You know what? I think INno has a shot at this one, tvz vs Scarlett, tvt vs Maru (Or Gabe we never know) and then as long as it's not Reynor I like his odds.
On July 04 2021 00:38 parksonsc wrote: Hahaha Maru is brutal: "foreign Zergs are only hard because of the PING".
Well given how Clem fares against them with good ping, we can’t say Maru is wrong on that one. Did he really say that though? I missed the interview, the feed was bugged on ogaming
Inno was applying almost ZERO pressure on the Zerg. While I give Scarlett all the credit she deserve, I wonder if Inno is injured or something, he was straight-up fearful of pushing on to the creep, allowing Zerg to expand non-stop whatsoever. That 2nd game, the Bane was so late that a typical strong Terran push could have dealt major damage, but Inno just stayed home.
On July 04 2021 01:27 tigera6 wrote: Inno was applying almost ZERO pressure on the Zerg. While I give Scarlett all the credit she deserve, I wonder if Inno is injured or something, he was straight-up fearful of pushing on to the creep, allowing Zerg to expand non-stop whatsoever. That 2nd game, the Bane was so late that a typical strong Terran push could have dealt major damage, but Inno just stayed home.
Inno has lost reapers and hellions and drops all 3 games. It makes sense for Inno to be more conservative with his units.
According to TIME, Inno practices no more than 10 games per week recently (not sure it is a joke). Because these loses also count as practice and reached his weekly goal, so he just regain his strength play better and better.
On July 04 2021 02:20 pzlama333 wrote: According to TIME, Inno practices no more than 10 games per week recently (not sure it is a joke). Because these loses also count as practice and reached his weekly goal, so he just regain his strength play better and better.
may not be a joke, there's memes in the KR community screencapping INno's main account showing he barely plays lately.
On July 04 2021 02:20 pzlama333 wrote: According to TIME, Inno practices no more than 10 games per week recently (not sure it is a joke). Because these loses also count as practice and reached his weekly goal, so he just regain his strength play better and better.
may not be a joke, there's memes in the KR community screencapping INno's main account showing he barely plays lately.
Well, then he reaches his monthly practice goal already.
I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
It was full of interesting upsets in group stage at least. Season finals group stages are usually a mere formality because the guys who should advance always advanced in the past.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
Dream-Reynor could be a good match if Dream bring his A game. INno-Scarlett was a fun, but Time and HM got terrible draws, switch those up and we got a lot closer matches.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
I would say Heromarine, Neeb and Special are better, but Scarletts in top form is really good, it's just that she from what I see often doesn't perform as well as one would think.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above scarlett? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
I would 100% put heromarine above her, and probably put Showtime and Neeb as well. And then Lambo and time are likely stronger as well.
On one hand this might be raising expectations for an epic maru rogue bo7, but I'm not sure whether to be excited for that either haha based on the gsl finals.
On July 04 2021 03:08 HolydaKing wrote: I would say Heromarine, Neeb and Special are better, but Scarletts in top form is really good, it's just that she from what I see often doesn't perform as well as one would think.
She might had guts trying to prolong the games even further. But as the time passed, she kept hesitating or making bad trades ended up with her losing the game.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above scarlett? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
aligulac measures past performance, and takes time to react to improvements in form. It also tends to underestimate players that thrive in preparation heavy formats.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
On July 04 2021 03:13 Pandain wrote: On one hand this might be raising expectations for an epic maru rogue bo7, but I'm not sure whether to be excited for that either haha based on the gsl finals.
Considering that Maru is going to have his GSL group later on the same day as the Final, I am not sure how much he want to play into the series, or how willing hes going to play the lategame. The Final will start around 1 or 2am KR time and might finish at 3-4am while GSL start around 6pm. If Maru want to keep himself healthy and ready for the GSL, you might see proxy in every single game or alot of all-in push.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above scarlett? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
aligulac measures past performance, and takes time to react to improvements in form. It also tends to underestimate players that thrive in preparation heavy formats.
Right, but when we are taking skill level into consideration, we have to include and reflect on past performances which is what aligulac does. Being a top 16 non-korean is nothing to scoff at.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
When was the last time Scarlett overperformed in a notable tournament before she got out of the group stage here?
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
When was the last time Scarlett overperformed in a notable tournament before she got out of the group stage here?
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
When was the last time Scarlett overperformed in a notable tournament before she got out of the group stage here?
Scarlett was in GSL Ro16 both seasons last year, and won DreamHack Fall NA.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
When was the last time Scarlett overperformed in a notable tournament before she got out of the group stage here?
IEM Pyongyang i guess
WESG at least, I think she did too in GSL last year personally and even Dreamhack/WCS NA. In any case it's better then HM, Soul, Showtime even, that pretty much never punch above their weight in big event.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
When was the last time Scarlett overperformed in a notable tournament before she got out of the group stage here?
GSL season 1 2020 and WESG 2019 were good performances.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
When was the last time Scarlett overperformed in a notable tournament before she got out of the group stage here?
Scarlett was in GSL Ro16 both seasons last year, and won DreamHack Fall NA.
I don't think the first counts as overperforming and the second most definitely isn't a notable tournament. Nor an overperformance considering anything less than top 3 in NA is already underperforming.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
When was the last time Scarlett overperformed in a notable tournament before she got out of the group stage here?
GSL season 1 2020 and WESG 2019 were good performances.
The only noteworthy player she beat at WESG was Special and he wasn't nearly as good as he is today And in GSL she literally only beat retired players lol. And one upset against Rogue I guess
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
If we go by statistics on aligulac as of the time of this post, scarlett is #36. Which non-koreans are above her? Uthermal, Time, Soul, Special, Astrea, Neeb, Lambo, MaxPax, Elazer, Showtime, HeroMarine, Reynor, Serral and Clem. That would put scarlett as #15 out of the top 16 non-koreans with Mana filling the final 16th spot.
Aligulac overrates all of Europe dramatically. I'm surprised it rates Astrea above her. In an important match I would bet on Scarlett over most of that group besides Neeb/Showtime/Special/Time and I would still give her a very high chance vs them.
I'd say as much as Scarlett can feel like a choker from time to time, she's definitely prone to overperform in big tournament, in a random online cup I'd say she's rather low in the ranking. But in big tournament, she's capable of pulling off big upset in a way many other foreigner aren't.
On July 04 2021 02:50 Pandain wrote: I feel like this is one of the worst season finals in a while, even in ro8 we have pretty mismatched rounds. And even inno advancing to the semifinals beating only (not even top 5) foreigners.
Hoping for a good ro4 and onwards
How do you support Scarlett not being a top 5 foreigner? Who is clearly better than her currently besides Serral/Reynor/Clem? She is definitely in the tier immediately below them and everyone in that tier is roughly equal imo without enough clear evidence to order it because of the lack of cross region tournaments without Koreans.
