EPT[GSL 2021] Code S - Semi Finals - Day Two - Page 7
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Starecat
940 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
If it wasn't for WonWonWon and then shooting nexus and blink in 14/15 i doubt this guy would see a single gold medal. He is good at exploiting things that let his good micro shine, but is lackluster everywhere else. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On July 23 2021 06:00 [Phantom] wrote: I've had time to think a little and read the comments. I still think zerg is disgusting in PvZ, that being said I do think Trap will put up a better fight against Dark. It's surprising Parting went macro all the games. Maybe he thought Dark would prepare for that and not so much for macro games, but it ended up not working. To the people saying he should have had HT, they would have been useless. See how fast disruptors died? HT have less health and move even slower. Ultras, Lings, banes and later on even Brood lords can get on top of them and kill them super easy. When you're going air your ground army is very limited so it's hard to protect them. Even if you get some feedbacks or storm then what? Vipers insta recover their energy, there are 30 queens and 10 infestors. If you feedback a couple of each that's not much of a difference, and I doubt you would be able to pull it off with all the Ultra, Brood lings etc. That being said there are two big flaws about what Dark was doing: 1.- super defensive. Dark was able to not die with Ultra/queen, but not push. He was only able to push after getting Corruptors. Protoss players should try to stop the Zerg from expanding, like Parting was trying to do in the last game. Unfortunately Parting was not as effective as he could have. Partings bottom right was denied for a while too. The way Dark won was by killing half the army of parting, then insta remaxing with 25 Corruptors+Queens+ultras then repeat multiple. If you can't expand you cannot get enough resources. Also drops. 2.- the other big part of it is that you are relying on queens and infestors, and while queens have great sustain, with burst damage you can kill them. He tried to do it with disruptors, there's another way: DT. Make 10 dts flank the army and jump on top of the infestors with blink. Maybe the queens too. If you attack at the same time with your main army the Zerg won't be able to keep the infestors/queen alive while keeping the viper/ultras/BL alive. He will have to choice, and DTs do so much burst damage that you might get quite a bit of infectors and queens. Basically, do what Dark did to counter the HT/Disruptors by killing them instantly, just worse since DTs cost much more and are more fragile. But it should be able to be done. Also drops, again. I want to ask a question to other Zerg players. Is the viper abduct really needed? When it was released in HoTS I remember getting excited about it, but now it just seems overkill. Do you guys think if you removed abduct and the insta energy recovery, and just kept blinding cloud and the Air AoE ability, would it be much different? I don't think Zerg would really struggle without those and it would make late game pvz much less bs. Also fungal shouldn't work on interceptor again like it used to. Agreed. Basically Zerg is turtling, and aiming to backstab to hurt Toss economy. To counter, Toss needs to either completely decimate the Zerg army head-on or launch ninja attacks to backstab Zerg. Stalemate means Zerg is winning. In a way, Dark played like EU Zerg (just with funky composition). Also, I'm not sure how HT will help either. The reason why Dark went spellcaster or ground heavy was a reaction to Parting's composition. I'm sure Dark will adjust if Parting played differently. That Parting's play is somewhat predictable and rigid, especially in the end game, definitely made Dark's job easier. An equally chaotic and big brain Toss like Zest would've have been more uncomfortable and risky to take the game to late game. In short, Dark was well on top of Parting once the game dragged on. | ||
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Garbo1
49 Posts
As Tastosis said, Trap might go for a more ground based army to combat this Queen heavy style that Dark is playing, Dark should definitely prep to counter Disruptor play for the finals. I was hoping Dark would win but in a closer series, just feel awful for Parting. He got so tilted after game 3. It's interesting to see Dark's new style, borrowing from the Maru handbook of kill as much and as quickly as possible while losing as few units as possible, even if you only increment out the damage. I mean, if Terrans can have medivacs and protoss can abuse shield batteries, why can't Zerg just have mass queen infusion, right? It's an excellent strategy. I want to believe Dark will wipe the floor with Trap after seeing that, but Trap is a different beast compared to Parting. After tonight's match up, you can see that Parting's macro efficiency is really not quite there. The fact that he allowed Dark to recover and get ahead supply wise after failing a 12 pool is pretty unforgivable, I doubt Trap would have let that happen. But still, I really don't want to see Trap win. It's funny, I was thinking back to the last time a protoss won a GSL and then realised how grossly the same players have dominated the GSL in recent years, I never realised. Since season 1 2017 after Stats' win, we've had Gumiho, Innovation, then Maru's 4 peat, then Dark. And since then it's been Rogue, TY, Rogue, TY, Rogue. Someone needs to nerf Rogue. Having said that, I still love Dark. Man is so handsome. Edit: also, overcharge is wayyy too handy. I mean I get that Dark abused the Queen infuse pretty well, but there was a ton of micro and he still lost units, plus he had to micro all his other spellcasters too. But when Dark moved in on one base with virtually his entire army, he couldn't kill a single unit while overcharge was active and ended up losing half his army if I Recall correctly. | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
