EPT[DHM 2021] Summer: Season Finals - Group Stage - Page 10
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
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stilt
France2754 Posts
Well the latter can be pretty inconsistent but that's quite a upset nonetheless. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On July 02 2021 22:34 Wardi wrote: Im not saying its all good - im just sick of people saying its unplayable / unwinnable when that is clearly not the case. ESL has commitments to viewership and the time zone they pick has to cover multiple continents and aim for viewership. Theres never going to be an ideal. Same for ping - its always the Koreans that are affected by ping in the eyes of people posting here, yet the EU players play with the same / worse ping as the west server is the server that gets played more as far as im aware. My point was that this dumb complaining doesnt go anywhere and it just makes it unfun to read these threads. Were not living in a perfect world right now and we just have to deal with some of it. People saying no tournaments ever cater to Korean players, we just had NEXT which favoured Korean prime time playing times etc. People assuming ESL just don’t care, but thats just so untrue, there are clearly reasons for it being organized the way it is. Just frustrated we can’t enjoy the games because everyone sees some unfair advantage everywhere and that overrules anybody else playing well or having a good day I feel like again you are neglecting that there fundamentally is a problem. "ESL has commitment to viewerships" - ok, fair enough, but shouldn't they also have a commitment to ensure equal playing conditions for the participants? I agree that there is no ideal solution but that doesn't mean there isn't a better solution under the circumstances. In particular I have trouble understanding why it was acceptable regarding viewership to start the previous three events (Katewice, Last Chance, DHM Winter) at 3 pm, but now it cannot start before 4 pm? ESL has decided to make it one hour worse for East Asian-based players (not just the Koreans, we're talking about 10/16 players in this tournament). I don't know what that tells you but to me it does not seem like taking the time zone issue seriously. So when you write that "there are clearly reasons for it being organized the way it is" I have to say that those reasons are poorly communicated. ESL taking the whole thing seriously, if that is indeed the case, is also poorly communicated. Did a miss a statement from ESL? And then you write that this complaining is "dumb" and that it is the complaining that ruins the viewing experience. I do agree that it can get out of hand and then itself become a problem, but I think you have to start by acknowledging that having unequal playing conditions is a problem in a professional sport! If you want people to stop pointing that out again and again you (ESL) need to begin by acknowledging that. It seems all we get is someone dropping in once in a while to say "that's just the way it is" and "stop complaining", or even saying that people's comments are worse that the time zone problem itself. ESL could perhaps learn a thing or two from the TSL organisers. Here's their statement: + Show Spoiler + Time zones are always a tricky thing to navigate for online tournaments that span multiple continents, and I hate that we have to choose between remotely playable times for Korea and viewership in the Americas- and let’s be honest here, it’s not reasonable to ask a player to play multiple Bo7s starting at 2 AM. This is something we’ll have to continue looking into for the best possible options, but in my mind it boils down to a handful of options: Do what we did this time, and risk missing out on significant English-language viewership from the Americas (and risk unreasonable times for some of our players) Cast some/potentially many games off replays, to align with audiences (and risk viewers and fans being frustrated at it not being live) Have a live event (this increases our event costs by a LOT) I think each of these solutions has a time and place where they make sense. It’s something for us to think about moving forward. Reading that I was happy to see that the problem is taken seriously, and that the organisers are trying to think of solutions. I for one do not have that impression from ESL. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
On July 02 2021 23:39 sneakyfox wrote: Reading that I was happy to see that the problem is taken seriously, and that the organizers are trying to think of solutions. I for one do not have that impression from ESL. Just look at how ESL handles CS:GO and you'll know exactly what their stance is. Revenue and money comes before the players. It's nice having a monopoly in the e-sports scene. Unfortunately the SC2 community just sucks it up. | ||
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JJH777
United States4415 Posts
On July 02 2021 17:03 Wardi wrote: Trap just won TSL7 in the same / worse conditions (went even later into the night) so while I don’t disagree the time zone has an affect we should maybe realize it does ‘t just make them auto lose. Then we are complaining about ping when half of maps are favoured for the koreans with ping and other half favour eu with a difference of 30-40, also doesn’t make sense. Have a source on the ping? I live in California and if I ping western Europe and Korea from my connection it's basically equal. Logically that means if an EU player and a KR player are playing on the LA server it should be basically equal. Meanwhile based on 3rd party websites like wondernetwork ping to east coast is only like 100 for EU and 200 for KR. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On July 02 2021 23:49 JJH777 wrote: Have a source on the ping? I live in California and if I ping western Europe and Korea from my connection it's basically equal. Logically that means if an EU player and a KR player are playing on the LA server it should be basically equal. Meanwhile based on 3rd party websites like wondernetwork ping to east coast is only like 100 for EU and 200 for KR. We have heard those ping numbers several times from players and casters alike. They say NA West is slightly Korea-favoured, and NA Central slightly EU favoured. It's all in the 150-200 range iirc. | ||
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Legan
Finland501 Posts
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JJH777
United States4415 Posts
On July 02 2021 23:55 sneakyfox wrote: We have heard those ping numbers several times from players and casters alike. They say NA West is slightly Korea-favoured, and NA Central slightly EU favoured. It's all in the 150-200 range iirc. I wish some player would just release actual exact numbers. I just don't see how it's possible players in France/Germany/Italy are having 150+ ping to Chicago and 200+ to LA when everything I can find online and my own personal pinging says that should be 100ish and 140ish respectively for this servers. Especially when the sources I'm finding from KR to US are agree with your numbers but apparently the EU to US ones don't. Feels like TOs just don't want to acknowledge it actually would be more fair for Western EU countries vs Korea to be on NA West | ||
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pzlama333
United States281 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45110 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
lol I stand corrected | ||
Poopi
France12906 Posts
On July 03 2021 00:25 [PkF] Wire wrote: INno and Rogue both defying expectations  it's impressive how many upsets there has been just in the group stage already | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
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stilt
France2754 Posts
TIME has a rough 2020 year but he seems back in shape, he did good in TSL. On July 03 2021 00:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: has any series today not been an upset ? Inno vs Special's result seems normal to me. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On July 03 2021 00:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: has any series today not been an upset ? Gabe vs Clem wasn't since Gabe was on a 2 series winning streak against Clem | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
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tigera6
3443 Posts
On July 03 2021 00:28 stilt wrote: TIME has a rough 2020 year but he seems back in shape, he did good in TSL. Time is like a "gatekeeper" similar to HM in EU. He beat a lot of good players, but will lose against top tier guys. Btw, we gonna have 3 Terran coming out in 1st place of the groups, and potentially 4. Terran now cant balance-whine any longer. | ||
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