Well, here I think Reynor should have been able to hold this, considering he scouted it. How long did he delay his Baneling speed and was there a reason to do so?
On July 04 2021 04:22 Swisslink wrote: Well, here I think Reynor should have been able to hold this, considering he scouted it. How long did he delay his Baneling speed and was there a reason to do so?
He did not know it was a 2-bases all-in, and was being greedy like he always does. Late bane speed doesnt really hurt though, it was the over-drone and not enough units that killed Reynor chance in this game.
On July 04 2021 04:22 Swisslink wrote: Well, here I think Reynor should have been able to hold this, considering he scouted it. How long did he delay his Baneling speed and was there a reason to do so?
He did not know it was a 2-bases all-in, and was being greedy like he always does. Late bane speed doesnt really hurt though, it was the over-drone and not enough units that killed Reynor chance in this game.
Did he really not know? He flew in and saw a lot of stuff - and no 3rd CC. I mean, he couldn‘t be 100 % certain, but I would assume he was quite certain what he was facing.
On July 04 2021 04:42 Swisslink wrote: Dream has to kill Reynor before the late game. I don't see him winning any game if Reynor reaches his comfort zone.
Its more like Dream should stop doing Proxy racks, get scouted and fell behind way early in the game. He could have made the last game much closer had he done a regular Terran build.
On July 04 2021 05:07 tigera6 wrote: This series would have been much closer had Dream did more typical pressure build than getting cheese build.
This series may have been much closer if it wasn't played at 4-5am in Korea.
I think that the dream vs reynor series came down to build/playstyle choices rather than the timeslot. It was nice to see Dream at least be able to bring things to late game though after getting behind. That's one thing Dream has shown that he is good at, playing from behind.
On July 04 2021 05:24 tennisl wrote: Come on Maru! It's now or never.
There's a decent chance he'll face Rogue in the finals, so that's sounding like a never. Getting to the finals should be pretty well guaranteed though, so that's something.
It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
On July 04 2021 05:24 tennisl wrote: Come on Maru! It's now or never.
There's a decent chance he'll face Rogue in the finals, so that's sounding like a never. Getting to the finals should be pretty well guaranteed though, so that's something.
Come on, Rogue is not completely a tier above Maru as you sound like, they are evenly matched and a Bo7 between them could go either way. Last GSL finals were just Maru's straight up BO losses and wrong decision making.
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
On July 04 2021 05:24 tennisl wrote: Come on Maru! It's now or never.
There's a decent chance he'll face Rogue in the finals, so that's sounding like a never. Getting to the finals should be pretty well guaranteed though, so that's something.
Come on, Rogue is not completely a tier above Maru as you sound like, they are evenly matched and a Bo7 between them could go either way. Last GSL finals were just Maru's straight up BO losses and wrong decision making.
I would even say that in non GSL events, Maru is the utmost favorite versus Rogue since he can play however he wants without Rogue being overly prepared.
On July 04 2021 05:24 tennisl wrote: Come on Maru! It's now or never.
There's a decent chance he'll face Rogue in the finals, so that's sounding like a never. Getting to the finals should be pretty well guaranteed though, so that's something.
Come on, Rogue is not completely a tier above Maru as you sound like, they are evenly matched and a Bo7 between them could go either way. Last GSL finals were just Maru's straight up BO losses and wrong decision making.
Ya, I think Rogue is a much better match up for him than Reynor, I don't see him beating the Italian.
On July 04 2021 05:24 tennisl wrote: Come on Maru! It's now or never.
There's a decent chance he'll face Rogue in the finals, so that's sounding like a never. Getting to the finals should be pretty well guaranteed though, so that's something.
Come on, Rogue is not completely a tier above Maru as you sound like, they are evenly matched and a Bo7 between them could go either way. Last GSL finals were just Maru's straight up BO losses and wrong decision making.
Ya, I think Rogue is a much better match up for him than Reynor, I don't see him beating the Italian.
Dream gave Reynor enough issue from last night despite playing from behind because his cheese got scouted and hard-countered. I dont think Maru would be that much worse from Dream. Last time they met, Reynor was on the verge of getting 0-3 before Maru moved away from his best build. Even with that, Reynor was winning because of some critical Fungal hit. And I dont think Reynor is at the same level he was in IEM yet.
On July 04 2021 05:24 tennisl wrote: Come on Maru! It's now or never.
There's a decent chance he'll face Rogue in the finals, so that's sounding like a never. Getting to the finals should be pretty well guaranteed though, so that's something.
Come on, Rogue is not completely a tier above Maru as you sound like, they are evenly matched and a Bo7 between them could go either way. Last GSL finals were just Maru's straight up BO losses and wrong decision making.
Ya, I think Rogue is a much better match up for him than Reynor, I don't see him beating the Italian.
Dream gave Reynor enough issue from last night despite playing from behind because his cheese got scouted and hard-countered. I dont think Maru would be that much worse from Dream. Last time they met, Reynor was on the verge of getting 0-3 before Maru moved away from his best build. Even with that, Reynor was winning because of some critical Fungal hit. And I dont think Reynor is at the same level he was in IEM yet.
I wouldn’t put much faith in Maru’s cross server TvZ though, he has to hope Rogue beats Reynor. INno is not the favorite but he is still potent in TvT so risky match up for Maru. He has decent odds of winning it all though! Reynor is still the favorite
On July 04 2021 05:24 tennisl wrote: Come on Maru! It's now or never.
There's a decent chance he'll face Rogue in the finals, so that's sounding like a never. Getting to the finals should be pretty well guaranteed though, so that's something.
Come on, Rogue is not completely a tier above Maru as you sound like, they are evenly matched and a Bo7 between them could go either way. Last GSL finals were just Maru's straight up BO losses and wrong decision making.
Ya, I think Rogue is a much better match up for him than Reynor, I don't see him beating the Italian.
If Maru doesn't set himself behind with some stupid rax proxy, I would still favor him vs Reynor in a Bo7. Last time they played in IEM, it was Maru to throw the 2-0 lead by the BO lost.
I honestly have no idea whose favoured with these players.
Inno winning would be the most surprising outcome for sure, but among the other three I'm not sure. Rogue is wildly inconsistent, and Maru and Reynor seem to be playing well but not quite at their peaks? Which leaves any kind of performance possible I think.
On July 04 2021 05:24 tennisl wrote: Come on Maru! It's now or never.
There's a decent chance he'll face Rogue in the finals, so that's sounding like a never. Getting to the finals should be pretty well guaranteed though, so that's something.
Come on, Rogue is not completely a tier above Maru as you sound like, they are evenly matched and a Bo7 between them could go either way. Last GSL finals were just Maru's straight up BO losses and wrong decision making.
Ya, I think Rogue is a much better match up for him than Reynor, I don't see him beating the Italian.