Will be interesting to see how Dark does against Trap, I think Trap is just strictly better than Parting at all parts of PvZ other than executing cannon rushes. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
I'm actually pretty happy with this finals, at least on paper. I'm good with any outcome except for an outcome where one of them gets trashed and looks helpless. Gonna ask the fates for a nail-biting finals this time... | ||
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machinus
United States291 Posts
Queens are broken, but Dark obviously has superior strategy in ZvP and deserved to win. | ||
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tigera6
3433 Posts
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Garbo1
49 Posts
On July 23 2021 13:57 machinus wrote: Parting went fast Carriers, and Dark beat him with Ultralisks, Zerglings, Roaches, and Queens. No Hydras at all, and very late Corruptors. Queens are broken, but Dark obviously has superior strategy in ZvP and deserved to win. How are queens any more broken than shield batteries that don't even need any micro? | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On July 23 2021 06:24 CicadaSC wrote: playing against these top zergs like dark rogue serral reynor feels almost impossible as P Exactly! And that is why Rogue is absolutely hopeless in ZvP matchup for the last couple of months and especially Zoun consistently dumpsters him. Serral also loses to top KR protoss players. This all sounds just like butthurt Parting fanboys. The matchup has its issues, but its definitely not balance. Some players adjusted better to the meta (Trap, Reynor, Dark, Zoun, maybe Zest) and some players seem lost in it (Rogue, Parting, Serral for his standards). + Parting is just not that good, he is a GSL RO16 player and only reaches RO8 when he is on top form he does not have the quality to win GSL, not even close, he always was kind off a one trick pony | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On July 23 2021 13:57 machinus wrote: Parting went fast Carriers, and Dark beat him with Ultralisks, Zerglings, Roaches, and Queens. No Hydras at all, and very late Corruptors. Queens are broken, but Dark obviously has superior strategy in ZvP and deserved to win. Queens are broken in ZvP and Void rays and batteries are broken in all matchups... | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
On July 23 2021 14:16 tigera6 wrote: Dark is simply too good to just die to any mid-game Protoss army push. You cant beat him the same way you beat Reynor or Serral, who usually want to go for 90-100 drones in 8 minutes. Dark grow his econ slowly, but he always have an army to defend and survive that stage of the game. Then lategame rolls over and Dark become a god with his army composition and control. That's what makes Dark's low-econ style so fascinating to watch. He doesn't just pump drones every game and rely on Queens for defence (the typical playstyle of EU Zerg which Queen-haters should revile even more). Dark plays around with different unit compositions without a big bank with ultimate efficiency. Big brains, big balls. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4955 Posts
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stilt
France2752 Posts
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Drfilip
Sweden590 Posts
The way Dark plays makes him more defensive in the early stages, unless he does one of his early attacks, and a bit behind economically compared to other zergs. PartinG, on the other hand, thrive with early aggression. This clashes with Dark's style. I think it was good by PartinG to not try early aggression. He even used the fact that Dark was behind to set up his own tech and economy. I expected Dark to win in the late game, the mid game and the early game. PartinG showed a small lack of multi unit micro with his observers being stationary or lagging behind while also missing disruptor shots and losing disruptors. The carriers and voids were microed well. When PartinG adapted to Dark's queen+shroud style, Dark counter adapted. It seemed as if PartinG was almost there, but Dark was 1 step ahead in composition. Good games, PartinG. You are getting better! | ||
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
I kind of expected Bunny vs Trap to be rather one sided but not to such extreme. In 2nd match I am mostly surprised that PartinG did not go for any early shenanigans. Dark is and always was clearly superior PvZ player and in my book the only chance for PartinG to get a win is to go for some unorthodox, exploitive play. Better player won in the end, let's hope for better finals. Also while not broken/unbalanced I do no like the overreliance on queens by zergs. It slows the game to a crawl and leads to boring, stalemate gameplay and seeing the 4th game is just the pinnacle of it. ~20 queens whole game long without any of them dying, just transfuse 24/7 like there is no tomorrow. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4028 Posts
On July 23 2021 17:56 Argonauta wrote: It is going to be so fun when Trap dumpsters Dark in the finals and all the balance whine will turn into the opposite direction. yeah I expect that much. Trap is in amazing form and his PvZ playstyle can be super uncomfortable for anyone. I hope for a close series though (actually i hope for a 3-0 into reverse sweep for Trap lol). | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6989 Posts
Very hyped! | ||
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plainsane
Germany98 Posts
On July 23 2021 00:38 JustPassingBy wrote: The best part of today was hearing Tastosis in the background complementing the play, while all pros in the foreground were collectively groaning how bad the move was. What pros were you listening to and where did you get that stream? | ||
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