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On July 22 2021 23:59 angry_maia wrote:
was it just inferior army control that led to Parting losing the last game? The disruptor archon carrier void felt like it should be able to do well against Dark's compositions, but I feel like almost no novas ever landed.
Probably, I think also that in games 2 and 4 Parting wasn't decisive enough after winning engagements (when he did win engagements.) Game 2 I don't think it was the composition so much as poor defense against counter attacks that doomed Parting.
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I don't think that Trap will have an answer for all of this in the finals.
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Dark seemed pretty confident with his heavy ground ultra-ling-bane hit squad style versus Skytoss for long periods. The switch to corruptors only came after he had wrecked Parting's economy - more of a killing blow rather than a desperate last-ditch counter. Worked in both G2 and G4. Weird as it looked, Dark's big brain once again confounds conventional logic. Parting's countless exasperated looks after his Skytoss keeps getting pushed back says it all. What a solid strategy by Dark.
Maybe the better strat is to mix in blink DT and do a Hail Mary mothership teleport Ziesta style?
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Wow, absolute destruction! The finals should be interesting 
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Lets face it, majority of partings wins come from cheeses or fancy micro that allows him accumulate small advantages over time. If the early game is even I rarely see parting take down any top players in a macro game
Edit: Last time dark vs parting, dark won 3-2, 2 games won by parting are cannon rush and shield battery cheeses. Parting simply isnt strong in normal games
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I had my doubts after the Bunny/Trap match, but this series has convinced me: Protoss is OP.
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Northern Ireland25050 Posts
On July 23 2021 02:31 Obamarauder wrote:
Lets face it, majority of partings wins come from cheeses or fancy micro that allows him accumulate small advantages over time. If the early game is even I rarely see parting take down any top players in a macro game
Edit: Last time dark vs parting, dark won 3-2, 2 games won by parting are cannon rush and shield battery cheeses. Parting simply isnt strong in normal games
In PvZ yeah, been the case forever since his Soul Train days.
PvT not so much, he’s always been pretty damn good in macro games, initially when he burst through he got the props for it but lately it seems people are sleeping on him there.
Might be a tempo thing, he seems to be capable of the multitasking when he’s controlling the map and being the aggressor, as in PvT. Against them pesky Zergs it’s you more on the back seat and defending, more reactive than proactive and he perhaps struggles there.
Interesting series, Dark is strong of course but I think Trap is cleaner in the matchup than Parting, much may depend on who gets to prep and practice with whom!
Quite a nice final narrative wise, Trap gets the shot at finally getting the gold and a rematch against Dark in a less hopeless meta, and Dark gets a shot at further cementing his legacy as one of the greats.
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A bit uninspiring from both players. I was expecting this result, but I though Dark will look more dominating. I think is an easy GSL trophy for Trap at this point.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Terrans rightfully complain about TvP.
Little do they know PvZ is even worse. Poor Parting.
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No surprise here Dark is a macro powerhouse who can play with any composition and is very unpredictable. I dont care about Lambo's theoretical build optimalizations, i wanna see a messy zerg who thinks on the fly. Parting has crazy moves but he lacks some skills that should be basic at the very top.
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Northern Ireland25050 Posts
On July 23 2021 05:03 Shathe wrote:
No surprise here Dark is a macro powerhouse who can play with any composition and is very unpredictable. I dont care about Lambo's theoretical build optimalizations, i wanna see a messy zerg who thinks on the fly. Parting has crazy moves but he lacks some skills that should be basic at the very top.
Assuming there isn’t some properly abusable aspect of the meta, in which case hello Rogue, there’s not a scarier Zerg to face than Dark given his range and exceptional mechanical execution.
Doesn’t always pay off and a Serral playing reactive and standard is as tough an opponent one can wish for, but Dark’s sheer unpredictability is a huge asset to him.
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On July 23 2021 01:06 NotSoHappy wrote:
I don't think that Trap will have an answer for all of this in the finals.
I'm more worried for Dark, I don't think Trap loses to him
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On July 22 2021 23:16 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2021 22:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 22 2021 21:33 SharkStarcraft wrote:
Man i just gotta say
The queen is a digusting unit and always has been
T1 unit that costs 0 larva handling T3 upgraded Carriers and everything else on the ground anyway with their healings... That's just not right mang As a zerg player I fully agree. This is simply bad design thank you very much. I wish we could try nerfing both transfuse and shield batteries, but now it'll never happen
I wouldn't put shield battery in the same category though, i would however remind you we had shooting f*ing nexuses at some point and that is also, horrible game design. I'm not talking about balance here at all mind you. Queens as the only early game anti-air defence was the single most hated game design feature for me since day1 of playing SC2. Little did I know it would turn out to be an all-game anti-air and anti-land defense unit for a decade+. Bleh.
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Mexico2170 Posts
I've had time to think a little and read the comments.
I still think zerg is disgusting in PvZ, that being said I do think Trap will put up a better fight against Dark. It's surprising Parting went macro all the games. Maybe he thought Dark would prepare for that and not so much for macro games, but it ended up not working.
To the people saying he should have had HT, they would have been useless. See how fast disruptors died? HT have less health and move even slower. Ultras, Lings, banes and later on even Brood lords can get on top of them and kill them super easy. When you're going air your ground army is very limited so it's hard to protect them. Even if you get some feedbacks or storm then what? Vipers insta recover their energy, there are 30 queens and 10 infestors. If you feedback a couple of each that's not much of a difference, and I doubt you would be able to pull it off with all the Ultra, Brood lings etc.