If Maru doesn't set himself behind with some stupid rax proxy, I would still favor him vs Reynor in a Bo7. Last time they played in IEM, it was Maru to throw the 2-0 lead by the BO lost.
I think Reynor tvz style has evolved in the last few months in a direction that is very much not favorable for Maru, maybe it's just me but he doesn't seem to cruse into the slower lurker play as much. Maru in TvZ likes to find a way to put himself in a build order or composition advantage be it by taking it into the late game, some early pushes or countering his opponent composition. (especially when it's against roaches and the like)
The high octane bio-play in tvz has never been in strong suite, he's best suited against player like Dark, Ragnarok, Rogue even, not so much against player who play straight up some combination of ling-bane-muta, your Armani, Serral, Solar and before that Life, Soulkey, JD, HOTS soO, ect... Obviously he's not terrible at it, but I think it's a hefty task to expect him to break someone like Reynor if they go head to head in that mid-game.
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
Its just stupid to say recent result has NOTHING to do with the GOAT discussion, so the current result does not affect career achievement? And while Serral is falling off and his competitor are racking more titles, it has absolutely no effect on the debate? Where did you learn to do critical thinking? And its around 12 hours apart between the GSL and the DH Global Final end, doing shitty quick build not only saving the time but also mental stress to do a full 7-game which might go ultra late. I dont relaly give a crap if you are amused or not, but you cant deny its a screw up on the schedule between ESL and GSL.
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
Its just stupid to say recent result has NOTHING to do with the GOAT discussion, so the current result does not affect career achievement? And while Serral is falling off and his competitor are racking more titles, it has absolutely no effect on the debate? Where did you learn to do critical thinking? And its around 12 hours apart between the GSL and the DH Global Final end, doing shitty quick build not only saving the time but also mental stress to do a full 7-game which might go ultra late. I dont relaly give a crap if you are amused or not, but you cant deny its a screw up on the schedule between ESL and GSL.
I think it's more than just because someone talk about Maru, not every response need to be about Serral and replay the same argument we have had dozens and dozens of time for almost three year straight.
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
Its just stupid to say recent result has NOTHING to do with the GOAT discussion, so the current result does not affect career achievement? And while Serral is falling off and his competitor are racking more titles, it has absolutely no effect on the debate? Where did you learn to do critical thinking? And its around 12 hours apart between the GSL and the DH Global Final end, doing shitty quick build not only saving the time but also mental stress to do a full 7-game which might go ultra late. I dont relaly give a crap if you are amused or not, but you cant deny its a screw up on the schedule between ESL and GSL.
Do I even have to explain what this means? Recent results obviously add up to career achievements; however, considered in a vacuum, they give you a clear indication of form or could even suggest someone becoming Bonjwa-like and shouldn't be looked at if you are speaking of GOATs. In case of evenly matched players that have already amassed a certain amount of titles making them eligible for being called GOATS, recent results would make a difference but it could as well be very futile since the next three months of competitions could give you a different indication.
The idea of rushing a final in order of supposedly favoring a ro16(yes, DH Masters vs Code S but still...)doesn't seem very smart when said final is still worth thousand of dollars and that you have half a day(including a full night/morning of sleep ahead of you) to recover. The schedule is not a comfortable one but we have seen much worse(Byun vs Clem in WTL for example, that was indeed a forcibly rushed game)
On July 04 2021 23:19 sneakyfox wrote: Now imagine how that would have looked if Maru didn't proxy.
this, this bothers me so much that Maru is so good in a straight-up macro game and he still more than often risk himself by going proxy. It's just nonsense.
On July 04 2021 23:21 Poopi wrote: Crap I missed g1, how did INno lose to Maru
A bit of a bad proxy 2 rax reaper into a raven harras into a defense against INno push he had no right pulling of, worth re-watching it later later IMO.
On July 04 2021 23:21 Poopi wrote: Crap I missed g1, how did INno lose to Maru
A bit of a bad proxy 2 rax reaper into a raven harras into a defense against INno push he had no right pulling of, worth re-watching it later later IMO.
Ok thanks! Hoping for a Maru victory right before his GSL group
On July 04 2021 22:13 sneakyfox wrote: Heart: INnoVation Head: Reynor
I feel the same. Really would like for the finals not to be cross-server. But I don't really fancy either of the Terrans' chances against Reyner regardless whether it is cross-server or not.
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
Its just stupid to say recent result has NOTHING to do with the GOAT discussion, so the current result does not affect career achievement? And while Serral is falling off and his competitor are racking more titles, it has absolutely no effect on the debate? Where did you learn to do critical thinking? And its around 12 hours apart between the GSL and the DH Global Final end, doing shitty quick build not only saving the time but also mental stress to do a full 7-game which might go ultra late. I dont relaly give a crap if you are amused or not, but you cant deny its a screw up on the schedule between ESL and GSL.
Do I even have to explain what this means? Recent results obviously add up to career achievements; however, considered in a vacuum, they give you a clear indication of form or could even suggest someone becoming Bonjwa-like and shouldn't be looked at if you are speaking of GOATs. In case of evenly matched players that have already amassed a certain amount of titles making them eligible for being called GOATS, recent results would make a difference but it could as well be very futile since the next three months of competitions could give you a different indication.
The idea of rushing a final in order of supposedly favoring a ro16(yes, DH Masters vs Code S but still...)doesn't seem very smart when said final is still worth thousand of dollars and that you have half a day(including a full night/morning of sleep ahead of you) to recover. The schedule is not a comfortable one but we have seen much worse(Byun vs Clem in WTL for example, that was indeed a forcibly rushed game)
Why are we still talking about Serral being a GOAT? He is not a GOAT, he can never be the GREATEST OF ALL TIME. Serral was only relevant for half of LOTV, maybe he can be the greatest of LOTV but that's it
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
Its just stupid to say recent result has NOTHING to do with the GOAT discussion, so the current result does not affect career achievement? And while Serral is falling off and his competitor are racking more titles, it has absolutely no effect on the debate? Where did you learn to do critical thinking? And its around 12 hours apart between the GSL and the DH Global Final end, doing shitty quick build not only saving the time but also mental stress to do a full 7-game which might go ultra late. I dont relaly give a crap if you are amused or not, but you cant deny its a screw up on the schedule between ESL and GSL.
Do I even have to explain what this means? Recent results obviously add up to career achievements; however, considered in a vacuum, they give you a clear indication of form or could even suggest someone becoming Bonjwa-like and shouldn't be looked at if you are speaking of GOATs. In case of evenly matched players that have already amassed a certain amount of titles making them eligible for being called GOATS, recent results would make a difference but it could as well be very futile since the next three months of competitions could give you a different indication.
