seeing the "so far," with it starting tomorrow. (NOT bashing the OP! Just, maybe they made some really secret announcements about the rest of the invites?)
Wondering the same thing. I've been a regular on their twitter for the last few days.
I'm also wondering why I'm not at Take's bar. It's just a 5-6 hour drive after all. Every HomeStoryCup I promise myself "the next one I'll definitely visit in person"
On October 20 2021 22:05 Gina wrote: Kinda strange seeing the "so far," with it starting tomorrow. (NOT bashing the OP! Just, maybe they made some really secret announcements about the rest of the invites?)
I believe the full roster has been completed, but hide from the public viewer for the suprise factor. People who are involved (caster and players) probably know about this, including the groups, before hand already. Will see if thats true coming tomorrow.
oh shit now this is the tournament thread, was just making it so people actually know this tournament is happening
On October 20 2021 22:05 Gina wrote: Kinda strange seeing the "so far," with it starting tomorrow. (NOT bashing the OP! Just, maybe they made some really secret announcements about the rest of the invites?)
Yeah i know shit, sorry lol, also see Wax tournament hightligt: I think the rest of the players are a secret... maybe? Will update the OP when more players are announced.
Could someone post it on Reddit/starcraft, so the word gets out?
I can t be the only one, who just glimpses at this and then wait until its all on Liquipedia I d expect that Hjpalpha allready has everything done somewhere and just needs to copy it over to the actual page
On October 21 2021 00:34 SmoKim wrote: oh shit now this is the tournament thread, was just making it so people actually know this tournament is happening
On October 20 2021 22:05 Gina wrote: Kinda strange seeing the "so far," with it starting tomorrow. (NOT bashing the OP! Just, maybe they made some really secret announcements about the rest of the invites?)
Yeah i know shit, sorry lol, also see Wax tournament hightligt: I think the rest of the players are a secret... maybe? Will update the OP when more players are announced.
Could someone post it on Reddit/starcraft, so the word gets out?
Uff this is some highclass players. The only top 10 players missing (and probably declined) are Maru, Cure, Dark, Parting
Do we know who will stay at Take's yet?
EDIT: We do. It's in the other thread: Reynor, Kelazhur, Lambo, Elazer, PtitDrogo, and HeroMarine have been confirmed via TakeTV Twitter to be present live
On October 21 2021 16:59 Harris1st wrote: Uff this is some highclass players. The only top 10 players missing (and probably declined) are Maru and Dark.
Do we know who will stay at Take's yet?
Reynor, Elazer, lambo, ptitdrogo, kelazhur and heromarine
On October 21 2021 16:59 Harris1st wrote: Uff this is some highclass players. The only top 10 players missing (and probably declined) are Maru and Dark.
Do we know who will stay at Take's yet?
Reynor, Elazer, lambo, ptitdrogo, kelazhur and heromarine
Would've thought Mainstream wants A, C and F, but makes sense to show all the groups with the top European contenders too. Although F has Showtime who is the best European Protoss.
"Please note that the below listed times are Broadcast times. All groups are played at the same time." So that means the latter groups will be casted from replay? Korea playing at a decent hour, that's awesome
On October 21 2021 21:28 Poopi wrote: "Please note that the below listed times are Broadcast times. All groups are played at the same time." So that means the latter groups will be casted from replay? Korea playing at a decent hour, that's awesome
On October 21 2021 22:10 sudete wrote: I would take any patch at this point, any patch that would make pvz at least a little bit interesting to watch
For sure, I think balance wise it's in one of the best places it's been in years but it's still so boring. Midgame can be interesting but late game is almost always awful.
On October 21 2021 22:10 sudete wrote: I would take any patch at this point, any patch that would make pvz at least a little bit interesting to watch
At least it is somewhat balance. The mu has always been terrible to watch or imbalanced, I prefer the former. I am glad neeb is showing how to win late game pvz, no idea what Trap was thinking when he went for mass void ray at 25 minutes against serral, neeb's approach is the right one for sure.
I feel like Reynor doesnt have a set of strategy against a particular composition, so he just freestyling his build and try to make them work most of the time.
Very good game by Neeb, very entertaining series overall.
Since this was a good game I thought I'd tune in to o'Gaming for five seconds to see what they were saying and of course Koka was shitting on protoss because what else would you have to say as a caster during that game.
I'm not sure if there's a good reason why he never went for broodlords. At some point it was too late and he didn't have enough gas, but surely there was a point in the game where he could have done so right?