That being said there are two big flaws about what Dark was doing:
1.- super defensive. Dark was able to not die with Ultra/queen, but not push. He was only able to push after getting Corruptors. Protoss players should try to stop the Zerg from expanding, like Parting was trying to do in the last game. Unfortunately Parting was not as effective as he could have. Partings bottom right was denied for a while too. The way Dark won was by killing half the army of parting, then insta remaxing with 25 Corruptors+Queens+ultras then repeat multiple. If you can't expand you cannot get enough resources.
Also drops.
2.- the other big part of it is that you are relying on queens and infestors, and while queens have great sustain, with burst damage you can kill them. He tried to do it with disruptors, there's another way: DT. Make 10 dts flank the army and jump on top of the infestors with blink. Maybe the queens too. If you attack at the same time with your main army the Zerg won't be able to keep the infestors/queen alive while keeping the viper/ultras/BL alive. He will have to choice, and DTs do so much burst damage that you might get quite a bit of infectors and queens.
Basically, do what Dark did to counter the HT/Disruptors by killing them instantly, just worse since DTs cost much more and are more fragile. But it should be able to be done. Also drops, again.
I want to ask a question to other Zerg players. Is the viper abduct really needed? When it was released in HoTS I remember getting excited about it, but now it just seems overkill.
Do you guys think if you removed abduct and the insta energy recovery, and just kept blinding cloud and the Air AoE ability, would it be much different? I don't think Zerg would really struggle without those and it would make late game pvz much less bs.
Also fungal shouldn't work on interceptor again like it used to.
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Northern Ireland25050 Posts
On July 23 2021 06:00 [Phantom] wrote:
I've had time to think a little and read the comments.
I still think zerg is disgusting in PvZ, that being said I do think Trap will put up a better fight against Dark. It's surprising Parting went macro all the games. Maybe he thought Dark would prepare for that and not so much for macro games, but it ended up not working.
To the people saying he should have had HT, they would have been useless. See how fast disruptors died? HT have less health and move even slower. Ultras, Lings, banes and later on even Brood lords can get on top of them and kill them super easy. When you're going air your ground army is very limited so it's hard to protect them. Even if you get some feedbacks or storm then what? Vipers insta recover their energy, there are 30 queens and 10 infestors. If you feedback a couple of each that's not much of a difference, and I doubt you would be able to pull it off with all the Ultra, Brood lings etc.
That being said there are two big flaws about what Dark was doing:
1.- super defensive. Dark was able to not die with Ultra/queen, but not push. He was only able to push after getting Corruptors. Protoss players should try to stop the Zerg from expanding, like Parting was trying to do in the last game. Unfortunately Parting was not as effective as he could have. Partings bottom right was denied for a while too. The way Dark won was by killing half the army of parting, then insta remaxing with 25 Corruptors+Queens+ultras then repeat multiple. If you can't expand you cannot get enough resources.
Also drops.
2.- the other big part of it is that you are relying on queens and infestors, and while queens have great sustain, with burst damage you can kill them. He tried to do it with disruptors, there's another way: DT. Make 10 dts flank the army and jump on top of the infestors with blink. Maybe the queens too. If you attack at the same time with your main army the Zerg won't be able to keep the infestors/queen alive while keeping the viper/ultras/BL alive. He will have to choice, and DTs do so much burst damage that you might get quite a bit of infectors and queens.
Basically, do what Dark did to counter the HT/Disruptors by killing them instantly, just worse since DTs cost much more and are more fragile. But it should be able to be done. Also drops, again.
I want to ask a question to other Zerg players. Is the viper abduct really needed? When it was released in HoTS I remember getting excited about it, but now it just seems overkill.
Do you guys think if you removed abduct and the insta energy recovery, and just kept blinding cloud and the Air AoE ability, would it be much different? I don't think Zerg would really struggle without those and it would make late game pvz much less bs.
Also fungal shouldn't work on interceptor again like it used to.
In the scenarios we saw HT would have been useful. When Dark committed to engagements yes they would have been wiped but there was a lot of holding off and dancing around where some feedback snipes would have been pretty impactful
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France12790 Posts
On July 23 2021 04:49 [Phantom] wrote:
Terrans rightfully complain about TvP.
Little do they know PvZ is even worse. Poor Parting.
Idk, PartinG lasted more time in game 4 than Bunny in 4 games :o
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playing against these top zergs like dark rogue serral reynor feels almost impossible as P
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Northern Ireland25050 Posts
On July 23 2021 06:24 CicadaSC wrote:
playing against these top zergs like dark rogue serral reynor feels almost impossible as P
Trap’s done it, pretty consistently.
Just don’t think Parting had what it took today
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I feel like PartinG prepared for a different opponent, I mean, going macro against Dark is a deathwish in PartinG's case. He could've done better though. People calling him bad at macro however are clearly forgetting that to be at that level, your macro game has to be at a respectable level at the very least.
Calling him out on that is a bit stupid, as he's definitely showcased some awesome macro games before. Could he improve on that? Definitely, but saying he's bad at it.. makes me chuckle.
Hope Dark wins against Trap, but man, can't say I'm completely convinced he will.
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I feel like Parting was playing Dark's game, trying to go head to head in long drawn out macro games has never been Parting's forte. His macro is good, but Dark is simply one of the best macro players in the world. I feel like Parting should have been hyper aggressive and not go Skytoss which it seems like Dark pretty much has figured out.
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EPT