The idea of rushing a final in order of supposedly favoring a ro16(yes, DH Masters vs Code S but still...)doesn't seem very smart when said final is still worth thousand of dollars and that you have half a day(including a full night/morning of sleep ahead of you) to recover. The schedule is not a comfortable one but we have seen much worse(Byun vs Clem in WTL for example, that was indeed a forcibly rushed game)
Why are we still talking about Serral being a GOAT? He is not a GOAT, he can never be the GREATEST OF ALL TIME if he's only relevant for half of one expansion Maybe the greatest of LOTV but that's it
And why are you exactly asking this question to me?
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
Its just stupid to say recent result has NOTHING to do with the GOAT discussion, so the current result does not affect career achievement? And while Serral is falling off and his competitor are racking more titles, it has absolutely no effect on the debate? Where did you learn to do critical thinking? And its around 12 hours apart between the GSL and the DH Global Final end, doing shitty quick build not only saving the time but also mental stress to do a full 7-game which might go ultra late. I dont relaly give a crap if you are amused or not, but you cant deny its a screw up on the schedule between ESL and GSL.
Do I even have to explain what this means? Recent results obviously add up to career achievements; however, considered in a vacuum, they give you a clear indication of form or could even suggest someone becoming Bonjwa-like and shouldn't be looked at if you are speaking of GOATs. In case of evenly matched players that have already amassed a certain amount of titles making them eligible for being called GOATS, recent results would make a difference but it could as well be very futile since the next three months of competitions could give you a different indication.
The idea of rushing a final in order of supposedly favoring a ro16(yes, DH Masters vs Code S but still...)doesn't seem very smart when said final is still worth thousand of dollars and that you have half a day(including a full night/morning of sleep ahead of you) to recover. The schedule is not a comfortable one but we have seen much worse(Byun vs Clem in WTL for example, that was indeed a forcibly rushed game)
Why are we still talking about Serral being a GOAT? He is not a GOAT, he can never be the GREATEST OF ALL TIME. Serral was only relevant for half of LOTV Maybe the greatest of LOTV but that's it
He can't be LotV Goat if Rogue is tho
EDIT: Agree in general though. I'd say the Goat discussion in general is a bit silly in SC2 as there are many contenders and time periods to consider.
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
Its just stupid to say recent result has NOTHING to do with the GOAT discussion, so the current result does not affect career achievement? And while Serral is falling off and his competitor are racking more titles, it has absolutely no effect on the debate? Where did you learn to do critical thinking? And its around 12 hours apart between the GSL and the DH Global Final end, doing shitty quick build not only saving the time but also mental stress to do a full 7-game which might go ultra late. I dont relaly give a crap if you are amused or not, but you cant deny its a screw up on the schedule between ESL and GSL.
Do I even have to explain what this means? Recent results obviously add up to career achievements; however, considered in a vacuum, they give you a clear indication of form or could even suggest someone becoming Bonjwa-like and shouldn't be looked at if you are speaking of GOATs. In case of evenly matched players that have already amassed a certain amount of titles making them eligible for being called GOATS, recent results would make a difference but it could as well be very futile since the next three months of competitions could give you a different indication.
The idea of rushing a final in order of supposedly favoring a ro16(yes, DH Masters vs Code S but still...)doesn't seem very smart when said final is still worth thousand of dollars and that you have half a day(including a full night/morning of sleep ahead of you) to recover. The schedule is not a comfortable one but we have seen much worse(Byun vs Clem in WTL for example, that was indeed a forcibly rushed game)
Why are we still talking about Serral being a GOAT? He is not a GOAT, he can never be the GREATEST OF ALL TIME if he's only relevant for half of one expansion Maybe the greatest of LOTV but that's it
And why are you exactly asking this question to me?
I'm addressing this whole argument, stop talking about Serral in a tournament where he didn't even qualify to play in, this obsession is kinda annoying
Been following Inno since 2013 and there is one thing that he always neglect spell casters such as Raven and Ghost. That style fit HOTS and the beginning of LOTV very well, but not for the current meta. Maybe his control over a complex composition is just not good.
On July 04 2021 11:49 JJH777 wrote: It's weird that Maru hasn't won something yet this year. First year since 2017 where he hasn't won something in the first 6 months. This is his 5th time in a top 4. Hopefully this is the tournament that changes that.
Well, Serral hasnt won anything in 2021 neither, and his overall run has been even less impressive than Maru (no top 4 in any tournament so far other than SAHSC which is not an ESL tournament), but that doesnt stop EU fanboy keep calling him the GOAT. So I guess there is nothing wrong with Maru hasnt won a tournament so far, but winning one would certainly be great for him. Also, like I stated before, Maru gotta play in the GSL tomorrow, so I am not sure how much he is willing to stay till 5-6am to finish the Finals. It wont be shocking if we see proxy racks after 2-base all-in push gamble.
Serral's mention here was totally uncalled for and you are forgetting his second place at DH Last Chance.
GOAT claims, legitimate or not, have nothing to do with recents results anyway; they are related to career achievements.
Maru in 2021 is very consistent in any competition, something he has never been, and except for TvZ he looks like the strongest Terran in the world; he seems better than he was in 2020, wondering why he hasn't won anything this year despite being in good shape is appropriate.
Assuming Inno doesn't surprise us with sparks of his past glory, Maru is playing the finals anyway; the perspective of him rushing to save maybe an hour by playing risky is mildly amusing, he has to play in Code S the following evening.
Its just stupid to say recent result has NOTHING to do with the GOAT discussion, so the current result does not affect career achievement? And while Serral is falling off and his competitor are racking more titles, it has absolutely no effect on the debate? Where did you learn to do critical thinking? And its around 12 hours apart between the GSL and the DH Global Final end, doing shitty quick build not only saving the time but also mental stress to do a full 7-game which might go ultra late. I dont relaly give a crap if you are amused or not, but you cant deny its a screw up on the schedule between ESL and GSL.
Do I even have to explain what this means? Recent results obviously add up to career achievements; however, considered in a vacuum, they give you a clear indication of form or could even suggest someone becoming Bonjwa-like and shouldn't be looked at if you are speaking of GOATs. In case of evenly matched players that have already amassed a certain amount of titles making them eligible for being called GOATS, recent results would make a difference but it could as well be very futile since the next three months of competitions could give you a different indication.
The idea of rushing a final in order of supposedly favoring a ro16(yes, DH Masters vs Code S but still...)doesn't seem very smart when said final is still worth thousand of dollars and that you have half a day(including a full night/morning of sleep ahead of you) to recover. The schedule is not a comfortable one but we have seen much worse(Byun vs Clem in WTL for example, that was indeed a forcibly rushed game)
Why are we still talking about Serral being a GOAT? He is not a GOAT, he can never be the GREATEST OF ALL TIME if he's only relevant for half of one expansion Maybe the greatest of LOTV but that's it
And why are you exactly asking this question to me?