Honestly more vipers probably would have helped Reynor more than brood lords (though those would have been good too), Reynor was just getting insane value out the two he had.
On October 22 2021 02:14 Nebuchad wrote: I'm not sure if there's a good reason why he never went for broodlords. At some point it was too late and he didn't have enough gas, but surely there was a point in the game where he could have done so right?
Well, the thing was he already comitted on Lurker, and they do the same thing as Broolord pretty much. There was no real reason to weaken his own air control for something that he already got units to deal with. The issue was Reynor couldnt splitted his army well enough, ended up down 2 bases and had to yolo from a losing position.
On October 22 2021 02:12 Nebuchad wrote: Very good game by Neeb, very entertaining series overall.
Since this was a good game I thought I'd tune in to o'Gaming for five seconds to see what they were saying and of course Koka was shitting on protoss because what else would you have to say as a caster during that game.
He was not shitting on protoss, he criticized the mu and neeb passivity as Reynor was semi dead for 20 minutes. Like og caster and especially funka/tkl can be pretty borderline when it comes to judge the players but there were nothing over the top here.
Interesting groups, be sure to check some replays later. Overall Koreans look quite strong so far, is this casted from replays so the playing conditions are kinda even?
On October 22 2021 05:12 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting groups, be sure to check some replays later. Overall Koreans look quite strong so far, is this casted from replays so the playing conditions are kinda even?
On October 22 2021 05:46 AzAlexZ wrote: Rematch curse too stronk for Skillous and Dream
Rematch curse is one of the best things of SC2. The rematches usually allow the better player to come back and win but also sometimes provide us with great surprises. Love the format !
On October 22 2021 15:24 HolydaKing wrote: Incredible that Lambo won his group. Also cool to see herO advance.
herO might wanna learn how to wall off though. Otherwise every PvZ will be difficult on the new maps. :D That second game vs. Rogue was among the worst professional games I have ever seen.
On October 22 2021 21:40 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: The caster combination of RotterdaM and Lowko has become one of my favorite elements of any iteration of HSC.
I've been underestimating how much casting is important for Starcraft because I often watch at work with no sound. Rotti and Lowko were really a pleasure to listen to yesterday.
On October 22 2021 21:35 swarminfestor wrote: Clem's TvZ was shaky these days after repeatedly losing to Serral. Maybe it hurt his confidence a bit.
Maybe but the new map pool doesn't help either
This is true (+ ping), but I would say the bigger problem is that, for whatever reason, Clem hasn't ever looked unstoppable vs korean zergs like he (until last tournament) did vs Serral and Reynor
Anyone wants to figure out why Clem has been struggling against Korean Zergs? What are the Korean zergs doing that the EU zergs are not that Clem is not doing well against them? I know recently Serral beat Clem, but Clem really just beat all the other EU zergs, like Reynor.
On October 23 2021 00:02 buzz_bender wrote: Anyone wants to figure out why Clem has been struggling against Korean Zergs? What are the Korean zergs doing that the EU zergs are not that Clem is not doing well against them? I know recently Serral beat Clem, but Clem really just beat all the other EU zergs, like Reynor.
I think build order rotation is a big part of it. Clem is so fast and so good with widow mines that he's near unbeatable with ling/bane once he reaches a critical number (you can see this in the game Serral lost in the finals, he was keeping up and microing well until Clem got like 10+ widow mines and then his trades were terrible.) Even when Zerg play more standard against Clem the threat of different openings delays him getting to that point.
wow, is Rogue just on auto-mode for the first 3-4 minutes of every game? Same exact damn build against the same troll build from Clem? BCs flying around and he made ling-bane, double evo, 4th Hatch and late Spire? Like seriously, why even try if you are gonna lose just like that.
Why Classic has been back for several months, and he still play with the composition from years back? I know he was great with them, but making nothing but Immortal from the Robo is just not cutting it.
(Reynor looking at Lowko's chat.) RotterdaM: "Hey, people are commenting on your casting." Chat: "I like Reynor's casting, but not his observing." Reynor (leans into monitor): "... Can I ban them?"
How was Classic micro before going to the military? it seems like he was so out of place with his control many time today. Maybe hes not used to cross-server and his control suffer from that?