I'm addressing this whole argument, stop talking about Serral in a tournament where he didn't even qualify to play in, this obsession is kinda annoying
You are addressing it wrong, I wasn't the one speaking of Serral. This assumpion is kinda annoying as well.
Couldn't rogue have gotten back in it by just killing the third instead of trying to bust through and then taken his own third while preventing Reynor from expanding?
On July 05 2021 00:20 sneakyfox wrote: Couldn't rogue have gotten back in it by just killing the third instead of trying to bust through and then taken his own third while preventing Reynor from expanding?
That was probably his best option (I pretty sure he saw the bane behind the wall but if not that could explain his attempt to go force it). He would still have been behind tho
On July 05 2021 00:57 tigera6 wrote: Bane hit was the main difference, not sure why Rogue keep hitting the morphing Bane knowing his chance to take it down on time is slim.
People going to focus on the bane that hit the lings, but if Reynor didn't get two banes into the gold and take down ~8 drones, Rogue would have maintained a heavy economy lead the whole game and won regardless.
So after that, does someone know if gold base vs 12 pool if good for the defender? You sacrifice the hatch but you get a natural not quite later than the other guy with more drone, so maybe it's ok?
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
How many of his perfect BO7 record was against Zerg? Can't recall any.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
How many of his perfect BO7 record was against Zerg? Can't recall any.
Two as far as I remember: 4-2 against soO and 4-0 against DRG.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
How many of his perfect BO7 record was against Zerg? Can't recall any.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
How many of his perfect BO7 record was against Zerg? Can't recall any.
2017 Blizzcon against Soo, but thats the only one, I believe.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
I thought Reynor's weakest matchup is ZvT currently.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
How many of his perfect BO7 record was against Zerg? Can't recall any.
On July 05 2021 01:01 Nakajin wrote: So after that, does someone know if gold base vs 12 pool if good for the defender? You sacrifice the hatch but you get a natural not quite later than the other guy with more drone, so maybe it's ok?
Reynor called it a blind counter but honestly rogue looked in a MUCH better position shortly after. Because he has speed and controls map and takes WAY earlier third (and gold to boot)
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
I thought Reynor's weakest matchup is ZvT currently.
No only vs Clem who Reynor plays scared against for reasons I still do not understand.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
No idea what's the score is in aligulac but in his final lost against Trap, Reynor was playing extremely the first 5 maps, and what a throw on jaga, I feel like he can be a bit more shaky in zvt, Clem has his number and Maru should be the slight favorite imo
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
I thought Reynor's weakest matchup is ZvT currently.
No only vs Clem who Reynor plays scared against for reasons I still do not understand.
He's really strong against anyone else.
His games against Dream yesterday were bit sloppy in my opinion especially Game 1 where his armies got bludgeoned uncharacteristically. That weakness can hurt Reynor in final match with Maru if Reynor didn't figure out yet.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
I thought Reynor's weakest matchup is ZvT currently.
No only vs Clem who Reynor plays scared against for reasons I still do not understand.
He's really strong against anyone else.
His games against Dream yesterday were bit sloppy in my opinion especially Game 1 where his armies got bludgeoned uncharacteristically. That weakness can hurt Reynor in final match with Maru if Reynor didn't figure out yet.
Afraid I didn't see those games. Dream is really good in TvZ. That's HIS strongest match up from what I've seen of him, although I haven't seen nearly as much of Dream as I have of other Terrans.
I think this could be a really good series but Reynor is the one who is going to have to really show up. Otherwise, I could see this being a 4-2 or 4-1 for Maru.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
I thought Reynor's weakest matchup is ZvT currently.
No only vs Clem who Reynor plays scared against for reasons I still do not understand.
He's really strong against anyone else.
His games against Dream yesterday were bit sloppy in my opinion especially Game 1 where his armies got bludgeoned uncharacteristically. That weakness can hurt Reynor in final match with Maru if Reynor didn't figure out yet.
Afraid I didn't see those games. Dream is really good in TvZ. That's HIS strongest match up from what I've seen of him, although I haven't seen nearly as much of Dream as I have of other Terrans.
Dream's TvZ is his best MU, yes. That said, him losing to DRG doesn't qualify his TvZ as "really good" though.
On July 05 2021 00:47 swarminfestor wrote: Ping disadvantage doesn't seem a problem here. Maybe he just underestimated Reynor, then he didn't micro drones well in the 2nd game before.
Or it could be that Rogue isn't particularly good in ZvZ and Reynor absolutely is.
It's Rogue's weakest match up. Has been for some time. Reynor's weakest appears to be vs Protoss although he's better in that match up than Rogue is vs Zerg imo.
I thought Reynor's weakest matchup is ZvT currently.
No only vs Clem who Reynor plays scared against for reasons I still do not understand.
He's really strong against anyone else.
His games against Dream yesterday were bit sloppy in my opinion especially Game 1 where his armies got bludgeoned uncharacteristically. That weakness can hurt Reynor in final match with Maru if Reynor didn't figure out yet.
Afraid I didn't see those games. Dream is really good in TvZ. That's HIS strongest match up from what I've seen of him, although I haven't seen nearly as much of Dream as I have of other Terrans.
Dream's TvZ is his best MU, yes. That said, him losing to DRG doesn't qualify his TvZ as "really good" though.
On July 05 2021 01:01 Nakajin wrote: So after that, does someone know if gold base vs 12 pool if good for the defender? You sacrifice the hatch but you get a natural not quite later than the other guy with more drone, so maybe it's ok?
Reynor called it a blind counter but honestly rogue looked in a MUCH better position shortly after. Because he has speed and controls map and takes WAY earlier third (and gold to boot)
Ya may you should take your own gold instead of the natural as Reynor.
Dunno, it felt like he went away to kill Rogue gold but Rogue just took his natural instead and it was to late for Reynor to apply any pressure after that and Rogue natural was only slightly faster with worst tech and less drone and no real way to prevent Rogue from retaking his gold... Maybe if he had follwed it up with a bane bust Rogue was dead because if he retook the gold?
On July 05 2021 01:01 Nakajin wrote: So after that, does someone know if gold base vs 12 pool if good for the defender? You sacrifice the hatch but you get a natural not quite later than the other guy with more drone, so maybe it's ok?
Reynor called it a blind counter but honestly rogue looked in a MUCH better position shortly after. Because he has speed and controls map and takes WAY earlier third (and gold to boot)
Ya may you should take your own gold instead of the natural as Reynor.
Dunno, it felt like he went away to kill Rogue gold but Rogue just took his natural instead and it was to late for Reynor to apply any pressure after that and Rogue natural was only slightly faster with worst tech and less drone and no real way to prevent Rogue from retaking his gold... Maybe if he had follwed it up with a bane bust Rogue was dead because if he retook the gold?
Idk, where's Bly when you need him?
No way you can take the gold though considering how slow Reynor's speed was. Reynor barely held with queen walls at his own natural, no way he can hold both gold and natural.
I think Reynor was just significantly behind going into the early mid-game but managed to (1) kill a bunch of Rogue's lings with his bane; (2) killed a bunch of drones at Rogue's gold, and therefore (3) was able to stop Rogue's sort-of allin push and win the game.
On July 05 2021 01:01 Nakajin wrote: So after that, does someone know if gold base vs 12 pool if good for the defender? You sacrifice the hatch but you get a natural not quite later than the other guy with more drone, so maybe it's ok?
Reynor called it a blind counter but honestly rogue looked in a MUCH better position shortly after. Because he has speed and controls map and takes WAY earlier third (and gold to boot)
Ya may you should take your own gold instead of the natural as Reynor.
Dunno, it felt like he went away to kill Rogue gold but Rogue just took his natural instead and it was to late for Reynor to apply any pressure after that and Rogue natural was only slightly faster with worst tech and less drone and no real way to prevent Rogue from retaking his gold... Maybe if he had follwed it up with a bane bust Rogue was dead because if he retook the gold?
Idk, where's Bly when you need him?
No way you can take the gold though considering how slow Reynor's speed was. Reynor barely held with queen walls at his own natural, no way he can hold both gold and natural.
I think Reynor was just significantly behind going into the early mid-game but managed to (1) kill a bunch of Rogue's lings with his bane; (2) killed a bunch of drones at Rogue's gold, and therefore (3) was able to stop Rogue's sort-of allin push and win the game.
Hum yeah good point, IDK sacrificing a gold vs a twelve pool being good just dosen't seems right to me, but maybe it is.
On July 05 2021 01:23 AzAlexZ wrote: Maru 4-2 is my prediction also I guess this makes group B was the group of Death
Didn't need a Maru vs Reynor finals to know that
To be honest, Zest might have been the third best player here. Because he legit was playing very well against both Maru and Reynor (unlike Trap who sort of collapsed). Shame he had to get knocked out.
On July 05 2021 01:23 AzAlexZ wrote: Maru 4-2 is my prediction also I guess this makes group B was the group of Death
Didn't need a Maru vs Reynor finals to know that
To be honest, Zest might have been the third best player here. Because he legit was playing very well against both Maru and Reynor (unlike Trap who sort of collapsed). Shame he had to get knocked out.
Probe just didn't suit the Group of Death dilemma.
On July 05 2021 01:23 AzAlexZ wrote: Maru 4-2 is my prediction also I guess this makes group B was the group of Death
Didn't need a Maru vs Reynor finals to know that
To be honest, Zest might have been the third best player here. Because he legit was playing very well against both Maru and Reynor (unlike Trap who sort of collapsed). Shame he had to get knocked out.
This happens every tournament that involves seeds from the weaker regions. We end up with insanely lopsided groups. Zest just happened to be the victim of that this year. I'd say Zest would be a good favorite in any of the other groups other than the one he was in.
On July 05 2021 01:40 Vindicare605 wrote: It makes my little Terran heart so happy to see Hellion Banshee continue to get such good value in this match up. IMMvp's legacy lives on.
isn't Maru the original 'successor' to MarineKing and Mvp
How are both Rogue and Maru so sloppy against Reynor? This is almost unbelievable how Rogue just ran all his lings into banes and Maru with 0 reactions to any of Reynors attacks. Not much point in watching this with this level of play :/
On July 05 2021 01:48 MarianoSC2 wrote: How are both Rogue and Maru so sloppy against Reynor? This is almost unbelievable how Rogue just ran all his lings into banes and Maru with 0 reactions to any of Reynors attacks. Not much point in watching this with this level of play :/
On July 05 2021 01:48 MarianoSC2 wrote: How are both Rogue and Maru so sloppy against Reynor? This is almost unbelievable how Rogue just ran all his lings into banes and Maru with 0 reactions to any of Reynors attacks. Not much point in watching this with this level of play :/
He looks tired and sleepy, tbh I don't sense a good condition from Maru.
And yeah Maru's looked off reaction time wise, probably a combination of lag + maybe tired? I think it improved over time so he still has a shot in the finals probably
On July 05 2021 01:48 MarianoSC2 wrote: How are both Rogue and Maru so sloppy against Reynor? This is almost unbelievable how Rogue just ran all his lings into banes and Maru with 0 reactions to any of Reynors attacks. Not much point in watching this with this level of play :/
cross server = easier for zerg ? (in Maru's case)
Yeah thats for sure but still this looked like one player was 1000MMR lower than the other, thats just a big eh. And Rogue is the same race, and was super sloppy as well.
I know Koreans hate ping more but still would expect the top dogs to show us better games than this, they have the skill to do so.
On July 05 2021 01:51 Poopi wrote: And yeah Maru's looked off reaction time wise, probably a combination of lag + maybe tired? I think it improved over time so he still has a shot in the finals probably
I suppose the delay during rogue/reynor didn't help him. I don't like his bo either
On July 05 2021 01:51 Poopi wrote: And yeah Maru's looked off reaction time wise, probably a combination of lag + maybe tired? I think it improved over time so he still has a shot in the finals probably
Yes because Maru making mistakes could never happen in an offline match
The start of the game looked good, though, despite it being Zergannatha, he was up in supply at one point. Hopefully this game won't be indicative of the rest of the series.
On July 05 2021 01:48 MarianoSC2 wrote: How are both Rogue and Maru so sloppy against Reynor? This is almost unbelievable how Rogue just ran all his lings into banes and Maru with 0 reactions to any of Reynors attacks. Not much point in watching this with this level of play :/
I really think that games should be played at Korean hours, then cast via reply at ESL viewership hours, then we can see how Reynor and all the other Europeans fare with conditions the Koreans had for roughly the last 2 years
On July 05 2021 01:53 AzAlexZ wrote: I really think that ESL viewership hours, then we can see how Reynor and all the other Europeans fare with conditions the Koreans had for roughly the last 2 years
We simply need to wait for LAN (well offline matches) to come back
On July 05 2021 01:53 AzAlexZ wrote: I really think that ESL viewership hours, then we can see how Reynor and all the other Europeans fare with conditions the Koreans had for roughly the last 2 years
We simply need to wait for LAN (well offline matches) to come back
that still doesn't put the Europeans at a disadvantage, just levels the playing field
On July 05 2021 01:53 AzAlexZ wrote: I really think that games should be played at Korean hours, then cast via reply at ESL viewership hours, then we can see how Reynor and all the other Europeans fare with conditions the Koreans had for roughly the last 2 years
Problem is that no one gives a shit about replay casting. It will hurt viewership even more
Hopefully Season Finals + Last chance and Katowice will be offline ASAP
On July 05 2021 01:53 AzAlexZ wrote: I really think that games should be played at Korean hours, then cast via reply at ESL viewership hours, then we can see how Reynor and all the other Europeans fare with conditions the Koreans had for roughly the last 2 years
Problem is that no one gives a shit about replay casting. It will hurt viewership even more
Hopefully Season Finals + Last chance and Katowice will be offline ASAP
On July 05 2021 01:53 AzAlexZ wrote: I really think that games should be played at Korean hours, then cast via reply at ESL viewership hours, then we can see how Reynor and all the other Europeans fare with conditions the Koreans had for roughly the last 2 years
Problem is that no one gives a shit about replay casting. It will hurt viewership even more
Hopefully Season Finals + Last chance and Katowice will be offline ASAP
Honestly for me the unequal playing conditions hurt more. I think it worked OK when TSL used replays a bit. I would prefer it.