On October 23 2021 01:52 tigera6 wrote: How was Classic micro before going to the military? it seems like he was so out of place with his control many time today. Maybe hes not used to cross-server and his control suffer from that?
after herO and PartinG best micro Protoss ever imo
Zest could just swept 3-0 against Serral today. That Game 2 just felt unfortunate for Zest since he leave Zealots, Archons, and Stalkers cornered at top-right base without knowing that Serral brought all his spores along with Blords.
If Serral also got beaten out of his group, this may be the first time I have seen the top-tier Zerg players cannot advance to quarterfinals in international tournament since a long time ago.
Note that DRG advanced in which no one has expected before.
On October 23 2021 03:10 swarminfestor wrote: If Serral also got beaten out of his group, this may be the first time I have seen the top-tier Zerg players cannot advance to quarterfinals in international tournament since a long time ago.
Note that DRG advanced in which no one has expected before.
Technically, Serral didnt make it past Ro12 in IEM this year, but year, its hard to find flunk out in group stage like this since 2018.
On October 23 2021 03:10 swarminfestor wrote: If Serral also got beaten out of his group, this may be the first time I have seen the top-tier Zerg players cannot advance to quarterfinals in international tournament since a long time ago.
Note that DRG advanced in which no one has expected before.
Have we gotten so used to always seeing zerg winners that we are worried when not every single one of the top ones qualify for the championship bracket?
On October 23 2021 03:49 Calliope wrote: Have we gotten so used to always seeing zerg winners that we are worried when not every single one of the top ones qualify for the championship bracket?
I think what's more surprising is that we might not have a single one depending on whether or not Serral advances. Rogue, Reynor, and Serral all bombing out in one tournament would be a shock for sure.
Trao surely found a way to lose there, seemed unnecessary. On the other hand, Serral's ability to just not lose despite playing relatively poorly is quite impressive.
Even after all the consecutive bungles by trap it felt like he could still win if he just parked his carriers by that little nook by the ramp and killed all the drones and stormed any hydras that tried to dive on the carriers. Instead he attacked up a ramp into lurkers multiple times.
On October 23 2021 14:12 buzz_bender wrote: The Koreans are doing well this tournament, which is surprising to me. Though it wouldn't shock me if Serral ends up winning it...
Considering they cast from replays so that Koreans don’t have to play at horrible hours, it’s not that surprising actually!
Zoun will be replaced by 3rd in groupstage Lambo as he is not able to continue due to covid-vaccination side effects. He mentioned that before the tournament and I (NarutO) was willing to either see him drop out in GS1 or GS2 or bet on no heavy / no side effects. Obviously my "fault" and a bit unlucky.
Plan will be:
Zest vs Solar Serral vs ByuN DRG vs MaxPax Lambo vs Clem LR1 - 1 LR1 - 2 WB Semi 1 WB Semi 2
On October 23 2021 14:12 buzz_bender wrote: The Koreans are doing well this tournament, which is surprising to me. Though it wouldn't shock me if Serral ends up winning it...
Why surprising?
This is pretty much the lineup I expected for Ro8. I had Rogue instead of DRG and group A was a bit wonky but the others would have been my LBs
If Zoun was out, shouldnt it be logical to have Solar face Clem and Lambo face Zest per the seeding from the group? Unless it was not possible because Zest already play Lambo in GS1, or it will mess up the schedule of Solar who has to play first, but Zest vs Solar match is the first match anyway.
The game seemed bizarre with Byun kept making uncharacteristic mistakes and Serral's indecisive making situation, not teching to other units other than Lings/Banes.
Byun play the very weird style of passive-aggressive, like making lots of unit and camp out while not really expanding at home neither. And somehow that force Serral to make the weirdest response as well, what a crazy series so far.
On October 24 2021 00:15 swarminfestor wrote: I dont know why DRG did not fungal the running interceptors after casting the microbial shroud on the queens. Did he forget?
Maybe he wanted to save energy for the neural and thought it was closer to finish than it really was? I dunno, his infestor usage was weird.
On October 24 2021 00:15 swarminfestor wrote: I dont know why DRG did not fungal the running interceptors after casting the microbial shroud on the queens. Did he forget?
Maybe he wanted to save energy for the neural and thought it was closer to finish than it really was? I dunno, his infestor usage was weird.
Yeah, kind of wasting the opportunity there to cast the other spell which can decimate the interceptors.
By the way, is this the best shape form from DRG since pre-military career? Before this, he has shown struggling a lot against top-tier Protoss and Zerg players. But in this tournament, his games looked very clean and solid so far.