That said, we were "lucky" today that the semis were very quick. It's 2 am in Korea, which is not great of course, but at least it's not 5 am.
On July 05 2021 01:53 AzAlexZ wrote: I really think that games should be played at Korean hours, then cast via reply at ESL viewership hours, then we can see how Reynor and all the other Europeans fare with conditions the Koreans had for roughly the last 2 years
Problem is that no one gives a shit about replay casting. It will hurt viewership even more
Hopefully Season Finals + Last chance and Katowice will be offline ASAP
Honestly for me the unequal playing conditions hurt more. I think it worked OK when TSL used replays a bit. I would prefer it.
That said, we were "lucky" today that the semis were very quick. It's 2 am in Korea, which is not great of course, but at least it's not 5 am.
Maru was stabilizing until he attacked and got his 3rd deleted, such bad decision making here. He might have thought he was way behind that he actually was.
On July 05 2021 02:14 parksonsc wrote: Maru was stabilizing until he attacked and got his 3rd deleted, such bad decision making here. He might have thought he was way behind that he actually was.
It was a nice move by Reynor tbh, Maru totally missed the movement
Maru weirdly loading and then immediately losing a full medivac during his first counter on Reynor third was weird and I think cost him a lot of momentum. He was so far behind it probably didn't matter but could have prolonged the game if nothing else.
Does Reynor lose every game where he builds 100 workers? It seems especially weird on a map with so few bases. His composition also seems off--normally he at least goes into ultralisks as bad as they are.
On July 05 2021 02:46 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Does Reynor lose every game where he builds 100 workers? It seems especially weird on a map with so few bases. His composition also seems off--normally he at least goes into ultralisks as bad as they are.
Yeah, that was what I noticed in the games with Dream yesterday. I think Maru just happened to know Reynor's weakness in Game 2 and he will torture Reynor onwards rather than turtling like before.
On July 05 2021 03:03 swarminfestor wrote: Has Clem ever playing mech against Reynor before?
I don't think so. Clem plays very little mech. Arguably he doesn't need to play mech against Reynor though--his record with bio against him is so crushingly good.
I like how even though this is still a similar comp to the last game Maru is playing it completely different and the roles are reversed. Maru was playing ultra cost efficient with a lower eco than Reynor last game. This time Maru actually has a better eco and is being way more mobile and aggressive. It's very fun to see.
Edit: well it's been less fun over the last few minutes.
On July 05 2021 03:03 swarminfestor wrote: Has Clem ever playing mech against Reynor before?
I don't think so. Clem plays very little mech. Arguably he doesn't need to play mech against Reynor though--his record with bio against him is so crushingly good.
If your screen partner kept playing bio, you may feel unprepared for any unorthodox mech plays. I guess it was just Reynor's lack of experiences handling mech plays.
I've literally never seen a game from Maru on Beckett--it's not in GSL after all. Liquipedia says he's played only one professional TvP on it and no other tournament games.
On July 05 2021 03:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I've literally never seen a game from Maru on Beckett--it's not in GSL after all. Liquipedia says he's played only one professional TvP on it and no other tournament games.
On July 05 2021 03:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I've literally never seen a game from Maru on Beckett--it's not in GSL after all. Liquipedia says he's played only one professional TvP on it and no other tournament games.
On July 05 2021 03:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I've literally never seen a game from Maru on Beckett--it's not in GSL after all. Liquipedia says he's played only one professional TvP on it and no other tournament games.
On July 05 2021 03:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Yeah so far it looks like the early game went just a bit too badly for Maru to stabilize. But if he can stabilize it doesn't look too bad for him.
uhhhh ???????????????? he's very stable in terms of the gamestate?
I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
I thought Serral was the reincarnation of Life
Does anyone actually say that? Their styles are so different.
Pretty good finals by the players. Would have really preferred demuslim/rotti or rotti/tod to cast the finals as zg/wardi have an overall negative tonality the majority of the time when they commentate on the mic.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
I thought Serral was the reincarnation of Life
Does anyone actually say that? Their styles are so different.
must be me then, I thought people equated Serral to Life, I could very well be mistaken
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
I thought Serral was the reincarnation of Life
Trolling aside, Serral is in the pure tradition of the foreigner zerg : he is very reactive, super standart without any crazy stuff, basically the improved version of Stephano.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
I thought Serral was the reincarnation of Life
I didn't think Serral as Life. Their gameplays are completely different.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
I thought Serral was the reincarnation of Life
Trolling aside, Serral is in the pure tradition of the foreigner zerg : he is very reactive, super standart without any crazy stuff, basically the improved version of Stephano.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
I thought Serral was the reincarnation of Life
I didn't think Serral as Life. Their gameplays are completely different.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
I thought Serral was the reincarnation of Life
Trolling aside, Serral is in the pure tradition of the foreigner zerg : he is very reactive, super standart without any crazy stuff, basically the improved version of Stephano.
He's not that similar to Stephano either. Stephano went for a bunch of pro-active stuff like the roach max, or incredibly abusive swarmhost stuff later (though he wasn't at his peak by then).
I honestly thought Maru would have gone with his typical Bio Turtle style in the last game, Reynor has caught on quickly with the Mech style in the 2000 Atmosphere game, Reynor actually traded really well but he just couldnt keep the base alive long enough.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
I thought Serral was the reincarnation of Life
Does anyone actually say that? Their styles are so different.
must be me then, I thought people equated Serral to Life, I could very well be mistaken
So Maru gifted 3 games to Reynor for free and even threw the last game by moving out with his tanks army. That is simply too many mistakes at this level and if it wasn't Maru playing that would have been a 4:1 or 4:0.
The last game I had no idea why Maru just didn't continue to deny the 2 bases and turtle with his tank army. He was probably 2x base denials and 2 fights away from choking Reynor to submission. It made 0 sense to move out really...
On July 05 2021 04:09 Xain0n wrote: A great series, Maru looked off in the first two games but his mech play was incredibly scary. Well done, Riccardo!