On October 24 2021 00:15 swarminfestor wrote: I dont know why DRG did not fungal the running interceptors after casting the microbial shroud on the queens. Did he forget?
Maybe he wanted to save energy for the neural and thought it was closer to finish than it really was? I dunno, his infestor usage was weird.
Yeah, kind of wasting the opportunity there to cast the other spell which can decimate the interceptors.
By the way, is this the best shape form from DRG since pre-military career? Before this, he has shown struggling a lot against top-tier Protoss and Zerg players. But in this tournament, his games looked very clean and solid so far.
Wouldn't bet on that yet. He played some decent Protoss, but I would still be worried if he had to play any really good Protoss next GSL season.
On October 24 2021 00:15 swarminfestor wrote: I dont know why DRG did not fungal the running interceptors after casting the microbial shroud on the queens. Did he forget?
Maybe he wanted to save energy for the neural and thought it was closer to finish than it really was? I dunno, his infestor usage was weird.
Yeah, kind of wasting the opportunity there to cast the other spell which can decimate the interceptors.
By the way, is this the best shape form from DRG since pre-military career? Before this, he has shown struggling a lot against top-tier Protoss and Zerg players. But in this tournament, his games looked very clean and solid so far.
Wouldn't bet on that yet. He played some decent Protoss, but I would still be worried if he had to play any really good Protoss next GSL season.
Good thing for DRG that unless Classic/herO shape up real fast, there will only be one really good protoss next season.
Clem's reaper build reminded of Byun during his peak days. He used them in two games of new maps against Lambo and Rogue. It won't be efficient next time.
Clem played differently from his standard and didn't look great in standard TvZ, yet he reached his first final at HSC. Now he faces Serral, I am very curious of how the series will play out after the last two at DH.
On October 24 2021 06:47 Swisslink wrote: Judging from today's performance: DRG is really dead.
Eh, this whole tournament has been a bit of a throwshow, and Serral does have that effect on players sometimes. I'm not sure we can take too much from any of the series in this tournament so far, entertaining as they've been :D
Just catch the last couple game from the replay, Zest seems to not knowing the opponent build and react accordingly cost him the series. Going for a 3rd Nexus with 8 army supplies again a potential agression build is just ridiculous. And DRG seems to have a thing with not using spell-caster ability, is it a control group issue, or he just F2 panic?
On October 24 2021 06:47 Swisslink wrote: Judging from today's performance: DRG is really dead.
Eh, this whole tournament has been a bit of a throwshow, and Serral does have that effect on players sometimes. I'm not sure we can take too much from any of the series in this tournament so far, entertaining as they've been :D
Well, you were right, apparently. The trend continues today. I was not as convinced as Lambo/Rotti were that DRG was far behind, but the game definitely ended rather anticlimatically.
Seems like this is a "friendly" tournament where everyone just trying to get used to the map pool, so we have players under-perform for the most part, except for a few like DRG.
Zest ability to get his army into a good position is TERRIBLE, like how the hell he keep getting Byun army either get pass or just camp outside of his base and shooting down building like that?
Seem like Zest rely on his Observer way too much, and when Byun shot them down, he literally became blind and just get units picked off one by one. His base defense fell apart and his army doesnt know where to engage, this is the same Zest that at "middle of the pack" for most of 2020.
On October 25 2021 01:39 Swisslink wrote: How did Game 1 end? I left at approximately 12min in for dinner and when I return game 2 was still running. Was it one of those rather long games?
yeah, it was a long game, and Solar finished it with BLord + Infestor
On October 24 2021 23:14 Nakajin wrote: Did Solar english got better? I don't remember him being fully bilingual
Solars english was always really good, he even translated at several (past) HSCs
The english of a lot of the other koreans improved though, most of them can understand what admins want from them and some of them even joke quite a bit in the lobbies (e.g. ByuN)
Clem clearly having problem playing with the tank style. All of his tank push get cleared up wait to easily, and in the end he had nothing to defend against Lurker. Having said that, I believe Curious Mind is a heavy Zerg favor map because of how open it is, Zerg get full surrounding pretty much everywhere on the map. Hope that Clem will do much better for the rest of the map pools.
On October 25 2021 02:31 Charoisaur wrote: wow at the last DH it still seemed Clem was slightly outplaying Serral in the straight-up macro games but here Serral is just outplaying Clem
I think Clem is seeing (roach) ghosts, he didn't go for widow mines at all. Expecting roaches on a small map wasn't that silly but he should have gone for widow mines after making a few tanks. It's situations where there are 10+ mines on the map where Clem starts to outplay Serral.
On October 25 2021 02:31 Charoisaur wrote: wow at the last DH it still seemed Clem was slightly outplaying Serral in the straight-up macro games but here Serral is just outplaying Clem
I think Clem is seeing (roach) ghosts, he didn't go for widow mines at all. Expecting roaches on a small map wasn't that silly but he should have gone for widow mines after making a few tanks. It's situations where there are 10+ mines on the map where Clem starts to outplay Serral.
But Serral switched to Hydra right around when Clem start switching to Mines, forcing Clem to make more tanks agains.
On October 25 2021 02:34 tigera6 wrote: Clem clearly having problem playing with the tank style. All of his tank push get cleared up wait to easily, and in the end he had nothing to defend against Lurker. Having said that, I believe Curious Mind is a heavy Zerg favor map because of how open it is, Zerg get full surrounding pretty much everywhere on the map. Hope that Clem will do much better for the rest of the map pools.
A lot of the new maps look problematic, Jagganatha level. It is probably too early to tell but we're immediately back to an almost all-zerg playoff brackets. That said, if Clem had not positioned the tanks so far ahead during the very first push, he probably could have at least severely hurt Serral and his fourth.
On October 25 2021 02:34 tigera6 wrote: Clem clearly having problem playing with the tank style. All of his tank push get cleared up wait to easily, and in the end he had nothing to defend against Lurker. Having said that, I believe Curious Mind is a heavy Zerg favor map because of how open it is, Zerg get full surrounding pretty much everywhere on the map. Hope that Clem will do much better for the rest of the map pools.
A lot of the new maps look problematic, Jagganatha level. It is probably too early to tell but we're immediately back to an almost all-zerg playoff brackets. That said, if Clem had not positioned the tanks so far ahead during the very first push, he probably could have at least severely hurt Serral and his fourth.
If zoun didn't forfeit we'd have had a perfect bracket tbf.
Nice brainfart by serral who got to 18k/22 to 23/40k in ressources lost in less than 3 minutes... None of the other big 4 zergs can missplay like this while playing excellently the rest of the game.
On October 25 2021 03:48 stilt wrote: Nice brainfart by serral who got to 18k/22 to 23/40k in ressources lost in less than 3 minutes... None of the other big 4 zergs can missplay like this while playing excellently the rest of the game.
Except solar ofc but I consider jim a bit below the big 4 as he didn't win a lot of premier lately. I actually wonder when was his last premier tournament win... Was it a dreamhack back in hots ?
On October 25 2021 03:48 stilt wrote: Nice brainfart by serral who got to 18k/22 to 23/40k in ressources lost in less than 3 minutes... None of the other big 4 zergs can missplay like this while playing excellently the rest of the game.
Except solar ofc but I consider jim a bit below the big 4 as he didn't win a lot of premier lately. I actually wonder when was his last premier tournament win... Was it a dreamhack back in hots ?
SSL 2016 season 2, and ZvZ is never complete without the 12 pool and Drone pull.
On October 25 2021 03:48 stilt wrote: Nice brainfart by serral who got to 18k/22 to 23/40k in ressources lost in less than 3 minutes... None of the other big 4 zergs can missplay like this while playing excellently the rest of the game.
Except solar ofc but I consider jim a bit below the big 4 as he didn't win a lot of premier lately. I actually wonder when was his last premier tournament win... Was it a dreamhack back in hots ?
Solar is definitely the best active player to never win things (or even make it that deep in tournaments like code S.) He usually looks good getting eliminated so I'm not sure if it's even a mental block, maybe just terrible luck?
On October 25 2021 03:48 stilt wrote: Nice brainfart by serral who got to 18k/22 to 23/40k in ressources lost in less than 3 minutes... None of the other big 4 zergs can missplay like this while playing excellently the rest of the game.
Except solar ofc but I consider jim a bit below the big 4 as he didn't win a lot of premier lately. I actually wonder when was his last premier tournament win... Was it a dreamhack back in hots ?
Solar is definitely the best active player to never win things (or even make it that deep in tournaments like code S.) He usually looks good getting eliminated so I'm not sure if it's even a mental block, maybe just terrible luck?
I mean he has been in 12 "premier" finals in his career so his career hasn't totally been lackluster.