Maru Mech is so much more crazy than a typical one because he is so greedy with it, taking base non-stop like a Bio instead of going for the slowly expand but higher efficiency approach. The only reason he was able to win game 5 was because he was taking and holding more base than Reynor, while the overall trade wasnt that efficient for Maru. But he need to get a better army composition than what he had in game 7, maybe less Tanks and more Thors, or even transition into Sky Terran. The tanks were pretty much useless after Reynor hit the Viper tech and get caught with their pants down all the time.
On July 05 2021 04:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: So Maru gifted 3 games to Reynor for free and even threw the last game by moving out with his tanks army. That is simply too many mistakes at this level and if it wasn't Maru playing that would have been a 4:1 or 4:0.
The last game I had no idea why Maru just didn't continue to deny the 2 bases and turtle with his tank army. He was probably 2x base denials and 2 fights away from choking Reynor to submission. It made 0 sense to move out really...
On July 05 2021 04:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: So Maru gifted 3 games to Reynor for free and even threw the last game by moving out with his tanks army. That is simply too many mistakes at this level and if it wasn't Maru playing that would have been a 4:1 or 4:0.
The last game I had no idea why Maru just didn't continue to deny the 2 bases and turtle with his tank army. He was probably 2x base denials and 2 fights away from choking Reynor to submission. It made 0 sense to move out really...
Man, Maru is literally my favorite player and I can't even...
On July 05 2021 04:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: So Maru gifted 3 games to Reynor for free and even threw the last game by moving out with his tanks army. That is simply too many mistakes at this level and if it wasn't Maru playing that would have been a 4:1 or 4:0.
The last game I had no idea why Maru just didn't continue to deny the 2 bases and turtle with his tank army. He was probably 2x base denials and 2 fights away from choking Reynor to submission. It made 0 sense to move out really...
LMAO Why do you have to be salty? Why can't you just be happy for Reynor holy shit man no one is whining apart from you man.
On July 05 2021 04:06 JoeCool wrote: This year is definitely between Trap and Reynor. Both players are absolutely amazing to watch.
Trap has won more tournaments, but Reynor has won the 'bigger ones'. Definitely a good race between the two, Maru behind them though with 2 runner-ups though
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
So that makes Clem Taeja.
They're both super-fast, but I think TaeJa had better late-game control in his prime - especially against protoss.
Grats to Reynor though - back to back finals that went the distance against Korea's best Terran and Protoss players (not to mention taking out Cure, Dream, Dark and Rogue on the way to said finals). He's got a very strong argument for best in the world at the moment.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
So that makes Clem Taeja.
They're both super-fast, but I think TaeJa had better late-game control in his prime - especially against protoss.
Grats to Reynor though - back to back finals that went the distance against Korea's best Terran and Protoss players (not to mention taking out Cure, Dream, Dark and Rogue on the way to said finals). He's got a very strong argument for best in the world at the moment.
I agree that he does. He just needs to do what Serral never would and win a Code S. The vaccine is becoming more available the world is opening up. All Reynor needs to do to seal that number 1 uncontested title is travel to the region and play in their tournaments, where all of his ACTUAL challenge is coming from.
I want to see him do it, I legitimately hope he does it.
On July 05 2021 04:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: So Maru gifted 3 games to Reynor for free and even threw the last game by moving out with his tanks army. That is simply too many mistakes at this level and if it wasn't Maru playing that would have been a 4:1 or 4:0.
The last game I had no idea why Maru just didn't continue to deny the 2 bases and turtle with his tank army. He was probably 2x base denials and 2 fights away from choking Reynor to submission. It made 0 sense to move out really...
Lmao
Yeah, if Maru wins, then that proves he is the better player. If [non-Korean player] wins, then the win doesn‘t count because
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
So that makes Clem Taeja.
They're both super-fast, but I think TaeJa had better late-game control in his prime - especially against protoss.
Grats to Reynor though - back to back finals that went the distance against Korea's best Terran and Protoss players (not to mention taking out Cure, Dream, Dark and Rogue on the way to said finals). He's got a very strong argument for best in the world at the moment.
LMAO we don't call a player the best in the world for winning +200-ping online tournaments (especially for those who play the race that is least affected by ping - you know which race is it), especially when your best opponents are playing tired and sleepy. Therefore, we will call Dark, Maru or Rogue the best player in the world if one of them wins this GSL.
On July 05 2021 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: I just imagine Reynor as a reincarnation of Life, His lings micro/macro were just on point, perhaps the best since Life. Credited to his handling of lings, most of the games went to his favors. The problem was just his mid-games which looked vulnerable.
So that makes Clem Taeja.
They're both super-fast, but I think TaeJa had better late-game control in his prime - especially against protoss.
Grats to Reynor though - back to back finals that went the distance against Korea's best Terran and Protoss players (not to mention taking out Cure, Dream, Dark and Rogue on the way to said finals). He's got a very strong argument for best in the world at the moment.
LMAO we don't call a player the best in the world for winning +200-ping online tournaments (especially for those who play the race that is least affected by ping - you know which race is it), especially when your best opponents are playing tired and sleepy. Therefore, we will call Dark, Maru or Rogue the best player in the world if one of them wins this GSL.
In war3, Happy was playing with 180 ping vs 30 on netease tournaments and still people were arguing it was more difficult to play against an opponent with ping haha. I guess foreigners never wins, Koreans throws or doesn't care ect. Same goes for the it is easier for z to play with ping narrative : _ when a T misses a split, that's cuz of ping but when a zerg lost 10 bane to a wm, no one cares. _ when a T fails to lift a depot against a run by, that's once again ping who hinders his reaction time but when a zerg misses a defense like a evo block, no one cares, same goes for the wm drop. I guess that's the standart for a community who worships a +35 yo father of +3 children who is still at the point of insulting ppl just for playing a different race than his.
On July 05 2021 03:53 Lazzarus wrote: MarianoSC in shambles
On July 05 2021 04:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: So Maru gifted 3 games to Reynor for free and even threw the last game by moving out with his tanks army. That is simply too many mistakes at this level and if it wasn't Maru playing that would have been a 4:1 or 4:0.
The last game I had no idea why Maru just didn't continue to deny the 2 bases and turtle with his tank army. He was probably 2x base denials and 2 fights away from choking Reynor to submission. It made 0 sense to move out really...
Beautiful :D
Awesome finals, Well played Reynor, gg Maru I really hope we get a offline Bo7 between those two any time soon
EPT
ESL Pro Tour/2021/22/Masters/Summer
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1850.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/3374.jpg)
Maru vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4571.jpg)
Scarlett![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6454.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1099.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2241.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6252.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://tl.net/tlpd/images/players/noimage.jpg)
TBA vs 
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5T5VBYWUAYXlgb?format=jpg&name=large)
. Nice !