On October 25 2021 03:48 stilt wrote: Nice brainfart by serral who got to 18k/22 to 23/40k in ressources lost in less than 3 minutes... None of the other big 4 zergs can missplay like this while playing excellently the rest of the game.
Serral looked significantly better than Clem throughout the entire series until the last few minutes of the last game. The game 5 was actually the first time I ever seen Clem be cost-inefficient after the first 10 mins in a TvZ. After that he just looked completely lost. I wonder how big of an impact the sensor tower had because it felt like Serral had no way of attacking the left side of the map with the sensor tower there.
On October 25 2021 04:59 JJH777 wrote: Damnit Solar. Felt like he had that last game if he didn't take so much muta damage against the spores for no real reason.
Or he could just fly 2 Muta over to finish up the Nydus on Serral natural.
On October 25 2021 03:48 stilt wrote: Nice brainfart by serral who got to 18k/22 to 23/40k in ressources lost in less than 3 minutes... None of the other big 4 zergs can missplay like this while playing excellently the rest of the game.
Serral looked significantly better than Clem throughout the entire series until the last few minutes of the last game. The game 5 was actually the first time I ever seen Clem be cost-inefficient after the first 10 mins in a TvZ. After that he just looked completely lost. I wonder how big of an impact the sensor tower had because it felt like Serral had no way of attacking the left side of the map with the sensor tower there.
No, Clem was already ahead in cost efficiency in game 5 since the beginning, starting with Serral suiciding 40 lings into 16 Marines and a Tank. Serral made up the efficiency by going Lurker later but Clem with Ghost keep that cost efficiency back onto his side.
On October 25 2021 03:48 stilt wrote: Nice brainfart by serral who got to 18k/22 to 23/40k in ressources lost in less than 3 minutes... None of the other big 4 zergs can missplay like this while playing excellently the rest of the game.
Serral looked significantly better than Clem throughout the entire series until the last few minutes of the last game. The game 5 was actually the first time I ever seen Clem be cost-inefficient after the first 10 mins in a TvZ. After that he just looked completely lost. I wonder how big of an impact the sensor tower had because it felt like Serral had no way of attacking the left side of the map with the sensor tower there.
No, Clem was already ahead in cost efficiency in game 5 since the beginning, starting with Serral suiciding 40 lings into 16 Marines and a Tank. Serral made up the efficiency by going Lurker later but Clem with Ghost keep that cost efficiency back onto his side.
No, Serral got ahead in cost efficiency before he got lurkers - they showed the stat, i think it was around 10 minutes - might possible have been slightly later. After he got lurkers that's when he started taking bad fights.
On October 25 2021 06:13 stilt wrote: Something must be really wrong with serral early, how can he be below 10-15 pop at 8 min while having such a good opening ?
Was it normal to play the winner bracket final after the loser bracket one? It's his 12th game in a row.
On October 25 2021 06:13 stilt wrote: Something must be really wrong with serral early, how can he be below 10-15 pop at 8 min while having such a good opening ?
Was it normal to play the winner bracket final after the loser bracket one? It's his 12th game in a row.
That was so that they wouldn't have to keep two Koreans up late.
Honestly I can't see what was the difference between those two games, except the opposite results. A noob shouldn't perhaps..
On October 25 2021 06:26 Calliope wrote: This map looks like something that Terrans should veto. Or gamble to win before lurkers are out.
No, when reynor chose one of the new map for a offrace game against Clem he picked curious mind and Clem reacted by saying obviously he chose it as it is the only 50/50 map of the map pool. It is open but quite small and the lay out on the bottom bases don't seem too bad for T. + i didn't see the pick but I would bet clem chose it.
Serral and Clem have been playing insane games. Serral's really stepped up his anti-mine play but Clem's anti-anti-mine play is ridiculous as well (retargeting, unborrowing, etc)
On October 25 2021 07:07 TheLordofAwesome wrote: why no broodlord transition?
He mught have at some point but it needs a lot of time and ressources while they are not mobile and he still had to defend multiple positions, the game was not closed enough.
Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
great tournament overall, the series btw serral and clem were particularly excellent. I've been watching since beta, and it's hard to overstate the level of excellence in micro macro and overall play those two show consistently. congrats to clem for closing it out when it really mattered.
On October 25 2021 06:13 stilt wrote: Something must be really wrong with serral early, how can he be below 10-15 pop at 8 min while having such a good opening ?
Was it normal to play the winner bracket final after the loser bracket one? It's his 12th game in a row.
These guys play dozens of games everyday, i don't think they take such an efficency hit by having to play a couple more games. The true problem could be the schedule, but at this point they should all be prepared for it. Offline competition is just around the corner and should end these scheduling concerns once and for all. As for Protoss, give up on it. Its a race meant to abuse ladder with cheeses that are good for one game or to turtle and punish players who can't keep the pressure on. Neither of theses things happen at pro games. Protoss being redesigned into a tournament winning race is what we can hope for SC3, for now it will rightfully stay in the trash where it belongs as a cheese race.
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
Dont worry, Super Tournament is around the corner, we will see another Ro4 full of Toss, that has been the Protoss consolation prize for almost a year already.
Catch the last series from replay today, gotta say that I dont know why Serral didnt go for Roach in any of his games. Clem got the timing so much better with the Mine/Tanks vs Lingbane/HydraLurker interaction. In the end, Clem Mines and Ghost are too strong for Serral Lingbane/Lurker composition. Wonder if BLord Infestor would be better, or mixing in more Roach opening.
On October 25 2021 13:08 tigera6 wrote: Catch the last series from replay today, gotta say that I dont know why Serral didnt go for Roach in any of his games. Clem got the timing so much better with the Mine/Tanks vs Lingbane/HydraLurker interaction. In the end, Clem Mines and Ghost are too strong for Serral Lingbane/Lurker composition. Wonder if BLord Infestor would be better, or mixing in more Roach opening.
If I remember correctly he did go for some Roach builds in the winner bracket vs Clem and still lost 3:2. Clem was just a tiny bit better today going 6:4 overall. Two weeks ago Serral won 6:2 It's just daily form
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
Protoss is still the highest earning race in 2021 (Winnings/2021), so I would not really worry about them. Clem was on fire yesterday, well deserved win! ByuN had a great run and funnily still doesn’t lose to Zest.
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
It used to be depressing but at some point it just became helpful, the game doesn't have many years left, I'm happy that I'm no longer as invested into what happens.
There's an occasional good day that you can save. First day of this tournament had Reynor Neeb and Clem Maxpax, that's pretty good.
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
(thus far in 2021 we have 7 protoss, 7 zerg and 3 terran wins in premier events ... and for 2nd places you get the samesplit (7p, 7z, 3t) too ... protoss is doing very well)
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
(thus far in 2021 we have 7 protoss, 7 zerg and 3 terran wins in premier events ... and for 2nd places you get the samesplit (7p, 7z, 3t) too ... protoss is doing very well)
I think most people on TL consider Tier 1 events to only include Katowice/Blizzcon/Code S and maybe WESG. At least that's what I think of as Tier 1. They are a clear step more difficult and pay significantly more than any other tournaments. Liquipedia's premier and major distinctions are far too broad.
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
(thus far in 2021 we have 7 protoss, 7 zerg and 3 terran wins in premier events ... and for 2nd places you get the samesplit (7p, 7z, 3t) too ... protoss is doing very well)
I don't know a single person outside liquipedia staff that takes the liquipedia tiers seriously. I mean, WCS NA as premier, really?
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
(thus far in 2021 we have 7 protoss, 7 zerg and 3 terran wins in premier events ... and for 2nd places you get the samesplit (7p, 7z, 3t) too ... protoss is doing very well)
I don't know a single person outside liquipedia staff that takes the liquipedia tiers seriously. I mean, WCS NA as premier, really?
I can understand that you can argue for protoss doing good with the 5 wins of trap and esp their super tournament performance but the NA in there is just shameless agenda pushing.
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
(thus far in 2021 we have 7 protoss, 7 zerg and 3 terran wins in premier events ... and for 2nd places you get the samesplit (7p, 7z, 3t) too ... protoss is doing very well)
I don't know a single person outside liquipedia staff that takes the liquipedia tiers seriously. I mean, WCS NA as premier, really?
Maybe don't bite the hand that feeds? Feel free to do your own opinionated tier list if you want so random internet people can shit all over it
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
(thus far in 2021 we have 7 protoss, 7 zerg and 3 terran wins in premier events ... and for 2nd places you get the samesplit (7p, 7z, 3t) too ... protoss is doing very well)
I don't know a single person outside liquipedia staff that takes the liquipedia tiers seriously. I mean, WCS NA as premier, really?
I can understand that you can argue for protoss doing good with the 5 wins of trap and esp their super tournament performance but the NA in there is just shameless agenda pushing.
You two just look what he is quoting, the protoss fanboy clearly states "not a single premier in 4 years", "not even low tier tournaments" and then the answer is a list with a mixture of tournaments this year, which falsifies the argument and you have no other idea than to jump in this one Na bullet point?
On October 25 2021 08:23 highsis wrote: Protoss hasn't won a single tier 1 tournament in 4 years in 14 consecutive finals. Now they are even dropping out of low tier tournaments, it's depressing to see.
(thus far in 2021 we have 7 protoss, 7 zerg and 3 terran wins in premier events ... and for 2nd places you get the samesplit (7p, 7z, 3t) too ... protoss is doing very well)
I don't know a single person outside liquipedia staff that takes the liquipedia tiers seriously. I mean, WCS NA as premier, really?
I can understand that you can argue for protoss doing good with the 5 wins of trap and esp their super tournament performance but the NA in there is just shameless agenda pushing.
You two just look what he is quoting, the protoss fanboy clearly states "not a single premier in 4 years", "not even low tier tournaments" and then the answer is a list with a mixture of tournaments this year, which falsifies the argument and you have no other idea than to jump in this one Na bullet point?
I mean the quoted one refers to tier 1 tournaments which everyone has their own ranking of, and the lower tournament one is obv directed at hsc. Doesn't help tho to counter that claim with the claim of protoss doing very well and proving that with NA tournaments that are tier 1 because of their premier rank in liquipedia.
edit: btw i don't wanna claim that hsc is a lower tournament just that his claim is directed at it.
Yeah it's true that Protoss hasn't won a tier 1 tournament in a long time. However that doesn't necessarily mean Protoss is underpowered. Trap won a bunch of tournaments with the same player pool as tier 1 tournaments and they've been in the finals of a lot of tier 1 tournaments. Some of them were choked away like Zest in the last GSL finals or Stats in that IEM vs soO and the mentioned time span includes different balance patches including 2019 where the balance was very, let's say different to todays balance. I agree that at the very highest level it seems that ZvP is slightly Zerg favored but the statement "Protoss is dead because they haven't won a tier 1 tournament in 4 years" is very hyperbolical.
they just had a lot of bad luck in tier 1 tournaments
On October 29 2021 00:11 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah it's true that Protoss hasn't won a tier 1 tournament in a long time. However that doesn't necessarily mean Protoss is underpowered. Trap won a bunch of tournaments with the same player pool as tier 1 tournaments and they've been in the finals of a lot of tier 1 tournaments. Some of them were choked away like Zest in the last GSL finals or Stats in that IEM vs soO and the mentioned time span includes different balance patches including 2019 where the balance was very, let's say different to todays balance. I agree that at the very highest level it seems that ZvP is slightly Zerg favored but the statement "Protoss is dead because they haven't won a tier 1 tournament in 4 years" is very hyperbolical.
they just had a lot of bad luck in tier 1 tournaments
I think it's a bit unfair to cure to put all of Zests loss on Zest himself :D But yeah i agree i also don't wanna argue for toss being weak or anything imo game is pretty balanced overall just some apsects are sort of lame. But this discussion of protoss being so dumb op in eyes of some and so weak i neyes of others annoys me to no end at this point also the whine sometimes if toss does well at an event is hillarious and obv baits the reactions we get when toss doesn't perform well at another.
Whether it's balance or not is not very relevant from an audience perspective. It's very possible that the players I like don't win because they all happen to suck at the game, and if Maxpax continues to progress this will increase the likelihood of that being true. Either way, in the meantime the people I like just lose all the time, so there's less and less interest in me watching.
Keep in mind that this is specifically the week-end where that wasn't the case. Reynor lost a bunch, Clem lost to Maxpax, Maxpax won a tournament! I was into it.
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBMDPn7WEAIhxK0?format=jpg&name=large)
StayAtHome Story Cup/4![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/lqfbzhplbnu71.jpg)
Reynor, 
ByuN, 
Neeb![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBqb0gIWEAYEgk4?format=jpg&name=900x900)
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBqb42UWEAQMMOk?format=jpg&name=900x900)
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBqb5WIUUAUwwt8?format=jpg&name=900x900)
![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213614988647071744/901582230328070184/Screenshot_2021-10-23_23.24.32.png)
